Criteria for choosing a med school

[aaj117]

Hey everyone! So a big congrats to everyone in this forum. So far many of us are in the position of being SURE we are going to medical school next year. Some of us are already faced with the decision of which one? while others will hopefully be in that position soon. How are you guys deciding? What criteria are most important for you?
I'm making a spreadsheet right now with the criteria important to me, and giving each school that i've interviewed at and haven't been rejected from (either haven't heard from, accepted, or waitlisted) a number value. Trying to kinda just make this a little bit easier. Some things, like location, are worth up to 20 points, while others like simulation facilities are 15, some are worth 10, some only worth 2 or 3, you get the picture. So far on the list i have location, feel, simulation facilities, international opportunities, cost, curriculum, diversity, early clinical opportunity, and schedule (as in, 9am-5pm class vs. 8am-2pm, etc). What else are you guys planning to include in your criteria for making this decision? I feel like i'm missing really important things.

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[njbmd]

My main criterion for choosing a medical school was my level of comfort at said school. You will not perform at a high level if you are uncomfortable period. After that, money was a huge factor as I attended the school that offered me a full-ride tuition scholarship. To that end, I now owe $40K at 2% interest for my entire education. I was offered scholarships at all of the schools that accepted me but a full-ride was difficult to beat.

Day in and day out, you will be the single most important factor in your medical education. You won't have much of a social life and you won't be spending hours of time outside of study time. You have one chance to master your medical school subjects and thus you need to do well for day one.

The other thing that is of little consequence is the so-called "reputation" of the medical school. Any accredited medical school in this country can send you into any medical residency program provided you perform well. If you are AOA (Alpha Omega Alpha) at a "lesser-ranked" medical school, you will trump a person who is not AOA at a high ranked school. Trust me on this one, an AOA key opens doors period.

There is little difference in medical schools in this country outside of location and student body make up. The LCME (Liaison Committee on Medical Education) makes sure that all accredited medical schools offer a quality education for their students and prepares them adequately for a strong performance on USMLE exams. The rest is totally up to the individual student themselves.

In the end, now that I am at the end of my training, I realize that I made the right decision in terms of not having a huge debt load to bring into practice. I will easily pay off my loans during my first year of practice. With rising costs and interest rates in the face of lower reimbursements to physicians for services rendered to patients, not having huge loans is a definite plus factor in terms of lifestyle for me.

Go where you are comfortable and strongly consider any school that offers you a scholarship. In the end, having little to pay back will give you far more options than you would believe.

 

[LovelyMD]

I'm thinking that my level of comfort and cost will probably be my two biggest criteria as well, though "level of comfort" is something I probably won't be able to assess too well until I attend revisit weekends and meet my future classmates. Level of comfort trumps cost though, so if I feel like I'm not comfortable at a school, then I won't take the $.

I'm trying not to take into consideration things like P/F vs. grades, simulation labs, etc, otherwise I feel like I'll be eliminating a lot of schools that I felt good about at my interview. For example, Emory probably has the most unappealing grading system out of all my schools (A/B/C/D/F, and you get an actual GPA), but I felt great there and I love the location. I don't think Hopkins and Michigan have sim labs yet (or at least they didn't show them to us), but I'd be hard pressed to turn them down as well.

For me, I think it's going to come down to level of comfort, cost, and just my gut feeling... which is kind of bad because I'm pretty indecisive and my gut feeling changes every day. That, and I'd be happy to attend all 9 of the schools that I haven't withdrawn from.

 

[QTCL13]

Just one other small thing you can add (off the top of my head) is variety of teching methods. Is the school strictly lecture only, strictly PBL only, have some of both, use journal clubs, and other small group settings? Have classes in ethics, medical humanities, etc? This might already factor into one of the big categories you mentioned but that's one of my considerations as well.

