COT in July 2009

[MaximusD]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Looks like I'm going to be juggling my early rotation schedule in order to accomodate COT seeing as I've been told in rather straightforward terms that I will NOT be able to do USAF rotations without COT, and although they say it can't be used against me to not have completed military clerkship, I can't imagine it would help in any way not to get face time! Using my electives and selectives, I'm moving around rotations and displacing a core peds rotation, but I think I have it all worked out.

Laura DO, I know you said you'll be doing COT this up and coming summer. Is it going to be in June or July? Spiced... how bout you?

 

[spicedmanna]

Looks like I'm going to be juggling my early rotation schedule in order to accomodate COT seeing as I've been told in rather straightforward terms that I will NOT be able to do USAF rotations without COT, and although they say it can't be used against me to not have completed military clerkship, I can't imagine it would help in any way not to get face time! Using my electives and selectives, I'm moving around rotations and displacing a core peds rotation, but I think I have it all worked out.

Laura DO, I know you said you'll be doing COT this up and coming summer. Is it going to be in June or July? Spiced... how bout you?

Eh, I'm not inclined to spend my valuable clinical rotation time @ COT. Unless something compels me to change my mind, I'm going to do non-active duty rotations at a USAF base or two, instead. This way, I can get in the USAF face time and interview, even though I haven't yet taken COT. As far as I know, there's no significant difference between non-active duty rotations at USAF bases and AD ones, except for status and pay, which doesn't matter that much to me. In fact, I'm doing a school tour now, so I'm making up for the pay I would have gotten doing an AD clinical rotation tour.

That's what I have in mind right now. I still don't know where I'm going to be doing my 3rd year rotations, but I expect to know before thanksgiving. Until then, I don't know what my rotation schedule looks like and whatnot. I'm sure things are going to clear up as I progress and then I'll have a better idea of how I want to proceed with AD/NAD USAF rotations and COT.

 

[LauraDO]

I'm doing the June COT, I decided to do this one since if I did the July one I would have a one day turnover between the start of school and end of COT

...AND....because I was advised from people that went last year that June is better for many reasons

a) Less people so they are a bit less stringent on thing and a bit more relaxed
b) It is DAMN hot in Alabama (and this is coming from student that go to school in Florida) but it much less hot in June than in July

If you can I would do the June COT for the above reasons, plus the overwhelmingly exciting opportuntiy to spend 4 weeks with me.....
👍

 

[MaximusD]

I'm doing the June COT, I decided to do this one since if I did the July one I would have a one day turnover between the start of school and end of COT

...AND....because I was advised from people that went last year that June is better for many reasons

a) Less people so they are a bit less stringent on thing and a bit more relaxed
b) It is DAMN hot in Alabama (and this is coming from student that go to school in Florida) but it much less hot in June than in July

If you can I would do the June COT for the above reasons, plus the overwhelmingly exciting opportuntiy to spend 4 weeks with me.....
👍

I would have done a June COT, believe me, however boards are my first priority and the "June" COT actually has a report date during the last week of May. That would mean that I would have to take a mid-late May Step I as compared to an early-June COMLEX 1, meaning I'd lose 1-2 weeks of good study time. That's a bad idea, IMO seeing as board scores are 1/3 of the military match criteria -- no exaggeration.

Seeing the amt of material I've crammed into my brain in a day, I can't underestimate the amount of information I could assemble in a week of hard studying.

 

[MaximusD]

Eh, I'm not inclined to spend my valuable clinical rotation time @ COT. Unless something compels me to change my mind, I'm going to do non-active duty rotations at a USAF base or two, instead. This way, I can get in the USAF face time and interview, even though I haven't yet taken COT. As far as I know, there's no significant difference between non-active duty rotations at USAF bases and AD ones, except for status and pay, which doesn't matter that much to me. In fact, I'm doing a school tour now, so I'm making up for the pay I would have gotten doing an AD clinical rotation tour.

That's what I have in mind right now. I still don't know where I'm going to be doing my 3rd year rotations, but I expect to know before thanksgiving. Until then, I don't know what my rotation schedule looks like and whatnot. I'm sure things are going to clear up as I progress and then I'll have a better idea of how I want to proceed with AD/NAD USAF rotations and COT.

Will they let you do your "interview ADT" as a civilian?

I just want everything to go smoothly so I'll sacrifice some flexibility in my third and fourth year schedule to accomodate the military. I know that they can eff me with a dowel rod if I don't cross every T and dot every I, so why tempt them?

 

[spicedmanna]

Will they let you do your "interview ADT" as a civilian?

As far as I know, you can. You are still an USAF officer applying for the match, aren't you? The only difference is the timing of COT, which has been deferred until graduation in my case.

