CSULB Pre Med Student getting Discouraged

[westsidestoryz]

So I have been reading a lot of threads on here and outside SDN about CSUs Vs UCs and how the undergrad school you are from impacts the selection process.

It went something like this:
60% said school shouldn't matter as long as you are a top candidate (>3.5 GPA, MCAT score 30-45, unique EC activities)
40% said CSUs are a "lower" tier school so the science GPA from CSU vs UCs are viewed different. (Obviously a 3.7 GPA from a CSU is better than a 3.3 GPA from a UC, but a tied GPA would mean UC applicant would be viewed more favorably).

So I am currently attending CSULB and have a GPA of 3.4 with no sGPA since I am a non-traditional student. Hopefully I can get a 4.0 sGPA and raise my overall GPA in that way. (I'm guessing overall of 3.6-3.7)

I am also currently volunteering at a hospital in the Cardiology Unit working with patients and nurses. (100+ hours so far over 5 month period. (**Will continue to do this for another 6 or so months**).
I am also calling local clinics if I can shadow the doctors.
I am emailing a bunch of professors if I can be a Research Volunteer since the UC schools are research heavy. (tough since I am a non-traditional student and the department favors Bio majors)
I will also be traveling to Africa this winter to work with the local doctors and missionaries to help build schools, homes, and provide First Aid treatment.

I am doing the best that I can do get into my dream school (UCLA) and working really hard since I am a non-trad student. (I will also be applying to many different MD schools)

But with all these threads about how CSU schools are at a disadvantage over other schools is really discouraging me.

Can the SDN community clarify this statement?

As always, thanks for the timely answers

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[md-2020]

The playing field, like so many things in life, is not equal. However, CSU vs generic UC isn't a huge difference in the grand scheme of themes. The type of difference that matters is MIT vs Miami-Dade College.

The best you can do is start kicking ass at CSU.

Public med schools care far less about UG prestige, btw. So there the difference is less pronounced.

 

[Oh_Gee]

I went to a UC for 4 years and always wonder what my gpa would be if i went to a CSU

 

[Holmwood]

I know someone from CSULB who matriculated into UCSF just recently.

If you don't get into the school of your choice, it's not the school's fault . . . it's your fault. (maybe fault isn't the best word to use here, given how much of a crapshoot application is, lol)
Just keep working hard and try your best with the resources you have.

 

[gyngyn]

We get only a handful of interview-range applicants from the CSU system each year.
Last year there were only 38 pre meds from CSU Fullerton (enrollment 37,000), 37 from Fresno (enrollment 23K) and 26 from Northridge (enrollment 40K). When one considers that CSUN is the second largest University in CA (after UCLA), the fact that they only produce 26 pre meds is telling (UCLA produced 919 for comparison).

I can't find data for CSULB but I suspect it must be even lower than these!
We would be glad to interview any worthy candidate from the CSU system but there are sadly so few.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

 

[Pusheen]

We get only a handful of interview range applicants from the CSU system each year.
Last year there were only 38 pre meds from CSU Fullerton, 37 from Fresno and 26 from Northridge.
I can't find data for your school but I suspect it must be even lower than these!
We would be glad to interview any worthy candidate from the CSU system but there are sadly so few.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

oh wow! I did not realize that was the case. Would a 'worthy candidate' from such a school or from any other school of similar cailiber have to be any different from a worthy candidate from a UC?

 

[gyngyn]

oh wow! I did not realize that was the case. Would a 'worthy candidate' from such a school or from any other school of similar cailiber have to be any different from a worthy candidate from a UC?

The MCAT seems to be a barrier for the CSU applicants, but when they beat it, we are happy to accept them. Some of our best applicants last year were from CSU's. We were proud to get them.

 

[Cawolf]

Applying from a CSU (non-trad though).

Have yet to find a person out-of-state who has any idea what it is.

I think the nature of the CSU system is that it does not attract the science/medicine focused students. They tend to go to where there are greater resources, the UC system.

