Corona-Triggers in MD Employment Contracts

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drusso

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I'm hearing reports of Admin including various "corona-triggers"--ie "in the event of a national or state emergency RVU conversations shall be suspended or reduced **%." Is anyone else seeing this in their jurisdictions? What is a good counteroffer or symmetrical offset for these kinds of stipulations?

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I'm hearing reports of Admin including various "corona-triggers"--ie "in the event of a national or state emergency RVU conversations shall be suspended or reduced **%." Is anyone else seeing this in their jurisdictions? What is a good counteroffer or symmetrical offset for these kinds of stipulations?

why do you care? you are in PP. this crusade you are on is not a healthy one.
 
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It's his MPH, gotta stick his nose in everything health policy. /s

In all fairness, I appreciate knowing the trends in the medical community outside my bubble.
 
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why do you care? you are in PP. this crusade you are on is not a healthy one.

What do you think of this counter-offer to Admin:

"In the event this clause is triggered, hospital agrees to provide at its expense an independent audit to assure that the following conditions are met:

1. Administrative staff salaries have been cut, on a percentage basis, by at least twice the amount as any physician.

2. The hospital (or its parent corporation) experienced a loss on operations, or, if budgeted for a loss, the actual loss exceeded the year's previously approved budget.

3. The hospital is not the beneficiary of any endowment or other external funding which was used to compensate it for any losses sustained due to the event.

4. The hospital will not require any additional shifts or will provide bonuses of XXX for each additional shift physician agrees to work IN ADDITION TO any RVU payments.

5. If the hospital invokes this clause, the non-compete clause and any 'gag' clauses will become immediately null and void.

6. The hospital cannot 'terminate for cause' if a physician refuses to any changes to terms based on this clause."
 
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I actually love that counter offer. If docs get a pay cut then admin better be getting a pay cut as well.
 
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What do you think of this counter-offer to Admin:

"In the event this clause is triggered, hospital agrees to provide at its expense an independent audit to assure that the following conditions are met:

1. Administrative staff salaries have been cut, on a percentage basis, by at least twice the amount as any physician.

2. The hospital (or its parent corporation) experienced a loss on operations, or, if budgeted for a loss, the actual loss exceeded the year's previously approved budget.

3. The hospital is not the beneficiary of any endowment or other external funding which was used to compensate it for any losses sustained due to the event.

4. The hospital will not require any additional shifts or will provide bonuses of XXX for each additional shift physician agrees to work IN ADDITION TO any RVU payments.

5. If the hospital invokes this clause, the non-compete clause and any 'gag' clauses will become immediately null and void.

6. The hospital cannot 'terminate for cause' if a physician refuses to any changes to terms based on this clause."
I like most of it, #1 would be a better PR sell if it just said “equal to” as well as any bonuses cancelled
 
i wonder if physician salary gets cut, is this a breach of contract. Does this allow you to get out of the contract?
 
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play the game. Take the pay cut and when the dust settles demand ur compensation to be made up by end of contract year or it is breach of contract and then go elsewhere
 
I'm hearing reports of Admin including various "corona-triggers"--ie "in the event of a national or state emergency RVU conversations shall be suspended or reduced **%." Is anyone else seeing this in their jurisdictions? What is a good counteroffer or symmetrical offset for these kinds of stipulations?

reference please? i think you are just rabble rousing and purposely causing a panic. please post where you heard "reports of admin chancing RVUs".

my guess is that you will say a friend told you.

we are getting to the point of trolling here. from now on when you post this crap, unless there is a legitimate source with a legitimate medical tie-in, these posts may have to be reported. nobody wants to hear 1,000 posts about how hospitals are the devil. 1 or 2 will suffice
 
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reference please? i think you are just rabble rousing and purposely causing a panic. please post where you heard "reports of admin chancing RVUs".

my guess is that you will say a friend told you.

we are getting to the point of trolling here. from now on when you post this crap, unless there is a legitimate source with a legitimate medical tie-in, these posts may have to be reported. nobody wants to hear 1,000 posts about how hospitals are the devil. 1 or 2 will suffice

How can you be so blind to what's going on around you??


