Corporate dentistry. I.e aspen?!!

[H2hdds]

Hello,
I am a new grad....( one year ago) all i have been getting in these rough times are offers from corporate dental offices, aspen, coast dental, towncare...
I would like to get some input on how ppl percieve them.
All i felt is that they are the sharks that are lurking to destroy all private offices...they have tremendous resources to throw any private officethat the open near, out of business.....
I have not read anyngood review from patients....aside from all the legal problems aspen have been swimming in lately....
I almost feel like rallying and lobbying all of our dental commuit against corporate dentistry ...or the dream of opening our own little practices have long discipated...and if there are any thing we can do to stop that?

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[HupHolland]

Hello,
I am a new grad....( one year ago) all i have been getting in these rough times are offers from corporate dental offices, aspen, coast dental, towncare...
I would like to get some input on how ppl percieve them.
All i felt is that they are the sharks that are lurking to destroy all private offices...they have tremendous resources to throw any private officethat the open near, out of business.....
I have not read anyngood review from patients....aside from all the legal problems aspen have been swimming in lately....
I almost feel like rallying and lobbying all of our dental commuit against corporate dentistry ...or the dream of opening our own little practices have long discipated...and if there are any thing we can do to stop that?

Yes, don't work for them.

I associate for a comprehensive family and cosmetic dental practice. This is the kind of place where all staff has been with us over 20 years; grandparents, their children and their grandchildren are all patients. One of our biggest referral sources are disgruntled Aspen patients.

Please, do not work for aspen or any other mill for that matter. Fight the good fight. The thriving family practice still exists.

Hup

 

[suarez 7]

Please, do not work for aspen or any other mill for that matter. Fight the good fight. The thriving family practice still exists.

Hup

I think the vast majority of dental grads would prefer to go work in a private practice, as opposed to a corporate chain. But if associate jobs at these family practices are so few (and this has been the case for a number of years), what do you suppose a new doc should do? These corporate chains only exist because dentists have to work there, because senior dentists don't offer enough positions or don't compensate enough. If older, more established docs offered better compensation instead of being greedy and cheating their associates (like offering 25% of collections or garbage like that), then we wouldn't see so many dental chains.

 

[H2hdds]

I think the vast majority of dental grads would prefer to go work in a private practice, as opposed to a corporate chain. But if associate jobs at these family practices are so few (and this has been the case for a number of years), what do you suppose a new doc should do? These corporate chains only exist because dentists have to work there, because senior dentists don't offer enough positions or don't compensate enough. If older, more established docs offered better compensation instead of being greedy and cheating their associates (like offering 25% of collections or garbage like that), then we wouldn't see so many dental chains.

I totally agree with hupholland....every grad s dream is to open or buy his/her own practice ...those corporate places are way out of any private offices reach as far as advertizing or top notch decor, waiting room seating/ furniture....etc

I mean how can anyone survive if they offer cleanings and xrays for $50...and which patients would dodge that to go next door to the family practitionar who normally charges a 100?????

 

[charlestweed]

I totally agree with hupholland....every grad s dream is to open or buy his/her own practice ...those corporate places are way out of any private offices reach as far as advertizing or top notch decor, waiting room seating/ furniture....etc

I mean how can anyone survive if they offer cleanings and xrays for $50...and which patients would dodge that to go next door to the family practitionar who normally charges a 100?????

If the dental chains can survive $50 for xray/exam/cleaning so can you. You know how much it costs you, the practice owner, to do exam/xray/cleaning? Almost nothing. I offer free ortho exam (and take panoramic x ray if necessary) for all my patients because the blank x ray films only costs me 50 cents each. Would you rather sit around doing nothing and still have to pay your staff, electricity and rent? or Would you rather do xray/exam/ cleaning for $50?

I am strongly against using the high tech gadgets to make the general public believe that these expensive toys somehow will produce more superior clinical results. To me, that's unethical. I believe in low simple overhead office. I'd rather work hard, see more patients at lower fees than seeing fewer patients at higher fees. I believe that the more patients I treat, the more experience I will gain, the more patients who will know about my practice, and the more referrals I will get from them. Good clinical results depend on the doctor's skills and knowledge not on how much he/she charges, the kind of handpiece he/she uses or how beautiful his office looks. It's the painter not the paint brush.

In conclusion, spend less money on setting up your own office, keep the overhead low, and you will never have to worry about the dental chain offices nearby your office.

 

[H2hdds]

If the dental chains can survive $50 for xray/exam/cleaning so can you. You know how much it costs you, the practice owner, to do exam/xray/cleaning? Almost nothing. I offer free ortho exam (and take panoramic x ray if necessary) for all my patients because the blank x ray films only costs me 50 cents each. Would you rather sit around doing nothing and still have to pay your staff, electricity and rent? or Would you rather do xray/exam/ cleaning for $50?

