Could every D.O student succeed in the Caribbean?

[WedgeDawg]

There are plenty of students at top USMD schools who would not get a residency coming out of the Caribbean due to the way that their program is structured and the biases that exist against them.

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[Grey Storm]

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[AlbinoHawk DO]

Makes a big different that is why guys like you are pissed off about Carib students getting matched into the same programs DO Students achieve

We both know the degree makes no difference. It might make a difference to you, but it doesn't any other context.

I don't care where Carib students match. I haven't seen a single person here say it matters to them. The only thing they say is that your chances of matching to begin with are bad.

 

[Promethean]

I don't know where you guys get these numbers from. SGU without boarding cost me 228000, what did your DO school cost?

I was using your quoted number. My school? My tuition is under $100k for my whole program. If I had to go an extra year, I'd still be $100k ahead. Maybe you want to have this argument with someone going to a more expensive school than me?

Look, anyone who is attacking the quality of your education is off base. Clearly, if you passed the boards, you learned something. The question isn't whether SGU *can* provide adequate training. What I am asserting is that their admissions tactics are no less predatory just because the fraction of students who survive their post admission winnowing process can then go on to do well.

That you survived a lion's den doesn't make it a great idea for others to jump in. Not when there are safer ways to get to the same place.

 

[impervious0ne]

I can't help but feel that the stories of Caribbean that we hear are result of selection bias. Lot of reviewers tend to fall along the bi modal distribution - ones who had great experience (I suspect if they had slightly better application/strategy they would have made it to US schools anyway) or terrible experience (ones who had no business in medical schools in the first place). I think it might be nice to hear a story from students who fall in the middle of the bell curve.

 

[Promethean]

I can't help but feel that the stories of Caribbean that we hear are result of selection bias. Lot of reviewers tend to fall along the bi modal distribution - ones who had great experience (I suspect if they had slightly better application/strategy they would have made it to US schools anyway) or terrible experience (ones who had no business in medical schools in the first place). I think it might be nice to hear a story from students who fall in the middle of the bell curve.

So, my lab tech friend was definitely med school material except that she used poor judgment and believed a recruiter who sold her on the idea of an easier route.

This idea that people who fail out of the Caribbean schools are all screw ups who had no place in any med school just isn't true. A great many of them are people who were afraid to take the MCAT, or who were just insecure about facing the competitiveness of the US admissions cycles. There were definitely times during the application process when I was biting my nails and if someone had dangled instant acceptance in front of me, I might have been on a plane to someplace tropical... if I didn't know better.

By the above poster's own numbers, 45% of SGUs class fails out. And it is supposed to be one of the better schools in that regard. So, it isn't possible to offer you a "normal" curve. Given how much worse some of the other schools are, it isn't surprising that there aren't a lot of middle of the road stories.

Of the docs that I know personally who did manage to get US residencies and licenses after a Caribbean education, there are probably a lot of the stories that you'd like to hear. People who got through, but recognize that they took a much more expensive and dangerous route than they'd needed to... and they don't really want to talk about it or draw attention to it, because there is so much judgment of IMGs. They kinda hope that no one notices and just lets them go about their business in peace.

 

[Nikj]

Man for a guy who went to an inadequate school, I did pretty good on my boards and achieving a residency..

I can't help but feel that the stories of Caribbean that we hear are result of selection bias. Lot of reviewers tend to fall along the bi modal distribution - ones who had great experience (I suspect if they had slightly better application/strategy they would have made it to US schools anyway) or terrible experience (ones who had no business in medical schools in the first place). I think it might be nice to hear a story from students who fall in the middle of the bell curve.

With the ACGME merger the opportunity for Caribbean students matching will be greatly reduced. Anyone reading this post should not be fooled. Go DO and don't look back.

 

[impervious0ne]

So, my lab tech friend was definitely med school material except that she used poor judgment and believed a recruiter who sold her on the idea of an easier route.

