Couples Match- My interesting dilemma

[DoctorAP28]

So I'm thinking of doing the couples match, but with my brother and from what I read it is possible. But I only want to do it if it will strengthen our chances. We are both interested in Emergency medicine and IM. My step 1 score is a 225 Step 2 262. His step 1 is 247 and step 2 is 250.

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[DoctorAP28]

Also should add that this is for next years match

 

[deleted480308]

couples match does not increase your chances of matching, it just allows you to rank with their list in mind.....you still have the exact same odds of matching (unless one of you puts a "no match" spot in the combined list and then that person's odds drop)

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

If one of you is disliked or weaker than it could sabotage the stronger candidate's shot at matching at a program

 

[mvenus929]

If you rank every single combination, there is the same likelihood of you matching independently. However, you could end up at a program lower on both of your lists because of the couple component.

 

[URHere]

It's my understanding that your chances of matching are only the same as they would be for you as an independent applicant if at the end of your rank list you include all of your programs paired with a "no match" option for your partner. This would be fine except that it would be a crappy thing not to reciprocate - if any of your combinations have a "no match" option for you, and they aren't at the very bottom of the list, you could very well end up with a scenario where the other person matches and you don't, even if you could have matched as an independent applicant.

On the other hand, I do have several friends who have gotten invites from programs that should have been out of their league, simply because they were couples matching with someone who was a superstar.

Overall, probably not worth risking it to couples match with a sibling unless you need to live together for some reason (taking care of a sick relative together, twins who can't fathom being apart, etc)

 

[gutonc]

So I'm thinking of doing the couples match, but with my brother and from what I read it is possible. But I only want to do it if it will strengthen our chances. We are both interested in Emergency medicine and IM. My step 1 score is a 225 Step 2 262. His step 1 is 247 and step 2 is 250.

It will increase your chances of matching at the same program or in the same city but will not (generally) change your overall chances of matching or allow one of you to bring the other one up in program quality.

The instances where someone couples matching gets better interviews than they might otherwise are going to be reserved for their match partner being an actual partner, and where one of them is a superstar.

 

[DoctorAP28]

It will increase your chances of matching at the same program or in the same city but will not (generally) change your overall chances of matching or allow one of you to bring the other one up in program quality.

The instances where someone couples matching gets better interviews than they might otherwise are going to be reserved for their match partner being an actual partner, and where one of them is a superstar.

Thanks everyone for the responses. Does it matter that my step 1 was worse than his. Or my Step 2 was better than his? I just don't want the couples match to decrease our chances of matching. I'm willing to do it otherwise. And yes we are twins and I feel like we would excel more so in residency if we worked together as stupid as that may sound haha.

 

[DoctorAP28]

If one of you is disliked or weaker than it could sabotage the stronger candidate's shot at matching at a program

Would you view one of us as weaker based on our scores?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It will increase your chances of matching at the same program or in the same city but will not (generally) change your overall chances of matching or allow one of you to bring the other one up in program quality.

The instances where someone couples matching gets better interviews than they might otherwise are going to be reserved for their match partner being an actual partner, and where one of them is a superstar.

To add to gutonc's comments, many programs might consider this behavior very weird. People will want to know why you are couple's matching with a sibling, and the number of "good" answers are limited. "One of us is weaker and we figured this would help them match" isn't one of them. "I can't imagine being apart from my sibling" isn't one either. In fact, I have difficulty coming up with anything that doesn't ring my weird alarm. Needing to be near parents for health or other issues usually restricts geography, although I guess if they were to move with you, that might make some sense -- but even in that case, some programs might pass on you for the complexity of your home situation.

Bottom line: there is no dilemma here. Do not do this.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Unless you are so co-dependent on your twin that you are unable to exist in residency without him/her by your side in the same city, this is probably a bad idea and definitely will not HELP you match anywhere. Most likely you will both end up at slightly weaker programs to end up in the same city, and that's if PDs aren't weirded out by your decision to couples match with a sibling of yours.

 

[rokshana]

To add to gutonc's comments, many programs might consider this behavior very weird. People will want to know why you are couple's matching with a sibling, and the number of "good" answers are limited. "One of us is weaker and we figured this would help them match" isn't one of them. "I can't imagine being apart from my sibling" isn't one either. In fact, I have difficulty coming up with anything that doesn't ring my weird alarm. Needing to be near parents for health or other issues usually restricts geography, although I guess if they were to move with you, that might make some sense -- but even in that case, some programs might pass on you for the complexity of your home situation.