I am strongly against using the high tech gadgets to make the general public believe that these expensive toys somehow will produce more superior clinical results. To me, that's unethical. I believe in low simple overhead office. I'd rather work hard, see more patients at lower fees than seeing fewer patients at higher fees. I believe that the more patients I treat, the more experience I will gain, the more patients who will know about my practice, and the more referrals I will get from them. Good clinical results depend on the doctor's skills and knowledge not on how much he/she charges, the kind of handpiece he/she uses or how beautiful his office looks. It's the painter not the paint brush.

In conclusion, spend less money on setting up your own office, keep the overhead low, and you will never have to worry about the dental chain offices nearby your office.

Sorr, its not always howmgood the clinician is.
If THE BMW 7 series was the same price as a toyota camry....would u go uy the camry???

Aspen, coast dental, ...etc all have the flashiness of the bmw....and they will obviously attract all the patients.....and they careless about the dds......and please read about all the law suits against aspen...all so recent as well

 

[Shunwei]

If the dental chains can survive $50 for xray/exam/cleaning so can you. You know how much it costs you, the practice owner, to do exam/xray/cleaning? Almost nothing. I offer free ortho exam (and take panoramic x ray if necessary) for all my patients because the blank x ray films only costs me 50 cents each. Would you rather sit around doing nothing and still have to pay your staff, electricity and rent? or Would you rather do xray/exam/ cleaning for $50?

I am strongly against using the high tech gadgets to make the general public believe that these expensive toys somehow will produce more superior clinical results. To me, that's unethical. I believe in low simple overhead office. I'd rather work hard, see more patients at lower fees than seeing fewer patients at higher fees. I believe that the more patients I treat, the more experience I will gain, the more patients who will know about my practice, and the more referrals I will get from them. Good clinical results depend on the doctor's skills and knowledge not on how much he/she charges, the kind of handpiece he/she uses or how beautiful his office looks. It's the painter not the paint brush.

In conclusion, spend less money on setting up your own office, keep the overhead low, and you will never have to worry about the dental chain offices nearby your office.

I don't thnk it's as simple as you make it tweedy. For one thing, not all patients will like a bare-bones, minimalist dental office. Looks do matter in our society and this applies to every aspect of life. There will always be people that buy on perceived quality rather than simple price. It is obviously important to keep overhead low from an entrepreneurial perspective but not all dentists want to cater to a Medicaid-level patient pool. Cosmetic practices can be immensely profitable and cater to upscale clientele.

And besides, what's wrong with seeing fewer patients, focus on quality, and charge a decent rate? By focusing on their care quality and making sure that that they get your best, you have the right to charge a slight premium. If you just focus on quantity of patients, it's hard to not see quality tail off.

And what's wrong with hi-tech gadgets? Granted, Cerec or CADCAM have limitations, but they do have their pros. There is a selling point about patients making one stop for a cerec crown without having to come back for a second visit, having to go through temporaries, etc. I personally don't see anything "unethical" about offices using gadgets to augment their patient care repertoire.

In the end, there is a case to be made for both subsistence-level offices like what you obviously advocate versus more luxurious types. You cannot make blanket statements negating one in favor of the other. In your instance, you might be catering to a more blue-collar patient pool relying on Medicaid in a highly competitive locale, but in a different place a hi-tech, luxurious office might be a better attraction. It all comes down to your targeted patient population.

As for $50 exams, well that's corporate America at work and I do believe that soon about 80% of dentistry will be corporate in one form or another. It's like the Walmart situation, where traditional mom-and-pop shops simply can't compete with the resources and marketing capacity of a giant like Walmart. In my opinion, the ones affected most will be the blue-collar, run-of-the-mill GP offices, particularly in urban areas. However, there will always be boutique practice niches available like cosmetic dentistry or specialist practices targeted to specific segments of the population. It's all about finding a niche for yourself.

 

[charlestweed]

Sorr, its not always howmgood the clinician is.
If THE BMW 7 series was the same price as a toyota camry....would u go uy the camry???

Aspen, coast dental, ...etc all have the flashiness of the bmw....and they will obviously attract all the patients.....and they careless about the dds......and please read about all the law suits against aspen...all so recent as well

Dental chain attract patients by accepting most insurance plans (HMO, medicaid) that other private dental practices don't accept. Most of the dental chains I've worked for don't have the flashiness of the BMW. Their clinic lobbies look messy and overcrowded. The furniture are old. Some dental chairs are more than 20 years old.....especially at SmileCare (which was recently bought by Coast Dental).

 

[charlestweed]

I don't thnk it's as simple as you make it tweedy. For one thing, not all patients will like a bare-bones, minimalist dental office. Looks do matter in our society and this applies to every aspect of life. There will always be people that buy on perceived quality rather than simple price. It is obviously important to keep overhead low from an entrepreneurial perspective but not all dentists want to cater to a Medicaid-level patient pool. Cosmetic practices can be immensely profitable and cater to upscale clientele.