This idea that people who fail out of the Caribbean schools are all screw ups who had no place in any med school just isn't true. A great many of them are people who were afraid to take the MCAT, or who were just insecure about facing the competitiveness of the US admissions cycles. There were definitely times during the application process when I was biting my nails and if someone had dangled instant acceptance in front of me, I might have been on a plane to someplace tropical... if I didn't know better.

By the above poster's own numbers, 45% of SGUs class fails out. And it is supposed to be one of the better schools in that regard. So, it isn't possible to offer you a "normal" curve. Given how much worse some of the other schools are, it isn't surprising that there aren't a lot of middle of the road stories.

Of the docs that I know personally who did manage to get US residencies and licenses after a Caribbean education, there are probably a lot of the stories that you'd like to hear. People who got through, but recognize that they took a much more expensive and dangerous route than they'd needed to... and they don't really want to talk about it or draw attention to it, because there is so much judgment of IMGs. They kinda hope that no one notices and just lets them go about their business in peace.

Thanks for the story @Promethean

I can definitely understand the insecurities. I don't think I was the only one who felt anxious about future prospects post-graduation. I honestly wouldn't know how to handle rejection after 1st cycle after multiple years of post-bacc.

 

[Goro]

Correct. We want to see our students succeed. I don't know if all med schools have the same policy for remediation. It's possible that they make students repeat the year.

So at your school, if a student fails a class, they have to just retake that one class? Is this the same policy for all US schools?

I know at SGU, if you fail one class you will get kicked out (with a chance to appeal) Ross kicks you out if you fail 2 semesters.

So it's clear that SGU makes sure that only their best students make it out with this policy.

 

[Alienman52]

So, your alma mater is among the best of the worst. And... you did manage to survive it AND match into a residency. Great for you. That doesn't mean that it isn't still a terrible option that no one should pursue unless they are made of money and have genuinely exhausted all the US routes.

And the bolded above makes it clear that you understand that on some level as well.

As for not knowing what we are talking about... I haven't been to the Caribbean for med school, but I have friends and acquaintances who did. The reason I am so loud on SDN about what a bad idea it is to go there is that I have seen people's lives and dreams crushed in real time by going there. Imma keep trying to warn people. I tried to warn the people that I knew IRL, and wasn't listened to. Now the one girl will not even speak with me because she is so bitter to find out that what I told her was true.

Before she went, she kind of mocked me for "going about it the hard way..." and taking the pre-reqs and studying for the MCAT. She felt like she'd found a back door, that she was smarter than people who didn't know about her short cut. So, when she came back and was a few tens of thousands into debt and was lucky to get back the $13/hr lab tech job that she'd left. I can't imagine facing that much debt on that little income, AND knowing that I'd blown my shot at ever following my dreams. So, I never give her crap or told her "I told you so." She has it bad enough.

But I will come here and say these things as clearly and as often as I'm able, to be sure that no one else waltzes into the same trap.

I'm glad it worked for you... I really, truly am. But I'm not saying these things because I don't know what I'm talking about, but because I do. SGU may have given you a perfectly acceptable medical education... heck, maybe a really great one. But it did it on the wasted tuitions and broken hopes of a lot of people that you say you don't care about, because they shouldn't have been there anyway. Well... at least we agree on that last part.

A great post. Well said. Sorry to hear it didn't work out for your friend.

 

[Alienman52]

I can't help but feel that the stories of Caribbean that we hear are result of selection bias. Lot of reviewers tend to fall along the bi modal distribution - ones who had great experience (I suspect if they had slightly better application/strategy they would have made it to US schools anyway) or terrible experience (ones who had no business in medical schools in the first place). I think it might be nice to hear a story from students who fall in the middle of the bell curve.

Here's a story about a guy who had 260 step 1, 270 step 2 out of carrib and applied to 100+ ortho programs with only one waitlist for interview:
https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Here's a story about a guy who had 260 step 1, 270 step 2 out of carrib and applied to 100+ ortho programs with only one waitlist for interview:
https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

To be fair, while reading this it is apparent he has numerous personality issues. Also he could have matched in numerous other specialties, but basically had "I only want ortho" in the way he constructed his CV.

