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For sure! Honestly this is probably the fastest I've seen WCG move...about 1 month ish from the announcement to Go Live. Some of their projects take 1-2 years to launch.
COVID-19 and impact on school
- Thread starter CoffeeQuestionMark
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deleted676737
It’s now been over two weeks since the governor put out his order to reopen everything and our county commissioners decided to opt for that instead of extending our previous, more strict county stay-at-home order. Basically, it’s been roughly one incubation period since everything—restaurants, churches, etc.—started opening back up.
The past couple of days have seen the greatest daily increase in cases for our county. We did have a lull for a week or so despite improvements in test availability, but it is definitely ramping back up now. We’ve also had more deaths.
I really wish we could say “Told you so” to the idiot commissioners who care more about the economy and politics than lives. Sometimes I wonder how things would have gone over both nationally and locally if it weren’t an election year and these people didn’t have their bases to try to please. It shouldn't even be a political issue.
Will be interesting to see if our rates of increase continue to be this high over the next few weeks.
The past couple of days have seen the greatest daily increase in cases for our county. We did have a lull for a week or so despite improvements in test availability, but it is definitely ramping back up now. We’ve also had more deaths.
I really wish we could say “Told you so” to the idiot commissioners who care more about the economy and politics than lives. Sometimes I wonder how things would have gone over both nationally and locally if it weren’t an election year and these people didn’t have their bases to try to please. It shouldn't even be a political issue.
Will be interesting to see if our rates of increase continue to be this high over the next few weeks.
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Honestly, I admire your ability to restrain yourself from yelling in frustration at all the citizens and officials. I probably would have done it by now.
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Thankfully, I don't actually work directly with the public (at least not for now, in the time of COVID-19) and it's our director who is interfacing will the commissioners. We all just preach to each other, the choir, here.
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We do this in my laboratory during morning duties. And when we see people from other sections in the hall. It's great to have an outlet.
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Do any of OOS students (especially international students) start looking for housing? I don’t know if I have to secure an apartment and pay the rent with all the uncertainties. Any ideas?
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Ooh... I feel like if I were an international student I’d seriously consider asking for a deferral. Who knows when you’ll be allowed in/out of the country...
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Really fascinating to track the data during phased reopening. Phase One started on May 1st for us. We've gone from 238 to 308 total cases in that time, but the interesting thing is we actually got something of a second wave before reopening started.
There was a peak on the 8th with the highest new cases we've had in the county, and since then it has seemed to settle down again. This graph doesn't go all the way out to today but we've had no more than 5 new cases on any day since then, and actually had a few days of 0. It sounds like we'll be heading into Phase 2 at the end of the month as long as things stay about at this level.
Next I need to go see how the state is doing...
There was a peak on the 8th with the highest new cases we've had in the county, and since then it has seemed to settle down again. This graph doesn't go all the way out to today but we've had no more than 5 new cases on any day since then, and actually had a few days of 0. It sounds like we'll be heading into Phase 2 at the end of the month as long as things stay about at this level.
Next I need to go see how the state is doing...
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Nashville and Memphis still not doing great...most other counties outside of those immediate areas have started to plateau
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I wish ours was looking this good. We've been registering 15+ new cases in my county a day for a while, 6 today so far. Four active outbreaks in facilities here, three of which are within 10 minutes of my house. Per 100k residents we're doing better than Denver, Boulder, and El Paso counties (the cities in the first two counties are self explanatory, last is where Colorado Springs is), but we're still around 140 cases per 100k residents. We're eleventh in the state overall for total number of cases. Also, the neighboring county to us (very rural) is getting slammed and has the fourth highest total number of cases and the fifth highest number of cases per 100k residents in the state.
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Hows Larimer co looking?
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The "ours"/"my county" referenced above is Larimer county
The neighboring county getting hit hard right now is Weld
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If you're curious for more detail though, here is Larimer's public health site @StayingPositive2017
Larimer COVID-19
Larimer COVID-19
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How is everyone doing? Any news on what is happening with your classes as yet?
I am still looking to be able to make it into the US in early July to start my internship (keeping my fingers crossed). It has been a stressful time as an International intern at this time, so I have been thinking of you all!
I am still looking to be able to make it into the US in early July to start my internship (keeping my fingers crossed). It has been a stressful time as an International intern at this time, so I have been thinking of you all!
