CT Surgery

[DO_Surgeon]

Is there hope for a DO to do a CT fellowship at an allopathic program after completing an osteopathic general surgery residency? I think there are only two osteopathic programs out there right now, and I would guess they probably arent too strong.

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[VentdependenT]

Probably extremely difficult to do. If you have any hint of specializing in an allo fellowship then you had better go and land an allo residency. I suggest doing some research on the DO fellowships if you intend to go DO gen surg.

 

[DO_Surgeon]

Does anyone know anything about the two DO CT fellowships? I believe they are in New Jersey at Deborah Heart and Lung and in Detroit at Henry Ford (Bi-county)?

 

[GMO2003]

It won't be easy. However, it is probably more attainable than you think. CT surgery is in a state of flux right now. There is more and more push toward less invasive procedures for the treatment of certain conditions that were only amenable toward surgery. I know of several invididuals who have completed allopathic CT surgery fellowships following an AOA general surgery residency...I even know of a couple who have done thoracic surgery fellowships at the Cleveland Clinic

 

[Vukken99]

The first thing really is not worrying about the fellowship...

I think it is DO graduates can get most fellowships if they really want it.

I personally think big academic programs are for those who want to be baby seated all the way to graduation day.

But, if you graduate from a decent residency and you do well in your in-service.
And if you do lots of cases and read a basic surgery book.

No residency director will say no.

I think most CT programs DO are decent. Most of them have decent well accomplished faculty.

Now fellowships are not the ultimate training ground.

For me Cardiac surgery has a very promising future.....

I would finish a gen surgery first and have few papers published in the area of your interest. Remember this last word your area of interest. One of my resident papers came straight from one of my cases and it was very interesting to write about a GI topic from a surgical perspective.

Plus, if you are in the middle of beginning Gen Surgery you may change your mind so many times until you graduate.

Some start with trauma then say wow I want to do hand since it is almost all out patient and well paid with some mix with ortho since you can do up to upper extremeties. So hate them all and wants plastics or head and neck.

Others love laparotomy like myself with big incisions since cancer surgery is mostly re operative in nature. So very little room for laparoscopic surgery.
Big opening easy to work on really truly a classic gen surgery indeed so many of these people like surgical oncology.

Some like the dynamic nature of heart surgery...like I have interest in reading EKG interpreting rhythms..also interest in understanding hemodynamics of cardiovascular system in intensive care unit. Like many CT procedures can be dramatic in nature even with Chest tube insertions which can be really life saving.

After a CT surgery fellowship I would consider doing one or two years of heart failure surgery or heart and lung transplant with added expertise in maze procedures or dors procedures.

Someone trained like this can start a open heart program anywhere in the country far away from that stinky competition of large centers...

Have you realized every other stupid teaching hospital claims to be the best.

Gee I am confused already.....everybody is same.

It is not the nature of being DO or MD; it is more the nature of being a Physician, human with great respect and love for patients...And the ultimate desire to help.....if you have that as a goal you will read more, do more and listen more...and you will be a great physician.

Once I was told by a CT surgeon while I was scrubbing hey jacob you dont sound like a typical osteopathic student why did not you go to MD school.

And I always say: I am proud to be a DO, I am proud to be a Physician.
no regrets no inferiority complex.....And most of my attendings have respected me for that answer. Because when you love something it comes across all colors..

 

[DO_Surgeon]

Jacob:

Thanks for your replies, but as you pointed out to me earlier by doing an osteopathic GS residency followed by a MD fellowship, one is not boarded. Doesnt that create a problem? I am only a third year med student now so obviously where I finally end up will change several times over the next few years, but I do know that surgery is the route I want to head. Do you have any opinions or comments on Doctors North (Columbus), Grandview (Dayton), or any of the MI programs. I read your post about Colton and I too was just in the Riverside area about a month ago, and the idea of being 60 minutes from the beach is tempting. Please keep your comments coming!!!! Thanks

 

[Vukken99]

Well
you can finish the DO gen surgery and do allopathic Ct fellowship.
Then be boarded by the osteopathic CT boards instead of MD.

So you will be boarded by someone.

Now, you have to ask the AOA on this.
I know the last I read on AOA policy you can be boarded by AOA even if you did
MD CT surgery fellowship.

Well, I think Riverside is not bad at all but I personally thing you will not have time to enjoy the beach anyhow.

Gen Sur residents have to sort of into their training. Even when you are in the beach you should be reading something related to your interest.

I scored the highest in my hospital for the in-service exam and also how you can know the quality of the residency is to see the quality of their residents.

Ask the program director if all their residents are qualified for state licensure which means if they had passed all three steps...Plus what is their residents standing in national in-service exams scores...

Remember you will spend more time with your fellow residents. If you have residents who dont know enough who dont teach and who are not interested in their own training then that is a bad place for training.

I remember I had few senior who just did not know much. did pretty bad in their in-service. and loved to scut without any teaching.....

Also you should ask how many of their seniors or residents are fully certified in ATLS and if the residency pays for this course.

And, dont go to a place that rotate for gen surgery in too many sites during the year...gee the last thing you need is to be a frequent traveller between hospital this will take you out from concentration... in my opinion.