And besides, what's wrong with seeing fewer patients, focus on quality, and charge a decent rate? By focusing on their care quality and making sure that that they get your best, you have the right to charge a slight premium. If you just focus on quantity of patients, it's hard to not see quality tail off.

And what's wrong with hi-tech gadgets? Granted, Cerec or CADCAM have limitations, but they do have their pros. There is a selling point about patients making one stop for a cerec crown without having to come back for a second visit, having to go through temporaries, etc. I personally don't see anything "unethical" about offices using gadgets to augment their patient care repertoire.

In the end, there is a case to be made for both subsistence-level offices like what you obviously advocate versus more luxurious types. You cannot make blanket statements negating one in favor of the other. In your instance, you might be catering to a more blue-collar patient pool relying on Medicaid in a highly competitive locale, but in a different place a hi-tech, luxurious office might be a better attraction. It all comes down to your targeted patient population.

As for $50 exams, well that's corporate America at work and I do believe that soon about 80% of dentistry will be corporate in one form or another. It's like the Walmart situation, where traditional mom-and-pop shops simply can't compete with the resources and marketing capacity of a giant like Walmart. In my opinion, the ones affected most will be the blue-collar, run-of-the-mill GP offices, particularly in urban areas. However, there will always be boutique practice niches available like cosmetic dentistry or specialist practices targeted to specific segments of the population. It's all about finding a niche for yourself.

Shunwei, it's good to hear you've done well. Leaving CA for TX is a very smart thing to do.

As I said earlier, it's the painter not the paint brush. High volume and lower fees do not necessarily mean low quality substandard work. Not all dentists are created equal. Some doctors can see high volume of patients and still do great work. It takes some docs a few seconds to recognize class II lesions on the bite wing. Some docs spend a long time to look at the x ray and still miss several carious lesions. Some docs do an endo in 1 hour. Some docs spend 2-3 hrs and still miss one canal. Some docs use the perio probe on every patient. Some docs totally ignore perio. As a specialist, I've worked with so many GPs. I've seen terrible work and over-treatment planning that come from high end offices. And I've also seen honest and skillful GPs who run bare bone practices.

I am not against the high tech gadgets. What I am against is the doctor who uses them to advertise to the public that these expensive toys some how produces better clinical results than the offices that don't have these toys. Cerec crown is not better than the traditional PFM crown. Cerec requires more removal of tooth structure, limited shade selection, lack of tranlucency, poorer marginal fit (PVS impression captures the margin more accurately than the cerec's camera) etc.

I never feel bad when the patients leave my office and choose to pay more at another better looking high tech office. I don't need these kind of patients in my practice. I only want to treat people who trust me and value my work....not the type of plasma TV or the game room I have in the lobby.

 

[Shunwei]

Shunwei, it's good to hear you've done well. Leaving CA for TX is a very smart thing to do.

As I said earlier, it's the painter not the paint brush. High volume and lower fees do not necessarily mean low quality substandard work. Not all dentists are created equal. Some doctors can see high volume of patients and still do great work. It takes some docs a few seconds to recognize class II lesions on the bite wing. Some docs spend a long time to look at the x ray and still miss several carious lesions. Some docs do an endo in 1 hour. Some docs spend 2-3 hrs and still miss one canal. Some docs use the perio probe on every patient. Some docs totally ignore perio. As a specialist, I've worked with so many GPs. I've seen terrible work and over-treatment planning that come from high end offices. And I've also seen honest and skillful GPs who run bare bone practices.

I am not against the high tech gadgets. What I am against is the doctor who uses them to advertise to the public that these expensive toys some how produces better clinical results than the offices that don't have these toys. Cerec crown is not better than the traditional PFM crown. Cerec requires more removal of tooth structure, limited shade selection, lack of tranlucency, poorer marginal fit (PVS impression captures the margin more accurately than the cerec's camera) etc.

I never feel bad when the patients leave my office and choose to pay more at another better looking high tech office. I don't need these kind of patients in my practice. I only want to treat people who trust me and value my work....not the type of plasma TV or the game room I have in the lobby.

I know what you are talking about tweedy, but the gist of what I m saying is that different flavored appeal to different people. All other things being equal, different patients will flock to different providers, and a bare-bones office will attract someone different than a luxurious office will. It's about carving your niche. And appearances will matter in my opinion. But we can agree to disagree.

 

[Jim nolan]

I worked with them 2 months...garbage....they are garbage...they suck you dry....corporate dentistry just cares about dumb idiots who are willing to work like dogs for them....if you are a loser with no comm. skills than they love you, because you are the ***** who will make them money while you get ****t salary