Massachusetts-based Atrius Health, for instance, placed many staffers on a 1-month furlough, while simultaneously withholding a percentage of working physicians' paychecks, saying that they plan to pay them back at a later date.



In a follow-up memo sent to salaried physicians on Tuesday night, Alteon said it would convert them to an hourly rate, implying that they would start earning less money since the company had already said it would reduce their hours. The memo asked employees to accept the change or else contact the human resources department within five days “to discuss alternatives,” without saying what those might be. The memo said Alteon was trying to avoid laying anyone off.


The pay cuts were revealed to staff in an email that included a link to a video posted by Intermountain Healthcare on YouTube. In the video, Dr. Mark Briesacher, the chief physician executive at Intermountain Healthcare, said: "This is a critical time for physicians to be flexible to the changing needs created by COVID-19."


In an email sent to employees and obtained by 2 On Your Side, Dr. Curtis said all doctors and staff will have a 10% reduction to their base salaries.
 
Yeah I'm salaried. Currently on a 2 year contract with a guarantee base. They are discussing what to do with those of us with a guarantee base. I wouldn't be surprised if it's dropped as early as next week. Anyone else in this situation? And what are one's options if they do this? I mean they're breaching the contract right??
 
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Yeah I'm salaried. Currently on a 2 year contract with a guarantee base of 400k. They are discussing what to do with those of us with a guarantee base. I wouldn't be surprised if it's dropped as early as next week. Anyone else in this situation? And what are one's options if they do this? I mean they're breaching the contract right??
Quit or sue
 
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Yeah I'm salaried. Currently on a 2 year contract with a guarantee base of 400k. They are discussing what to do with those of us with a guarantee base. I wouldn't be surprised if it's dropped as early as next week. Anyone else in this situation? And what are one's options if they do this? I mean they're breaching the contract right??

I'm concerned that your situation is just the canary in the coal mine.
 
How can you be so blind to what's going on around you??


Massachusetts-based Atrius Health, for instance, placed many staffers on a 1-month furlough, while simultaneously withholding a percentage of working physicians' paychecks, saying that they plan to pay them back at a later date.


In a follow-up memo sent to salaried physicians on Tuesday night, Alteon said it would convert them to an hourly rate, implying that they would start earning less money since the company had already said it would reduce their hours. The memo asked employees to accept the change or else contact the human resources department within five days “to discuss alternatives,” without saying what those might be. The memo said Alteon was trying to avoid laying anyone off.


The pay cuts were revealed to staff in an email that included a link to a video posted by Intermountain Healthcare on YouTube. In the video, Dr. Mark Briesacher, the chief physician executive at Intermountain Healthcare, said: "This is a critical time for physicians to be flexible to the changing needs created by COVID-19."


In an email sent to employees and obtained by 2 On Your Side, Dr. Curtis said all doctors and staff will have a 10% reduction to their base salaries.

im not blind to the fact that basically all of medicine is taking a hit right now.

your missionary-like motivation is clear: though your endless posts about this, some physician's may finally see the light, leave the hospital and open up their own private practice pain utopia.

i imagine some docs working for hospitals wont get a bonus this year. i also imagine many PP docs will either completely shut their doors, or take an even bigger hit. huge organizations have the capability to go in the red longer and deeper than the private guy. Also, there is a much bigger chance that the hospitals will get bailed out. you cant have mega-university X hospital in the middle of the city close its doors. just wont happen.

ill pose this to the board: who would you rather be: private practice guy who may have to lay off staff, and not take a paycheck for a few months, or hospital guy who wont get a bonus this year, but should be back to normal next year? i dont think this scenario is a false choice.
 
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Yeah I'm salaried. Currently on a 2 year contract with a guarantee base of 400k. They are discussing what to do with those of us with a guarantee base. I wouldn't be surprised if it's dropped as early as next week. Anyone else in this situation? And what are one's options if they do this? I mean they're breaching the contract right??

Yes that’s a breach of contract. Don’t sign anything until you have an employment lawyer review. If they breach then you aren’t bound by any other terms (noncompete).

Search “Fogelman” on the PPP Facebook group for a very informative video. Go to 7:50.


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Bonus is a misnomer. A bonus by the legal definition is an arbitrary number determined by employer to reward the employee.