 

[Alienman52]

To be fair, while reading this it is apparent he has numerous personality issues. Also he could have matched in numerous other specialties, but basically had "I only want ortho" in the way he constructed his CV.

Loled pretty hard at the bolded. I would concur.

 

[YayPudding]

Here's a story about a guy who had 260 step 1, 270 step 2 out of carrib and applied to 100+ ortho programs with only one waitlist for interview:
https://milliondollarmistake.wordpress.com/

I read this awhile back and definitely smelled something fishy. He absolutely omits some major facts.

 

[Alienman52]

I read this awhile back and definitely smelled something fishy. He absolutely omits some major facts.

I would agree. Although he did get into a DO school in Cali, I was surprised that he didnt get more II. (only 1 DO, when he graduated summa cum laude) With that said, I think there is some valuable info on the clinical rotations offered by carrib schools.

 

[samac]

I was going to take a time to type out a detailed response back to him trying to burn me but @AlbinoHawk DO covered it better than I ever could in far less words. So I'm just gonna keep reading this guy defendning the carribean while everyone else shuts him down. Carry on.

 

[axiomofchoice]

Everyone wants to feel superior by denigrating some perceived inferior school. Both DO and caribbean schools have pretty low admission standards.

The negative attitude towards caribbean schools is pretty astounding, considering their educational model is identical to osteopathic schools. Cram as many people as possible into pre-clinical class rooms with little regard for subsequent clinical education. (I'm not familiar with a DO school that operates a major academic medical center)

I personally know 2 individual who failed out of SGU and graduated form a DO school - currently in residency. Anecdotal, but whatever....

An individual who has the requisite academic prowess and works hard can succeed in either.

 

[Geo16]

To be fair, while reading this it is apparent he has numerous personality issues. Also he could have matched in numerous other specialties, but basically had "I only want ortho" in the way he constructed his CV.

On a scale of 1 to 10, this is a level 10 savagery.

 

[studentdocftw]

Who cares about SGU or Ross? Trinity School of Medicine matches at 86% with an average Step I of 220.

 

[Nikj]

Everyone wants to feel superior by denigrating some perceived inferior school. Both DO and caribbean schools have pretty low admission standards.

The negative attitude towards caribbean schools is pretty astounding, considering their educational model is identical to osteopathic schools. Cram as many people as possible into pre-clinical class rooms with little regard for subsequent clinical education. (I'm not familiar with a DO school that operates a major academic medical center)

I personally know 2 individual who failed out of SGU and graduated form a DO school - currently in residency. Anecdotal, but whatever....

An individual who has the requisite academic prowess and works hard can succeed in either.

This is not accurate at all. Yes there are DO schools whose academics are questionable, but you seem to be out of touch with the standards of DO schools.

The only difference that people need to understand or know about, is the fact that Osteopathic medical schools are U.S accredited institutions, that award a U.S medical degree, enabling graduates to practice as fully licensed Physicians. The first year match rate for DO students is also well above Caribbean schools, and getting closer every year to the MD rate.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Everyone wants to feel superior by denigrating some perceived inferior school. Both DO and caribbean schools have pretty low admission standards.

The negative attitude towards caribbean schools is pretty astounding, considering their educational model is identical to osteopathic schools. Cram as many people as possible into pre-clinical class rooms with little regard for subsequent clinical education. (I'm not familiar with a DO school that operates a major academic medical center)

I personally know 2 individual who failed out of SGU and graduated form a DO school - currently in residency. Anecdotal, but whatever....

An individual who has the requisite academic prowess and works hard can succeed in either.

Oh no, I don't think highly of DO schools either. I hate saying this, but if it weren't for COCA limiting class sizes to 150 I wouldn't be surprised to see class sizes of 300 popping up left and right. However, the fact that schools are allowed 150 people is atrocious as well. I like that there is a green book certified requirement for caribbean student, and wish that DO school had a similar requirement (it doesn't mean all rotations have to be green book, but at least rotations like IM, surgery, or OB should be). However, I could see multiple ways that DO schools could botch this up.