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My lab got permission to start phase 1 of reopening, so we're allowed back in 5 hour shifts of not more than 6 people. I was essential so I could already come in, but I wasn't allowed to do new experiments until today. I feel like there's some trepidation because we don't trust that we won't be closed down again given that my state's cases are still very much on the upswing.
Have any schools already announced plans for the fall in terms of possibly moving online? I know Penn has pretty much said they want to go to back in person but since we are in a big city they will not hesitate to stay online in the fall if that is in everyones best interest.
Wondering how some schools being online while others are in person will affect attendance decisions.
Wondering how some schools being online while others are in person will affect attendance decisions.
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OSU is doing in person classes with social distancing measures in place. The vet school specifically has considered doing online lectures with in person labs, but things are still subject to change. That being said Corvallis has an insanely low prevalence at the moment, about 2 current infections per 1000 residents is the preliminary number with the data from a city wide study.
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Illinois wont have a decision until mid-June. And, honestly, things can change in the two months from June to August that whatever they say in June is not something I'm going to count on.
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I will say, despite the fact that Penn hasn’t really said anything of substance yet because the situation keeps changing, it looks like the city has done a great job getting the number of new cases down. From a peak of 604 new cases per day in mid April, we’re down to the mid/low 200’s. And this is despite the fact that we’ve been testing far more people per day (around 70% more). We’re still a way off from where we need to be to reopen, but I think things are looking promising. But what that means in terms of having hundreds of people back in the school come fall remains to be seen.
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WSU is planning to return to in person, but most likely with modifications. AKA most likely in person labs because of smaller groups with lectures being online again. I think particularly at least for my school and particularly my class (3rd years) in person labs are necessary because we are in spay block and learning to do all the doctor things this next year that's impossible to do via distance. I would think the government or schools or something would have to step in if they didn't have at least our labs in person for some alternative scenario due to how loans are structured, graduating, and clinical proficiency(AVMA COE)& clinical sizes (can't defer the whole class for a year without serious implications).
I know our administration is working hard to try and at least have labs in person for all years. Thoughts have also been thrown around about like people with last name A-C can come to class on Mondays, D-F Tuesday, etc per # allowance so that we can have some normal, because I know myself and others definitely felt the at home struggle for retention. Our diagnostic lab is also working towards helping with human testing so they're coming up with plans that maybe we can all be in person again with temp checks and masks with the testing lab in place since it's essentially at our disposal. Ultimately these things are still quite a bit out and things will change, but they're planning on scenarios from A-Z.
For clinicals 4th years start the first week of June with modifications after a forced month vacation and their schedules getting switched up.
As for affecting attendance decisions from a school to school basis I don't think it will because the deadline for acceptance has already passed. For deciding to ultimately attend I would hope if people wanted to go to vet school that they stay with their plan and go. From my perspective and how my school is set up 3yrs didactics and 1 year clinicals with traditional lectures and not PBL or systems based the best place to be is honestly year 1 to be stuck doing online because you have the most time left in the program to make up opportunities. Worst place is probably being a 4th or 3rd year depending on how this thing plays out
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Amen.
It'd also be really freaking nice and less tragic if there wasn't a PPE black hole that seems to persist to present day (May 2020). Assuming there's no health care shortage of PPE for the purpose of this paragraph, it'd be super Gucci if the general public had ready and copious access to high quality, domestically sourced masks, soaps, and hand sanitizers so that a 100% face covering policy in adjunct with a tapered re-opening of businesses could be implemented. It's wholly cocoa puffs to prematurely re-open society without at bare minimum some strict mask policies, which are enabled by...access to an abundant supply of masks without the need to adapt or simply go without.
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Amen.
It'd also be really freaking nice and less tragic if there wasn't a PPE black hole that seems to persist to present day (May 2020). Assuming there's no health care shortage of PPE for the purpose of this paragraph, it'd be super Gucci if the general public had ready and copious access to high quality, domestically sourced masks, soaps, and hand sanitizers so that a 100% face covering policy in adjunct with a tapered re-opening of businesses could be implemented. It's wholly cocoa puffs to prematurely re-open society without at bare minimum some strict mask policies, which are enabled by...access to an abundant supply of masks without the need to adapt or simply go without.