 

[aaj117]

This whole decision-making thing stinks. A lot is going to depend on money for me too, but i feel bad holding a lot of acceptances until i get financial aid packages months from now. Strangely i also feel really really bad turning down an acceptance, and i know i need to get over that. I feel like i don't know ANYTHING about UMDNJ-RWJ because i didn't get to go there for my interview, i interviewed at Cooper Hospital in Camden. I mean i know most of the basics as i asked questions in the interview and got to talk to a third year, but as far as the "Feel", i have no idea. That makes it really hard to turn down. I'm pretty sure i'd go to stony brook over there, but i feel like i should go to the open house thing they're having january 11th to make sure. I just don't have any time off left from work, and still have multiple interviews left...
QTCL13, it looks like we applied to, got interviews at, and acceptances to quite a few of the same schools. Why did you decide to withdraw from robert wood johnson? Did you see the actual campus?

 

[flaahless]

Mine is cost, location and curriculum. I am looking for a new innovative curriculum rather than an old one.I don't want to be in lecture all day. I also want humble, noncompetitive classmates.

 

[LovelyMD]

Some things, like location, are worth up to 20 points, while others like simulation facilities are 15, some are worth 10, some only worth 2 or 3, you get the picture. So far on the list i have location, feel, simulation facilities, international opportunities, cost, curriculum, diversity, early clinical opportunity, and schedule (as in, 9am-5pm class vs. 8am-2pm, etc).

Hmm, in looking at your criteria, I can definitely see why Cornell is your dream school!

Good luck on Friday, and if you don't hear from them on Friday, just remember that 2/3 of the class is accepted in March!!

 

[aaj117]

Hmm, in looking at your criteria, I can definitely see why Cornell is your dream school!

Good luck on Friday, and if you don't hear from them on Friday, just remember that 2/3 of the class is accepted in March!!

Haha yes, besides cost, it is EXACTLY what i want. I don't expect to hear from them on friday at all, i'm pretty sure i'm way too borderline of a candidate, and my interview went well but not fantastic. I expect to be moderately depressed on friday hearing about all of those who are getting in, and then getting rejected from brown friday night (interview there was terrible).
After my cornell interview i called my mom and told her it was everything i've ever wanted in a medical school. she asked if i would still have said that if my college roommate didn't go there, and i told her without a doubt. i just wish i didn't feel so hopeless about my chances. Then i woudln't feel so compelled to make spreadsheets and narrow down the good and bad of every single other school.

 

[QTCL13]

QTCL13, it looks like we applied to, got interviews at, and acceptances to quite a few of the same schools. Why did you decide to withdraw from robert wood johnson? Did you see the actual campus?

I interviewed in New Brunswick which is the other clinical site, not at the Piscataway campus where students are for 1st and 2nd years. I have driven through the actual campus (years ago) but nothing really stands out in my mind so I can't help you with that one, sorry. I withdrew because I did not like the vibe I felt at the school when I went to interview. Everyone was very nice and enthusiastic about the school but I just didn't feel that it was a good fit. It's always hard to explain why but some specific things for me that I can pinpoint in writing are:
1.) I personally did not like the "disjointedness" (is this a word?) of the campuses. Too spread-out, not enough cohesion for me personally.
2.) It's too far from a major urban center for me. I'd prefer to be in the middle of a city.
3.) Have to have a car.I don't have one now, that would be another major expense that I really can't afford
4.) The tour guides mentioned that the classes are typicaly very young, most straight from college. I kinda felt this during our interactions with them.
5.) I was accepted to NJMS, my other state school, which I happened to like better and would attend over RWJMS if I could only choose between those two schools.

aaj, I think I remember during our presentation that people who interviewed at the clinical sites could go to the info session/tour part of the interview day in Piscataway to get a feel for it. I think you just have to email the admissions office. But with work/school considerations and having to take time off, I understand how that might not be feasible.

Sorry for the long post...I suppose the things I mentioned are some other considerations for me...maybe they'll help someone else out.

 

[LovelyMD]

I know everyone focuses on the way things are done the first two years (PBL vs. lots of lecture, grading, class schedule, etc), but are there any things we should be looking for in evaluating the clinical years and the way they're set up? Sometimes when I meet 3rd and 4th year students, I don't know what questions I should be asking.

 

[MsJLewis]

I know everyone focuses on the way things are done the first two years (PBL vs. lots of lecture, grading, class schedule, etc), but are there any things we should be looking for in evaluating the clinical years and the way they're set up? Sometimes when I meet 3rd and 4th year students, I don't know what questions I should be asking.

