Couples matching Help

[jchil7]

I was wondering if I could get some advice/ opinions from you guys/girls. So my GF and I are both 4th year medical students. She is applying ENT and I am applying IM and planning to go into Cardio fellowship after. We really want to stay together after the match. So far so good. However, now that we have all our interviews scheduled there is a problem. She has 6 total ENT interviews. Two interviews are at places in states that I didn't even think to apply to, two more are isolated but I knew she did away rotations there so I interviewed at both, however, when I made my rank list both of these place fell at dead last, the one I know for a fact I'd be miserable there.

So I'm stuck. We both worked really hard for this so I don't expect her to just not rank the places that I can't match. Conversely, knowing that in three years I have to match a competitive fellowship, I don't think it's fair that I follow her to what are my lowest two programs and to programs I think would be detrimental to matching in cardio later on in an area I want to train.

We've been together 3+ years at this point. I am definitely going into cardio, I highly highly doubt I will feel differently in residency, so assume I am doing cardio after.

Here are the places I interviewed at Grouped by places I liked the most/ thought would set me up for the future well:

Favorites:
Brown
BID
Temple
Univ of Maryland
Dartmouth
Jefferson
Next tier:
Penn State
VCU
Robert wood johnson
Next tier down:
MUSC
Virginia tech
Cooper hosp
Penn Hosp
The other places she had an interview (and at my bottom)
Geissinger
Louisville

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[sanfran256]

I think this is ultimately a decision that you guys have to make together.

However, as some one who is planning on participating in the couples match next year, I would much rather do long distance than make my partner unhappy. Especially since you have future plans to do a fellowship .

Looks like the next five years are going to be tough either way for you guys, wish you good luck!!

 

[Raryn]

Couples Match Shennanigans? has a good discussion of general strategies, as does the slightly older Couple's Match Algorithm Help for ROL. The couples match hasn't changed in the last few years though, so it still helps to read those discussions.

I'll try to summarize some:

Lets pretend the # of interviews you both have is now final, 6 for her and 15 for you. That means you have 111 possible combinations you can rank, with the following permutations (in no specific order):

A) Programs you both liked that are close together to each other

B) Programs one of you liked but the other one didn't that are close together to each other

C) Programs that neither of you liked that are close together to each other

D) Programs that you both liked that are far apart from each other

E) Programs that one person liked that are far apart from each other

F) Programs that neither of you liked that are far apart from each other

G) One of you matched at some program but the other unmatched

Obviously, A) is your preferred option. But the rest of the options include some kind of compromise. Either one of you being at a program you might not like, you both being far apart, or one of you being unmatched. No one can tell you what compromises you should prioritize. That really is a discussion that you need to have with your partner. Is it better for your career to go to a higher ranked program? Sure. But then you might have to be a thousand miles away from your partner. Is that worth it to you? I have no idea.

Once you're both done with interviews, sit down and discuss it. Grab a computer, list out all 111 combinations, and decide which options you'd prefer before others, and which are unacceptable. But remember, if there's a single combination you don't rank, you decrease one or the other of your chance of matching at all.

 

[sanfran256]

I personally think it is a lot smarter to be apart for 3-5 years when you are young to get the fellowship you want (which will shape your entire career), and possibly plant a foot where you want to settle .

It sounds like you would be bitter if you matched where she has options. Its tough when one person in the relationship is going for a competitive field !

 

[atomi]

In my opinion, and please realize this is my opinion only and I'm not saying everybody should believe the same things I do...

If you aren't willing to compromise on where you go to residency, then you probably need to split up.
If you have the option to be together, then you should be together. You're far enough in to know whether you want her to be the one with you for the rest of your life. You're at a juncture. If you're not going to commit to her long term, you all need to go your separate ways. If you do want to commit, then you need to be willing to compromise.

If either one of you or both of you cares more about matching at your favorite place than spending the next 3-5 years with your partner then I think the writing is on the wall.

