Culture difference in higher or lower ranked schools?

[Gauss44]

If it makes more sense: I am asking for most of the same reasons that parents ask about "good" schools for their kids. Only this is just for me and other readers.

1. Is there an efficient way of finding out how many students from each school get into their 1st choice residency, into residency at all, or graduate (without going to the website of every school in the MSAR)?

2. Are lower ranked schools different than higher ranked schools in any way (other than entrance requirements)?

examples
- Are any medical schools almost as bad as the school on Dangerous Minds?
- Is there more anti-intellectualism than in a lower ranked school?
- Is there more of a variety of students in high ranked, lower ranked, both/neither?
- Is it easier to get good grades or scholarships in low ranked school?
- (I listed some of these because they might be common misconceptions.)

3. What is the most important advice you have about picking out a medical school?

(Edited so it will no longer sound "silly." I think the first few misunderstood what I meant because I wasn't clear.)

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[NickNaylor]

This is a bit of a silly question. Every school is going to be populated with every kind of student. Thinking that students at a particular school are predominantly ______ or ______ is being overly simplistic.

In other words, State U is probably going to have its share of jackass gunners (along with some down-to-earth people) while Harvard is going to have its share of down-to-earth people (along with some jackass gunners).

This has been my experience at least. No matter where you go you aren't going to be friends and spend time with all of your classmates. You will find the people that you best identify with and make them your "group."

 

[punkedoutriffs]

I've heard med school is more cliquey than would be expected. Thoughts?

 

[Doctor Strange]

I've heard med school is more cliquey than would be expected. Thoughts?

Whenever you bring together motley crew of people, cliques are bound to form. You can't be friends with everyone.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Whenever you bring together motley crew of people, cliques are bound to form. You can't be friends with everyone.

Maybe YOU cant

 

[LizzyM]

I've heard med school is more cliquey than would be expected. Thoughts?

Most are much smaller than college... maybe even smaller than your department (if you majored in bio or chem at a big state school)... in some cases your graduating class may be smaller than your HS graduating class. So, it is very easy to know everyone and to think you know everyone's business, particularly if you go to a school where you attend classes with everyone, every day.

It would not be unusual to think that people would break into smaller groups a la the cafeteria in Mean Girls.

 

[ValentineLissar]

Oh no! I thought that high school was behind me.


;P

 

[ShenanigansMD]

Oh no! I thought that high school was behind me.


;P

At least it's not middle school.

Plus, I have a hard time believing that med school culture is highly variable among schools. Unless one school uses P/F and another uses straight grading.

 

[PreMedOrDead]

It would not be unusual to think that people would break into smaller groups a la the cafeteria in Mean Girls.

 

[Geebeejay]

Specifically, are the:

Lower ranked MD schools less competitive, more cooperative, subject to anti-intellectualism, have the most well-rounded/diverse students...? (They are certainly attractive assuming that you are more likely to get a scholarship and less likely to flunk out.)

Higher ranked MD schools (in general) those with the most proud students, with better self-esteem, subject to narcissism/snobbery (maybe not), more intellectual...?

If you have switched schools in the past, you might know that culture really varies from place to place. I suspect that all MD programs have super intelligent people so there is probably no equivalent to what is referred to as a "bad school" (ex. one where teachers don't want to teach).

Culture is sometimes difficult to assess in just one visit. Yet it is important, to me anyway.

Some schools have different emphasis (i.e. emphasis on research), and I bet this is reflected in the student body since med schools select students that seem "fit" to their program. Other than that, I doubt there's a difference.

 

[Barcu]

Plus, I have a hard time believing that med school culture is highly variable among schools. Unless one school uses P/F and another uses straight grading.

I don't think this matters as much as SDNers think either.

 

[NickNaylor]

I've heard med school is more cliquey than would be expected. Thoughts?

It is cliquey in the sense that you will have a core group of people that you will likely spend most of your time with. Everyone is in the same situation. However, you may feel more or less comfortable going outside of that group depending upon the culture of your class. I suppose schools can influence this to some degree, but even classes within the same school can be very, very different.

In our class, for example, I would have no problem hanging out with any of my classmates. I don't feel like any of them are strangers in the strict sense of the word and I wouldn't feel out of place hanging with any of them. I don't know how universal this is.

(sent from my phone)

 

[Alby]

The smaller the class, the less cliques. Less than 50 students creates a much different environment than > 200 (IMO)

 

[NickNaylor]

The smaller the class, the less cliques. Less than 50 students creates a much different environment than > 200 (IMO)

The only problem with that is that only Mayo and Cleveland Clinic are below 50, right?

 

[Nymphicus]

Specifically, are the:

Lower ranked MD schools less competitive, more cooperative, subject to anti-intellectualism, have the most well-rounded/diverse students...? (They are certainly attractive assuming that you are more likely to get a scholarship and less likely to flunk out.)

