Curious about how this guy got in

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mariposas905

mariposas905

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I recently saw my cousin's AMCAS app (he is matriculating MD this year) and frankly, I'm surprised he got the interviews he did. He is an ORM reapplicant who took the MCAT twice and got below a 73% both times. His ECs are very average in my opinion (things like Dean's List, AED, and Yoga club member take up full entries) and his essays are general with grammatical mistakes. He did not change his essays the second time he applied either.

He applied early last year with a 3.9 GPA, and received many low-tier interviews (NEOMED, Rosalind, Creighton, Oakland, Penn State, Drexel, VCU, Tulane), as well as an acceptance into every DO school applied. He is going to an MD school that takes very few OOS and has a heavy service emphasis, but he still got in. I figured OOS schools would want higher stats...

Is it common to get into low-tier medical schools with an average application like this? There is honestly nothing amazing about his app, and I'm wondering how he managed to get so many IIs at MD schools. Could it just be that the GPA is weighted that heavily?
 
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mariposas905 said:
I recently saw my cousin's AMCAS app (he is matriculating MD this year) and frankly, I'm surprised he got the interviews he did. He is an ORM reapplicant who took the MCAT twice and got below a 73% both times. His ECs are very average in my opinion (things like Dean's List, AED, and Yoga club member take up full entries) and his essays are general and lackluster with grammatical mistakes. He did not change his essays the second time he applied either.

He applied early last year with a 3.9 GPA, and received many low-tier interviews (NEOMED, Rosalind, Creighton, Oakland, Penn State, Drexel, VCU, Tulane), as well as an acceptance into every DO school applied. He is going to an MD school that takes very few OOS and has a heavy service emphasis, but he still got in. I was surprised at this, since OOS schools usually want higher stats.

Is it common to get into low-tier medical schools with an average application like this? There is honestly nothing amazing about his app, and I'm wondering how he managed to get so many IIs at MD schools. Could it just be that the GPA is weighted that heavily?
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Illuminati of course! what else could it be?
 
I also can't tell you how many people I know who cheated regularly in undergrad, and still matriculated at top medical schools. It's upsetting that schools can't see through these people 🙁 The 3.9 GPA, 95% MCAT score got them accepted quickly. Some of my friends who actually worked hard for that GPA and did activities they were passionate about did not get a single MD II and had to reapply.
 
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mariposas905 said:
Lol I guess :laugh: it is times like this when I feel that SDN is too neurotic and it's actually easy to get into medical school haha
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I love it when the adcoms on here put the process on a pedestal and claim it's not random. When in reality there are 141 admission committees made up of hundreds of people making decisions based on their own personal judgements/biases/opinions etc. All you can do is put together the best app you can and not take any of this crap personally.
 
mariposas905 said:
I recently saw my cousin's AMCAS app (he is matriculating MD this year) and frankly, I'm surprised he got the interviews he did. He is an ORM reapplicant who took the MCAT twice and got below a 73% both times. His ECs are very average in my opinion (things like Dean's List, AED, and Yoga club member take up full entries) and his essays are general and lackluster with grammatical mistakes. He did not change his essays the second time he applied either.

He applied early last year with a 3.9 GPA, and received many low-tier interviews (NEOMED, Rosalind, Creighton, Oakland, Penn State, Drexel, VCU, Tulane), as well as an acceptance into every DO school applied. He is going to an MD school that takes very few OOS and has a heavy service emphasis, but he still got in. I was surprised at this, since OOS schools usually want higher stats.

Is it common to get into low-tier medical schools with an average application like this? There is honestly nothing amazing about his app, and I'm wondering how he managed to get so many IIs at MD schools. Could it just be that the GPA is weighted that heavily?
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The bar for interviews is usually lower than for admits - a 3.9/28-29 getting these kinds of interviews as an early app isn't that shocking if he had solid service hours. How many MD admits did he end up with? Is his ~67-68 LizzyM inside the IQR of the place he's headed?
 
At a glance, Rosalind matriculant medians were 3.5/507, so if he was something like 3.9/505-506, he's actually on the stronger side. Same goes for some others, e.g. Oakland matriculant medians 3.8/505, so again he's not even below average for their class.