I know of a resident who encouraged his gf to rank more elite programs higher rather than the program he was at. She matched at an elite program all over the country. He goes out with other girls and has cheated on her, which is pretty easy to keep a secret when she is working 80 hours a week thousands of miles away. But the plan is he will marry her when they finish and move to the same place. I've got to think -- what's the point? Why go through 5 years of being alone so you can keep playing the field in secret? If you really loved her, wouldn't you rather take a little hit on where you train to be with her?

Where you train is important to some degree, but I'd argue keeping your future spouse happy and your home life in order is far more important.

 

[atomi]

I personally think it is a lot smarter to be apart for 3-5 years when you are young to get the fellowship you want (which will shape your entire career), and possibly plant a foot where you want to settle .

It sounds like you would be bitter if you matched where she has options. Its tough when one person in the relationship is going for a competitive field !

Smarter from a career standpoint maybe. But this idea that you are going to do a distance relationship where each party is working 80+ hours a week and has their own independent in lives in cities 1000s of miles away and think that you're going to just see each other once every 2-3 months and reunite in 5 years and everything is going to be just peachy is just... fantasy.

You can try to have your cake and eat it to, and while it may be technically possible, the only realistic result involves a regurgitated pile of puke.

 

[Raryn]

Smarter from a career standpoint maybe. But this idea that you are going to do a distance relationship where each party is working 80+ hours a week and has their own independent in lives in cities 1000s of miles away and think that you're going to just see each other once every 2-3 months and reunite in 5 years and everything is going to be just peachy is just... fantasy.

You can try to have your cake and eat it to, and while it may be technically possible, the only realistic result involves a regurgitated pile of puke.

This might be your opinion, but there's thousands of residents who do it every day. My (now) wife and I were long distance for 5 years - we made it work. We prioritized communication, took all vacations visiting each other, and made it to the end, now living our fantasy I suppose. So did a number of my coresidents. I also know other people who couldn't make it work and by the end of residency were divorced/broken up.

You honestly have to decide what your priorities are. If OP prioritizes living together for 3 years over the fact that they may never become a cardiologist - that's a perfectly legitimate choice. And yes, some programs have a much lower chance of fellowship than others.

If OP prioritizes time with their SO, well, that's also a legitimate choice.

In this system, there are no wrong choices (with the possible exception of choosing to match separately and ignoring the couples match because you misunderstand it - that's a wrong choice), only potential compromises - and every couple needs to sit down and discuss their priorities with each other.

 

[atomi]

This might be your opinion, but there's thousands of residents who do it every day.

The vast majority have partners that follow them or they have followed their partners. Either med-med or med-nonmed couples. I only know of a single case where they purposely chose to be apart to better their fellowship chances, and he's the guy who cheats on his distance gf -- and I don't think that's surprising if he didn't care enough about her to prioritize being with her. You make it seem like this situation and having it work out successfully is common -- I don't think it is.

Sure, it can be done. I would just go into it with eyes wide open that it's going to take a lot of effort, involve a lot of drama, and there is still a very good chance it will fail.

 

[sanfran256]

Smarter from a career standpoint maybe. But this idea that you are going to do a distance relationship where each party is working 80+ hours a week and has their own independent in lives in cities 1000s of miles away and think that you're going to just see each other once every 2-3 months and reunite in 5 years and everything is going to be just peachy is just... fantasy.

You can try to have your cake and eat it to, and while it may be technically possible, the only realistic result involves a regurgitated pile of puke.

I'm not talking about being across the other side of the country.
Some of his favorite programs and some of her potential programs are <300miles apart. An example would be Jefferson and Geissinger.
others options involve like a 2 hr plane ride

As I said, IM and ENT doing a match together is tough. ENT you have to go whereever you get in and IM you have a bit more flexibility in location. Its tough for OP to choose a **** program over his better options.