Yea this question has been bothering me too. I've been to a couple of schools where people would be like "The strength of this school is the clinical years!". I have no way to compare schools based on this. I guess flexibility in clinical years is something to look out for so you can arrange the rotations the way you want them (such as doing your surgery rotation early if that's what you want to go into). And patient population is good to consider as well. Another thing might be if there are a lot of med schools in the area (like NYC) you may not get all the interesting cases as you would if you were the only med school in town (like Pitt).

Anyone else have any insight?

 

[aaj117]

I know everyone focuses on the way things are done the first two years (PBL vs. lots of lecture, grading, class schedule, etc), but are there any things we should be looking for in evaluating the clinical years and the way they're set up? Sometimes when I meet 3rd and 4th year students, I don't know what questions I should be asking.

I think it's really important to ask how well they're prepared for the residency application process. I've heard fourth years at one school saying they were walked right through it, while others knew nothing about it and learned as they were applying on their own. I think this is pretty important because it reminds me of how helpful my prehealth advising committee was; without them i would have been totally lost, and the processes sound similar enoguh that i know i want support!

 

[RandomBlackManX]

I know everyone focuses on the way things are done the first two years (PBL vs. lots of lecture, grading, class schedule, etc), but are there any things we should be looking for in evaluating the clinical years and the way they're set up? Sometimes when I meet 3rd and 4th year students, I don't know what questions I should be asking.

I don't know what questions I should be asking, too. I always asked about patient diversity; beyond that, I have no clue what to ask 3rd or 4th years. aaj's post about being assisted throughout the application process for residency sounds awesome. I think I will definitely address that inquiry to students during revisit weekends.

 

[RandomBlackManX]

I'm thinking that my level of comfort and cost will probably be my two biggest criteria as well, though "level of comfort" is something I probably won't be able to assess too well until I attend revisit weekends and meet my future classmates. Level of comfort trumps cost though, so if I feel like I'm not comfortable at a school, then I won't take the $.

I'm trying not to take into consideration things like P/F vs. grades, simulation labs, etc, otherwise I feel like I'll be eliminating a lot of schools that I felt good about at my interview. For example, Emory probably has the most unappealing grading system out of all my schools (A/B/C/D/F, and you get an actual GPA), but I felt great there and I love the location. I don't think Hopkins and Michigan have sim labs yet (or at least they didn't show them to us), but I'd be hard pressed to turn them down as well.

For me, I think it's going to come down to level of comfort, cost, and just my gut feeling... which is kind of bad because I'm pretty indecisive and my gut feeling changes every day. That, and I'd be happy to attend all 9 of the schools that I haven't withdrawn from.

One of my friends who is currently an MS1 at Emory told me they made the first 18 months P/F! He said unless they mess it up for everyone else, it should be like that for us too.

 

[LovelyMD]

One of my friends who is currently an MS1 at Emory told me they made the first 18 months P/F! He said unless they mess it up for everyone else, it should be like that for us too.

Uh-oh, that was the only negative I could find about the school... crap, this is going to be tough. I really hope financial aid helps me figure things out.

EDIT: Never mind, I just remembered the fact that I'd have to buy a car. so there's one negative.

 

[alphaholic06]

I know everyone focuses on the way things are done the first two years (PBL vs. lots of lecture, grading, class schedule, etc), but are there any things we should be looking for in evaluating the clinical years and the way they're set up? Sometimes when I meet 3rd and 4th year students, I don't know what questions I should be asking.

One of the most important things that you can ask about the clinical years is, "how much hands-on experience do students get?" Are students allowed to deliver babies, suture, and do other procedures, or are you basically shadowing residents? The answer to these questions will help you evaluate the quality of clinical training offered at the school, and thus how well you will prepared for residency.

 

[njbmd]

I think it's really important to ask how well they're prepared for the residency application process. I've heard fourth years at one school saying they were walked right through it, while others knew nothing about it and learned as they were applying on their own. I think this is pretty important because it reminds me of how helpful my prehealth advising committee was; without them i would have been totally lost, and the processes sound similar enoguh that i know i want support!

This is a bit of a non-issue as application for residency is far easier than application for medical school. You can access Iserson's book about getting into various specialties at some point in your first year but you don't need much help with ERAS other than get your letters from your preceptors as early as you can. Don't wait until the last minute. There is no "walk-through" process and either you are competitive for your chosen specialty or you are not.