What most physicians have is actually a commission. There is a set formula to determine the additional incentive compensation. This is part of your contract and if taken away would also likely be considered a breach.


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ill pose this to the board: who would you rather be: private practice guy who may have to lay off staff, and not take a paycheck for a few months, or hospital guy who wont get a bonus this year, but should be back to normal next year? i dont think this scenario is a false choice.

The real choice is, of course, is your integrity worth so little that you'll cower in fear instead of go on your own?

Viewpoint
No Metric Bonus is Worth Your Soul
Mosley, Mark MD

Emergency Medicine News: April 2020 - Volume 42 - Issue 4 - p 3-4
doi: 10.1097/01.EEM.0000660500.38396.0e
Metrics
Figure. metrics

Modern science-based medicine in America has been a profession with a moral ideology—altruism instead of advertising, science rather than selling, patients ahead of profit. Osler, Halsted, Mayo, DeBakey, and others created the profession of an American physician who was called to heal, a virtue that was highly valued.

There is a crisis in American medicine, a cultural shift in which the moral foundation is being restructured with market-based materials. An elite class of philanthropic professionals with unique and highly specialized skills are being replaced by a less expensive, amorphous group of “providers” employed by corporations to implement protocols to obtain better metrics and attract more health care “consumers.” Employed providers are financially incentivized to obtain better metrics, further eroding medicine's altruistic base. The suits used to nod to the white coats, at least on patient care. Today, the suits develop ways to make the white coats bow. This is the dirty little secret—everyone is paying hush money.

Greed is not new to medicine or physicians; every historical medical oath cautioned against it. But we have never had a systematic shift in the way medicine is developed and practiced, in which research, journals, guidelines, colleges of medicine, government agencies, and protocols put in place in hospitals are all implicitly designed and executed to satisfy industry interests and maximize profits. Even nonprofits look like for-profit medical entities.

These market-friendly forces do not simply co-exist neutrally alongside evidenced-based medicine; they increasingly change providers' behavior even when good science has proven the approach does more harm than good. No one endorses the vulgarity of harming patients for profit, but this is exactly what is happening, even if that is not the intention. And providers who use these profit-based protocols better are paid more.

Some physicians have acquiesced to this view or even embraced it by saying medicine is a business. No one would disagree that medicine must attend seriously to issues of financial responsibility. Like marriage, childrearing, a place of worship, or education, managing money is essential, but that is different from saying marriage is a business or religion is a business. The same goes for saying medicine is a business. The primary goal of a business is to increase profit. This is not the primary goal of marriage, religion, education, or medicine. These have aimed at a higher moral value, at least historically.

There are limits on what power we can have over the health insurance industry, the pharmaceutical business, medical device companies, corporate hospital systems, and even physician groups. We shake our heads when previously trusted entities like the American Heart Association, the National Institutes of Health, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are tainted with significant conflicts of interest with a market-based industry. We seem paralyzed by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which is predominantly a non-physician entity that repeatedly creates financial rules unsupported by good science and is even disavowed by reputable medical groups. STEMI, stroke, and sepsis protocols have become automatons that maximize profits for hospitals while patients are the collateral damage.

And then our jaws drop open when one of the bastions of doing the right science for patients (e.g., the Cochrane Collaboration) collapses under the weight of becoming more market-friendly.

This sacred profession has fallen asleep, having bitten the apple of corporate business. What are we to do? We can no longer remain silent and shrug our shoulders. We can no longer accept hush money. We must refuse the market-driven protocol that is not scientifically supported to benefit patients. We must find the courage to speak. It is our profession that is at stake. It is our duty, our calling to put patients first. There is no metric bonus worth your soul.

Dr. Mosley
is an emergency physician in Wichita, KS.
 
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The real choice is, of course, is your integrity worth so little that you'll cower in fear instead of go on your own?

Viewpoint
No Metric Bonus is Worth Your Soul
Mosley, Mark MD

Emergency Medicine News: April 2020 - Volume 42 - Issue 4 - p 3-4
doi: 10.1097/01.EEM.0000660500.38396.0e
Metrics
Figure. metrics

Modern science-based medicine in America has been a profession with a moral ideology—altruism instead of advertising, science rather than selling, patients ahead of profit. Osler, Halsted, Mayo, DeBakey, and others created the profession of an American physician who was called to heal, a virtue that was highly valued.