However, the n=2 example you gave in fact proves my point in that DO schools try to retain their students. For instance there are DO schools with MCAT averages of 25 and Ross has an MCAT average of 24, yet most DO schools graduate more than 90% of their classes while Ross only graduate around 75%. This is why I say not all DO graduates could succeed in the caribbean.

 

[Alienman52]

This is not accurate at all. Yes there are DO schools whose academics are questionable, but you seem to be out of touch with the standards of DO schools.

The only difference that people need to understand or know about, is the fact that Osteopathic medical schools are U.S accredited institutions, that award a U.S medical degree, enabling graduates to practice as fully licensed Physicians. The first year match rate for DO students is also well above Caribbean schools, and getting closer every year to the MD rate.

Thanks for commenting on this, you beat me to it.

Everyone wants to feel superior by denigrating some perceived inferior school. Both DO and caribbean schools have pretty low admission standards.

The negative attitude towards caribbean schools is pretty astounding, considering their educational model is identical to osteopathic schools. Cram as many people as possible into pre-clinical class rooms with little regard for subsequent clinical education. (I'm not familiar with a DO school that operates a major academic medical center)

I personally know 2 individual who failed out of SGU and graduated form a DO school - currently in residency. Anecdotal, but whatever....

An individual who has the requisite academic prowess and works hard can succeed in either.

I would agree that DO MCAT averages are a bit on the low side, but the average GPA for a matriculant in 2015 was ~3.55. Not quite sure what your standards are, but a 3.55 isn't "pretty low," IMO.

 

[pseud0]

Another Jealous DO Student that can't stand it when an SGU Student achieves a residency and can retain an MD Status

"gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8 out of 8"

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Everyone wants to feel superior by denigrating some perceived inferior school. Both DO and caribbean schools have pretty low admission standards.

The negative attitude towards caribbean schools is pretty astounding, considering their educational model is identical to osteopathic schools. Cram as many people as possible into pre-clinical class rooms with little regard for subsequent clinical education. (I'm not familiar with a DO school that operates a major academic medical center)

I personally know 2 individual who failed out of SGU and graduated form a DO school - currently in residency. Anecdotal, but whatever....

An individual who has the requisite academic prowess and works hard can succeed in either.

The average GPA for DO is a 3.5 and an MCAT in at least the 50th percentile. This "low standard" is higher than almost any other graduate program including most professional degrees (e.g. DVM, DMD, JD, etc.). Most MD schools have an average of 3.7 and about the 70th percentile; these are not exactly earth shattering differences.

I don't see anyone trying to feel superior to anyone else. Most of us are just saying caribbean is a bad gamble for your prospects of practicing as a physician.

 

[Alienman52]

The average GPA for DO is a 3.5 and an MCAT in at least the 50th percentile. This "low standard" is higher than almost any other graduate program including most professional degrees (e.g. DVM, DMD, JD, etc.). Most MD schools have an average of 3.7 and about the 70th percentile; these are not exactly earth shattering differences.

I don't see anyone trying to feel superior to anyone else. Most of us are just saying caribbean is a bad gamble for your prospects of practicing as a physician.

Well said. I was looking at the data last night from AACOMAS and average GPA for matriculants in 2015 was ~3.53. I honestly don't think that a 3.53 is "pretty low...."


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[Favoritefarm]

Well said. I was looking at the data last night from AACOMAS and average GPA for matriculants in 2015 was ~3.53. I honestly don't think that a 3.53 is "pretty low...."


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Except every preDO or DO student loves to leave the very small fact out that the 3.53 you are quoting is artifically increased because of grade replacement. If it wasnt for grade replacement, is that average closer to 3.0? 3.1? I dont know the answer to that and i dont think anyone does but we know for sure that it is NOT 3.53. We nay see the true average GPA in 10 years though.