 

[aaj117]

Uh-oh, that was the only negative I could find about the school... crap, this is going to be tough. I really hope financial aid helps me figure things out.

EDIT: Never mind, I just remembered the fact that I'd have to buy a car. so there's one negative.

If i can have your spot at cornell, you can have my car. Seriously. 2005 Honda Civic Special Edition Sport- spoiler, 5CD changer with multiple subwoofers, alloy wheels, in great condition. Deal?

 

[flaahless]

If i can have your spot at cornell, you can have my car. Seriously. 2005 Honda Civic Special Edition Sport- spoiler, 5CD changer with multiple subwoofers, alloy wheels, in great condition. Deal?

I'll trade you an interview for the subwoofers and rims.

 

[LovelyMD]

If i can have your spot at cornell, you can have my car. Seriously. 2005 Honda Civic Special Edition Sport- spoiler, 5CD changer with multiple subwoofers, alloy wheels, in great condition. Deal?

Haha, if only a trade was as simple as that

 

[MSKalltheway]

If i can have your spot at cornell, you can have my car. Seriously. 2005 Honda Civic Special Edition Sport- spoiler, 5CD changer with multiple subwoofers, alloy wheels, in great condition. Deal?

You can have my spot if you put some chrome 18's on it, with a dual exhaust and twin turbos. If its a stick, I'll even give it to you after I take Step I.

(HAHAHA PS that deal is so not fair, Lovely gives up the spot AND saves you money that you wouldnt have to spend keeping that car in NYC!)

 

[QofQuimica]

This whole decision-making thing stinks. A lot is going to depend on money for me too, but i feel bad holding a lot of acceptances until i get financial aid packages months from now. Strangely i also feel really really bad turning down an acceptance, and i know i need to get over that.

Don't feel bad about holding on to multiple acceptances. A lot of you guys are competitive for scholarships or other non-loan aid, and you should not give up any acceptances anywhere prematurely before you are ready. If you think there is the slightest chance that you would attend school A if they gave you the $$, then hold on to them until you see what they offer. I'm not saying that you should be obnoxious and go around giving schools ultimatums, but don't be so nice either that you wind up taking out loans you don't have to take out.

I always felt bad about withdrawing from acceptances also; it's perfectly natural. You worked very hard to get them, there are things you like about each school, and choosing which school to attend is a major life decision. Every time you withdraw somewhere, you've just closed the door on one pathway open to you and narrowed your options. On the other hand, you're also opening up the options for someone else who really wants to attend that school. So when you're completely sure you don't want to attend School B but you're still reluctant to let it go, think of it like you're helping someone else out. That made it easier for me, anyway.

 

[aaj117]

You can have my spot if you put some chrome 18's on it, with a dual exhaust and twin turbos. If its a stick, I'll even give it to you after I take Step I.

(HAHAHA PS that deal is so not fair, Lovely gives up the spot AND saves you money that you wouldnt have to spend keeping that car in NYC!)

In fact it is a stick. I love my car. But you're right, the deal isn't fair, that's just how much i love cornell. I wish it were possible. Until that becomes possible, it looks like i'm going to have to try to get in on my own merits instead of lovely's. Only difficult since i already had my interview a month ago, i feel like there's not really much i can do now. Except add these features to my car and keep on bribing.

 

[Boogsie]

I'm from a city, and I love public transportation. For me, the amount of driving I will have to do is a huge consideration for me. It may seem strange to others, but I do not want to drive for 20-30 minutes to get home everyday after school.

Another complete random thing: a pool. I love to swim (I learned about two years ago). It's great exercise and very relaxing. If the school doesn't have a pool, then I will have to pay to use a private one nearby...money I don't want to spend.

Other not so random things:
Number of hospitals for rotations: It sounds great to have a lot, but standardization of learning may be harder that way.
Curriculum: I know I can learn in a traditional curriculum, can I learn in PBL? I think about that every day (no joke).
Number of hours in class: Some school have 8-12, while others have 8-5. Does this translate to the same amount of outside studying or twice as much??
Housing: Dorm or apartment? Its been a long time since I had to share a bathroom with a stranger...
Money: not just tuition, but for travel or whatever I want to do (research, aboard projects, etc) and the resources available to me.
Price: How much debt am I going to be in? I'm trying to keep it at about $100,000... (may not be able to do that at more than one school).
Community: Are the only black people I see on a regular basis going to be the other 5-10 in my class and the janitor. (Right now, the janitor is the only black person I see on a regular basis while in my lab and it makes me really mad).