There is a crisis in American medicine, a cultural shift in which the moral foundation is being restructured with market-based materials. An elite class of philanthropic professionals with unique and highly specialized skills are being replaced by a less expensive, amorphous group of “providers” employed by corporations to implement protocols to obtain better metrics and attract more health care “consumers.” Employed providers are financially incentivized to obtain better metrics, further eroding medicine's altruistic base. The suits used to nod to the white coats, at least on patient care. Today, the suits develop ways to make the white coats bow. This is the dirty little secret—everyone is paying hush money.

Greed is not new to medicine or physicians; every historical medical oath cautioned against it. But we have never had a systematic shift in the way medicine is developed and practiced, in which research, journals, guidelines, colleges of medicine, government agencies, and protocols put in place in hospitals are all implicitly designed and executed to satisfy industry interests and maximize profits. Even nonprofits look like for-profit medical entities.

These market-friendly forces do not simply co-exist neutrally alongside evidenced-based medicine; they increasingly change providers' behavior even when good science has proven the approach does more harm than good. No one endorses the vulgarity of harming patients for profit, but this is exactly what is happening, even if that is not the intention. And providers who use these profit-based protocols better are paid more.

Some physicians have acquiesced to this view or even embraced it by saying medicine is a business. No one would disagree that medicine must attend seriously to issues of financial responsibility. Like marriage, childrearing, a place of worship, or education, managing money is essential, but that is different from saying marriage is a business or religion is a business. The same goes for saying medicine is a business. The primary goal of a business is to increase profit. This is not the primary goal of marriage, religion, education, or medicine. These have aimed at a higher moral value, at least historically.

There are limits on what power we can have over the health insurance industry, the pharmaceutical business, medical device companies, corporate hospital systems, and even physician groups. We shake our heads when previously trusted entities like the American Heart Association, the National Institutes of Health, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention are tainted with significant conflicts of interest with a market-based industry. We seem paralyzed by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which is predominantly a non-physician entity that repeatedly creates financial rules unsupported by good science and is even disavowed by reputable medical groups. STEMI, stroke, and sepsis protocols have become automatons that maximize profits for hospitals while patients are the collateral damage.

And then our jaws drop open when one of the bastions of doing the right science for patients (e.g., the Cochrane Collaboration) collapses under the weight of becoming more market-friendly.

This sacred profession has fallen asleep, having bitten the apple of corporate business. What are we to do? We can no longer remain silent and shrug our shoulders. We can no longer accept hush money. We must refuse the market-driven protocol that is not scientifically supported to benefit patients. We must find the courage to speak. It is our profession that is at stake. It is our duty, our calling to put patients first. There is no metric bonus worth your soul.

Dr. Mosley
is an emergency physician in Wichita, KS.

Im sure you feel chock full of integrity when you charge some poor ignorant patient 1000 bucks a pop for your snake oil stem cells.

The difference is that i can see the value of a private practice. I believe one can practice with integrity at either. You are blinded by your unilateral views
 
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Im sure you feel chock full of integrity when you charge some poor ignorant patient 1000 bucks a pop for your snake oil stem cells.

The difference is that i can see the value of a private practice. I believe one can practice with integrity at either. You are blinded by your unilateral views

Why would you start with BMAC when PRP has been shown to be non-inferior?


Orthop J Sports Med. 2020 Feb 18;8(2):2325967119900958. doi: 10.1177/2325967119900958. eCollection 2020 Feb.
Bone Marrow Aspirate Concentrate Is Equivalent to Platelet-Rich Plasma for the Treatment of Knee Osteoarthritis at 1 Year: A Prospective, Randomized Trial.
Anz AW1, Hubbard R1, Rendos NK1, Everts PA2, Andrews JR1, Hackel JG1.
Author information

