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DrJeff said:First off, is #6 actually #6 or is it a retained #C?? That would really effect my decision greatly if it was a retained primary tooth.
Also need to be careful with the rotated #5 and her rather wide smile line. If she's really as esthetically concerned.
Lastly depending on her occlusion and the above issues, I've got a raher dramatic/yet "conservative" treatment plan in mind that I'll chime in on later. Since I'm a "pro" I'll let some of DIT "dentists in training" respond first.
Fullosseousflap said:
crazy_sherm said:I would say to have her get those hairs on her nose removed first because i notice those way more than the slightly crooked tooth.
cusp of carabelli said:i want to know WHY she rejected the ortho option. too expensive? doesn't want wires to be showing etc. maybe if we can address her concerns on this topic, she may give in to ortho in the end...
cusp of carabelli said:i want to know WHY she rejected the ortho option. too expensive? doesn't want wires to be showing? etc. maybe if we can address her concerns on this topic, she may give in to ortho in the end...(how old is she btw?...)
Fullosseousflap said:Keep them coming!
And yes I look forward to more cases beig posted.
Any dental students presenting this case in school?
tx oms said:Well, sir, omfsres and I have a joint solution.
1) Bleach teeth
2) Composite veneer #C to bulk the tooth up and match contralateral canine
3) Porcelain veneer #5,7-12 to provide color match and correct alignment--don't prep the lingual contrary to an earlier post
4) When C loosens/falls out--implant with or without ext #6 depending on x-ray
Need to mount the casts and study the occlusion and do a diagnostic wax-up first, though. We don't feel the pt needs esthetic crown lengthening secondary to the fact that she doesn't show her ant gingiva in this picture, which we assume to be a smile attempt. No crowns. Lee press-on teeth are conservative and simple.
For the love of god, don't muck with her occlusion! Fix the smile if she wants it but leave the occlusion alone (assuming she is asymptomatic).
DrJeff said:Let's see if she's in her 30's and wants this done quick, would see be expecting to re-enter the dating scene soon (likely with less jewelry on her left ring finger ) or would she be coming up on big reunion soon?? Or maybe she's just overdosed on Extreme Makeover episodes recently??
I've learned over the years, especially with female patients that folks who are looking for a rather quick/dramatic cosmetic change to their teeth typically have some type of major life change and/or social change occuring, and the psychological issues need to be taken into account or else you might end up with a REALLY unhappy patient down the road demanding that you fix her smile again because it wasn't done "how you said it would"
I'd probably treat this case, given her parameters/ demands as follows:
1) after she approves of the diagnostic wax up (and it might take more than 1 wax up to accomplish this), I'd bleach her teeth (whatever system you prefer)
2) 10 lumineer veneers (these are made by Den Mat and are approximately 0.2mm thick and you quite often won't even need to prep the teeth) from #4 through #13. The only tooth that I'd likely do some prep work on is #5 to allow for a more "classical" appearance of the buccal surfaces of her maxiallary right posterior sextant
I've done about 20 cases now with this type of veneer and have been very satisfied with the esthetics (more importantly so have my patients), and I'll admit that I was quite skeptical of a "no prep" veneer before I tried them (1st case was one of my assistants, and as she put it, "Dr J, if they end up looking like Cr$%, I'll drive you crazy by smiling at you all day long and you'll redo them with traditional veneers in about 2 seconds!" - they've been in place for about 10 months now and she loves them!)
The other great thing about this option is that since you likely wouldn't have to prep 9 of the 10 teeth, this long term is a very, very conservative option with respect to tooth structure
The other thing to consider, is if you hit a "homerun" with this case, you can almost bet that a few of her friends will be referred to you asking that you make their smiles look as great as hers!"
Fullosseousflap said:Would you not be concerned about her occlusion and hence the ability to retain no prep veneers? Also, would they not look bulky on her laterals which already protrude?
Let's look at her photo again: Click here.
I'll be away for some of the day today - going to look at a practice in San Diego and play some cards with some dental school buddies.
But, hope you guys have some other great suggestions by the time I return.
Later,
Flap
Fullosseousflap said:Would you not be concerned about her occlusion and hence the ability to retain no prep veneers? Also, would they not look bulky on her laterals which already protrude?
Let's look at her photo again: Click here.
I'll be away for some of the day today - going to look at a practice in San Diego and play some cards with some dental school buddies.
But, hope you guys have some other great suggestions by the time I return.
Later,
Flap
tx oms said:Flap, you seem to have the "right" answer, so what is it? BTW, #C won't last her lifetime; therefore, no permanent/porcelain restorations at this time.