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[Alienman52]

Except every preDO or DO student loves to leave the very small fact out that the 3.53 you are quoting is artifically increased because of grade replacement. If it wasnt for grade replacement, is that average closer to 3.0? 3.1? I dont know the answer to that and i dont think anyone does but we know for sure that it is NOT 3.53. We nay see the true average GPA in 10 years though.

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You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Except every preDO or DO student loves to leave the very small fact out that the 3.53 you are quoting is artifically increased because of grade replacement.

Apart from your misspelling of the word artificially, people work their butts off to repair their GPA. It's not, "artificial," replacement.

If it wasnt for grade replacement, is that average closer to 3.0? 3.1? I dont know the answer to that and i dont think anyone does but we know for sure that it is NOT 3.53.

You stated one thing that was correct, and it was that you don't know the true mean GPA. I would agree that it might be be lower than 3.53, but now with grade replacement gone I don't see how the mean would change. 3.53 with a standard deviation of 0.29 (you can check my SD from the AACOMAS 2015 matriculants/applicant report) is a very solid DO range. What's going to happen is that the people who had a 3.4-3.5 without grade replacement and an MCAT in the DO range will end up going to.....wait for it...DO school. The only thing that removing the grade replacement policy will do is keep those with bad undergrad grades out for good.

We nay see the true average GPA in 10 years though.

Seriously? 10 years? We'll begin to see what the average is after this coming cycle, and the next. It won't take 10 years to discern what a new mean GPA will be. It's like the new MCAT. When it first came out, 499 was ~50th percentile.....and it still is. The new mean GPA for the 2017-2018 cycle will be x.xx, and will most likely stay within a SD of .1-.15.

P.S. Are you a medical student? Pre-med? Looks like you're new here taking a look at your post count so please use your posts wisely instead of bashing a profession you know nothing about. I'm not saying carrib is a terrible option, but D.O. is always better.

Would you suggest that the carrib averages are higher? I would think not. In other words your post was pointless.

 

[Nikj]

Except every preDO or DO student loves to leave the very small fact out that the 3.53 you are quoting is artifically increased because of grade replacement. If it wasnt for grade replacement, is that average closer to 3.0? 3.1? I dont know the answer to that and i dont think anyone does but we know for sure that it is NOT 3.53. We nay see the true average GPA in 10 years though.

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AACOMAS just did away with grade replacement, so we will see after the next cycle what the numbers show. You keep talking about the inferiority of DO students with skewed facts, but at the end of the day, going to an osteopathic medical school is drastically better than any Caribbean school for obtaining a residency.

 

[pseud0]

The numbers will show the same GPA averages after they get rid of grade replacement. They'll just drop all the grade replacement candidates with great ECs and interviews in favor of non grade-replacement candidates who meet the gpa but might have worse ECs and interviews. If this isn't the case I will eat my hat. They get enough applicants.

 

[Alienman52]

AACOMAS just did away with grade replacement, so we will see after the next cycle what the numbers show. You keep talking about the inferiority of DO students with skewed facts, but at the end of the day, going to an osteopathic medical school is drastically better than any Caribbean school for obtaining a residency.

Well said.

The numbers will show the same GPA averages after they get rid of grade replacement. They'll just drop all the grade replacement candidates with great ECs and interviews in favor of non grade-replacement candidates who meet the gpa but might have worse ECs and interviews. If this isn't the case I will eat my hat. They get enough applicants.

This is exactly what will happen. Among 20,447 apps that AACOMAS got in 2015, and among the 6,683 matriculants, it's hard to believe that people don't think that schools have a hard time picking between a whole bunch of qualified applicants. There are so many absolutely qualified people (without any grade replacement) that get turned down. Now those people will be ahead.

 

[Favoritefarm]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.


Apart from your misspelling of the word artificially, people work their butts off to repair their GPA. It's not, "artificial," replacement.


