Cost of school

[Fooman]

Seeing that everyone can receive some sort of financial aid, whether it be scholoarship or loans, etc....do any of you consider cost as a factor in deciding where to go? Afterall, you can pay it back in the end. Also, how long does it take for most people to pay off their loans after graduation/residency?

One more, what non-state schools are considered expensive? I briefly browsed through some and they are all about the same for tuition.

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[Toran]

Don't let the cost of the school be a majoy deciding factor on where you go to school. You will be able to pay it back quickly. Most of the private schools are about the same, but seriously don't focus on the pricetag. Work on learning about the differences in education first

T

 

[Freeeedom!]

I disagree with Toran...price IS an issue, especially when considering allopathic vs. osteopathic. For the money, an allopathic education is simply a better deal for the money spent.
There is no one in the world that could possibly deny the difference between $150k in debt vs $60k. Added debt adds pressure to marraige, home life, and the need to moonlight (something frowned upon more and more). It is a mortgage payment without the house!
Make wise decisions my friend...and loan debt certainly should be a factor in such decisions.

 

[Popoy]

Originally posted by Fooman:
•Seeing that everyone can receive some sort of financial aid, whether it be scholoarship or loans, etc....do any of you consider cost as a factor in deciding where to go? Afterall, you can pay it back in the end. Also, how long does it take for most people to pay off their loans after graduation/residency?

One more, what non-state schools are considered expensive? I briefly browsed through some and they are all about the same for tuition.•

I agree w/Toran, but consider what Freeedom has stated as well.... Cost shouldn't deter you from going to medical school.... Once you've received multiple acceptances make sure you ask yourself whether or not you see yourself in that particular school for the next 2-4 years....

Like you said, you can always pay back the cost.... But it shouldn't be the sole factor for not applying or denying an acceptance from a medical school....

I'm sure you'll make the right decision for you when the time comes.... Good luck

 

[slindsay198]

Freeeedom,
i'm dying to hear the rational behind your statement that...

"For the money, an allopathic education is simply a better deal for the money spent."

Scott
PCOM

 

[jean]

I think one needs to be realistic about cost of education vs. potential income. I strongly suggest researching income in your field. Specialities make more money but with that you have longer residency programs. There are scholarships and loan repayment programs for primary care physicians. Take the time to research your options and look into possible scholarships.

 

[Freeeedom!]

slin...,

Think about it, average per year at DO programs is $25-29K, whereas MD programs may be more than $10K a year cheaper...at least! I am not saying DO education is bad at all, nothing like that. But think of who teaches you at MD vs DO programs, these are often very distinguished lecturers. Plus, most MD programs have hospitals on campus...third year is a major PAIN at DO schools primarily because of moving to a new region etc etc. I mean, Harvard and UHS cost roughly the same amount...the name HARVARD alone is worth alot of money. You think the name Pikeville SOM is the same as Louisville in the state? Hell, name means ALOT for residency applications...There are a million reasons, I don't have the energy to talk about 99% of those reasons right now. But for your money...come on!

 

[Popoy]

Freeedom has his points.... I don't think anyone is insinuating that one proffession is better than another.... If so, let's not get into that....

Everyone has an opinion regarding the limitations of application and medical school.... As always take it with a grain of salt.

The beauty about this whole situation is that there's always two sides to an argument....

 

[John DO]

Toran, you're just saying that because you need to justify your school costing $25,000 per year!

It is not fair to compare DO and MD schools on the factor of cost alone. A state-supported DO school costs about the same as a state-supported MD school. However, since most MD schools are state-supported, the average cost is lower. Concerning the "third year is a pain" statement, I actually chose KCOM partially becuase of the ability to move in my third year and avoid the "medical inbreeding" that is fostered at state institutions.

Popoy is correct: weigh your options and do what is right for you and your future career, not what is necessarily cheapest. You do get what you pay for, and even at the lowest paying specialty and the highest loan debt, you will still live comfortably. The problem will arise if you think that doctors live lavishly, because they don't, by any means . . .

Besides, there are so many programs available (before and after you graduate), your biggest concern at this point is not how much you spend (although it IS a factor), but how well you do.

 

[BooBooBear]

To second "John DO",

He put it very well.... state supported DO schools cost about the same as state supported MD schools. And I believe proportionately, the number of DO schools that has a hospital "on campus" or at least in the same community is as high as it is for MD schools.

