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I applied to 15 or 16.
Crushed by clinical psychology
- Thread starter Cortex613
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I applied to 15 or 16.
Sanman
O.G.
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You may want to look into Community Psychology programs as well.
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Did you receive any feedback from any of the programs/interviews regarding their consideration of students with master's degrees? There are *some* programs/professors who will not accept applicants who have a master's degree. I ran across a few of them during my second application cycle. I had one who even forewarned me during my phone interview before deciding to invite me to their "official" interview that it would be unlikely I receive an acceptance as they rarely accept students with master's degrees due to the program's preferences (and the prof repeated the message at the interview, i.e., my acceptance would be a hard sell to the program). This may be program specific or professor specific . . . I lucked out and eventually ended up with a professor who actually preferred students with a master's. I also seem to recall that there were a handful of programs out there who preferred master's degrees (although I think they were mostly counseling psych programs?).
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I did check every school's website but didn't find anything. However, as a matter of fact, I know for sure that every lab I interviewed at, had at least one current student with a master's degree.
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Ultimately, I cannot tell you for sure whether I am 'interpersonally off' (whatever that may mean), but again, I felt very good about the interviews itself. I was engaged, asked questions, and never felt 'awkward' and I don't think I left people feeling that way.
During my master's program, I worked with a professor who had very clinical research interests, so as part of that I lead a weekly group. I got positive feedback from both my prof (who is a clinical psychologist) as well as the people attending the group. Moreover, I got positive feedback from my current mentor about being very personal when interacting with our study participants.
And then: Why would people email my mentor and tell him they were very impressed by me when, in fact, they just thought I was really awkward?
Yes, three times is a lot...
My thought is that it is possible that you did well with POI's on interviews, but there might have been some "off" interaction with non-POI faculty or students. So, even if POI's were really impressed, didn't think you were awkward, and wanted to admit you, when they went back to the admissions committee, concerns were raised by others, and an offer was made to someone else first. Many clinical programs are hypersensitive to even a hint that you would have social or interpersonal issues. A person may be lovely, but a little misstep can be blown up and keep a person from an offer.
Did you make it to the wait lists? I can't remember if you mentioned that. I would think that would be a positive sigh that this is not what is happening.
Again, not meaning to be harsh, just trying to offer an explanation of what has happened with others in case there are parts of it that may apply.
I'd also encourage you to recognize that there are many paths to a happy life. Clinical psych isn't the be all and end all. You don't need a clinical PhD to be happy.
Best,
Dr. E
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Again, ultimately, I can't tell for sure.But I didn't walk away feeling like I made anybody feel awkward about interacting with me. The "being friendly and all" was actually more in respect to interacting with people outside of the formal interviews than anything else.
In terms of the waitlist, I know I was waitlisted at my top choice (not sure what position, though). I don't know about the other two programs, but also keep in my mind that I was accepted into a program that actually was the most clinical of all four.
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Yes, I researched every single program and professor. I emailed every single one to make sure they accepted students and they all initially said they were very impressed with me (I sent my CV when I emailed them).
I'm just trying to figure out what went wrong. I've done everything I'm supposed to and yet, I seem to have the worst luck :-(
I'm just trying to figure out what went wrong. I've done everything I'm supposed to and yet, I seem to have the worst luck :-(
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I have the exact same feeling but I've already spent 5 years pursuing the degree. This is my second year (4th "phase") of not matching for internship. Barring unforeseeable circumstances, I'll be withdrawing from my program. Last year, I had a 1 in 7 shot that the faculty at my program sabotaged. This year, I had a 1 in 14 shot that just didn't work out (as far as I know). Luck seems to play way too large a factor in this profession. At least you're finding that out now.
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They were at the time you applied, but are you certain they did for certain accept a student in the end? This was going to be my next inquiry after the master's degree thing. (Not all programs have a written rule that they will not accept students with master's degrees, but if you know they have students already there with master's degrees--then you should be good to go.) I had some faculty I applied to who were accepting students in the beginning of the app cycle who backed out by the time interviews came around and/or by the time offers were made. Your app may be reviewed by others in the dept or it may not, depending upon who else may "fit" your needs and how how you packaged yourself when you applied to those programs.