 

[drsaurus]

Well this gives me hope. I'll be taking the MCAT in a couple years after some CC pre-reqs. If I can get all my pre-reqs done before transferring to CSU I will take the MCAT the summer before transferring and study like a mad man to get a great MCAT.

 

[Cawolf]

Well this gives me hope. I'll be taking the MCAT in a couple years after some CC pre-reqs. If I can get all my pre-reqs done before transferring to CSU I will take the MCAT the summer before transferring and study like a mad man to get a great MCAT.

Having taken courses at a research university, I can say the caliber of science courses is not as strong at a CSU. Why not transfer to a UC if you are planning on medicine?

It can be done, but as you can tell, it will do you no favors to attend a CSU if applying to medical school.

 

[drsaurus]

The MCAT seems to be a barrier for the CSU applicants, but when they beat it, we are happy to accept them. Some of our best applicants last year were from CSU's. We were proud to get them.

Well this gives me hope. I'll be taking the MCAT in a couple years after some CC pre-reqs. If I can get all my pre-reqs done before transferring to CSU I will take the MCAT the summer before transferring and study like a mad man to get a great MCAT.

 

[lmn]

Imo I think the emphasis SDN likes to put on UG school is over emphasized. Do well in your classes (hopefully bring that gpa up a bit more), do good with your EC's, and study and do well on the MCAT and your school name doesn't matter. If you score a 35 (edit: insert w/e the new equivalent score is), schools will know you can perform well academically, you don't need to have UCSD attached to your diploma.

 

[md-2020]

Imo I think the emphasis SDN likes to put on UG school is over emphasized.

No, not really, esp since most people end up going to private med schools:

Anecdotally, the success rate of first-time applicants w/ a 3.25+ sGPA from my UG was 80%++. 3.2-3.3 itself was ~50-60%.

I'd imagine the number to be around 0% for most schools.

 

[drsaurus]

Having taken courses at a research university, I can say the caliber of science courses is not as strong at a CSU. Why not transfer to a UC if you are planning on medicine?

It can be done, but as you can tell, it will do you no favors to attend a CSU if applying to medical school.

The UC requirements to transfer are all of the pre-reqs for medical school. However, physics offered at my CC is only calculus based physics. I would need to take 4 more math courses in sequence to be able to take the transferable physics courses. This is another 2-2 1/2 years depending on the sequence; that's before I can even take physics, which is another year.

To transfer to a CSU, I only need to take algebra-based physics. Which I can take within the next sequence.

So I've been trying to figure out what I should do. Transfer to a CSU earlier with pre-reqs or transfer to a UC in the next 3 years with pre-reqs that I'll still have to take at my CC.

 

[lmn]

No, not really, esp since most people end up going to private med schools:

Anecdotally, the success rate of first-time applicants w/ a 3.25+ sGPA from my UG was 80%++. 3.2-3.3 itself was ~50-60%.

I'd imagine the number to be around 0% for most schools.

Being from a top school definitely doesn't do anything but help, but it's hardly a situation where you will struggle to get II's from top 25 schools (or really any med school, any med school >>>> none) if you are from a less prestigious school if you are otherwise a strong applicant.

 

[Pusheen]

No, not really, esp since most people end up going to private med schools:

Anecdotally, the success rate of first-time applicants w/ a 3.25+ sGPA from my UG was 80%++. 3.2-3.3 itself was ~50-60%.

I'd imagine the number to be around 0% for most schools.

Most people go to private med schools? I didn't know that. Are you determining that by their sheer number? I also wonder if that preference data is screwed by the picky top 20 schools, who are almost all private ones.
Not doubting you, genuinely interested

 

[md-2020]

Most people go to private med schools? I didn't know that. Are you determining that by their sheer number? I also wonder if that preference data is screwed by the picky top 20 schools, who are almost all private ones.
Not doubting you, genuinely interested

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

If you take a look at this table, you will see that only 1 in every 4 applicants is matriculating to an in-state institution. *Not sure if I'm reading the table correctly, but I believe this includes private schools in-state as well. Like if I, as a resident of MD, matriculated to Hopkins.