Wouldnt you need to do ortho in order to retrieve the canine? How can she go with just c for the rest of her life? Couldnt #6 cause a cyst if left for a long time?DDSSlave said:Dr. Jeff,
Out of curiousity how would your wife treat her? In particular, would she extract #C and go after #6, or (given the pt's age) refer her back to the gp to crown or veneer #C after ortho?
Simple, wait till she's in her 50's. Bone density won't be a problem anymore.DDSSlave said:Good question. Certainly there are times when it is best to leave impacted teeth. You have to balance the risk of potential pathology with how easy it is to retrieve such a tooth. Certainly an impacted 3rd in the coronoid process of a 50yo with no current pathology is probably best left alone. I would guess a young teenager with an impacted canine would have the surgery. However, this woman is in her 30's, prob with denser bone. How easy is it going to be to retrieve the tooth orthodontically? Anyway, I'm far from being an orthodontist or oral surgeon, so I was curious.
Fullosseousflap said:It would nice to hear from an orthodontist on how they would treat/approach this case.
The photo again is here.
Fullosseousflap said:It would nice to hear from an orthodontist on how they would treat/approach this case.
The photo again is here.
Fullosseousflap said:I'll try again.
I would like to hear from some Orthodontic and OMS Residents or Professors on a treatment rationale for the impacted cuspid and of course the evidence.
Thanks!
DrJeff said:P.S. I'l try and void out my wife's opinions about how to tackle this case(she's an orthodontist) and was jumping up and down when teh picture came up on the screen
drben said:From an orthodontic perspective it is MUCH easier to predictably retrieve impacted canines from children/adolescents than it is in adults (anectodally and experimentally). Becker and Chaushu published an article in AJODO, November 2003 titled "Success rate and duration of orthodontic treatment for adult patients with palatally impacted maxillary canines" that discussed this issue.
The study was a retrospective study examining records of an "experimental" group (adults age 20 and over) matched to an adolescent control of unilateral, and bilateral impacted canines. In the control group the mean age was 13.7 years and retrieval sucess was 100%, while in the experimental group the mean age was 29.8 years and a sucess rate of 69.5%. Additionally, the number of appointments dedicated to "canine tx" was 15.3 in the adult group, and 6.8 in the control group (which would mean a longer overall treatment duration in the adult group). It was interesting to note that when the experimental group was subgrouped into adults over 30 the sucess rate was 41%, while the 20-29 year subgroup had 100% success.
The results of the study are subject to scrutiny due to the relatively small sample size (n=23), but I refer to the results often when discussing treatment options with adult patients. The biggest determining factors for me when deciding whether or not to go after an impacted canine in an adult is the radiographic proximity of the canine to the adjacent teeth (most often lateral incisor) as well as the age of the patient.
Hope this helps....as far as an orthodontic diagnosis and treatment plan I would need to see a complete set of records before I said anything except "braces" If it was decided to have an implant at that site I would just stress the importance of developing group function on that side to mitigate lateral forces directed on the implant.
Regards,
Ben White, DDS, MSD
Orthodontist
...says the established authority.vertical bite said:Dr White, amazingly you typed all that and basically said so little in so many words. I am very disappointed...
drben said:From an orthodontic perspective it is MUCH easier to predictably retrieve impacted canines from children/adolescents than it is in adults (anectodally and experimentally). Becker and Chaushu published an article in AJODO, November 2003 titled "Success rate and duration of orthodontic treatment for adult patients with palatally impacted maxillary canines" that discussed this issue.
The study was a retrospective study examining records of an "experimental" group (adults age 20 and over) matched to an adolescent control of unilateral, and bilateral impacted canines. In the control group the mean age was 13.7 years and retrieval sucess was 100%, while in the experimental group the mean age was 29.8 years and a sucess rate of 69.5%. Additionally, the number of appointments dedicated to "canine tx" was 15.3 in the adult group, and 6.8 in the control group (which would mean a longer overall treatment duration in the adult group). It was interesting to note that when the experimental group was subgrouped into adults over 30 the sucess rate was 41%, while the 20-29 year subgroup had 100% success.
The results of the study are subject to scrutiny due to the relatively small sample size (n=23), but I refer to the results often when discussing treatment options with adult patients. The biggest determining factors for me when deciding whether or not to go after an impacted canine in an adult is the radiographic proximity of the canine to the adjacent teeth (most often lateral incisor) as well as the age of the patient.
Hope this helps....as far as an orthodontic diagnosis and treatment plan I would need to see a complete set of records before I said anything except "braces" If it was decided to have an implant at that site I would just stress the importance of developing group function on that side to mitigate lateral forces directed on the implant.
Regards,
Ben White, DDS, MSD
Orthodontist
vertical bite said:Dr White, amazingly you typed all that and basically said so little in so many words. I am very disappointed...