It really does sound like you ended up with the short end of the stick, as your stats seem fine. I wish you the best with whatever path you end up following.
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You seem to have a LOT in common with me, actually. I don't remember all of your details from your posts, but I have a clinical masters with a thesis, some hard-core and specific research projects, and a primary interest in research as a career. I also have some clinical experience (and 'real life' experience before that, which lead me to my current research interest). I applied to 9 clinical programs and didn't hear a peep. I also applied to an experimental program, which I thought was my top choice because it was working with my current mentor, interviewed, and I was told that it wasn't a good fit because I'm too clinical (??). I also applied to 4 counseling psych programs and interviewed at two--accepted to both. The counseling psych programs both lean towards practice. I'm going to one of those, so I'm going to make the best of it. I had a classmate in grad school who is now a PsyD and is doing a research post-doc, and he convinced me that it is possible to focus on research in a practice-oriented program. He emphasized that you just have to work at it, and he actually said it was preferable in some ways because he got to do what he wanted to do, rather than just his mentor's research.
If you have an acceptance, consider taking it. You can make it what you want to make it. At least, that is what I am hoping to do!
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They were at the time you applied, but are you certain they did for certain accept a student in the end? This was going to be my next inquiry after the master's degree thing. (Not all programs have a written rule that they will not accept students with master's degrees, but if you know they have students already there with master's degrees--then you should be good to go.) I had some faculty I applied to who were accepting students in the beginning of the app cycle who backed out by the time interviews came around and/or by the time offers were made. Your app may be reviewed by others in the dept or it may not, depending upon who else may "fit" your needs and how how you packaged yourself when you applied to those programs.
It really does sound like you ended up with the short end of the stick, as your stats seem fine. I wish you the best with whatever path you end up following.
No, I didn't follow up with professors after the initial contact whether they were taking students. So, obviously that's a possibility but I doubt that the majority backed out after telling me that they're taking a student.
I just I knew what it is about my application that's causing these problems. Nobody can pinpoint it and everybody is just in disbelief.
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You seem to have a LOT in common with me, actually. I don't remember all of your details from your posts, but I have a clinical masters with a thesis, some hard-core and specific research projects, and a primary interest in research as a career. I also have some clinical experience (and 'real life' experience before that, which lead me to my current research interest). I applied to 9 clinical programs and didn't hear a peep. I also applied to an experimental program, which I thought was my top choice because it was working with my current mentor, interviewed, and I was told that it wasn't a good fit because I'm too clinical (??). I also applied to 4 counseling psych programs and interviewed at two--accepted to both. The counseling psych programs both lean towards practice. I'm going to one of those, so I'm going to make the best of it. I had a classmate in grad school who is now a PsyD and is doing a research post-doc, and he convinced me that it is possible to focus on research in a practice-oriented program. He emphasized that you just have to work at it, and he actually said it was preferable in some ways because he got to do what he wanted to do, rather than just his mentor's research.
If you have an acceptance, consider taking it. You can make it what you want to make it. At least, that is what I am hoping to do!
Yeah, but where is this going to leave me in the long run? I'm not worried about doing research just for the sake of doing research (I'm sure I can do that) but I've seen the kind of research people did at my master's program which was with little to no funding and participants were primarily drawn from the student body. This is not what I want to do. AS it is, clinical psych is cut-throat already, so I'm not sure I want to set myself up this way.
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Well, as far as research, a doctoral program is different than a masters program--you can apply for your own independent funding if you have someone to mentor you (which, of course, you will). I'm not sure that drawing from the student body is inherently a bad thing, but it depends on what/who you want to study, of course. It can be a GREAT resource, especially at an institution that utilizes a student pool such as experimetrix.
If you do have a specific population you want to work with, there are more ways to do that than through a doctoral program. If you are tired of the application process (which I totally get--this was my last cycle regardless of outcome), why not find another path? This forum is not a friendly place to explore that, because everyone is so narrowly-minded on graduate school, but life is full of possibilities outside of grad school. There are so many ways to make a difference. Even though I'm sure you don't want to hear that right now--you may need some time to grieve the loss of this and explore your interests. This process is horrendous, disheartening, often random, and not up to us to decide...but it's also not everything!