My research indicates that Non-ADT rotations at USAF bases are not difficult to obtain. My school just needs to sign an agreement with the rotation site, which it has to do with ADT's as well, so it's essentially transparent. The only difference I could find is that I wouldn't get the same pay.

I just want everything to go smoothly so I'll sacrifice some flexibility in my third and fourth year schedule to accomodate the military. I know that they can eff me with a dowel rod if I don't cross every T and dot every I, so why tempt them?

Understood. I would probably do the same, except there is little to no flexibility in my schedule.

 

[MaximusD]

As far as I know, you can. You are still an USAF officer applying for the match, aren't you? The only difference is the timing of COT, which has been deferred until graduation in my case.

My research indicates that Non-ADT rotations at USAF bases are not difficult to obtain. My school just needs to sign an agreement with the rotation site, which it has to do with ADT's as well, so it's essentially transparent. The only difference I could find is that I wouldn't get the same pay.

Understood. I would probably do the same, except there is little to no flexibility in my schedule.

You're still an officer, but you aren't activated. Seems like a grey area to me haha. Would you have to salute/take orders if you aren't activated?

I'm told other branches can rotate without having done training. It's a little annoying that we can't. I guess we wouldn't know how to salute and some other minor things that we could pick up as we go, but I'm guessing that military hospitals are more similar than dissimilar to civilian hospitals, particularly at the large academic centers.

 

[spicedmanna]

You're still an officer, but you aren't activated. Seems like a grey area to me haha. Would you have to salute/take orders if you aren't activated?

I have always assumed that the answer to your question is, "yes." I'm on active duty right now, but even when I was inactive, I acted like I was activated.

I'm told other branches can rotate without having done training. It's a little annoying that we can't.

We can rotate at USAF bases even w/o COT, we just can't do it on active duty. However, I agree with you. I am more than slightly annoyed that I can't do ADT's just because I can't fit COT into my otherwise very tight schedule. I have school all the way up until July this year and rotations generally start in August. There just isn't enough time and it's no fault of my own that my commission happened a few weeks before the start of classes.

I guess we wouldn't know how to salute and some other minor things that we could pick up as we go, but I'm guessing that military hospitals are more similar than dissimilar to civilian hospitals, particularly at the large academic centers.

Yes, I agree. I did a mini-rotation at a military hospital last summer and I found it to be pretty laid back with respect to military matters; it was essentially business as usual. It was still evident that I was at a military hospital, mainly because the staff wore uniforms, pretty much admitted everyone, used AHLTA, and used, "sir" or "ma'am," but it struck me that these guys were healthcare professionals first and foremost and the main focus was the care of the patients. The healthcare role was more important than rank, at least at the level of the floor staff. Just as you mentioned, more similar to a civilian hospital than one would imagine. This may not be everybody's experience, but it was mine. And, yes, it's fairly easy to pick up the necessary military protocols and mannerisms; everyone is helpful and more than willing to teach you what to do with respect to these matters. Nothing like on-the-job training to accelerate things.

 

[MaximusD]

I have always assumed that the answer to your question is, "yes." I'm on active duty right now, but even when I was inactive, I acted like I was activated.

Not sure if I'd be drinking a beer while studying if I was activated 😉 Then again, it's not every day your potentially-national champ team loses a horrible upset at an unranked Iowa. 🙁 Oh well, we can still make the Rose Bowl hopefully.

When on School Orders, do you have to wear your uniform?

We can rotate at USAF bases even w/o COT, we just can't do it on active duty. However, I agree with you. I am more than slightly annoyed that I can't do ADT's just because I can't fit COT into my otherwise very tight schedule. I have school all the way up until July this year and rotations generally start in August. There just isn't enough time and it's no fault of my own that my commission happened a few weeks before the start of classes.

Your rotations don't start until August?? Our rotations begin in June '09. To fit COT, I chose (not really a complete choice... i chose meaning i prioritized it high on our lottery) a selective for June (which can be broken into two week parts...) I moved the first half of the selective to Xmas. July '09 was supposed to be a core peds rotation, but I am moving that to my elective time and am moving my elective to a vacation slot during fourth year. I'll make the 2 weeks of my amb. surg elective up during Xmas break... I'll just do it at a local gastro in my hometown (we have a pretty large regional trauma center nearby). So it all works out OK. As I've said before, I could have done a June COT, but it would have given me less study time for the early-June COMLEX 1, and I want to ensure I get as much study time as possible and I want to take teh exam BEFORE rotations, because I know rotations won't allow much study time.

