Cs in core classes - chances?

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viola23

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Hi all,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. I'm a senior this year and planning to apply in the 2021 cycle. I think my application overall is strong (top 10 undergrad, 518 MCAT, 2 years of research experience + my PI has already agreed to take me on in my gap year), but unfortunately I have a few bad grades in core science classes from my freshman and sophomore years - I have a C- in both Orgo I and II, C+ in Bio I and B+ in Bio II. I'm not going to try to sell a sob story like my grandma died or I was going through stuff or anything like that; I take full responsibility for them. Really what happened was I went to small independent schools from K-12 that just didn't *do* high-stakes testing, not even APs. All of my high school classes were 10 person seminars with final projects instead of exams.

My first experience with real *tests* (besides the SATs, which don't count as they are not hard) were in Orgo and Bio, which at my school are notorious premed "weeder" classes, and for my first two years I struggled to get the hang of taking tests under time pressure with questions that seemed engineered to trip students up, which was totally alien to me. I worked my butt off going to office hours, reading textbooks cover to cover, doing practice problems, and finally I "got it" sometime in the middle of sophomore year. Last fall I took Biochem, another weeder class, but got an A. Unfortunately by this point I already had those grades on my transcript, and as I am not a science major these really tanked my sGPA (2.9), although my overall GPA is a 3.7.

I'm wondering, how screwed am I because of this? :uhno: Will med schools be willing to weight the improvement in my academic performance, or no? Also, ideally I would want to go MD-PhD, but it would not be the end of the world for me if I end up doing MD-only somewhere.

Thanks!

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I suggest taking a year of undergraduate upper level science courses at a local college in the coming year to raise your sGPA to over 3.0 . Otherwise you could be screened out at many schools. You could apply to DO schools this year and could receive interviews.
 
Really?? Wow, that is a lot worse than I thought. :eek: What classes would you suggest? My PI wants me to try to get a first-author manuscript published in my gap year so I don't know how I will be able to balance that with taking a full courseload and also traveling for interviews
 
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Hi all,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. I'm a senior this year and planning to apply in the 2021 cycle. I think my application overall is strong (top 10 undergrad, 518 MCAT, 2 years of research experience + my PI has already agreed to take me on in my gap year), but unfortunately I have a few bad grades in core science classes from my freshman and sophomore years - I have a C- in both Orgo I and II, C+ in Bio I and B+ in Bio II. I'm not going to try to sell a sob story like my grandma died or I was going through stuff or anything like that; I take full responsibility for them. Really what happened was I went to small independent schools from K-12 that just didn't *do* high-stakes testing, not even APs. All of my high school classes were 10 person seminars with final projects instead of exams.

My first experience with real *tests* (besides the SATs, which don't count as they are not hard) were in Orgo and Bio, which at my school are notorious premed "weeder" classes, and for my first two years I struggled to get the hang of taking tests under time pressure with questions that seemed engineered to trip students up, which was totally alien to me. I worked my butt off going to office hours, reading textbooks cover to cover, doing practice problems, and finally I "got it" sometime in the middle of sophomore year. Last fall I took Biochem, another weeder class, but got an A. Unfortunately by this point I already had those grades on my transcript, and as I am not a science major these really tanked my sGPA (2.9), although my overall GPA is a 3.7.

I'm wondering, how screwed am I because of this? :uhno: Will med schools be willing to weight the improvement in my academic performance, or no? Also, ideally I would want to go MD-PhD, but it would not be the end of the world for me if I end up doing MD-only somewhere.

Thanks!

In the core science courses, medical schools will set a lowest acceptable grade cutoff. I'm not sure C-minuses make the cutoff. I suggest you look up some target medical schools including your state schools to see what they say about that. If I were you, I'd retake Orgo I and Orgo II via a do-it-yourself postbacc and aim to make As. I'd take enough postbacc credits to raise the sGPA to at least a 3.0 - ideally higher.

How were your other science grades?
 
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Really?? Wow, that is a lot worse than I thought. :eek: What classes would you suggest? My PI wants me to try to get a first-author manuscript published in my gap year so I don't know how I will be able to balance that with taking a full courseload and also traveling for interviews

You'd have to take a second gap year. If you take courses in your second gap year, not all of them will show up in time to be included in your new and improved sGPA.
 
and also traveling for interviews
You won’t receive interviews unless you can demonstrate your ability to excel in science coursework. A gap year with near perfect grades in post-bacc science classes will help with that.
 