As for the "name game"... if your goal is to find a "name" school, so that you can get a prestigious residency in order to tout yourself.... eer, market yourself in the future, then you're thinking like a well-trained MBA. Good patient care, like good business, depends on your knowledge and developing trusting relationships.

Stay focussed on being true to yourself.

 

[Freeeedom!]

Take no offense at this guys, but I can tell you guys are a bit idealistic. Which is great, but add some realism in that as well.

Third year for you guys will be exciting, but trust me, as your class spreads like the diaspora, and you lose one to one contact with your school, the advantage of "on campus" med centers becomes obvious. MD students get FAR FAR better counciling during residency apps and while making their schedules. They are actually guided through difficult applications etc. THere have been times I have felt so "lost" during ERAS applications, and it sucks. I have no "real" advisor to help me, and my entire 4th year schedule was done by me and no one else...no guidance. And yours will be virtually the same. Guys, I have worked with a ton of MD students, and the differnces in the 3rd and 4th years are staggering (not quality, but in terms of guidance...DO's have the "fend for themselves type of attitudes").
And the advantage of a "name" is huge...especially in MD residencies. Programs wonder..."is a 3.8 from Pikeville, the same as a 3.8 from Ohio State?" Trust me guys, name means alot, prestige may open a door. The only way to top that, is to take the USMLE, kick ass, and then rotate at the residency site. Even then, if they let you. I have a VERY close friend who tried to rotate at Wash U and she was from an unnamed school in MO (school has been around for over 80 years) and the people at Barnes (Wash U) thought it was a foreign medical school! They had no idea, forcing her to jump through a million hoops just to rotate in psych there.
For every DO trying to get into MD residencies (except FP and PM&R), it is a battle. You really wonder, "now why did I pay my 3rd and 4th year tuition??" We are less products of our medical schools than we are products of our rotation sites...and believe me, University sites are absolutely great...but as a DO student, difficult to get. There is a difference.

Good luck guys.

 

[John DO]

If Wash U didn't recognize UHS (I assume you are referring to), then I am developing a lesser view of Wash U. To neglect to be aware of programs less than a few hours away from your location is pure neglect. I don't think I would like to be taught medicine from a program that is led by clueless individuals. I wonder about her situation, though, because I know of several students from Osteopathic schools rotating there and my understanding is that they are actually sought out. Sadly, students often neglect good learning opportunites just to go the "big name" schools where there resideny will most assuredly be comprised of pure scut work and scut work alone, which is necessary, but not a great learning opportunity!

 

[Freeeedom!]

John,

There aren't many DO students that rotate at Wash U (Barnes) at all. I bet you could count them on one hand. I understand your point, but the programs at Barnes-Jewish are some of the best in the nation...they can be snobby and choosey if they want. It actually was the people in Med-ed that didn't know where that certain DO school was...and since you are still a freshman (or sophomore) you will be amazed at the bewilderment you will see in MD's eyes and allopathic students eyes when you tell them "Kirksville...Touro...UHS...Pikeville etc". They will pretty much nod their head with a blank stare.
Barnes-Jewish programs are absolutely great, don't fault them for the appearance of conceit, perhaps our profession should be faulted for being so isolationist.

 

[dksf]

These are all great arguments. I think it develops good insight to debate and discuss.
When you really look at numbers, which is the original concern of this post, Medicine simply is not the profession. Why? It's called Time Valu of Money. Those of us in the Medical profession other than the sub-sub-specialty incomes will probably never catch up to the TVM we could have earned putting the same costs into investments and letting them work for us for 10 yrs.
Money IS an issue. It is the ingredient in this free country that allows us to do what we want to do- or prevents us from doing that same thing.

 

[phd2b]

DKSF is right. It is even worse if you quit a career in your 30's or 40's to pursue medicine. In that case, you not only loose the future value of the cost of education, but you also loose the future value of your lost wages! In an interview, I'd have to say, "It definitely is NOT for the money!".

phd2b

 

[Freeeedom!]

I hope I did not sound negative before...DO schools offer a great education, they are just too damned expensive.

THis of course forces residents to "moonlight" out the ass. But trust me, you can pull in some good cash and if you are smart, put it towards loans. You can bring in at least $50-100k extra a year at the PGY2,3 levels.

 

[John DO]

If you are real resourceful, you can pull in 80K a year part-time as a first/second year resident like a friend of mine does. He has done this since his first year of residency--works his butt off though.

 

[Freeeedom!]

A PGY1 can't moonlight...maybe an R1, but not PGY1.