Higher ranked MD schools (in general) those with the most proud students, with better self-esteem, subject to narcissism/snobbery (maybe not), more intellectual...?

No way to generalize based on "higher or lower ranked" schools. In fact, lower ranked schools are less likely to have (unranked) P/F grading which might increase competition. Also, I have no idea why you would assume that lower ranked schools would have more "well-rounded/diverse students" and be "more likely to get a scholarship and less likely to flunk out."

 

[chemsmith]

I noticed, or at least perceived differences in culture between schools I have interviewed at. I think there will be less variability between schools than say undergrad, but differences are absolutely still there.

 

[Nymphicus]

I noticed, or at least perceived differences in culture between schools I have interviewed at.

I did too. It was one of the main reasons I picked my current school, because of the culture here.

 

[Fivo]

I noticed, or at least perceived differences in culture between schools I have interviewed at. I think there will be less variability between schools than say undergrad, but differences are absolutely still there.

I did too. It was one of the main reasons I picked my current school, because of the culture here.

Can you guys explain what you noticed on your interview day and how such a short exposure is ample time to come to those conclusions? I have yet to go on an interview and I'm very curious

 

[chemsmith]

Can you guys explain what you noticed on your interview day and how such a short exposure is ample time to come to those conclusions? I have yet to go on an interview and I'm very curious

Its not a "conclusion" by any means, rather its more like the first impression you get of a person - an unavoidable and instinctual, but often telling portrait of your compatibility.

 

[Gauss44]

No way to generalize based on "higher or lower ranked" schools. In fact, lower ranked schools are less likely to have (unranked) P/F grading which might increase competition. Also, I have no idea why you would assume that lower ranked schools would have more "well-rounded/diverse students" and be "more likely to get a scholarship and less likely to flunk out."

Well-rounded diverse - was more of a stimulus or example of a point that could be discussed (rather than my personal opinion).

More likely to get a scholarship, less likely to flunk out - is a description of what a person might experience. If a person with a given skill set/IQ/ability level applies to a school where the average gpa is 3.8 and average mcat is 38, one might assume that it would be easier to flunk out and more difficult to get a gpa/mcat based scholarship from that school compared to another school with an average gpa of 3.4 and 29 mcat. I'm sure there are exceptions but think this logic makes sense, even if it's incorrect.

 

[Nymphicus]

Can you guys explain what you noticed on your interview day and how such a short exposure is ample time to come to those conclusions? I have yet to go on an interview and I'm very curious

Honestly it's often hard to tell on the actual "interview day." My best conclusions came from staying with student hosts and meeting students outside of the interview parameters, and also second looks.

 

[mirimonster]

Well-rounded diverse - was more of a stimulus or example of a point that could be discussed (rather than my personal opinion).

More likely to get a scholarship, less likely to flunk out - is a description of what a person might experience. If a person with a given skill set/IQ/ability level applies to a school where the average gpa is 3.8 and average mcat is 38, one might assume that it would be easier to flunk out and more difficult to get a gpa/mcat based scholarship from that school compared to another school with an average gpa of 3.4 and 29 mcat. I'm sure there are exceptions but think this logic makes sense, even if it's incorrect.

Ranking doesn't really matter for graduation rate. Very few people flunk out of medical school and those that do usually do it for reasons other than academic rigor. If you don't have the chops to cut it in a more competitive school, you won't get in. That's why every school has a 98-99% graduation rate. The reality, though, is that no matter where you go, medical school is hard. Everyone from Harvard to Meharry has to learn the same material and pass the same USMLE's.

For the bolded, this actually much more complicated and depends a lot more on the money available at the school than the caliber of the student. Higher ranked schools tend to have more merit scholarships available (think Mayo, and CCLCM (?) at Case Western), so you could actually argue that the opposite is true.

 

[mcloaf]

Well-rounded diverse - was more of a stimulus or example of a point that could be discussed (rather than my personal opinion).

More likely to get a scholarship, less likely to flunk out - is a description of what a person might experience. If a person with a given skill set/IQ/ability level applies to a school where the average gpa is 3.8 and average mcat is 38, one might assume that it would be easier to flunk out and more difficult to get a gpa/mcat based scholarship from that school compared to another school with an average gpa of 3.4 and 29 mcat. I'm sure there are exceptions but think this logic makes sense, even if it's incorrect.

Dunno about scholarships, but in regards to flunking out I think that's probably no more common at high tier schools than elsewhere, if not less common. Most of these schools work very hard to take care of their students once they've matriculated. IIRC schools' federal funding is based on # of students, so if they have kids dropping out they stand to lose money. One of many reasons that schools look to past academic performance to make sure incoming students have the academic horsepower required.

