Could you do trade night shifts for swing shifts?

[pprbckwrtr]

Wondering which is more disliked, swing shifts or night shifts. If you were to go into EM, could you make a deal for majority swing shifts in order to avoid overnights?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Angry Birds]

Wondering which is more disliked, swing shifts or night shifts. If you were to go into EM, could you make a deal for majority swing shifts in order to avoid overnights?

By swing shifts, do you mean evening shifts?

Personally, I hate the evening shifts the most, and would much rather do the overnights. With this preference in mind, I was definitely able to swap evening shifts for nights... Eventually, I just decided to become a nocturnist.

However, although you could get out of evening shifts by opting for night shifts, I doubt you could get it the other way around, unless your shop has nocturnists like myself (in which case you'd only be doing mornings and evenings). However, you'd have to have enough nocturnists to eliminate nights altogether for the rest of the group. I assume this is on the rarer side.

It seems to me that the hatred of evening shifts is not widely shared, and more people hate nights than evenings.

 

[pprbckwrtr]

By swing shifts, do you mean evening shifts?

Personally, I hate the evening shifts the most, and would much rather do the overnights. With this preference in mind, I was definitely able to swap evening shifts for nights... Eventually, I just decided to become a nocturnist.

However, although you could get out of evening shifts by opting for night shifts, I doubt you could get it the other way around, unless your shop has nocturnists like myself (in which case you'd only be doing mornings and evenings). However, you'd have to have enough nocturnists to eliminate nights altogether for the rest of the group. I assume this is on the rarer side.

It seems to me that the hatred of evening shifts is not widely shared, and more people hate nights than evenings.

Yeah that's what worries me. I'm actually a bit of a night owl (sharper in the evenings) and wouldn't mind working till 2/3 am, but the evidence for overnight shifts (like till 7/8 am) being bad for your health and whatnot worries me.

 

[pprbckwrtr]

Also, to clarify, I would totally not worry about it, but as far as I understand it's supposed to be a risk factor for cardio disease, and my dad had a heart attack when he was way too young, so that worries me more than it would most people.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Also, to clarify, I would totally not worry about it, but as far as I understand it's supposed to be a risk factor for cardio disease, and my dad had a heart attack when he was way too young, so that worries me more than it would most people.

All facts. Maybe EM isnt for you. As mentioned above some groups have noctunists, others have a night program. There is no way to get out of nights in residency but as an attending there are options including some VA jobs where they shut the “ED” down at 10pm.

If the VA isnt your cup of tea I would pick a job with nocturnists or you as the new guy will be thrown into nights.

Frankly, this would require you to be flexible on where you live. in the end if this is a huge deal for you I would advise you not go into EM. Maybe thats harsh but as someone who is involved in hiring this would be a huge red flag and I wouldn’t hire you if this was brought up. Maybe I’m mean. Nights, weekends and holidays are what suck about EM.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

You can make you schedule if you work locums or prn. There are many groups that have nocturnists. You can have some variety in EM.

 

[deleted497653]

There are groups that have an earlier night shift and a later night shift. Earlier meaning 6p-2a or 7p-3a and later nights 10p-6a or 11p -8a. Another consideration is to be a part time employee then you will work less of every shift including nights and then pick up another source of income where you will work only days and evenings i.e two part time jobs. You could do locums but traveling for work seems unstable for someone with a young family...so... chances are you will just have to do some nights. I know someone who has several part time gigs and is an independent contractor, just for that reason, so they don't have to work nights! To be honest, it sucks to work after him because he just doesn't see a lot of patients and the rest of us have to take up the slack.

Lastly, you could take an admin role as a medical director...doesn't happen straight out of residency....back to ...you have to do nights unless you have nocturnists and they take vacations too, so you will do some nights.

 

[EctopicFetus]

You can make you schedule if you work locums or prn. There are many groups that have nocturnists. You can have some variety in EM.

These options are often not local and require travel or to be lucky enough that there is a setup like this locally and it will likely pay less. My 2 cents is that I would rather work less overall, make more money etc. Then I can retire when I want at that point I can pay people to work my nights. All I will need is my market returns to keep on churning.

 

[thegenius]

Wondering which is more disliked, swing shifts or night shifts. If you were to go into EM, could you make a deal for majority swing shifts in order to avoid overnights?

I think it really depends on a lot of factors (getting paid hourly vs RVU, how busy it is, how good the nurses are, what kind of support you have, etc.)

I work at multiple hospitals and I would rather work nights at one but not the other. Two very different experiences.