And yes, there are far more private med schools out there. I'm sure there's some compilation of total public vs private student numbers, just don't have the willpower to find it.

I wouldn't expect private med schools to differ much in caring about UG prestige as lets be honest, flashy names are sexy. Private schools are not handcuffed in admissions guidelines like their public brethren, and so can afford to emphasize resume and research more. Publics exist to better serve their state and its residents, so they will, by definition, care less about applicant background.

 

[Pusheen]

https://www.aamc.org/download/321466/data/factstable5.pdf

If you take a look at this table, you will see that only 1 in every 4 applicants is matriculating to their IS institution. And yes, there are far more private med schools out there.

I wouldn't expect private med schools to differ much in caring about UG prestige as lets be honest, flashy names are sexy. Private schools are not handcuffed in admissions guidelines like their public brethren, and so can afford to emphasize resume and research more. Publics exist to better serve their state and its residents, so they will, by definition, care less about applicant background.

lol I was looking at that chart and was like ok, 15% in state, 20% out of state, where did the rest go? Oh

So basically if you have low stats and went to a fancy school you will have better chances at a private, and if you have good stats and went to Backwoods Unranked College, you would have a better chance at state schools.

 

[md-2020]

So basically if you have low stats and went to a fancy school you will have better chances at a private, and if you have good stats and went to Backwoods Unranked College, you would have a better chance at state schools.

That's what I think, and what SDN seemingly confirms.

But state schools are not 100% immune to UG institution, I'm sure.

 

[tortelliniboy]

lol most of these threads have a bunch of pre-meds arguing that undergraduate "prestige" is really important followed by that one table. Meanwhile the medical students, residents, and attendings will just be like, get a really high GPA, MCAT, and good letters, good ECs and realize that undergraduate prestige is pretty low on the list of things looked at. Then all of that advice gets buried by a more pre-meds joining the topics and arguing amongst themselves.

 

[neekzg]

Totally depends on the person. I don't think CSU vs. UC alone will be the determining factor in your application. From what I can tell, it's just a lot harder to come across opportunities for research, volunteering, mentorship, etc. at a CSU. If you know what you're doing--as in, you know how to actively seek out the experiences that will allow you to become a competitive applicant, you should be fine. If you can raise your GPA to be competitive (shoot for 3.7, not 3.5.. that's not necessarily competitive) and do well on the MCAT, you will have proven that you are just as worthy as a similar-stat applicant from a good UC school.

 

[md-2020]

lol most of these threads have a bunch of pre-meds arguing that undergraduate "prestige" is really important followed by that one table. Meanwhile the medical students, residents, and attendings will just be like, get a really high GPA, MCAT, and good letters, good ECs and realize that undergraduate prestige is pretty low on the list of things looked at. Then all of that advice gets buried by a more pre-meds joining the topics and arguing amongst themselves.

So when Stanford matriculates 42/102 students from Harvard, Stanford, Yale, and MIT, there's no UG preference being shown?

C'mon, it's definitely important.

It's probably less important than Ivy kinds think it to be and more important than low tier students want it to be.

 

[GrapesofRath]

As is pretty much always the case every time one of these threads is created those who go to top schools will argue their name carries more weight. Those who don't will argue the difference isn't nearly as significant in admission. The truth, as often is, is somewhere in the middle. Where in the middle is up for debate and as we all know, it gets debated on SDN often enough. Basically "how much does UG weight matter" has become the "affirmative action" type thread in terms of how it always finds a way of coming up every week.

Having said all that, here's me being a hypocrite and making fun of this topic while also giving my thoughts about it and spending time on this.