You stated one thing that was correct, and it was that you don't know the true mean GPA. I would agree that it might be be lower than 3.53, but now with grade replacement gone I don't see how the mean would change. 3.53 with a standard deviation of 0.29 (you can check my SD from the AACOMAS 2015 matriculants/applicant report) is a very solid DO range. What's going to happen is that the people who had a 3.4-3.5 without grade replacement and an MCAT in the DO range will end up going to.....wait for it...DO school. The only thing that removing the grade replacement policy will do is keep those with bad undergrad grades out for good.


Seriously? 10 years? We'll begin to see what the average is after this coming cycle, and the next. It won't take 10 years to discern what a new mean GPA will be. It's like the new MCAT. When it first came out, 499 was ~50th percentile.....and it still is. The new mean GPA for the 2017-2018 cycle will be x.xx, and will most likely stay within a SD of .1-.15.

P.S. Are you a medical student? Pre-med? Looks like you're new here taking a look at your post count so please use your posts wisely instead of bashing a profession you know nothing about. I'm not saying carrib is a terrible option, but D.O. is always better.

Would you suggest that the carrib averages are higher? I would think not. In other words your post was pointless.

Im sorry little guy. I am an orthopedic surgical resident at a top academic institution and I get busy actually taking care of patients so i kinda rush spelling things on the internet. I totally forgot that mispelling werds on an anonimus enternet forim completly invalidtes everytng i saye. Everything i said makes sense. You may not like it cuz u workd ur butt off to repair your gpa but its still the truth.

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[Alienman52]

Im sorry little guy. I am an orthopedic surgical resident at a top academic institution and I get busy actually taking care of patients so i kinda rush spelling things on the internet. I totally forgot that mispelling werds on an anonimus enternet forim completly invalidtes everytng i saye. Everything i said makes sense. You may not like it cuz u workd ur butt off to repair your gpa but its still the truth.

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Oh so you're an orthopedic surgery resident who doesn't know what she's talking about. Thanks for clarifying.

I didn't use grade replacement for my acceptance.

Edit: I still don't see the point of your post. The topic was If a DO student could succeed in a carrib curriculum, not make a pointless post about DO grade replacement. There are plenty of other threads to comment on what you think might happen without grade replacement, but here is not the place.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

Except every preDO or DO student loves to leave the very small fact out that the 3.53 you are quoting is artifically increased because of grade replacement. If it wasnt for grade replacement, is that average closer to 3.0? 3.1? I dont know the answer to that and i dont think anyone does but we know for sure that it is NOT 3.53. We nay see the true average GPA in 10 years though.

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In the document getting rid of grade replacement they state that according to detailed analysis of GPAs that getting rid of grade replacement will impact average GPA by .03. So 3.53 becomes 3.5....

Get a verified physician badge and then maybe I (and everyone else) will believe you're an orthopedic surgery resident.

 

[Alienman52]

In the document getting rid of grade replacement they state that according to detailed analysis of GPAs that getting rid of grade replacement will impact average GPA by .03. So 3.53 becomes 3.5....

Get a verified physician badge and then maybe I (and everyone else) will believe you're an orthopedic surgery resident.

I remember reading something like that on another forum. Would you happen to have the document on hand to link? I'd love to give it a full read. Is it available on their website?


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[AlbinoHawk DO]

Except every preDO or DO student loves to leave the very small fact out that the 3.53 you are quoting is artifically increased because of grade replacement. If it wasnt for grade replacement, is that average closer to 3.0? 3.1? I dont know the answer to that and i dont think anyone does but we know for sure that it is NOT 3.53. We nay see the true average GPA in 10 years though.

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We'll see exactly one year from now. If the reports are correct, grade replacement accounts for 0.03 GPA points, so prepare yourself for the inevitable embarrassment.

 

[Alienman52]

We'll see exactly one year from now. If the reports are correct, grade replacement accounts for 0.03 GPA points, so prepare yourself for the inevitable embarrassment.

I'd like to read these reports actually. Do you have them on hand? Are they available on the AACOMAS site??