Yeah. This whole healthcare workers directly caring for covid patients only getting a single N95 mask for the week, which then gets recycled by sterilizing with peroxide gas (reducing efficacy by 5%) is a joke. My husband is a researcher in a hospital. He gets two surgical masks for the week....
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Still? That sucks so bad. (I was spending a few hours/day on reading and keeping up with this pandemic but burnt out in mid-April so haven't been up to date.) That's horrifying that local supply for health care workers (of all stripes) is still abysmal.
I think a lab-grade UV-C chamber might do less damage to an N95 mask than peroxide gas, but that's just a hunch, and gas is probably easier to get.
I was hoping that Apple and Hanes and all the others would have stepped up the N95 and surgical mask production by now. Wonder what their status and ETA is...
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This is a cool page of data (the Johns Hopkins maps are my favorite for updates)
coronavirus.jhu.edu
New COVID-19 Cases Worldwide - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center
Have countries flattened the curve? Daily confirmed new COVID-19 cases for the most affected countries over time.
coronavirus.jhu.edu
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I admittedly have not been keeping up with this thread, so apologies if this has already been discussed.
My summer job at the hospital is gone. This is the first summer I’ve been without a job in 10 years. I’m less concerned about finances and more concerned about staying sane. Has anyone had luck reaching out to local clinics and seeing if they need vet assistants for the summer?
Edit: Asking because I’m not sure if clinics are needing help right now, especially given financial constraints currently.
My summer job at the hospital is gone. This is the first summer I’ve been without a job in 10 years. I’m less concerned about finances and more concerned about staying sane. Has anyone had luck reaching out to local clinics and seeing if they need vet assistants for the summer?
Edit: Asking because I’m not sure if clinics are needing help right now, especially given financial constraints currently.
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If you have enough skills and experience to be useful with minimal training, it might be worthwhile to call around. I think it’s geographically and clinic dependent, but many clinics are drowning and might be able to use the help. A lot of hospitals are busier than ever, and short handed with support staff. Esp for a temp situation through the busiest of months in the summer, you may find some takers.
Several of my classmates have found jobs in clinics for this summer (SW Va, Richmond, and rural TX that I know of).
At least one clinic in Richmond was recruiting more help because they'd been busier than normal, not sure why or how. I think the place in Texas was relatively unaffected because it is cattle focused. The SW Va clinics that I know people were hired at all have an emergency component I think.
So.. you might have better luck if you're willing to look at LA or ER type practices?
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At least one clinic in Richmond was recruiting more help because they'd been busier than normal, not sure why or how. I think the place in Texas was relatively unaffected because it is cattle focused. The SW Va clinics that I know people were hired at all have an emergency component I think.
So.. you might have better luck if you're willing to look at LA or ER type practices?
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I would possibly kill for an assistant with basic skills right now... so busy, inefficient and down people and doctors right now. Reaching out is definitely not gonna hurt.
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It depends a lot on the area. I’m sure this could be true of lower income areas as well, but the high income areas I know of have seen a surge in pet adoptions. The hospital I used to work at, which is in a high income area, brought in more revenue this April than last April. When people are home and still have jobs and money, they need something to keep them and their families occupied so they spend it on pets and pet care. Hospitals in those areas are having a perfectly fine time.
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We have been even to last year, but that's with basically zero boarding (which is usually starting to ramp up right about now). So definitely busier on the medical side!
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Thanks for the advice guys! I haven’t really done hands-on clinical work for several years (I went into a rabbit hole of doing research, then vet pharmacy stuff) so I’m a little nervous about asking places. I’m rusty, for sure, but several of my former employers have called me a “sponge” when it comes to learning things (I soak it all up very quickly). Even moreso with hands-on work.
Already called my usual GP in the area and they said they’ll get back to me!
Already called my usual GP in the area and they said they’ll get back to me!
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Thanks for the advice guys! I haven’t really done hands-on clinical work for several years (I went into a rabbit hole of doing research, then vet pharmacy stuff) so I’m a little nervous about asking places. I’m rusty, for sure, but several of my former employers have called me a “sponge” when it comes to learning things (I soak it all up very quickly). Even moreso with hands-on work.
Already called my usual GP in the area and they said they’ll get back to me!