I think gyngyn highlighted the biggest point here. Those from lower tier schools often aren't as successful because of the barrier that is the MCAT. Those who pass that barrier and gain competitive scores, well there'll never be a clear consensus agreed upon most SDN users about how they fair vs those who go to better schools and also do well on the MCAT. People can say Yale takes 40% of their class from top 5 schools, but without seeing the applicants they beat out from lower tier schools with similar qualifications, how much does that really mean? That's really what everyone of these debates won't be able to quantify. Having thought about this, the way I go about looking at this is to consider what ADCOMS on here have said, what the AAMC in their surveys say and what schools who have released info about this say. And most importantly it's not just about what they say; its what they don't say and being able to understand what is something they actually say and something they don't actually say. So with all that said, here's what I've found from my time on this site

1) In gyngyn's school case, those who do well on the MCAT from lower tier type schools such as CSU seem to be fine.
2) Goro has echoed similar sentiments for his school.
3) I know gonnif has said he thinks the impact of prestige and where you go for UG is thought of to be a much bigger deal by applicants than it is to ADCOMs.
4) For LizzyM's school it seems to carry some weight. I've seen others say she's been quoted as saying the most her school will ever adjust for school rigor in GPA is about 0.2-0.3. When discussing applicant chances she'll often say your GPA might be looked at a little differently coming from a grade deflated school.
5) The other often cited thing when dealing with this is the chart U of Miami lists in their public presentations. They grade everybody on a point system out of either 300 or 400 points. Where you went to undergrad/rigor counts for 30 points. Now 30 points alone is kind of useless because we don't know how those 30 points are assigned. I believe under their point system the MCAT and GPA count for 60 points. LOR's 45 points. I think personal statement 30 points. So that's one way of quantifying it.
6) The chart people always cite here from the AAMC surveying ADCOMs indicates for private schools where you went to school is considered. But saying it's high importance isn't really saying that much. All that chart really says is that your undergrad institution is given more weight than your non science grades and rigor. Not exactly a shocker. Comparing different groups across each other ie saying UG prestige is given a 3 for academic metrics but research is only given a 2 for experiences and hence undergrad institution means more than research is probably not how that chart was supposed to be interpreted. Again, knowing what something doesn't say and understanding the limits of these types of surveys is important and why this topic never ceases to fade away.

 

[Goro]

Bingo! At my school, if you get a 4.0 from Kutztown State, we treat it the same as a 4.0 from, say, U OR or U WA.

UG schools do have an effect on Admissions deans because they're known feeders...it's less the "prestige" than they know what the produce is like.

lol most of these threads have a bunch of pre-meds arguing that undergraduate "prestige" is really important followed by that one table. Meanwhile the medical students, residents, and attendings will just be like, get a really high GPA, MCAT, and good letters, good ECs and realize that undergraduate prestige is pretty low on the list of things looked at. Then all of that advice gets buried by a more pre-meds joining the topics and arguing amongst themselves.

 

[f4reignbeauty]

I think someone mentioned it above, but I think the main difference between CSUs and UCs is that you get way more opportunities at a UC. I went to a CSU for undergrad, and not a particularly well-known one at that, and I feel that I had a pretty good application cycle.

Don't let the whole "prestige" thing get to you... just work hard and keep your goal in mind.

 

[swollcat]

The MCAT seems to be a barrier for the CSU applicants, but when they beat it, we are happy to accept them. Some of our best applicants last year were from CSU's. We were proud to get them.

When someone from outside of California vaguely says "I went to my local state school,"generally speaking, is that school then comparable to a UC or CSU? If the latter, then I don't see why someone who is vying to be a physician and not a career scientist right off the bat doesn't just go to say CSULA over UCLA. It's cheaper, the atmosphere probably a lot more amiable, and just less of hassle considering the average on an exam is 70 instead of 50.

 

[drsaurus]

When someone from outside of California vaguely says "I went to my local state school,"generally speaking, is that school then comparable to a UC or CSU? If the latter, then I don't see why someone who is vying to be a physician and not a career scientist right off the bat doesn't just go to say CSULA over UCLA. It's cheaper, the atmosphere probably a lot more amiable, and just less of hassle considering the average on an exam is 70 instead of 50.