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Approximately 47 million people in the United States have been diagnosed with arthritis. Autologous platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injections have been documented to alleviate symptoms related to knee osteoarthritis (OA) in randomized controlled trials, systematic reviews, and meta-analyses. Autologous bone marrow aspirate concentrate (BMC) injections have also emerged as a treatment option for knee OA, with a limited clinical evidence base.
PURPOSE:
To compare the efficacy of BMC to PRP for the treatment of knee OA regarding pain and function at multiple time points up to 12 months after an injection. We hypothesized that BMC will be more effective in improving outcomes in patients with knee OA.
STUDY DESIGN:
Randomized controlled trial; Level of evidence, 2.
METHODS:
A total of 90 participants aged between 18 and 80 years with symptomatic knee OA (Kellgren-Lawrence grades 1-3) were randomized into 2 study groups: PRP and BMC. Both groups completed the Western Ontario and McMaster Universities Osteoarthritis Index (WOMAC) and subjective International Knee Documentation Committee (IKDC) questionnaires before and 1, 3, 6, 9, and 12 months after a single intra-articular injection of leukocyte-rich PRP or BMC.
RESULTS:
There were no statistically significant differences in baseline IKDC or WOMAC scores between the 2 groups. All IKDC and WOMAC scores for both the PRP and BMC groups significantly improved from baseline to 1 month after the injection (P < .001). These improvements were sustained for 12 months after the injection, with no difference between PRP and BMC at any time point.
CONCLUSION:
Both PRP and BMC were effective in improving patient-reported outcomes in patients with mild to moderate knee OA for at least 12 months; neither treatment provided a superior clinical benefit. Autologous PRP and BMC showed promising clinical potential as therapeutic agents for the treatment of OA, and while PRP has strong clinical evidence to support its efficacy, BMC has limited support. This study did not prove BMC to be superior to PRP, providing guidance to clinicians treating OA. It is possible that the results were affected by patients knowing that there was no control group.
REGISTRATION:
NCT03289416 (ClinicalTrials.gov identifier).
 
Why would you start with BMAC when PRP has been shown to be non-inferior?


Orthop J Sports Med. 2020 Feb 18;8(2):2325967119900958. doi: 10.1177/2325967119900958. eCollection 2020 Feb.
Bone Marrow Aspirate Concentrate Is Equivalent to Platelet-Rich Plasma for the Treatment of Knee Osteoarthritis at 1 Year: A Prospective, Randomized Trial.
Anz AW1, Hubbard R1, Rendos NK1, Everts PA2, Andrews JR1, Hackel JG1.
Author information

Abstract

BACKGROUND:
Approximately 47 million people in the United States have been diagnosed with arthritis. Autologous platelet-rich plasma (PRP) injections have been documented to alleviate symptoms related to knee osteoarthritis (OA) in randomized controlled trials, systematic reviews, and meta-analyses. Autologous bone marrow aspirate concentrate (BMC) injections have also emerged as a treatment option for knee OA, with a limited clinical evidence base.
PURPOSE:
To compare the efficacy of BMC to PRP for the treatment of knee OA regarding pain and function at multiple time points up to 12 months after an injection. We hypothesized that BMC will be more effective in improving outcomes in patients with knee OA.
STUDY DESIGN:
Randomized controlled trial; Level of evidence, 2.
METHODS:
A total of 90 participants aged between 18 and 80 years with symptomatic knee OA (Kellgren-Lawrence grades 1-3) were randomized into 2 study groups: PRP and BMC. Both groups completed the Western Ontario and McMaster Universities Osteoarthritis Index (WOMAC) and subjective International Knee Documentation Committee (IKDC) questionnaires before and 1, 3, 6, 9, and 12 months after a single intra-articular injection of leukocyte-rich PRP or BMC.
RESULTS:
There were no statistically significant differences in baseline IKDC or WOMAC scores between the 2 groups. All IKDC and WOMAC scores for both the PRP and BMC groups significantly improved from baseline to 1 month after the injection (P < .001). These improvements were sustained for 12 months after the injection, with no difference between PRP and BMC at any time point.
CONCLUSION:
Both PRP and BMC were effective in improving patient-reported outcomes in patients with mild to moderate knee OA for at least 12 months; neither treatment provided a superior clinical benefit. Autologous PRP and BMC showed promising clinical potential as therapeutic agents for the treatment of OA, and while PRP has strong clinical evidence to support its efficacy, BMC has limited support. This study did not prove BMC to be superior to PRP, providing guidance to clinicians treating OA. It is possible that the results were affected by patients knowing that there was no control group.
REGISTRATION:
NCT03289416 (ClinicalTrials.gov identifier).