Honestly even if you don’t have tech skills, if you can answer phones professionally, take credit card payments, and have enough common sense when it comes to scheduling and rx refills and taking messages for the doctor, you would come in handy.
The common sense part is hard to find, and hence why good receptionists are the hardest positions to fill. They’re hugely important. I’m almost tempted to just take a vet receptionist position for funsies, esp in this day and age where reception doesn’t have to do much face to face with clients
My only concern with being in person, is if one student gets covid, everyone they have been around is supposed to isolate and stay home or 2-3 weeks, due to the track and trace protocols. How will they handle the in person labs when a chunk of students have to isolate. There are not a lot of cases now. But when everyone travels back to school on planes and roads there is likely to be a substantial increase.
I want to be in person. I am super excited to be starting Veterinary school. However I am concerned they are being overly optimistic on the level of control we have with this illness. I really don’t want to start in person and then part way through the semester have everything shut down again. Having worked with professors at a college here as the college I work for scrambled to convert labs to online it was a stressful ugly mess to do it on the fly.
As much as I want to be in person, and I’ll show up with bells on if that’s the final decision. I worry that it will be premature to start in person in the fall. There is a part of me that wonders if it is appropriate to ask students to risk their health and potentially life, or there loved ones health and life so that they can pursue there education.
There are no easy answers, that is the nature of a pandemic. And they may have plans in place for what to do with students and staff who have to isolate due to exposure and therefore can’t come to in person classes. It would be great if they would give us more details as to how they intend to manage those issues.
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You can always ask about deferring a year if you’re not comfortable with in person stuff
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I can only speak for my school so hopefully someone from WSU will know more, but everything they do here comes out of meetings with our public health experts, and yes, there is a plan in place. They may not have fully developed those plans for the fall yet, since there are still a few months ahead of us and things change so rapidly. If they haven't given you more information, it is probably because they don't quite have it yet. Here they haven't put out the official plan for the fall yet, though there are several in consideration.
Yes, I imagine if someone in a group were to get sick, everyone would have to be quarantined and tested, that is part of the reason for having in person stuff only happen with smaller groups. Having a larger capacity for testing (which some places do now, not everywhere of course, and hopefully will be more widespread by the fall) will help so that people don't have to quarantine unnecessarily. There will be steps to try to prevent that necessity in the first place. Having everyone still wear masks, maintaining that 6ft distancing wherever possible, self checks in the morning, etc. And I can't imagine they would let people show up without requiring a 2 week quarantine after travel. That is policy here at least, if you've traveled by public transit at all, or if you're coming from a county with a certain number of new cases in the previous 2 weeks (since I haven't been traveling I don't remember the numbers lol) you have to quarantine and check your temperature twice daily. May have changed with testing availability but I think they're still reserving tests for people who are symptomatic or have known exposure.
And all of this could change again in the next few months but I hope knowing what the protocols have been like elsewhere will ease your mind at least somewhat. The best thing you can do is talk to your school though, because they will have the most accurate info for you.
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Also keep in mind that the schools now won't have this sprung on them like it was in the spring' there won't be a surprise, abrupt change with no idea how to do it. I can also speak for my school that they're going through and making multiple contingency plans, and I would expect that's standard across all the vet schools right now. They are probably making plans for everything from fully in person to fully online, just in case. The summer *just* started for nearly every school. They were dealing with moving 3 classes online/to online clinics, getting another class graduated, and getting a fifth class rolling with some easier new student stuff. Now schools can fully focus on the fall now that the 3rd and 4th years of most schools have transitioned to online clinics fully, the old 4th years graduated, and the 1st and 2nd years are out of class. They had a lot going on. The schools will get you the info as soon as they have it, but I wouldn't expect any sort of concise plan until mid-June. They need time to coordinate the aspects of different classes, what can and cannot be learned/taught online, what to do about 4th years if they can't go in person, etc.
It's definitely a high anxiety time and your feelings are valid. But realize that it's high anxiety for the people at the schools too and the schools have no intention of making us risk our health for our education. They simply require us to be patient. They're just as stuck as the rest of us and can only work within the confines of their main university policies, the local, state, and federal government policies, and the polices of the AVMA COE graduation requirements. That's a lot to juggle while potentially planning for as many contingencies as possible.