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Also, who are these PIs that guarantee a first-author publication with a year of research, and where can I find them?
 
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In the core science courses, medical schools will set a lowest acceptable grade cutoff. I'm not sure C-minuses make the cutoff. I suggest you look up some target medical schools including your state schools to see what they say about that. If I were you, I'd retake Orgo I and Orgo II via a do-it-yourself postbacc and aim to make As. I'd take enough postbacc credits to raise the sGPA to at least a 3.0 - ideally higher.

How were your other science grades?
I got an A- in physics and an A- in Calculus, unfortunately second semester all my classes were pass/fail.
 
Also, who are these PIs that guarantee a first-author publication with a year of research, and where can I find them?
No need to be snarky. It's obviously not guaranteed but this is meant to be the culmination of 3 years of work in his lab.
 
Hi all,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. I'm a senior this year and planning to apply in the 2021 cycle. I think my application overall is strong (top 10 undergrad, 518 MCAT, 2 years of research experience + my PI has already agreed to take me on in my gap year), but unfortunately I have a few bad grades in core science classes from my freshman and sophomore years - I have a C- in both Orgo I and II, C+ in Bio I and B+ in Bio II. I'm not going to try to sell a sob story like my grandma died or I was going through stuff or anything like that; I take full responsibility for them. Really what happened was I went to small independent schools from K-12 that just didn't *do* high-stakes testing, not even APs. All of my high school classes were 10 person seminars with final projects instead of exams.

My first experience with real *tests* (besides the SATs, which don't count as they are not hard) were in Orgo and Bio, which at my school are notorious premed "weeder" classes, and for my first two years I struggled to get the hang of taking tests under time pressure with questions that seemed engineered to trip students up, which was totally alien to me. I worked my butt off going to office hours, reading textbooks cover to cover, doing practice problems, and finally I "got it" sometime in the middle of sophomore year. Last fall I took Biochem, another weeder class, but got an A. Unfortunately by this point I already had those grades on my transcript, and as I am not a science major these really tanked my sGPA (2.9), although my overall GPA is a 3.7.

I'm wondering, how screwed am I because of this? :uhno: Will med schools be willing to weight the improvement in my academic performance, or no? Also, ideally I would want to go MD-PhD, but it would not be the end of the world for me if I end up doing MD-only somewhere.

Thanks!
What are your year by year GPAs?
Read this:
 
In the core science courses, medical schools will set a lowest acceptable grade cutoff. I'm not sure C-minuses make the cutoff. I suggest you look up some target medical schools including your state schools to see what they say about that. If I were you, I'd retake Orgo I and Orgo II via a do-it-yourself postbacc and aim to make As. I'd take enough postbacc credits to raise the sGPA to at least a 3.0 - ideally higher.
Also, we have received *very* mixed messages so far but I have heard that classes that meet certain criteria (very large, or online, or taught on an abbreviated schedule) may continue to be pass fail for as long as the pandemic lasts
 
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Also, we have received *very* mixed messages so far but I have heard that classes that meet certain criteria (very large, or online, or taught on an abbreviated schedule) may continue to be pass fail for as long as the pandemic lasts

So, thinking outside the box a little, does it make sense to take your gap year now - ie take a one year leave of absence to conduct research full time with your PI - and then return to school once things normalize and you can get straight As?

I've read that lots of students are considering the same move just to avoid paying $60k/year in tuition for a strictly online experience.
 
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So, thinking outside the box a little, does it make sense to take your gap year now - ie take a one year leave of absence to conduct research full time with your PI - and then return to school once things normalize and you can get straight As?

I've read that lots of students are considering the same move just to avoid paying $60k/year in tuition for a strictly online experience.
That's a very interesting idea. Classes start in 3 weeks though so it would take some doing but I will look into it/talk to my parents/academic advisor. The downside though is that research capacity is still restricted somewhat (everybody's in-lab hours are limited and things are moving very slowly due to cutbacks in tech support and turnaround times from external vendors etc.) so I am not sure how productive I could be this year.
 
That's a very interesting idea. Classes start in 3 weeks though so it would take some doing but I will look into it/talk to my parents/academic advisor. The downside though is that research capacity is still restricted somewhat (everybody's in-lab hours are limited and things are moving very slowly due to cutbacks in tech support and turnaround times from external vendors etc.) so I am not sure how productive I could be this year.

I hear you.

You'd also have to work out housing. Doubt you'd be allowed to stay on campus if you're not a student. And then there's the issue of health insurance if you're not a student.