Fine. Give your marks PRP instead. Higher profit margin, more suckers.
 
i am one of the ones in PP ssdoc mentioned who is going to basically going to take home no money for 2 months and lay off staff.

i wish right now i was looking at a 10 percent pay cut as some rvu doc mentoined above
 
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i am one of the ones in PP ssdoc mentioned who is going to basically going to take home no money for 2 months and lay off staff.

i wish right now i was looking at a 10 percent pay cut as some rvu doc mentoined above
[/QUOTE/]

Sucks. Whole situation sucks. Keep battling, jsaul. Good to have some of your equity in those real estate properties right now....
 
i am one of the ones in PP ssdoc mentioned who is going to basically going to take home no money for 2 months and lay off staff.

i wish right now i was looking at a 10 percent pay cut as some rvu doc mentoined above

I'm in the same boat as you. While some of us borrowing money to cover payroll, applying for disaster grants, and doing everything we can to keep the doors open for our community others are flaring with late-stage, terminal Stockholm Syndrome...
 
or you can be a PP that decides to stay open come hell or high water, and reap in the finances.

letter sent out from one spine group last Wednesday:

Please know that your (spine) team is here for you, and remains open for all essential office, diagnostic and treatment services, including injections, infusion, imaging, and counseling.
If you are scheduled for an in-office visit, rest assured that we follow CDC and other national and international expert guidelines for a safe environment.
If you exhibit symptoms of infection, including cough, fever, and shortness of breath, you should stay home, consult your primary care physician to address those symptoms, and schedule a telemedicine visit with your provider to ensure that your care is uninterrupted.
 
I'm in the same boat as you. While some of us borrowing money to cover payroll, applying for disaster grants, and doing everything we can to keep the doors open for our community others are flaring with late-stage, terminal Stockholm Syndrome...

You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice.

Lets repeat that: You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice.

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You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice.

Lets repeat that: You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice.

You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice. You are neither a better doctor, nor a better person just because you own a private practice.

Without having the same kind of skin in the game, it's hard for anyone to understand how it feels to put everything on the line and risk your career and livelihood.
 
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Without having the same kind of skin in the game, it's hard for anyone to understand how it feels to put everything on the line and risk your career and livelihood.

no, i understand that. you have a put your heart and soul into your practice, and for reasons out of your control, it is at risk. it really really sucks.

but you have to stop denigrating docs outside of private practice as if they aren't up to your standard.
 
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it seems like having it both ways.

on one side, complaints about loss of autonomy and control being an employed physician and contractual issues along with possibility of being redeployed to doing something other than pain...

on the other side, complain about PP and losing the practice due to following the guidelines put out there.

aren't there issues for all pain docs that they are facing?

I would argue that losing my private practice is maybe not as scary as losing my job in a hospital based system... but even more frightening is being reassigned to a COVID floor...
 
No risk. No reward. No margin. No mission.

No thanks. No sales. No marketing.

My focus is solely on taking care of the patient.
 
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no, i understand that. you have a put your heart and soul into your practice, and for reasons out of your control, it is at risk. it really really sucks.

but you have to stop denigrating docs outside of private practice as if they aren't up to your standard.

What have I said that's denigrating? It's just not equitable to assume that EVERYONE is being impacted the same way by this.

There's a difference between doing doctoring *AND* working 18 hrs a day on disaster planning, human resources, financial planning, crisis management, liaisoning with community partners, strategic communication, etc versus just sitting at home waiting for RVU pellets to fall from the sky...
 
No risk. No reward. No margin. No mission.

No thanks. No sales. No marketing.

My focus is solely on taking care of the patient.

lets just hope one of your clinic patients doesnt get coronovirus. you seem to have a pretty full ledger right now. ill use one of your lines back on you: "i'd be the first doc to testify against you"
 
What have I said that's denigrating? It's just not equitable to assume that EVERYONE is being impacted the same way by this.