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Oh, I know! And I'm not saying it's what led to all of them, but if you have a few programs that were wiped out because of this, a few that were wiped out because of the master's thing, a few eliminated for some other convoluted thing, then you may have only had a realistic chance at a very few of those programs to which you applied initially.
I can certainly empathize as I went through the app cycle multiple times with similar stats, and I lucked out by being accepted off a waitlist in the end. I constantly questioned what the heck was wrong with my app when I *know* that my stats were better than many and that my fit was more than phenomenal at places. And then I didn't even land an interview at those places.
After seeing the way that a few folks have selected a handful of people to interview around here, I can't say I'm surprised that some stellar people get overlooked.
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As in, logging the posts made here on SDN? Is that seriously a category listed somewhere in T2T (I've never used it myself, so forgive my ignorance)? If so, that'd actually be pretty darn funny.
If you want to work at a medical center doing research and seeing patients, have you considered a PhD in social work or other non clinical PhD such as counseling or school psych? A PhD in social work can get you a research position in a medical school with a patient load. I have an MSW and know several social work MSWs and PhDs that do the kind of work you want to do.
I've been there too. I decided to do the PsyD route because my GRE scores were mediocre and I could not get above a 1200 no matter how hard I studied (I'm intelligent but just bad a test like these). The PsyD degree is not as strict on GRE scores and likes research experience but does not require a publication to get into a program. The PsyD route is more clinically focused but graduates from my program and other university-based programs like mine work at medical settings and med schools. It took me two tries to get into a program. I would either try again and/or find a degree that allows you to do what you want to do for a career goal. if you want to work at a med school and do research, a PhD in social work can get you there too. The training is different though. Hope this helps.
Hi,
Thank you so much for the feedback.
It turns out that the other school I interviewed with put me on the waitlist. It's an okay university (APA accredited) but their match rates are not so great.
I am not sure what to think / do now. Wait, I suppose.
Thank you so much for the feedback.
It turns out that the other school I interviewed with put me on the waitlist. It's an okay university (APA accredited) but their match rates are not so great.
I am not sure what to think / do now. Wait, I suppose.
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probably the interviews from what I can glean from your posts.
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To Marissa4usa,
Definitely sounds like you are qualified for programs. Like Dr. E says it likely came down to something interpersonal or some other 'intangible'. These programs are crazy competitive as you know. DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP. It's hard to let go and realize you don't have control over every aspect of this process. Some of it is just dumb luck.
Definitely sounds like you are qualified for programs. Like Dr. E says it likely came down to something interpersonal or some other 'intangible'. These programs are crazy competitive as you know. DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP. It's hard to let go and realize you don't have control over every aspect of this process. Some of it is just dumb luck.
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I know you're saying this with the best intentions but it's hard not beat oneself up if it's something interpersonal
. It kind of like "well, don't feel bad, you didn't get in because you suck interpersonally" ...lol
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I know you're saying this with the best intentions but it's hard not beat oneself up if it's something interpersonal
Ha, no, that's definitely NOT what I meant. I actually meant exactly the opposite. The issue is that everybody you are competing with are probably great interpersonally. Some times it can come down to the most minute differences - I have a friend who told me that during interviews he and a POI had a conversation about, of all things, the Alien movie series. When everybody has great academic chops it might come down to something that stupid as to who gets an offer, which he did. Did the other people interpersonally suck because they didn't get on that subject? No!
However, I do understand what you feel with the above post. I was outright rejected from the PhD program at my Master's school- from the very people who wrote my letters of rec!! I was hurt- thinking that it was interpersonally my fault, that I was a bad person somehow. And 3 times around is crushing. Take time to lick your wounds so you can eventually find the resolve to press on. Keep in mind, though, that the more you beat yourself up now the more you'll psych yourself out later at interviews.
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I can see the new "Getting in" Guide Chapter: Capitalizing on the high probability of interest in science fiction among POIs during campus interviews
It is true though. Stuff like this where people find common ground is often the difference maker. But it can't be forced. I know I got one of my offers because of a similar type of situation...
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I can see the new "Getting in" Guide Chapter: Capitalizing on the high probability of interest in science fiction among POIs during campus interviews
It is true though. Stuff like this where people find common ground is often the difference maker. But it can't be forced. I know I got one of my offers because of a similar type of situation...