/shrug it honestly doesn't look like he's an outlier in the slightest. Wherever he is headed probably liked his particular ECs and liked him at interview. Gotta always remember that what is normal for SDN is actually very competitive!
 
No harm in asking This is an anonymous forum. Perhaps the answers here will be helpful to you. My thought is the degree of arbitrariness in the process. The admissions committees and their members may develop decision fatigue. They may have a good or bad day when they look at an app. If someone wins the lottery then is handed an app I like the chances of that app going through. There may be a point where the applications start to blend together for a reviewer. There may be some detachment from the person on the other end of the app and the reviewing could become a routine. Some people do their jobs efficiently but may be happy if they stay in a safe zone The extra time for each decision can become a few minutes extra away from a nice home cooked meal. I am not trying to diminish the system or the people. In fact I think that the adcoms who post here are probably the best of the best. I think that
They have retained that link to the applicant. But if there are 3000 people reviewing applications across The country there will be good bad and average. Same principle applies to a large medical group. They are never all great. They say that Harvard could deny all of its accepted UG applicants, take the next group that they rejected and the difference would be barely perceptible. Rant over. Thank you very much. I'll be here all week.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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His stats seem fine 75% is like 507-508 and his GPA is 3.9... also I highly doubt the "kids that cheat on every test in undergrad" are the same ones pulling MCAT scores in the 95%.
 
Pocket Rockets said:
maybe I'm out of touch with this stuff now but it seems like you're hating because those stats seem fine to me
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jcorpsmanMD said:
Why are you hating on your cousin getting into medical school? Shouldn't you be happy for him? Maybe he's just an alright guy that killed his interviews. You need to chill bruh
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I wasn't hating on him, I'm very happy he made it. I'm just curious b/c maybe there's something I missed in the admissions process...I asked him what he thought got him all those IIs and he has no idea. He's the one who told me to post here lol it's all cool
 
Blanky said:
His stats seem fine 75% is like 507-508 and his GPA is 3.9... also I highly doubt the "kids that cheat on every test in undergrad" are the same ones pulling MCAT scores in the 95%.
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He took the MCAT twice so average would be 503, but I guess with the GPA it would still be fine for low tier MD. Okay yeah, that's an exaggeration that they cheated on all the tests but this group is notorious for regularly copying lab reports, paying others to write their English essays, and sitting in groups during test time to collaborate. They got caught once too, but I guess it didn't hurt them because they still all got accepted first time. I'm thinking they actually studied for that MCAT though, just not properly in undergrad.
 
McDreamy123 said:
You seem salty over your cousin getting accepted. Wowzaaa. You should be pumped for them!
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hmm, maybe my post is worded all wrong. I'm not salty or hating on him. I am very happy he got in. I'm just curious about the other factors that adcoms may have considered when deciding to accept him, since on paper, he didn't have the best app. He is the one who actually told me to post on here, b/c he himself hasn't got a clue how it all worked out. He figured he wouldn't get any MD IIs being a reapp with 503 MCAT avg, and avg ECs/essays that he didn't revamp at all the second time. So, I'm not doing this behind his back lol we both are curious
 
I think this is the issue with SDN. I love this forum all around, but it just gives applicants an unrealistic expectation of what a "good" applicant is. When so many people on here are scoring 515+, you begin to think that's the norm. You have to keep in mind that these scores are the minority, not the average.

You say he got interviews at Creighton, Penn State, Oakland-- his stats are near perfect for these schools. Most of them have average MCATs in the 507 range, but with a GPA lower than his (~ 3.6-3.7). The fact that he managed to snag interviews at these places with a 3.9/503 is not really all that shocking. Once he got the interview, his personality is probably what got him acceptances. I've seen many high-stat applicants getting rejected post-interview because they had dry personalities. Stats aren't everything.

I'd also like to point out that being on the Dean's List is not an "average" EC, as you say. I didn't list being on the Dean's List as one of my ECs even though I was, but I know that it takes a lot of hard work and I doubt the average applicant in the real world can claim that achievement. Again, SDN =/= real world.
 
mariposas905 said:
he didn't have the best app.
Click to expand...