Bottom line: there is no dilemma here. Do not do this.

but how do the programs know they are couples matching (remember they are trying for 2 different specialties) unless they tell the programs?

 

[DoctorAP28]

To add to gutonc's comments, many programs might consider this behavior very weird. People will want to know why you are couple's matching with a sibling, and the number of "good" answers are limited. "One of us is weaker and we figured this would help them match" isn't one of them. "I can't imagine being apart from my sibling" isn't one either. In fact, I have difficulty coming up with anything that doesn't ring my weird alarm. Needing to be near parents for health or other issues usually restricts geography, although I guess if they were to move with you, that might make some sense -- but even in that case, some programs might pass on you for the complexity of your home situation.

Bottom line: there is no dilemma here. Do not do this.

But what if we were to say we excel when we are together, as our board scores could show? I actually honestly believe we actually bring each others performance up.

 

[DoctorAP28]

And to add I don't think its weird for twins who went to college and medical school together, to want to match in the same residency. It seems like a fairly legitimate thing to do, but if you guys honestly think its a bad idea and will decrease our shot at matching, then I'll steer clear of it.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

And to add I don't think its weird for twins who went to college and medical school together, to want to match in the same residency. It seems like a fairly legitimate thing to do, but if you guys honestly think its a bad idea and will decrease our shot at matching, then I'll steer clear of it.

Talk to your Dean and Home PD/PDs and get their 2 cents. Don't go off what folks here say. Go and get it straight from the horses' mouths. Both of your stats look fine, but I don't know what your other grades, CV, and interview skills are like.

 

[gutonc]

But what if we were to say we excel when we are together, as our board scores could show? I actually honestly believe we actually bring each others performance up.

Your board scores show nothing of the sort. If anything, they show that you bring your brother's "clinical" performance down.

And to add I don't think its weird for twins who went to college and medical school together, to want to match in the same residency. It seems like a fairly legitimate thing to do, but if you guys honestly think its a bad idea and will decrease our shot at matching, then I'll steer clear of it.

It's weird as hell, and you'll be hard pressed to find people on the interview trail (PDs, residents, applicants, janitors) who don't think that way. But whatever, it's your life. Also, it's not like you're going to fly under the radar with PDs on this either, assuming you both wind up applying to the same specialty (which is not in any way clear from your OP).

Here's the thing about couple's matching that you probably don't know though...nobody but you has to know that you're doing it. Recognize that telling programs that you're doing this is likely not going to score either of you any interviews that you wouldn't otherwise get (and bringing it up is going to put you back in the "weird as hell" loop). Leave that part out of it. But when it comes time to make your rank lists, go ahead and couples match if you're so inclined. Just be sure that you rank every possible combination of programs so that you both match, no matter what. To do this, once you get done with all the program/city matches you have, you will continue the list as such:
My program 1:Brother's program A
My program 1:Brother's program B
My program 1:Brother's program ....
My program 2:Brother's program A
My program 2:Brother's program B
My program 2:Brother's program ....
My program X:Brother's program A....

He will do the converse. Your rank list will be a total clusterf*** and you'll probably mess it up quite honestly. But if you don't, you should be fine.

There's still a non-zero chance of not matching in this scenario, but it's pretty low unless one of you is a total sociopath.

 

[J ROD]

I would apply separately. But apply to same programs. And then rank the same places in same order. Might not get together but I would not go into a couple match with a sibling.

You got to cut the cord sometime. I would not take either of you if you need the other one that much. I know several twins that function in life apart.

 

[deleted480308]

And to add I don't think its weird for twins who went to college and medical school together, to want to match in the same residency. It seems like a fairly legitimate thing to do, but if you guys honestly think its a bad idea and will decrease our shot at matching, then I'll steer clear of it.

Nope, it's weird to couples match with a sibling. You not seein that makes it weirder

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Nope, it's weird to couples match with a sibling. You not seein that makes it weirder

Is it weird if they share a bed when bringing a girl home?

 

[J ROD]

Is it weird if they share a bed when bringing a girl home?

if they put the condoms on each other

 

[DoctorAP28]

Hahaha thanks for the greant input and the jokes. What I mean to say is I don't see a problem with us going to the same residency program, and if the "couples" match helps that I don't see a problem.