Agreed. Persistence, as has probably already been mentioned, can also be important (or irritating, depending on the POI). I received my offer solely because I remained in frequent contact with my advisor, who admittedly is a rather awesome person overall, after interviews.
Although I'm pretty sure that being a fan of the Alien series is objective verification that the person is, indeed, staggeringly well-qualified for life in general
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Maybe ask them as a follow-up if you can get in the same World of Warcraft team within a week of the campus interview
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Maybe ask them as a follow-up if you can get in the same World of Warcraft team within a week of the campus interview
Hah, or at least turn in a separate CV (complete with references) of WoW accomplishments to date.
And now I've sufficiently derailed the thread, my apologies.
I have a questions about USUHS: I was actually looking at the web site for this school yesterday, and there is a statement that says that after graduation military service is not required - it appears there is a military track and civilian track for their Clinical PhD. Can you clarify about this?
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Being a vocational rehab counselor I empathize very much with how dissapointing this has been for you. I am considering a PhD or PsyD, I haven;t taken the GRE yet, and for sure I do not nearly have the experience you have. That scares ME and makes me wonder what MY chances are. But... to offfer some perspective and hope... 1) Looking at all your years of experience and education do you feel you are capable and marketable to pursue some line of work if you find a doctoral degree in psych just ends up not being for you? Or, are you dissatisfied enough with your current situatoin that you will do anything to make it better? 2) What are your personal strengths? You did mention some, but what about personal qualities in addition to education and experiences - it may be good to journal about them - I believe - and know that research shows - that journaling is very helpful in the emotional working-thorugh of feeling stuck, discouraged, etc. I'm not saying that any or all the factors for not being accepted to programs is internal, attitude, etc. - there could be external or other objective factors - but sometimes an honest appraisal of what makes you so special can be very inspiring. 3) So, those other two points were kind of about - looking back at the situation, but the third thing I will say is this. One of my favorite quotes! "Never, never, never give up!" -Winston Churchill.
What I hear is you are extremely persistent and you don't give up. Many would have given up by now. The fact that you have persisted and have been dissapointed just shows you have very high and good expectations for your life. (One last thought... I wonder... what all the ways your sense of purpose which you are now directing soley on psychology entails. Not saying to give up on psychology. Just wondering, are there other unexplored aspects of what you dream for your future... )
One last bit of inspiration: Beethoven, by age 26 lbegan losing his hearing. After years of hard work as a musician the last thing a musician would want is to lose the function of hearing. He became depressed, had social difficulties, and became suicidal. He also suffered from horrible abdominal pain. It is likely he had bipolar disorder. He wrote, But, think that for six years now I have been hopelessly afflicted, made worse by senseless physicians, from year to year deceived with hopes of improvement, finally compelled to face the prospect of a lasting malady (whose cure will take years or, perhaps, be impossible). He lived in a day without modern meds, or advanced hearing aids. He used a horn-shaped device to hear. He eventually totally lost his hearing, but he kept composing and performing. He never commited suicide, because he found renewed purpose and meaning for life through his work. After conducting his 9th symphony (deaf) he did not realize the audience was giving a massive applause until he turned around and saw, and wept. What an amazing human being who went through so incredibly much difficulty, and in a time when medicine and rehabilitation services were not available like today.
My other favorite quote:
"Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succede is always to try just one more time." Thomas Edison.