There's a difference between doing doctoring *AND* working 18 hrs a day on disaster planning, human resources, financial planning, crisis management, liaisoning with community partners, strategic communication, etc versus just sitting at home waiting for RVU pellets to fall from the sky...

that is denigrating.

nobody said everyone is impacted equally
 
Yes that’s a breach of contract. Don’t sign anything until you have an employment lawyer review. If they breach then you aren’t bound by any other terms (noncompete).

Search “Fogelman” on the PPP Facebook group for a very informative video. Go to 7:50.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
Thanks buddy!
 
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Y
lets just hope one of your clinic patients doesnt get coronovirus. you seem to have a pretty full ledger right now. ill use one of your lines back on you: "i'd be the first doc to testify against you"
You are not a qualified expert.
You are not qualified.
You are not an expert.
You love Trump.
 
What have I said that's denigrating? It's just not equitable to assume that EVERYONE is being impacted the same way by this.

There's a difference between doing doctoring *AND* working 18 hrs a day on disaster planning, human resources, financial planning, crisis management, liaisoning with community partners, strategic communication, etc versus just sitting at home waiting for RVU pellets to fall from the sky...
to boil down the pros and cons....


in light of many employed doctors being deployed... (docs are currently being deployed in my system as we speak)

moderate risk financial death vs. increased risk however slight of actual death.


however, elderly should be willing to die for financial health of the US...
that's also what has been pushed by Lt. Gov. Patrick and Brit Hume amongst others.
 
Y

You are not a qualified expert.
You are not qualified.
You are not an expert.
You love Trump.

Not too many epidemiologist/pain docs out there, so I'd qualify

You are playing with fire by seeing a lot of patients right now. Any of them get it, then you will be responsible for their exposure and the exposure of any of your other patients

It would be difficult to prove causality, but not impossible. Aside from that, its irresponsible. For society in general and your patient in Particular
 
Not too many epidemiologist/pain docs out there, so I'd qualify

You are playing with fire by seeing a lot of patients right now. Any of them get it, then you will be responsible for their exposure and the exposure of any of your other patients

It would be difficult to prove causality, but not impossible. Aside from that, its irresponsible. For society in general and your patient in Particular
You are a left wing nut job. Stay in your lane. Zero chance. Essential. Healthcare.
 
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You are a left wing nut job. Stay in your lane. Zero chance. Essential. Healthcare.

Poli5ics has nothing to do with this.

You are endangering your patients because you think what you do is more important than it is. God complex. Usually, you are right when it comes to the best way to treat pain patients, and i truly respect your medical opinion. In this case, you are wrong and fail to see the big picture.


I am not going to do it, but it would be very easy for someone to make some calls to the relevant authorities and regulatory agencies here....
 
You are a left wing nut job. Stay in your lane. Zero chance. Essential. Healthcare.

In all fairness to Lobel his Governor just found out that Covid could be spread by an asymptomatic carriers on Wednesday of this week....they do say the South is "Slow paced"
 
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Not too many epidemiologist/pain docs out there, so I'd qualify

You are playing with fire by seeing a lot of patients right now. Any of them get it, then you will be responsible for their exposure and the exposure of any of your other patients

It would be difficult to prove causality, but not impossible. Aside from that, its irresponsible. For society in general and your patient in Particular

My MPH is in clinical epidemiology. I win.
 
In all fairness to Lobel his Governor just found out that Covid could be spread by an asymptomatic carriers on Wednesday of this week....they do say the South is "Slow paced"
Ugh. I'm in an adjacent state and despite all of this his Governor is taking this more seriously than mine. We're one of I think now 10 states who haven't instituted a shelter-in-place or whatever you want to call it.
 
Yes that’s a breach of contract. Don’t sign anything until you have an employment lawyer review. If they breach then you aren’t bound by any other terms (noncompete).

Search “Fogelman” on the PPP Facebook group for a very informative video. Go to 7:50.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN



Video now available on their website as well.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
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Excellent discussion!




"Physicians are being told unilaterally that their salaries are being cut in half." @SSdoc33

"The entire physician employment model needs to be re-addressed. We can't depend upon institutions to protect us."

"Your ultimate leverage is your free-agency."

"Doctors need full liquidity against health system admins."

"...It's almost like Stockholm Syndrome..."
 
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