You know people that "don't have the best app" get in every single year, right? I don't think you thought this out before posting. (Every question/scenario you think up doesn't deserve its own thread btw.)

Imagine how dope you'd be if you worried about yourself. Put all this energy toward your own journey. Your cousin is where you're trying to be.
 
efle said:
The bar for interviews is usually lower than for admits
Click to expand...

This is true. We've been told that SOMs are accepting 2-3 times the number of seats, and that's not counting their WL. Since they can only accept and WL students they've interviewed, they have to interview a high number (and that's not counting the ones they reject post-interview).

So if a SOM seats 150 M1 students, then that would suggest to me that they've accepted 300-450 students, maybe WL'd another 100-200, and rejected maybe 100-200 post-interview. (Do these numbers sound plausible?). If these numbers are close, then they're interviewing about 800 students.
 
PreMedMissteps said:
This is true. We've been told that SOMs are accepting 2-3 times the number of seats, and that's not counting their WL. Since they can only accept and WL students they've interviewed, they have to interview a high number (and that's not counting the ones they reject post-interview).

So if a SOM seats 150 M1 students, then that would suggest to me that they've accepted 300-450 students, maybe WL'd another 100-200, and rejected maybe 100-200 post-interview. (Do these numbers sound plausible?). If these numbers are close, then they're interviewing about 800 students.
Click to expand...
This is accurate. Schools usually interview anywhere from 600-1,000 applicants for an entering class of around 100-150.

I wish the MSAR gave data on how many offers of acceptance were actually given out, but unfortunately they jump from the number interviewed to the number matriculated.
 
fldoctorgirl said:
I think this is the issue with SDN. I love this forum all around, but it just gives applicants an unrealistic expectation of what a "good" applicant is. When so many people on here are scoring 515+, you begin to think that's the norm. You have to keep in mind that these scores are the minority, not the average.

You say he got interviews at Creighton, Penn State, Oakland-- his stats are near perfect for these schools. Most of them have average MCATs in the 507 range, but with a GPA lower than his (~ 3.6-3.7). The fact that he managed to snag interviews at these places with a 3.9/503 is not really all that shocking. Once he got the interview, his personality is probably what got him acceptances. I've seen many high-stat applicants getting rejected post-interview because they had dry personalities. Stats aren't everything.

I'd also like to point out that being on the Dean's List is not an "average" EC, as you say. I didn't list being on the Dean's List as one of my ECs even though I was, but I know that it takes a lot of hard work and I doubt the average applicant in the real world can claim that achievement. Again, SDN =/= real world.
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Yeah not gonna lie I had to get off SDN for a little while as a premed because I really started believing there was no way I'd get into med school. I read a few too many "Got a B+ in physics but I have a 3.9cGPA, 800 hours of shadowing, 5 letters of rec and a 39 MCAT... am I totally screwed?" posts.
 
OchemOficionado said:
You know people that "don't have the best app" get in every single year, right? I don't think you thought this out before posting. (Every question/scenario you think up doesn't deserve its own thread btw.)

Imagine how dope you'd be if you worried about yourself. Put all this energy toward your own journey. Your cousin is where you're trying to be.
Click to expand...

I think you might be reading into my words too much...I'm not to trying to annoy people with this thread. I'm honestly just trying to get some insight into how the process works since SDN usually expects ORM/reapp/503 avg/low EC hours to get less IIs than he got. That info might help me when planning my school list, that's all. Don't see why I can't post it :shrug:
 
PreMedMissteps said:
This is true. We've been told that SOMs are accepting 2-3 times the number of seats, and that's not counting their WL. Since they can only accept and WL students they've interviewed, they have to interview a high number (and that's not counting the ones they reject post-interview).

So if a SOM seats 150 M1 students, then that would suggest to me that they've accepted 300-450 students, maybe WL'd another 100-200, and rejected maybe 100-200 post-interview. (Do these numbers sound plausible?). If these numbers are close, then they're interviewing about 800 students.
Click to expand...

fldoctorgirl said:
This is accurate. Schools usually interview anywhere from 600-1,000 applicants for an entering class of around 100-150.