 

[thegenius]

Also, to clarify, I would totally not worry about it, but as far as I understand it's supposed to be a risk factor for cardio disease, and my dad had a heart attack when he was way too young, so that worries me more than it would most people.

I think if you work ~13-14 shifts a month, and 1-2 of them are night shifts with adequate time off, it's probably not a big risk factor. I'm just pulling this out of my arse, but it's not that bad.

 

[Arcan57]

I think if you work ~13-14 shifts a month, and 1-2 of them are night shifts with adequate time off, it's probably not a big risk factor. I'm just pulling this out of my arse, but it's not that bad.

1-2 nights out of 13-14 shifts is not a typical distribution. It’s possible, but by no means the default.

 

[turkeyjerky]

1-2 nights out of 13-14 shifts is not a typical distribution. It’s possible, but by no means the default.

Yeah. Typical would be 3-4, and in lower volume shops maybe even 5-7.

I would say that,in my group of 10 docs, nobody prefers overnights to evenings and only 2 (with one of them being an older person who works part time and has an outside business which occupies most of her time and requires working 8-5) actively dislikes the evening shifts. About half actually prefer evenings to early mornings

 

[Angry Birds]

Yeah. Typical would be 3-4, and in lower volume shops maybe even 5-7.

I would say that,in my group of 10 docs, nobody prefers overnights to evenings and only 2 (with one of them being an older person who works part time and has an outside business which occupies most of her time and requires working 8-5) actively dislikes the evening shifts. About half actually prefer evenings to early mornings

Good to know for my future bargainign as a nocturnist

 

[Perrin]

In my group, swings are more disliked, but we have a set of nocturnists that cover most night shifts. After a few years at my shop, I talked with our scheduler. I offered to work mostly swing shift and a few nights. She was more than happy to accommodate. I haven't worked a day shift in 3 years. Most of the swing shifts star between 2p and 5p and end from 11p and 2a. There's no traffic going in or coming home. I'm in the ED when most of our volume, MVCs and shootings/stabbing come in, which helps the shift go by faster. If I need to run errands, I get up a little earlier. It's easier for me to transition from a swing shift to a night shift than a day shift to a night shift.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Yeah. Typical would be 3-4, and in lower volume shops maybe even 5-7.

ouch

 

[WilcoWorld]

In my group, swings are more disliked, but we have a set of nocturnists that cover most night shifts. After a few years at my shop, I talked with our scheduler. I offered to work mostly swing shift and a few nights. She was more than happy to accommodate. I haven't worked a day shift in 3 years. Most of the swing shifts star between 2p and 5p and end from 11p and 2a. There's no traffic going in or coming home. I'm in the ED when most of our volume, MVCs and shootings/stabbing come in, which helps the shift go by faster. If I need to run errands, I get up a little earlier. It's easier for me to transition from a swing shift to a night shift than a day shift to a night shift.

I think it really depends on a lot of factors (getting paid hourly vs RVU, how busy it is, how good the nurses are, what kind of support you have, etc.)

I work at multiple hospitals and I would rather work nights at one but not the other. Two very different experiences.

I agree, bad turn-arounds are what will kill you, not necessarily the "type" of shift.

It's funny, I dread overnights on my calendar, but most of the time they end up being a bit fun. Swing shifts look good on the calendar, but if I bang my head against a keyboard, it's probably going to be during a swing shift.

 

[Perrin]

I agree, bad turn-arounds are what will kill you, not necessarily the "type" of shift.

It's funny, I dread overnights on my calendar, but most of the time they end up being a bit fun. Swing shifts look good on the calendar, but if I bang my head against a keyboard, it's probably going to be during a swing shift.

My schedule person is pretty good about organizing everything. Start out with 2-11pm shift, next is a 5p-2a, then a 10p- 7a. It works for me making the transition.

 

[Hercules]

Good to know for my future bargainign as a nocturnist

It’s through the roof. We have a $50/hr shift differential for nights and no one is willing to pick up an extra one.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[miacomet]

It’s through the roof. We have a $50/hr shift differential for nights and no one is willing to pick up an extra one.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Just received a job offer with a $100 an hour night differential. Nice part of the country, too.

WCI's group does it right- they keep increasing the night differential until people want the shifts. I agree $50 an hour is rarely enough. Another group in my area offers a 1.5x weekend night differential- they have no problem filling shifts. You just need to keep increasing the differential until people want nights. Otherwise discontent reigns, as in my group.

 

[RoyBasch]

Otherwise discontent reigns, as in my group.

Sounds about right.