 

[Raryn]

The vast majority have partners that follow them or they have followed their partners. Either med-med or med-nonmed couples. I only know of a single case where they purposely chose to be apart to better their fellowship chances, and he's the guy who cheats on his distance gf -- and I don't think that's surprising if he didn't care enough about her to prioritize being with her. You make it seem like this situation and having it work out successfully is common -- I don't think it is.

Sure, it can be done. I would just go into it with eyes wide open that it's going to take a lot of effort, involve a lot of drama, and there is still a very good chance it will fail.

I don't know of any statistics about the vast majority one way or the other, but I knew a number of residents 1000-2000 miles from their SO. I was one of them - for four of my five years of training, we were 2000 miles apart. For one year, we were ~100 miles apart. There was minimal drama involved - and I can guarantee you I wasn't going on dates with anyone.

 

[ciestar]

I'm not talking about being across the other side of the country.
Some of his favorite programs and some of her potential programs are <300miles apart. An example would be Jefferson and Geissinger.
others options involve like a 2 hr plane ride

As I said, IM and ENT doing a match together is tough. ENT you have to go whereever you get in and IM you have a bit more flexibility in location. Its tough for OP to choose a **** program over his better options.

Yeah, Geisinger and Jeff are about 2-2.5 hours apart, but I would struggle with that as a married person.

 

[atomi]

I'm not talking about being across the other side of the country.
Some of his favorite programs and some of her potential programs are <300miles apart. An example would be Jefferson and Geissinger.
others options involve like a 2 hr plane ride

As I said, IM and ENT doing a match together is tough. ENT you have to go whereever you get in and IM you have a bit more flexibility in location. Its tough for OP to choose a **** program over his better options.

If you can be within driving distance and see each other every weekend/once a week then it may be do-able. This idea that you’re a 2 hour plane ride away is bogus IMO. I’ve thought like that before. In reality, leave your house 2 hours before you depart, 2 hour plane ride, 1 hour to land and get your stuff and get a ride to you SO’s place. Add another hour for delays and stuff that comes up. That’s 6 hours right there for a nonstop flight. Add a connection and it’s taking most of your day. At the best, $200 round trip, $300 when you add ground transportation. More likely $400 round trip total. Do this once a month, it adds up. By the time you’be gotten there and had dinner and breakfast, it’s time to leave again. You get back late, have no time to manage your affairs at home, have to go straight to work, and end up very stressed out. It is not nearly as easy as it sounds “2 hour plane ride away” unless you have your own Learjet.

I don't know of any statistics about the vast majority one way or the other, but I knew a number of residents 1000-2000 miles from their SO. I was one of them - for four of my five years of training, we were 2000 miles apart. For one year, we were ~100 miles apart. There was minimal drama involved - and I can guarantee you I wasn't going on dates with anyone.

Congrats on being the exception to the rule. I am glad it was so easy for you. However I think it’s dangerous to suggest that others should expect your experience. I have been in a distance relationship for all of residency with someone outside of the healthcare industry for reasons having nothing to do with me trying to go to the best program. I desperately tried to stay nearby but it didn’t work out. It has been very rough to say the least. I do know a little about this topic.

 

[IMreshopeful]

If you can be within driving distance and see each other every weekend/once a week then it may be do-able. This idea that you’re a 2 hour plane ride away is bogus IMO. I’ve thought like that before. In reality, leave your house 2 hours before you depart, 2 hour plane ride, 1 hour to land and get your stuff and get a ride to you SO’s place. Add another hour for delays and stuff that comes up. That’s 6 hours right there for a nonstop flight. Add a connection and it’s taking most of your day. At the best, $200 round trip, $300 when you add ground transportation. More likely $400 round trip total. Do this once a month, it adds up. By the time you’be gotten there and had dinner and breakfast, it’s time to leave again. You get back late, have no time to manage your affairs at home, have to go straight to work, and end up very stressed out. It is not nearly as easy as it sounds “2 hour plane ride away” unless you have your own Learjet.