I bet a lot of students are considering this option, though, which may make it easier to get approval for the one year leave of absence
 
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MCAT scores are usually good for 3 years from the test date to date of matriculation in a medical school. A few schools have 2 or 4 year expiration dates.

A lot of MD/PhD candidates take gap years to do additional research. MD only candidates need higher clinical experience and nonclinical volunteer hours.

Just throwing out more food for thought.
 
Really?? Wow, that is a lot worse than I thought. :eek: What classes would you suggest? My PI wants me to try to get a first-author manuscript published in my gap year so I don't know how I will be able to balance that with taking a full courseload and also traveling for interviews
You do not need to take a full course load. Just take enough upper level science courses at a local college to raise your sGPA to 3.0 . Then you can apply a year from now.
 
Ace your SR year and then apply as if your JR + SR years are the true sGPA.
Thanks! I am also considering taking a research year now and returning when classes are back to letter grades as I'm pretty sure I can make a GPA bump. What schools do you think are realistic for me? I'm pretty sure I can maintain a 3.7 (at least) senior year also - do you think any T25s would be willing to overlook the freshman/sophomore grades?
 
Thanks! I am also considering taking a research year now and returning when classes are back to letter grades as I'm pretty sure I can make a GPA bump. What schools do you think are realistic for me? I'm pretty sure I can maintain a 3.7 (at least) senior year also - do you think any T25s would be willing to overlook the freshman/sophomore grades?
You job is to get into A medical school, and not focus on T-anything. As a reinventor, you will need some DO schools on your list as well. Beggars can't be choosy.
I suggest:
I recommend:

Columbia

Vandy

Dartmouth

BU

Duke

Pitt

Mayo

Mt Sinai

Keck

UCSF

EVMS

U Miami

Hofstra

Emory

Jefferson

Drexel

Albany

Tufts

NYMC

Your state schools

Rush

Loyola

Rosy Franklin

Tulane

Wake

MCW

SLU

Creighton

Wayne State

Netter

NYU.LI

Any DO program. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.
 
You job is to get into A medical school, and not focus on T-anything. As a reinventor, you will need some DO schools on your list as well. Beggars can't be choosy.
I suggest:
I recommend:

Columbia

Vandy

Dartmouth

BU

Duke

Pitt

Mayo

Mt Sinai

Keck

UCSF

EVMS

U Miami

Hofstra

Emory

Jefferson

Drexel

Albany

Tufts

NYMC

Your state schools

Rush

Loyola

Rosy Franklin

Tulane

Wake

MCW

SLU

Creighton

Wayne State

Netter

NYU.LI

Any DO program. I can't recommend Nova, Wm Carey, BCOM, ICOM and LUCOM, for different reasons. MSUCOM? Read up on Larry Nasser and you decide. LMU has an accreditation warning, which concerns me. CUHS is too new and appears to be too limited in rotations sites. UIW refuses to post their Boards scores, which is fishy.
I guess I'm just trying to narrow down what category of schools is realistic for me. I want to go to the best school I can but I have no attachment to name recognition for its own sake, I'd be quite satisfied ending up at a good state school.

That seems like quite a spread. Is it common to apply to T10s while I'm also considering DO schools? To be honest I don't want to apply anywhere I wouldn't have a snowball's chance just because it's prestigious either, that seems like a waste of time and money. Columbia, Mayo, UCSF seem like pretty high reaches even if I had perfect grades?
 
I hear you.

You'd also have to work out housing. Doubt you'd be allowed to stay on campus if you're not a student. And then there's the issue of health insurance if you're not a student.

I bet a lot of students are considering this option, though, which may make it easier to get approval for the one year leave of absence
That's true - my PI would pay me if I was full time so I'm pretty sure I could get an apartment if I needed to. I also have a car that just sits at my parents' place during the school year normally but I can bring it in case I need to commute. I'm still on my parents' health insurance so that's probably less of an issue at least.
 
I guess I'm just trying to narrow down what category of schools is realistic for me. I want to go to the best school I can but I have no attachment to name recognition for its own sake, I'd be quite satisfied ending up at a good state school.

That seems like quite a spread. Is it common to apply to T10s while I'm also considering DO schools? To be honest I don't want to apply anywhere I wouldn't have a snowball's chance just because it's prestigious either, that seems like a waste of time and money. Columbia, Mayo, UCSF seem like pretty high reaches even if I had perfect grades?
The schools I gave you reward reinvention.
 
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