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Ski, WZ, and Bats have all made excellent points already in which many of were brought up in my original post. Unfortunately it's just too early to know to a specific degree what's going to happen and they're doing their best to plan for every scenario. Like WZ mentioned they're working with those people like public health, infectious disease experts, doctors, etc to come up with plans. Spokane campus has a med school and I know the WSU system has been working hard to collaborate to expedite things including working with UW, but what things end up being like on each individual campus will look different because of size, location, programs and resources. All of these vet schools are also talking to each other. When the decisions came to shut down particularly with the 4th years I know our dean and hospital director were on the phone with several other vet schools around the US on how to best navigate this. How 4th years are proceeding is varying a ton by location. As far as I know we are the only school yet to pursue online format due to size, cases, and how our 4th years are scheduled. As of last week they're scheduled to start back in clinics in 2 weeks with some sort of variation (details I'm not 100% in the know). Ideally our county will be on the cusp of entering WA phase 3 by then which allows groups of 50 and would allow the hospital to return to "normal" per say as far as students back in clinics.
Overall most universities in the US it seems from various articles I have read are looking to do the hybrid format. U of Arizona has a plan with contact trace that made it sound like they were going back full force in the fall. If you look at other countries like Korea and China they are getting their children back into school-with some creative ways which I think could be implemented here fairly easily to allow the safest return to class. Not being comfortable with that is ok and you can talk to administration about concerns you have and options(I would wait til July though as I think they will have a better know of what's happening vs right now alot of the answers are idk).
I know for many of my classmates, myself included we would rather start in-person and have to go back to online later if necessary. Our labs (specifically 3rd year) cannot be transformed to an online format. It'd be easier for us to do labs and then delay clinics by 2,4,6 weeks etc while a group quarantined if necessary because we can't start clinics without doing some of these labs. 2nd&1st year labs are easier to move to online, 1st year probably not ideal, but doable.
A second factor specifically for me (and many of my classmates with SOs) that makes me ok with going back to school is that I'm just as at risk sitting at home as if I was in school. Many of our SOs are still working with some of them dealing with the public up close and personal everyday and bringing all of that home with them everyday. It's a very different situation for everyone for sure based on your living situation. Mix everyone together and there's definitely no 100% safe way to go about restarting.
I would encourage you to watch the next WSU system town hall this Friday if you can. It's nothing specific to the CVM, but will hopefully give you a better idea of where the overarching administration is at at this point in time as far as decisions.
My inbox is always open too as I'm always happy to inform you as I learn things and answer more specific questions if I can. Administration will send out an email when things are "final" but like everything things are changing rapidly and so are they, they simply just don't know at this point.
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Yeah it’s v difficult to do junior surgery online
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Nah, just play some surgeon simulator...Yeah it’s v difficult to do junior surgery online
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I haven’t been keeping up too well with this thread but thought I’d toss out what LSU’s current plan is. First two weeks will be online to allow everyone to isolate. Then we will do labs in small groups in person with full PPE. we will finish labs before thanksgiving then the last 2 weeks will be online. We will be required to do some contact tracing but they haven’t given too much detail quite yet.
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Ours has remained open throughout, though students were not required to come in for...two months total? And it was emergency/urgent cases only. A couple rotations (necropsy, spay/neuter) have students back now but the official return is June 1st, and it'll be kind of staggered so only half to a quarter of the students per rotation will be in person, at least for the first month. Still wearing masks, distancing as much as possible, and reporting morning self-checks to the head of your rotation. They're also allowing some non-urgent cases now at the discretion of the clinicians, things like rechecks for chronic problems and the like. There's probably other stuff that I'm forgetting since it's not super relevant to me anymore...
Also I learned that the county is down to 27 active cases today!
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Ours has stayed open the whole time with emergencies only and no students except for student employees (after hours rads, kennel techs, clin path, etc). They are planning on opening up the non-emergent services on June 1 with staggering of employees to maintain social distancing. July is scheduled as tentative full open. August is when 4th years will be back.
This is obviously pending a small to no second wave. If things kick up, I have a bad feeling that this may get delayed. At that point, the 4th years can come back as late as 4 weeks later, and still have enough in clinic time to meet graduation requirements. If not, I have no clue what they could do for us.
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Now I really want to see it done well!!
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I was gonna say, the game's controls are such that it's kind of impossible to do well