I would like to know this as well. The CSUs I'm applying to all have pre-health committee or guidance, resources for research, and I already have volunteering at a hospital (I can also transfer hospitals when I transfer schools).

 

[gyngyn]

When someone from outside of California vaguely says "I went to my local state school,"generally speaking, is that school then comparable to a UC or CSU? If the latter, then I don't see why someone who is vying to be a physician and not a career scientist right off the bat doesn't just go to say CSULA over UCLA. It's cheaper, the atmosphere probably a lot more amiable, and just less of hassle considering the average on an exam is 70 instead of 50.

I would like to know this as well. The CSUs I'm applying to all have pre-health committee or guidance, resources for research, and I already have volunteering at a hospital (I can also transfer hospitals when I transfer schools).

Given the huge denominator of CSU students, the number that become medical school applicants is remarkably small.

 

[22031 Alum]

No, not really, esp since most people end up going to private med schools:

Anecdotally, the success rate of first-time applicants w/ a 3.25+ sGPA from my UG was 80%++. 3.2-3.3 itself was ~50-60%.

I'd imagine the number to be around 0% for most schools.

A 4-point Likert scale, with "highest importance" being anything greater than 3, is not the most robust way to determine relative importance. I get that it's the one objective piece of data that's readily available, but every time I see somebody quote this like it's gospel I roll my eyes.

 

[md-2020]

I get that it's the one objective piece of data that's readily available, but every time I see somebody quote this like it's gospel I roll my eyes.

I don't quote it like it's gospel.


I'm just pointing out that categorically denying the positive influences of top UGs is not realistic.

 

[22031 Alum]

I don't quote it like it's gospel.


I'm just pointing out that categorically denying the positive influences of top UGs is not realistic.

Categorical denial is not the same as acknowledging that 126 scores of '3' and one score of '4' (3.01 = highest importance!!!!!) is not robust.

(And it's actually less than that, since 127 was the total N for both public and private school respondents.)

 

[md-2020]

Categorical denial is not the same as acknowledging that 126 scores of '3' and one score of '4' (3.01 = highest importance!!!!!) is not robust.

Like you said it's the one piece of actual evidence out there. I don't put much stock into it, but it is still somewhat useful. Until there's a better way to quote evidence, what we got is what we got.

I've seen enough of "you should just go to Intercardinal Directional State U to be best off for MD applications." Which is an absolute joke.

 

[22031 Alum]

Like you said it's the one piece of actual evidence out there. I don't put much stock into it, but it is still somewhat useful. Until there's a better way to quote evidence, what we got is what we got.

I've seen enough of "you should just go to Intercardinal Directional State U to be best off for MD applications." Which is an absolute joke.

I don't know if I'd say to be best off, but I do think premed students should go to the cheapest school where they can do well.

Given the huge denominator of CSU students, the number that become medical school applicants is remarkably small.

I have precious little knowledge of California, but don't the social characteristics of that denominator come into play at a certain point? I always thought CSU system students were more likely to be first-generation college, lower socioeconomic status, etc. I figure if a higher proportion of students come from a background in which aspiring to medical school isn't even considered as a possibility, or the high-school preparation was lacking, it "cancels out" such a huge number, in a way. I certainly see that play out in the "lower-tier" state schools where I've lived and worked.

 

[drsaurus]

I have precious little knowledge of California, but don't the social characteristics of that denominator come into play at a certain point? I always thought CSU system students were more likely to be first-generation college, lower socioeconomic status, etc. I figure if a higher proportion of students come from a background in which aspiring to medical school isn't even considered as a possibility, or the high-school preparation was lacking, it "cancels out" such a huge number, in a way. I certainly see that play out in the "lower-tier" state schools where I've lived and worked.

I can speak for this background because I believe I come from it. Where I'm at in the Central Valley in CA, college is something that is more or less a far-fetched idea. Many of my peers don't even see college to be something that is a possibility, so they stay at CC for 4-5 years and maybe, just maybe, transfer to a CSU where they get a degree in whatever comes easiest because they have hope that it will get them 70k a year after graduating.