 

[DoctorAP28]

Your board scores show nothing of the sort. If anything, they show that you bring your brother's "clinical" performance down.


It's weird as hell, and you'll be hard pressed to find people on the interview trail (PDs, residents, applicants, janitors) who don't think that way. But whatever, it's your life. Also, it's not like you're going to fly under the radar with PDs on this either, assuming you both wind up applying to the same specialty (which is not in any way clear from your OP).

Here's the thing about couple's matching that you probably don't know though...nobody but you has to know that you're doing it. Recognize that telling programs that you're doing this is likely not going to score either of you any interviews that you wouldn't otherwise get (and bringing it up is going to put you back in the "weird as hell" loop). Leave that part out of it. But when it comes time to make your rank lists, go ahead and couples match if you're so inclined. Just be sure that you rank every possible combination of programs so that you both match, no matter what. To do this, once you get done with all the program/city matches you have, you will continue the list as such:
My program 1:Brother's program A
My program 1:Brother's program B
My program 1:Brother's program ....
My program 2:Brother's program A
My program 2:Brother's program B
My program 2:Brother's program ....
My program X:Brother's program A....

He will do the converse. Your rank list will be a total clusterf*** and you'll probably mess it up quite honestly. But if you don't, you should be fine.

There's still a non-zero chance of not matching in this scenario, but it's pretty low unless one of you is a total sociopath.

Thanks for the brutally honest opinion, Ill take it all in to consideration and no we are not sociopaths. It would also just make things easier for our parents, but ideally if we get in to the same state it shouldn't be much of a problem.

 

[DoctorAP28]

Talk to your Dean and Home PD/PDs and get their 2 cents. Don't go off what folks here say. Go and get it straight from the horses' mouths. Both of your stats look fine, but I don't know what your other grades, CV, and interview skills are like.

Thank you for the reply. I'll definitely talk to more people about the subject. I won't be applying to the match until next year so I still have a lot I want to do to strengthen my resume.

 

[DoctorAP28]

I would apply separately. But apply to same programs. And then rank the same places in same order. Might not get together but I would not go into a couple match with a sibling.

You got to cut the cord sometime. I would not take either of you if you need the other one that much. I know several twins that function in life apart.

We function fine apart, but if we had the choice to be in the same program or not, we'd choose the same program. We both want to do Emergency medicine first and foremost, but because it's not the most "IMG friendly" field, I put IM as a back up for now.

 

[rokshana]

And to add I don't think its weird for twins who went to college and medical school together, to want to match in the same residency. It seems like a fairly legitimate thing to do, but if you guys honestly think its a bad idea and will decrease our shot at matching, then I'll steer clear of it.

not sure you have read the posts above...NO ONE has said that is decreases your chances for matching...in fact the chances of matching are the same, you just may end up at a program lower on your list than if you had 2 separate ROL...

just read the post above me and going into the same specialty will make that more difficult...having 2 people that are linked to each other in a small program can make things difficult when it comes to scheduling or emergencies.

 

[J ROD]

We function fine apart, but if we had the choice to be in the same program or not, we'd choose the same program. We both want to do Emergency medicine first and foremost, but because it's not the most "IMG friendly" field, I put IM as a back up for now.

Based on just steps.......you need to do IM and he can take a shot at EM.

or both do IM somewhere together. I would still apply separately. Maybe couples Match to EM so he can save you.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Based on just steps.......you need to do IM and he can take a shot at EM.

or both do IM somewhere together. I would still apply separately. Maybe couples Match to EM so he can save you.

I think OPs scores should be good enough to land EM pending everything else looks good and and they apply broadly. If they're both FMG/IMG grads then that's the main limiting factor for each. I agree, IM is easier to get.

 

[J ROD]

I think OPs scores should be good enough to land EM pending everything else looks good and and they apply broadly. If they're both FMG/IMG grads then that's the main limiting factor for each. I agree, IM is easier to get.

I understood them to be IMG. So, bye bye EM for #1, chance for #2.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I should have mentioned in my initial post that the OP can couples match with his brother, but just not tell any programs that they are doing so. There's no requirement that you disclose that you're couples matching, and programs will never know (hence no weirdness factor). But you still get all the benefits of the couple's match.