Yes, I agree. I did a mini-rotation at a military hospital last summer and I found it to be pretty laid back with respect to military matters; it was essentially business as usual. It was still evident that I was at a military hospital, mainly because the staff wore uniforms, pretty much admitted everyone, used AHLTA, and used, "sir" or "ma'am," but it struck me that these guys were healthcare professionals first and foremost and the main focus was the care of the patients. The healthcare role was more important than rank, at least at the level of the floor staff. Just as you mentioned, more similar to a civilian hospital than one would imagine. This may not be everybody's experience, but it was mine. And, yes, it's fairly easy to pick up the necessary military protocols and mannerisms; everyone is helpful and more than willing to teach you what to do with respect to these matters. Nothing like on-the-job training to accelerate things.

That sounds useful. It's a shame the USAF chooses this policy. I can't imagine the justification. I fail to see how a USAF student on a clerkship has to be better trained than a Navy or Army student doc in the ways of the military. Oh well - signed on the dotted line

 

[spicedmanna]

When on School Orders, do you have to wear your uniform?

That's a good question, actually. As far as I know, it's not mandatory, since it's a civilian institution, but you can, if you want. At least none of the prior service and/or academy trained officers in my class have told me otherwise. As per the custom in our school, we wear our uniforms once a month (first Friday of each month). However, one difference in being active-duty, as far as I know, is that I don't believe I am authorized to leave my area (travel) without permission. It would be as if my school were my base and I was assigned to that base for the duration of my orders.

Your rotations don't start until August??

Yeah, tell me about it. I don't prefer it, but that's how my curriculum is set up currently. We have class all the way to July and the time remaining isn't sufficient for COT.

Our rotations begin in June '09. To fit COT, I chose (not really a complete choice... i chose meaning i prioritized it high on our lottery) a selective for June (which can be broken into two week parts...) I moved the first half of the selective to Xmas. July '09 was supposed to be a core peds rotation, but I am moving that to my elective time and am moving my elective to a vacation slot during fourth year. I'll make the 2 weeks of my amb. surg elective up during Xmas break... I'll just do it at a local gastro in my hometown (we have a pretty large regional trauma center nearby). So it all works out OK. As I've said before, I could have done a June COT, but it would have given me less study time for the early-June COMLEX 1, and I want to ensure I get as much study time as possible and I want to take teh exam BEFORE rotations, because I know rotations won't allow much study time.

Wow. You sure thought it through and did some good planning. 👍 I hope it all happens seamlessly for you and works out well.

It's a shame the USAF chooses this policy. I can't imagine the justification. I fail to see how a USAF student on a clerkship has to be better trained than a Navy or Army student doc in the ways of the military. Oh well - signed on the dotted line

We are in full agreement here.

 

[Jolie South]

forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does it mean to be on school orders?

i know that i won't be able to do anything AF related between MS1 and MS2 since our summer is essentially a month long. i somehow doubt it will correlate with whatever aerospace medicine/flight surgery course is offered.

 

[spicedmanna]

forgive my ignorance, but what exactly does it mean to be on school orders?

It is an order that places you on active duty at your school. Your school is your base, to which you commute to, and you are assigned to it for the duration of your orders, which is 45 days. You are paid for your active duty time based on your pay grade (which for us HPSP'ers is going to be O-1, around $2,555/month) and you get BAH and BAS (basic allowance for housing and sustainance, i.e., money for rent and food that isn't taxable). You are on active duty, so you can't travel away from your area without permission. These are the only differences that I am aware of that are palpable to me.

i know that i won't be able to do anything AF related between MS1 and MS2 since our summer is essentially a month long. i somehow doubt it will correlate with whatever aerospace medicine/flight surgery course is offered.

I believe we have 4 ADT's that we can use during our time at school. My understanding is that we are able to take out school orders once a school year, if we want, instead of doing an ADT clerkship, or the like. Contact your PM at AFIT and inquire about the possibility of doing a school tour/taking out school orders.

 

[Jolie South]

It is an order that places you on active duty at your school. Your school is your base, to which you commute to, and you are assigned to it for the duration of your orders, which is 45 days. You are paid for your active duty time based on your pay grade (which for us HPSP'ers is going to be O-1, around $2,555/month) and you get BAH and BAS (basic allowance for housing and sustainance, i.e., money for rent and food that isn't taxable). You are on active duty, so you can't travel away from your area without permission. These are the only differences that I am aware of that are palpable to me.



I believe we have 4 ADT's that we can use during our time at school. My understanding is that we are able to take out school orders once a school year, if we want, instead of doing an ADT clerkship, or the like. Contact your PM at AFIT and inquire about the possibility of doing a school tour/taking out school orders.

what is the rule on travel during other school vacation periods when we're not AD?

 

[spicedmanna]

what is the rule on travel during other school vacation periods when we're not AD?

Good question. I don't believe there are any restrictions, or conditions, on CONUS travel if you aren't AD.

 

[MaximusD]

Wow. You sure thought it through and did some good planning. 👍 I hope it all happens seamlessly for you and works out well.

It never does.