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[AlbinoHawk DO]

I'd like to read these reports actually. Do you have them on hand? Are they available on the AACOMAS site??


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I don't have them. Someone posted about them in the Osteo med student forum.

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

What FM, IM and PEDS. Same as SGU. But I have an MD Title

Some wonder "who would be fooled Caribbean admissions sale pitches?" and we have an example of one right here. They fail to realize that anyone who is equally thirsty for superficial prestige and turning their nose up at US trained doctors with a DO, is also going to vomit when they realize that MD is really a caribbean school MD. Kind of like if one of these island nations built an undergrad and named it Harvard, the piece of paper they give you might say Harvard but those ivy chasers will know its a fake. But I'm sure it gives those that didn't match an edge when applying for part-time junior college instructing and "consultant" jobs.

 

[W19]

The average GPA for DO is a 3.5 and an MCAT in at least the 50th percentile. This "low standard" is higher than almost any other graduate program including most professional degrees (e.g. DVM, DMD, JD, etc.). Most MD schools have an average of 3.7 and about the 70th percentile; these are not exactly earth shattering differences.

I don't see anyone trying to feel superior to anyone else. Most of us are just saying caribbean is a bad gamble for your prospects of practicing as a physician.

I think the standard for DO and DMD/DDS is about the same, but I got your point though. Arguing with a Caribbean student is usually a waste of energy anyway; these people always try to justify their poor judgement...

 

[pseud0]

Some wonder "who would be fooled Caribbean admissions sale pitches?" and we have an example of one right here. They fail to realize that anyone who is equally thirsty for superficial prestige and turning their nose up at US trained doctors with a DO, is also going to vomit when they realize that MD is really a caribbean school MD. Kind of like if one of these island nations built an undergrad and named it Harvard, the piece of paper they give you might say Harvard but those ivy chasers will know its a fake. But I'm sure it gives those that didn't match an edge when applying for part-time junior college instructing and "consultant" jobs.

Extreme Savagery

 

[Favoritefarm]

I have a honest question.

Why is SDN so cool with bashing caribbean MD? But they get up in arms when anyone even hints at anything negative about DO? Isnt it a double standard?

Can someone explain why one is OK (and encouraged) and the other is a ban?

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[Alienman52]

I have a honest question.

Why is SDN so cool with bashing caribbean MD? But they get up in arms when anyone even hints at anything negative about DO? Isnt it a double standard?

Can someone explain why one is OK (and encouraged) and the other is a ban?

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We're simply saying that DO is a better option. (Or at least I am.) I just get upset when people who don't know what they're talking about say that DO isn't a better option.


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Edit: Also, you're in a pre-osteo forum.

 

[pseud0]

I have a honest question.

Why is SDN so cool with bashing caribbean MD? But they get up in arms when anyone even hints at anything negative about DO? Isnt it a double standard?

Can someone explain why one is OK (and encouraged) and the other is a ban?

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no.
With Carib you spend more money, have to live in a 3rd world country for 2 years, have the administration basically want you to fail, and have like an 80 percent chance of practicing as a doctor

with DO you get to stay where you are, spend less money, have an administration trying to see you succeed, and have like a 99 percent chance of practicing as a doctor.

edit: and that 80 percent isn't even known for sure. It's probably less at some schools

 

[Favoritefarm]

We're simply saying that DO is a better option. (Or at least I am.) I just get upset when people who don't know what they're talking about say that DO isn't a better option.


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Edit: Also, you're in a pre-osteo forum.

You may but "diploma mills" and certification for janitorial jobs are some of the things said just in this thread about caribbean md schools. I just think there is a double standard and would appreciate if someone can explain it to me because the default is that SDN pushes their agenda and then bans people that say anything different. That seems like the opposite of what the internet, online disucssion forums and this country stands for. I would appreciate any intelligible responses. Thanks.

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[Staphylococcus Aureus]

I have a honest question.