 

[DoctorAP28]

I should have mentioned in my initial post that the OP can couples match with his brother, but just not tell any programs that they are doing so. There's no requirement that you disclose that you're couples matching, and programs will never know (hence no weirdness factor). But you still get all the benefits of the couple's match.

Oh! That's great to hear thanks for that! Will go that route haha.

 

[DoctorAP28]

I understood them to be IMG. So, bye bye EM for #1, chance for #2.

I disagree with this entirely. If you check out the most recent match data for Emergency medicine for US IMG's our scores are fine enough if we apply broadly ( Average score for matched US IMG's for step 1 in 2014 was a 230 and average on step 2 was a 238). I want to add that I don't care personally that you think I have no chance, but I just don't want you to mislead other IMG's to think Emergency medicine is not possible.

 

[J ROD]

I disagree with this entirely. If you check out the most recent match data for Emergency medicine for US IMG's our scores are fine enough if we apply broadly. I want to add that I don't care personally that you think I have no chance, but I just don't want you to mislead other IMG's to think Emergency medicine is not possible.

......it ain't 2014 anymore. EM gets more and more competitive every year. Let me know how it works out next year.

Best chance you have is your brother saves your ass.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I disagree with this entirely. If you check out the most recent match data for Emergency medicine for US IMG's our scores are fine enough if we apply broadly ( Average score for matched US IMG's for step 1 in 2014 was a 230 and average on step 2 was a 238). I want to add that I don't care personally that you think I have no chance, but I just don't want you to mislead other IMG's to think Emergency medicine is not possible.

But when you are couples matching, it can make matching at a specific place together harder because of the contingencies...

 

[rokshana]

I disagree with this entirely. If you check out the most recent match data for Emergency medicine for US IMG's our scores are fine enough if we apply broadly ( Average score for matched US IMG's for step 1 in 2014 was a 230 and average on step 2 was a 238). I want to add that I don't care personally that you think I have no chance, but I just don't want you to mislead other IMG's to think Emergency medicine is not possible.

EM HAS become more difficult for the IMG in the last few years...you really have to have no red flags and even then apply very broadly (like almost every EM program out there)...and realize that EM programs are not very big, so while the programs may not know you are couples matching, they will be able to tell you are brothers...

make sure you get the recommended SLORs that EM requires...as IMGs sometimes these are hard to get.
oops! showing my age...

https://www.cordem.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3743

now they call it the SLOE...

 

[22031 Alum]

OP, there are small programs out there that will specifically try to avoid matching siblings into the same year. That may mean only interviewing one of you, ranking you very far apart or not ranking one of you at all. It can be hard enough when one resident has to leave for a family emergency, having the both of you would make it twice as hard. Something to keep in mind.

 

[DoctorAP28]

......it ain't 2014 anymore. EM gets more and more competitive every year. Let me know how it works out next year.

Best chance you have is your brother saves your ass.

Thank you for your honest and sincere post! It was a true help and extremely inspirational!

 

[DoctorAP28]

EM HAS become more difficult for the IMG in the last few years...you really have to have no red flags and even then apply very broadly (like almost every EM program out there)...and realize that EM programs are not very big, so while the programs may not know you are couples matching, they will be able to tell you are brothers...

make sure you get the recommended SLORs that EM requires...as IMGs sometimes these are hard to get.

Thank you sir. I do realize EM is becoming more competitive, but it has been my dream for over a year. I have 2 months of externship experience in EM and 2 LOR's, hope all of this can give me a solid chance at matching. I also thought of taking Step 3 because I did fairly well on Step 2. Not sure if this would be the right move though.

 

[rokshana]

Thank you sir. I do realize EM is becoming more competitive, but it has been my dream for over a year. I have 2 months of externship experience in EM and 2 LOR's, hope all of this can give me a solid chance at matching. I also thought of taking Step 3 because I did fairly well on Step 2. Not sure if this would be the right move though.

one, I'm a girl, so ma'am, would be the appropriate word...

again a regular generic LoR is not going to cut it in EM (see my link in my previous post)...it is what it is, but the step I score will be a red flag for you, whether taking Step III will help, probably not a help and definitely could hurt if you do worse than CK.

 

[deleted480308]

OP, there are small programs out there that will specifically try to avoid matching siblings into the same year. That may mean only interviewing one of you, ranking you very far apart or not ranking one of you at all. It can be hard enough when one resident has to leave for a family emergency, having the both of you would make it twice as hard. Something to keep in mind.