 

[45408]

Lower ranked MD schools less competitive, more cooperative, subject to anti-intellectualism, have the most well-rounded/diverse students...?

You think that physicians in training are subject to anti-intellectualism? That's just silly talk. That is not the case for "lower-ranked MD schools," and it's probably not the case at any MD school on the continent. Anyone with such an attitude will flunk out within the first month, and it's unlikely they would have gotten in at all.

 

[deleted127837]

The only problem with that is that only Mayo and Cleveland Clinic are below 50, right?

A lot of the newer schools have smaller classes due to accreditation limits of 50 +- 10%. Seems like few people think about them, though.

Can you guys explain what you noticed on your interview day and how such a short exposure is ample time to come to those conclusions? I have yet to go on an interview and I'm very curious

It's not wildly different, usually, but more of a feeling.

You can get a good sense for things in how people present the school. Especially rival schools. One'll stick to a traditional curriculum whereas the other (usually lower-ranked) school is devil-may-care changing everything. Schools like Brown have their "academies" that they split people into that undoubtedly changes the culture, and, overall, big vs. small schools + big city/city/suburban/rural will wildly change how things feel on a day-to-day basis.

 

[karkatvantas]

Ranking doesn't really matter for graduation rate. Very few people flunk out of medical school and those that do usually do it for reasons other than academic rigor. If you don't have the chops to cut it in a more competitive school, you won't get in. That's why every school has a 98-99% graduation rate. The reality, though, is that no matter where you go, medical school is hard. Everyone from Harvard to Meharry has to learn the same material and pass the same USMLE's.

For the bolded, this actually much more complicated and depends a lot more on the money available at the school than the caliber of the student. Higher ranked schools tend to have more merit scholarships available (think Mayo, and CCLCM (?) at Case Western), so you could actually argue that the opposite is true.

Re: the scholarships bit, I recently figured out it would actually be about $10-15k/year cheaper for me to go to my dream school (consistently ranked in the top 10 med schools in the country) than to any of the my state's state universities (which are very cheap, as far as medical schools go), because my dream school has guaranteed need-based scholarships that the state schools simply don't have.

Obviously this is a narrow comparison, but in general higher ranked schools simply have more money to give out in scholarships than lower ranked schools, meaning they could potentially be cheaper overall.

 

[Narmerguy]

You think that physicians in training are subject to anti-intellectualism? That's just silly talk. That is not the case for "lower-ranked MD schools," and it's probably not the case at any MD school on the continent. Anyone with such an attitude will flunk out within the first month, and it's unlikely they would have gotten in at all.

Hmm, I have actually heard a few friends complain about this at their medical schools. It's not anti-intellectualism in the sense that learning or thinking is frowned upon, but that it is only narrowly focused on medicine and, particularly, course-material that must be done. These were both MD-PhD students who commented on the different intellectual environment when they were with the grad students vs med students.

 

[45408]

There's a difference between being anti-intellectualism and not wanting to talk about science/art/literature all of the time, including your free time. I had classmates who wanted to golf, drink beer and go to baseball games in their time off, but that's not what I would consider anti-intellectual. That's having a work/school/life balance.

 

[coyotelime]

This is a bit of a silly question. Every school is going to be populated with every kind of student. Thinking that students at a particular school are predominantly ______ or ______ is being overly simplistic.

In other words, State U is probably going to have its share of jackass gunners (along with some down-to-earth people) while Harvard is going to have its share of down-to-earth people (along with some jackass gunners).

This has been my experience at least. No matter where you go you aren't going to be friends and spend time with all of your classmates. You will find the people that you best identify with and make them your "group."

Agreed. Also keep in mind that the kind of people will vary depending on overall class size (you can bet there will be more gunners in a class of 200 vs 150 at similarly ranked schools) and location. Yes there will be people from all over the US and beyond, but in general medical students everywhere is diverse. Remember that it's damn hard to get in so the school probably considered how you would fit in with the rest of the class when they accepted you, over some others.

 

[Narmerguy]

There's a difference between being anti-intellectualism and not wanting to talk about science/art/literature all of the time, including your free time. I had classmates who wanted to golf, drink beer and go to baseball games in their time off, but that's not what I would consider anti-intellectual. That's having a work/school/life balance.

...thanks for that distinction. But like I said, the students that I spoke to weren't referring to anti-intellectualism so much as a lack of breadth of interests or even a deeper interest in some of the things that may be taken for granted. Unless you're suggesting somehow that medical students are the only students who strive for a work/school/life balance, it doesn't really address their points. I'm also not sure how going to games and drinking become mutually exclusive with intellectual conversation.

 

[Gauss44]

Okay, I tried to clarify my question.