Congrats on being the exception to the rule. I am glad it was so easy for you. However I think it’s dangerous to suggest that others should expect your experience. I have been in a distance relationship for all of residency with someone outside of the healthcare industry for reasons having nothing to do with me trying to go to the best program. I desperately tried to stay nearby but it didn’t work out. It has been very rough to say the least. I do know a little about this topic.

I was in a long distance relationship with my wife before AND after we were married for a period of 2-3 years. We made it work. I didn’t cheat on her and vice versa, unlike the dick you mentioned.

I also have four or five classmates who did long distance in this manner. I also know a couple who matched fellowships in different specialties who need to stay apart for a couple years and it’s working just fine. Im sorry that you didn’t have a good experience but it seems like you’re projecting your own issues onto this.

And again with the exception of MUSC, Virginia Tech, Knoxville, most of these programs are within 5-6 hours of each other driving distance. This is NOT some insane east or west coast long distance relationship

Is this ideal? Of course not. Is it doable? I think yes

 

[IMreshopeful]

I'm not talking about being across the other side of the country.
Some of his favorite programs and some of her potential programs are <300miles apart. An example would be Jefferson and Geissinger.
others options involve like a 2 hr plane ride

As I said, IM and ENT doing a match together is tough. ENT you have to go whereever you get in and IM you have a bit more flexibility in location. Its tough for OP to choose a **** program over his better options.

Yeah I agree - I think it will depend on if they prioritize proximity over career. Ultimately OP would have to sacrifice since ENT is much more competitive

 

[atomi]

Well n=2. We have a consensus. Guess I’m totally wrong and really the exception. It will definitely be super easy. A fellowship is definitely more important than your wife. Don’t expect anything else other than just gravy. Good luck!

 

[IMreshopeful]

Well n=2. We have a consensus. Guess I’m totally wrong and really the exception. It will definitely be super easy. A fellowship is definitely more important than your wife. Don’t expect anything else other than just gravy. Good luck!

You’re using your n of 1....
You seem to have a tendency to just get upset and rage quit the conversation any time someone offers a differing viewpoint

 

[atomi]

You’re using your n of 1....
You seem to have a tendency to just get upset and rage quit the conversation any time someone offers a differing viewpoint

Nope. You win. You’re right. Choosing to rank an IM program over another IM program to have a better shot at fellowship is totally worth being away from your wife or future wife for 6 years. FaceTime is just as good as being there in person. I don’t know how I couldn’t see that this was common sense that it’s very unlikely anything will go wrong.

Just like everything else in life for our generation you really can have your cake and eat it too. Compromises are for suckers. Why not throw kids in the mix too? You can definitely get a gold medal in that as well. They raise themselves in daycare after all. What a wonderful time to be a young person.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Nope. You win. You’re right. Choosing to rank an IM program over another IM program to have a better shot at fellowship is totally worth being away from your wife or future wife for 6 years. FaceTime is just as good as being there in person. I don’t know how I couldn’t see that this was common sense that it’s very unlikely anything will go wrong.

Just like everything else in life for our generation you really can have your cake and eat it too. Compromises are for suckers. Why not throw kids in the mix too? You can definitely get a gold medal in that as well. They raise themselves in daycare after all. What a wonderful time to be a young person.

k

 

[Raryn]

Nope. You win. You’re right. Choosing to rank an IM program over another IM program to have a better shot at fellowship is totally worth being away from your wife or future wife for 6 years. FaceTime is just as good as being there in person. I don’t know how I couldn’t see that this was common sense that it’s very unlikely anything will go wrong.

Just like everything else in life for our generation you really can have your cake and eat it too. Compromises are for suckers. Why not throw kids in the mix too? You can definitely get a gold medal in that as well. They raise themselves in daycare after all. What a wonderful time to be a young person.

None of us are saying that is true for every person. But it is something to consider having an honest discussion about with your partner when you have extremely disparate quality between the programs you interviewed at. Not to mention that we're discussing three years now, not six - the other three will be another set of decisions three years from now.