Another problem is definitely high-school preparation. I learned nothing in high-school, albeit because it was my own fault, but I came into my CC with little knowledge on how to actually study, write a well-crafted argumentative paper, etc. Certainly when I was in high-school or my first (failing) year of CC I had no aspirations to even graduate college. Like many of my peers in my current classes. The "I wouldn't be here if I didn't have to" mentality is real thing.

Maybe this is one reason why there are very few applicants from CSU schools to medical schools.

 

[gyngyn]

I have precious little knowledge of California, but don't the social characteristics of that denominator come into play at a certain point? I always thought CSU system students were more likely to be first-generation college, lower socioeconomic status, etc. I figure if a higher proportion of students come from a background in which aspiring to medical school isn't even considered as a possibility, or the high-school preparation was lacking, it "cancels out" such a huge number, in a way. I certainly see that play out in the "lower-tier" state schools where I've lived and worked.

Half of CSUN's students identify as Latino. This huge potential yields so little pre-med fruit...

 

[22031 Alum]

Half of CSUN's students identify as Latino. This huge potential yields so little pre-med fruit...

You seem to be implying that there's something wrong with CSUN that it doesn't churn out many pre-meds. But the way I see it (and I think the account @drsaurus gives is consistent with this), this difference starts far earlier. Unless we're saying that the onus is on the university to make up for the lack of foundation and more lofty aspirations that a lot of these young people come in with.

 

[f4reignbeauty]

I can speak for this background because I believe I come from it. Where I'm at in the Central Valley in CA, college is something that is more or less a far-fetched idea. Many of my peers don't even see college to be something that is a possibility, so they stay at CC for 4-5 years and maybe, just maybe, transfer to a CSU where they get a degree in whatever comes easiest because they have hope that it will get them 70k a year after graduating.

Another problem is definitely high-school preparation. I learned nothing in high-school, albeit because it was my own fault, but I came into my CC with little knowledge on how to actually study, write a well-crafted argumentative paper, etc. Certainly when I was in high-school or my first (failing) year of CC I had no aspirations to even graduate college. Like many of my peers in my current classes. The "I wouldn't be here if I didn't have to" mentality is real thing.

Maybe this is one reason why there are very few applicants from CSU schools to medical schools.

This is true to a degree. At my school, a large proportion of my classmates were first-generation students, and faced barriers similar to those you've mentioned. I've faced them myself!

Although I think it's a real challenge to overcome, I do not think that's the reason there a few applicants from CSUs. The size of the CSU science programs are typically smaller than UCs, so why would you expect to see 100s of applicants coming from these schools? In fact, my graduating class had ~40 biology majors, and many of us have gone onto professional school.

 

[WingedOx]

lol most of these threads have a bunch of pre-meds arguing that undergraduate "prestige" is really important followed by that one table. Meanwhile the medical students, residents, and attendings will just be like, get a really high GPA, MCAT, and good letters, good ECs and realize that undergraduate prestige is pretty low on the list of things looked at. Then all of that advice gets buried by a more pre-meds joining the topics and arguing amongst themselves.

I'd join to say the same thing, but you hit the nail on the head.

Before this thread drops we'll have another three posts of "But top schools have mostly all students from top undergrads and that means correlation equals causation, and situations can only ever have one variable determining an outcome!!!"

 

[vantheman]

Don't be discouraged! I graduated from a CSU University and I proud about it. Although I understand these schools aren't very prestigious, the opportunities I had at my University were amazing. To give one example, through my CSU, I was able to do a full time research fellowship for 1 year at a top 20 medical school. There are so many other unique things I was able to be involved in through my University. I am confident these activities have helped me prepare for medical school and my professional life. In my opinion, this makes up for the lack of prestige.