Why is SDN so cool with bashing caribbean MD? But they get up in arms when anyone even hints at anything negative about DO? Isnt it a double standard?

Can someone explain why one is OK (and encouraged) and the other is a ban?

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Because students who've been lied to by caribbean recruiters come to SDN and ask for advice. To shout over the carib schools' propaganda and carib student posters with frail egos, it usually ends up coming out as bashing. I've never heard of someone being banned for criticizing DO programs, the osteo forum is often dominated by criticism.

 

[Wjldenver]

You may but "diploma mills" and certification for janitorial jobs are some of the things said just in this thread about caribbean md schools. I just think there is a double standard and would appreciate if someone can explain it to me because the default is that SDN pushes their agenda and then bans people that say anything different. That seems like the opposite of what the internet, online disucssion forums and this country stands for. I would appreciate any intelligible responses. Thanks.

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If you made it through the Caribbean gauntlet, and got a U.S. residency, particularly in a specialty, you get a bow from me. I just would not recommend that route to any potential students I run across. I think Caribbean students/grads get flack for perceived poor decision making. (i.e., Valuing a potential MD degree over a DO degree while negating the perceived risks.) That certainly is a route I would not sign up for, but kudos to you for surviving it. ...Now if you get on SDN, and make derogatory statements back to DO students and grads about how your international MD degree is superior, you will lose my support for that particular argument.

 

[Favoritefarm]

I am not asking why DO is better than caribbean MD or vise versa. Its just that bashing caribbean is tolerated and encouraged, even by certain self described adcoms on this forum, but if anything negative is said about a DO program, even if its true, it is deleted or the user is banned.

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[Alienman52]

I am not asking why DO is better than caribbean MD or vise versa. Its just that bashing caribbean is tolerated and encouraged, even by certain self described adcoms on this forum, but if anything negative is said about a DO program, even if its true, it is deleted or the user is banned.

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The osteo and pre-osteo forums are literally seas of criticism. Topics vary from which residencies are locked out from DOs, to older US MDs still looking down upon US DOs. As a future DO student, I take the criticism and live with it, because a lot of it is true. Some not, but some is. SDN just chooses to criticize options that are not as good as others, and so when carrib schools come up, you can expect that they'd get 2-3x as much criticism as a US DO degree would.


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[Wjldenver]

I am not asking why DO is better than caribbean MD or vise versa. Its just that bashing caribbean is tolerated and encouraged, even by certain self described adcoms on this forum, but if anything negative is said about a DO program, even if its true, it is deleted or the user is banned.

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The answer to that question is simple. The Caribbean schools are for profit entities and they use misleading advertising and placement statistics to lure students. You've heard of predatory lenders right? These Caribbean schools are predatory educational institutions. You know why, I don't have to explain that to you. You've lived it and saw many MD wannabes get destroyed by that business model. Goro and many other people on this site (including me) try to steer students away from the Caribbean schools for that very reason.

 

[Favoritefarm]

So what i am hearing is that caribbean MD schools are for sure horrible choices to get a good medical education and so SDN has a responsibility to protect future applicants to those schools?

Forgive me but are there students that graduate caribbean MD and go on to become doctors? Are all those that bash caribbean MD schools graduates, students or ex students of said schools and have firsthand knowledge giving them credibility?

It seems most that bash caribeean MDs are students, and in the case of some self proclaimed adcoms, just persons (not students) that have not gone to a caribbean MD school. And it seems like most then are giving their opinion about caribeean schools.

In that same regard, it should be just as tolerable (and encouraged) for users to give their opinion on DO programs and the future of those applicants based on ther interpretaton of the data. heresay, and experience of others they hear about.

My example. When i was a medical student on a subI, i heard the program director of the vascular surgery fellowship say that anytime he gets an application frm a DO graduate, he throws it away. My conclusiom based on that experience and similar stories is that if you go to a DO program you are,in my eyes, at a hige disadvantage when competmg for surgical reaidencies and fellowships. That post got deleted.

I do not get the rationale.

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