and makes me wonder what MY chances are. But... to offfer some perspective and hope... 1) Looking at all your years of experience and education do you feel you are capable and marketable to pursue some line of work if you find a doctoral degree in psych just ends up not being for you? Or, are you dissatisfied enough with your current situatoin that you will do anything to make it better? 2) What are your personal strengths? You did mention some, but what about personal qualities in addition to education and experiences - it may be good to journal about them - I believe - and know that research shows - that journaling is very helpful in the emotional working-thorugh of feeling stuck, discouraged, etc. I'm not saying that any or all the factors for not being accepted to programs is internal, attitude, etc. - there could be external or other objective factors - but sometimes an honest appraisal of what makes you so special can be very inspiring. 3) So, those other two points were kind of about - looking back at the situation, but the third thing I will say is this. One of my favorite quotes! "Never, never, never give up!" -Winston Churchill. What I hear is you are extremely persistent and you don't give up. Many would have given up by now. The fact that you have persisted and have been dissapointed just shows you have very high and good expectations for your life. (One last thought... I wonder... what all the ways your sense of purpose which you are now directing soley on psychology entails. Not saying to give up on psychology. Just wondering, are there other unexplored aspects of what you dream for your future... )
One last bit of inspiration: Beethoven, by age 26 lbegan losing his hearing. After years of hard work as a musician the last thing a musician would want is to lose the function of hearing. He became depressed, had social difficulties, and became suicidal. He also suffered from horrible abdominal pain. It is likely he had bipolar disorder. He wrote, But, think that for six years now I have been hopelessly afflicted, made worse by senseless physicians, from year to year deceived with hopes of improvement, finally compelled to face the prospect of a lasting malady (whose cure will take years or, perhaps, be impossible). He lived in a day without modern meds, or advanced hearing aids. He used a horn-shaped device to hear. He eventually totally lost his hearing, but he kept composing and performing. He never commited suicide, because he found renewed purpose and meaning for life through his work. After conducting his 9th symphony (deaf) he did not realize the audience was giving a massive applause until he turned around and saw, and wept. What an amazing human being who went through so incredibly much difficulty, and in a time when medicine and rehabilitation services were not available like today.
My other favorite quote:
"Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. The most certain way to succede is always to try just one more time." Thomas Edison.
As long as they were not displaying some seriously abnormal pathology (will never happen), I just don't see how a student can actually believe they will be telling the professor something they don't already know. When a professor asks me what I think of a candidate following the interview, I just pretty much say whatever it is that got the candidate there in the first place (good research experience, seems motivated). I'm just saying be careful in that situation. There is more than one person in that room being interviewed.
I just could never give negative ratings of a candidate. I was one once. Students who do that on interview day, troll the meeting room to try and judge candidates, are hiding some serious antagonistic traits. Pathetic.
I just could never give negative ratings of a candidate. I was one once. Students who do that on interview day, troll the meeting room to try and judge candidates, are hiding some serious antagonistic traits. Pathetic.
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Your average accepted candidate nowadays has a MUCH stronger CV than someone accepted to the very same program just 5 years ago. A lot of great people get passed over. This poster probably has only been applying to very high ranked programs (all of which are heavy research). I admire their uncompromising desire to attend an excellent program. Most of us lack that kind of will power following the first rejection and dramatically lower our standards.
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Was that first statement at dig at my clinical skills? I am not working as a psychologist here and what occurs on this board is not psychotherapy. Here I am only posting information to strangers based on my own personal experiences in a clinical psychology PhD program.
To answer your question, the woman in my story was in fact my friend and I kept up with her even after she was kicked out of our program. She suffered greatly because she was dead set on following a dream that was inappropriate for her.
And to clarify, it was not only the students in the program concerned about her interpersonal skills upon meeting her. The faculty were equally concerned. This wasn't a "you don't have the right shoes" type of judgement. This was a "you have serious personality pathology" type of concern.
Again, I did not say that this was what was happening to the OP. I just provided it as an angle to be considered.
Dr. E
Gotcha. Not to belabor this, but the first sentence was not directed at your skills, but in reference to a comment made about a rejected candidate possibly lacking in interpersonal/clinical skills.
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Grad students shouldn't wail on a candidate simply because they didn't like the person a little bit, but if they have significant reservations about this person's ability to get along interpersonally with other members of the lab (particularly if based on behaviors exhibited in the professor's absence), I don't see anything wrong with students voicing these concerns in a mature way. After all, I'm sure we'd all agree that a person is more than his/her CV, with this potentially going both ways (i.e., good and bad).
Personally, I've never had it be an issue, and have thus never brought it to a faculty member's attention. But just in my own anecdotal experience, I can think of a few cases where grad students had concerns about interviewees that were apparently not noticed by professors and which ultimately directly contributed to those individuals eventually leaving the program after a year or two (e.g., ethical and work habit concerns, ability to receive supervision, etc.).
It's a fine line, to be sure, though.