At this point, which university you attend is out of your hands. BUT what is in your hands is what you do with your time there and also how hard you study for the MCAT. Do well on the MCAT and everything will be just fine. I know this because I have multiple interviews lined up (I am actually flying at 30,000 ft on my way to my first interview as I type this haha)

 

[CCMDOC9254]

.

 

[alpinism]

We get only a handful of interview-range applicants from the CSU system each year.
Last year there were only 38 pre meds from CSU Fullerton (enrollment 37,000), 37 from Fresno (enrollment 23K) and 26 from Northridge (enrollment 40K). When one considers that CSUN is the second largest University in CA (after UCLA), the fact that they only produce 26 pre meds is telling (UCLA produced 919 for comparison).

I can't find data for CSULB but I suspect it must be even lower than these!
We would be glad to interview any worthy candidate from the CSU system but there are sadly so few.
https://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/

What do you mean by only a handful interview-range applicants?

Do you mean that you only got 26 applications from CSUN total or that only 26 applications from CSUN had competitive stats?

As a CSUN alum I'll say this, there's probably a whole laundry list of reasons why the CSU's don't churn out hundreds of high stats (>3.7/32) applicants each year. Off the top of my head:

1. Most CSUs (including CSUN) are not science intensive. The vast majority of students study business, education, or liberal arts. Due to the massive enrollment of CSUN, there are thousands of science majors, but its only a small percentage of the overall enrollment.

2. For those that are science majors, a high proportion are interested in other health care careers (PA, PT, OT, DVM, etc...). We probably had more of these people in our classes than committed pre-meds.

3. As for the pre-meds themselves (probably only 100-250/per year as a rough estimate), most tended to be 1st generation college students who had average grades in high school and average SAT scores. Only a handful came from well-to do families or had any doctors in their family. Most worked 1-2 part time jobs during the school year and as a result didn't have a whole lot of free time for studying or ECs.

4. Even at CSUN, a good number of the pre-requisites (esp gen-chem and o-chem) were notorious weed out courses and the class averages were only in the 60s to 70s (C+/B- curve). Many freshmen who started out interested in med school simply switched majors when their GPA got too low since they couldn't afford to take extra courses or do a post bacc to raise their GPA.

As a result, most pre-med students applying from CSUN had good grades (3.4 to 3.8) but only mediocre MCATs (27-33). The advising office there is pretty good but is also brutally honest when it comes to recommending med schools. Unless you have great grades (3.7+) and a high MCAT (32+) they actively discourage applying to places like UCD, UCI, UCSD, let alone UCLA and UCSF. Most people end up applying to mostly OOS schools out east or just apply DO if they really want to stay in CA.

In my class we only had 2 people get accepted to UCs for med school. 1 UCI and 1 UCLA (both minorities with near perfect GPA and >30 MCAT). The rest ended up at places like NYMC, Einstein, Drexel, Jefferson, MCW, and RFU. A bunch went to WesternU since they wanted to stay in SoCal and only had marginally competitive MD stats (3.5/30).

This was ~6 years ago so I'm sure its even more competitive now.

 

[md-2020]

1. Most CSUs (including CSUN) are not science intensive. The vast majority of students study business, education, or liberal arts. Due to the massive enrollment of CSUN, there are thousands of science majors, but its only a small percentage of the overall enrollment.

2. For those that are science majors, a high proportion are interested in other health care careers (PA, PT, OT, DVM, etc...). We probably had more of these people in our classes than committed pre-meds.

3. As for the pre-meds themselves (probably only 100-250/per year as a rough estimate), most tended to be 1st generation college students who had average grades in high school and average SAT scores. Only a handful came from well-to do families or had any doctors in their family. Most worked 1-2 part time jobs during the school year and as a result didn't have a whole lot of free time for studying or ECs.

4. Even at CSUN, a good number of the pre-requisites (esp gen-chem and o-chem) were notorious weed out courses and the class averages were only in the 60s to 70s (C+/B- curve). Many freshmen who started out interested in med school simply switched majors when their GPA got too low since they couldn't afford to take extra courses or do a post bacc to raise their GPA.