 

[LovelyMD]

In fact it is a stick. I love my car. But you're right, the deal isn't fair, that's just how much i love cornell. I wish it were possible. Until that becomes possible, it looks like i'm going to have to try to get in on my own merits instead of lovely's. Only difficult since i already had my interview a month ago, i feel like there's not really much i can do now. Except add these features to my car and keep on bribing.

I can barely drive as it is, let alone drive a stick (sad, I know, but what can I say-- I'm a New Yorker!), so it looks like this deal is off!

 

[titanjones]

for medical school you should goto the best medical school you can get into regardless of the location. I think the med school you get into is even more important that the residency program you choose! Also location doesnt matter in the decision because once you start med school you will rarely go out more than 1-2x a week!

 

[RandomBlackManX]

for medical school you should goto the best medical school you can get into regardless of the location. I think the med school you get into is even more important that the residency program you choose! Also location doesnt matter in the decision because once you start med school you will rarely go out more than 1-2x a week!

I respectfully disagree.

 

[LovelyMD]

I respectfully disagree.

Yeah I kinda disagree with that too. Even if I'm going out only 1-2 times a week, I want to be able to do the things I want to do, go to the places I want to go to, or see the people I want to see.

 

[MSKalltheway]

for medical school you should goto the best medical school you can get into regardless of the location. I think the med school you get into is even more important that the residency program you choose! Also location doesnt matter in the decision because once you start med school you will rarely go out more than 1-2x a week!

I would also have to respectfully disagree. The reason is that you can go to Harvard for med school but a small community program for residency, compared to attending one of the lesser recognized med schools and getting into one of Harvards residency programs and be much better off professionaly opting for the MGH residency, if you had to choose one or the other. Pedigree can help you if all things are equal, but since med school doesnt teach you very much compared to residency, getting into a great residency program is much more important IMHO.

There are great and good med schools, but no bad ones, while there are great, good, and bad residencies (ones people try to avoid at all costs-- they exist in every field and generally dont fill on match day). For me, the ranking system I used to pick med schools went something like this:

1) proximity to my SO
2) overall feel of the school
3) proximity to my parents
4) location (this can make a difference in terms of the type of patients you see)
5) cost
6) prestige

I would suggest all of you figure out what is important in a med school to you, then look at your list of acceptances at the end of the day and go from there. Where you go wont matter if you dont do well. Where you go also doesnt matter if you do very well, so if you love Howard but hate Hopkins, go with your gut, everyone has to learn the same stuff anyway! Steps 1 and 2 are the great equalizers...

 

[njbmd]

for medical school you should goto the best medical school you can get into regardless of the location. I think the med school you get into is even more important that the residency program you choose! Also location doesnt matter in the decision because once you start med school you will rarely go out more than 1-2x a week!

It turns out that the medical school that you get into isn't as important as your performance in that medical school. My school was definitely not even in the top 50 year yet graduates in my class entered residency at every top residency program and in every specialty. We had a 100% match rate and sent folks to Brigham (Harvard) in Medicine and Anesthesia, Hopkins (surgery, optho and medicine), Mayo Clinic (derm, medicine, orth surgery), UCLA and Stanford (surgery) and other top programs. These folks had great grades and board scores but the important thing was that everyone matched.

We had our share of partying and down-time. Everyone needs this and one does need to be able to get to places either by public transportation or driving if need be. It was quite important for many of my classmates to be able to get home (some were from Cali & Fla too) so being close to a good airport or train (from some locations) was good. All in all, especially with the scholarship that I obtained, I was extremely happy with my choice of medical school. Not only was I able to do well, I am an excellent physician due to the excellent teaching that I received.

The reputation of the medical school that you attend is meaningless unless you are comfortable and able to do well. If you hate your school, hate your classmates and have to "move mountains" to get to class every day, you are not going to perform very well and residency program directors won't be very interested in you.