Absolutely. I would probably do that same if I was a program director. Family emergencies, they want vacation at the same time, one of them starts hating a co-resident and now it's a 3way hate fest, you have to fire one and now it's awkward as hell with the remaining one.....nope, wouldn't go near it

 

[evilbooyaa]

If you're BOTH applying to EM as IMGs, the likelihood of you BOTH matching in the same location is extremeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeely low.

As mentioned above, EM programs generally aren't huge, and most residency programs try to not have siblings match into the same class, in the same specialty, in the same hospital.

 

[Jecave]

I'm contemplating couples matching with my significant other and I want to make sure I understand the ROL set up. We are applying to different specialties but want to try to stay in the same city preferably. Say I'm ranking 3 programs(Chicago,NYC,MIA) and she is ranking 2 (Chicago, NYC) would this be a correct set up. I get confused with regards to the no match designation. Does it matter which one of us assigns ourself no match first? Thanks!
1. CHI-CHI
2. NYC-NYC
3. CHI-NYC
4.NYC-CHI
5.MIA-CHI
6.MIA-NYC
7.CHI- No match
8.NYC- No match
9.MIA- No match
10.No match-CHI
11. No match-NYC

 

[NotAProgDirector]

To the OP:

If you both have the same last name, it's likely programs will figure out that you are related (unless your last name is very common).

If you're identical twins, it's even more complicated.

I'm contemplating couples matching with my significant other and I want to make sure I understand the ROL set up. We are applying to different specialties but want to try to stay in the same city preferably. Say I'm ranking 3 programs(Chicago,NYC,MIA) and she is ranking 2 (Chicago, NYC) would this be a correct set up. I get confused with regards to the no match designation. Does it matter which one of us assigns ourself no match first? Thanks!
1. CHI-CHI
2. NYC-NYC
3. CHI-NYC
4.NYC-CHI
5.MIA-CHI
6.MIA-NYC
7.CHI- No match
8.NYC- No match
9.MIA- No match
10.No match-CHI
11. No match-NYC

Check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/couples-match-algorithm-help-for-rol.604622/

Make sure you read all the way to the bottom.

 

[gutonc]

I should have mentioned in my initial post that the OP can couples match with his brother, but just not tell any programs that they are doing so. There's no requirement that you disclose that you're couples matching, and programs will never know (hence no weirdness factor). But you still get all the benefits of the couple's match.

I pointed out the same thing in my previous post (as well as the fact that they won't be able to hide this very well since they're identical twins and presumably have the same last name).

But I'm not a PD.

 

[jennashell]

I once rotated at a IM program with identical twin residents. Creepiest/ weirdest experience ever. We couldn't tell them apart. Finally one guy chose to wear tie and other a bow tie.

 

[RangerBob]

I interviewed at a program with identical twins as well (one was a year ahead of the other though). It's probably less drama than a married couple and certainly better than a non-married couple.

 

[J ROD]

I interviewed at a program with identical twins as well (one was a year ahead of the other though). It's probably less drama than a married couple and certainly better than a non-married couple.

note the bold part. Same yr. Probably not.

 

[DoctorAP28]

To the OP:

If you both have the same last name, it's likely programs will figure out that you are related (unless your last name is very common).

If you're identical twins, it's even more complicated.




Check out this thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/couples-match-algorithm-help-for-rol.604622/

Make sure you read all the way to the bottom.

Haha we are fraternal twins and look nothing alike. But we have the same last name and I've never met someone with our last name lol. Plus our first names are similar as well (good old parents!) I think we are leaning towards not trying the couple match, thank you for your advice and thanks everyone for your advice! It means a lot to me that the people in this thread took the time in their busy schedules to help me out.

 

[J ROD]

Fraternal twins I believe would actually help you. Still recommend no couples match.

And if you both really want to end up at the same place, I think you going IM and him going EM is the best bet.

From what I have seen it is rare for "couples" to be taken in the same specialty in the same program.

 

[DoctorAP28]

Fraternal twins I believe would actually help you. Still recommend no couples match.

And if you both really want to end up at the same place, I think you going IM and him going EM is the best bet.

From what I have seen it is rare for "couples" to be taken in the same specialty in the same program.

I didn't really think about this. I'll definitely entertain this possibility. Thank you for the response!

 

[mvenus929]

Edit: Erroneous assumption because I lost track of who was talking in the thread. Move along...