As a result, most pre-med students applying from CSUN had good grades (3.4 to 3.8) but only mediocre MCATs (27-33). The advising office there is pretty good but is also brutally honest when it comes to recommending med schools. Unless you have great grades (3.7+) and a high MCAT (32+) they actively discourage applying to places like UCD, UCI, UCSD, let alone UCLA and UCSF. Most people end up applying to mostly OOS schools out east or just apply DO if they really want to stay in CA.

These are also exactly the same at any other school in America. Not unique to CSU

 

[alpinism]

These are also exactly the same at any other school in America. Not unique to CSU

There are far more science majors/premeds at UCLA/UCSD/UCB/UCD percentage wise.

 

[gyngyn]

What do you mean by only a handful interview-range applicants?
Do you mean that you only got 26 applications from CSUN total or that only 26 applications from CSUN had competitive stats?

A total of 26 people applied to medical school from CSUN (according to the AAMC).
Of them, only a few had an application that made them a candidate for interview at a CA medical school. I know because we are especially looking for these candidates (and they all apply here!).

 

[westsidestoryz]

A total of 26 people applied to medical school from CSUN (according to the AAMC).
Of them, only a few had an application that made them a candidate for interview at a CA medical school. I know because we are especially looking for these candidates (and they all apply here!).

A very select few. So you do get CSU apps but they're just not good enough?
Could you give any tips on how to stand out as an app from a CSU? From what I've read so far, the mcat seems like the barrier.
I would just like to know why. Is it the different teaching style, easier classes, or less resources?

 

[gyngyn]

A very select few. So you do get CSU apps but they're just not good enough?
Could you give any tips on how to stand out as an app from a CSU? From what I've read so far, the mcat seems like the barrier.
I would just like to know why. Is it the different teaching style, easier classes, or less resources?

I just got a CSU ap with an 18 MCAT. I don't believe any advisor, however weak would have recommended an application with this score.
Perhaps advising is not as intrusive and effective as it needs to be?

The students that we do interview are as good or better than the ones from the Ivies. There just aren't very many of them.

 

[westsidestoryz]

I just got a CSU ap with an 18 MCAT. I don't believe any advisor, however weak would have recommended an application with this score.
Perhaps advising is not as intrusive and effective as it needs to be?

The students that we do interview are as good or better than the ones from the Ivies. There just aren't very many of them.

I think its just up to the person and how much work they can put in, no matter if you are from a CSU or UC. I guess you just have to make best with the resources you have, no matter how limited it may be. But I think overall, what @drsaurus has said plays a big factor (1st generation, view on colleges, the habits they grew up with, innate learning ability, and cognitive ability they were taught when they were young)
the 18 MCAT score must have been a special case or do you get those often? o.0

 

[gyngyn]

the 18 MCAT score must have been a special case or do you get those often? o.0

I get them more often than I'd like...

 

[drsaurus]

I think its just up to the person and how much work they can put in, no matter if you are from a CSU or UC. I guess you just have to make best with the resources you have, no matter how limited it may be. But I think overall, what @drsaurus has said plays a big factor (1st generation, view on colleges, the habits they grew up with, innate learning ability, and cognitive ability they were taught when they were young)
the 18 MCAT score must have been a special case or do you get those often? o.0

I think the best takeaway we can get from this entire thread is the fact that we definitely can be competitive even if we are from a CSU, even with the mentioned disadvantages. We stand out even more because there are very few students who are competitive from a CSU. Obviously we need to strive to be the best students and applicants possible because we definitely can get into the same schools as applicants from Ivies and UC's.

Let's be one of the very few that apply and are accepted because of our outstanding performance and forget about the whole UC vs CSU debate.

 

[drsaurus]

Big thanks @gyngyn for this info. I will definitely use it to my advantage and make sure to destroy that MCAT. Another 3-4 years and I'll be applying from CA with hopes of staying in CA!!!