I wish the MSAR gave data on how many offers of acceptance were actually given out, but unfortunately they jump from the number interviewed to the number matriculated.
Click to expand...

Huh, that makes a lot more sense. I didn't know schools can accept 450 candidates for 150 seats! What happens if more than 150 people end up wanting to go that school? how can they be sure that only the required class number will matriculate :thinking:
 
mariposas905 said:
I think you might be reading into my words too much...I'm not to trying to annoy people with this thread. I'm honestly just trying to get some insight into how the process works since SDN usually expects ORM/reapp/503 avg/low EC hours to get less IIs than he got. That info might help me when planning my school list, that's all. Don't see why I can't post it :shrug:
Click to expand...

You've made several threads similar to this. How much more insight are you hoping to gain? In one of your other threads you said your stats are "decent and competitive" so they're probably higher than your friend's stats anyway. If you need help with a school list you should post your stats in the WAMC. There's some awesome folks there that can help you based directly on YOUR situation.
 
PreMedMissteps said:
This is true. We've been told that SOMs are accepting 2-3 times the number of seats, and that's not counting their WL. Since they can only accept and WL students they've interviewed, they have to interview a high number (and that's not counting the ones they reject post-interview).

So if a SOM seats 150 M1 students, then that would suggest to me that they've accepted 300-450 students, maybe WL'd another 100-200, and rejected maybe 100-200 post-interview. (Do these numbers sound plausible?). If these numbers are close, then they're interviewing about 800 students.
Click to expand...

fldoctorgirl said:
This is accurate. Schools usually interview anywhere from 600-1,000 applicants for an entering class of around 100-150.

I wish the MSAR gave data on how many offers of acceptance were actually given out, but unfortunately they jump from the number interviewed to the number matriculated.
Click to expand...

mariposas905 said:
Huh, that makes a lot more sense. I didn't know schools can accept 450 candidates for 150 seats! What happens if more than 150 people end up wanting to go that school? how can they be sure that only the required class number will matriculate :thinking:
Click to expand...


Colleges and SOMs use models to guide them with acceptance numbers. Sometimes there are "too many" that want to matriculate and then SOMs will offer incentives for some students to defer enrollment for a year. I'm not sure, but if a SOM normally seats 150 and 153 want to matriculate, they may just leave that at 153 because it's not unusual for a couple of students to leave a SOM the first week or two....or decide to go elsewhere a day or two before classes start.
 
mariposas905 said:
I think you might be reading into my words too much...I'm not to trying to annoy people with this thread. I'm honestly just trying to get some insight into how the process works since SDN usually expects ORM/reapp/503 avg/low EC hours to get less IIs than he got. That info might help me when planning my school list, that's all. Don't see why I can't post it :shrug:
Click to expand...

I understand why you posted the question. Your cousin's situation seems counter to common SDN wisdom which promotes: applying early, having a high GPA, having an MCAT 30/508+ (higher for ORMs), and having some non-cookie-cutter medically-related ECs.

Does the OOS med school have a low number of ORMs?

I'm not surprised that all the DO schools accepted him. I think DO schools readily accept applicants with MD-acceptable stats as long as there isn't some negative that would cause a rejection.

BTW....I've never heard of counting the Dean's List as an EC. An honor or achievement, yes, but not an EC.
 
I get that SDN has a lot of neurotic people, and a lot of people who are high stats but not necessarily neurotic, and because it's a large site, there's a fair number of people who had great apps but were unlucky outliers and now have to reapply.

But SDN is also full of people linking to AMCAS tables and explaining that SDN is not representative of the population.

So why does it always seem like there are so many posts with this sort of question. If you are smart enough to get a 3.8 and a 510, why not look at the AMCAS tables? There's this cycle where people go "Ohh SDN is full of neurotic people it makes me so stressed" or bemoan the stats focus here, and then often the same posters ignore easily-available information which might reduce some of their anxiety. I know this whole process stresses people out for good reasons, but couldn't we do a little better?
/end rant
 
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To be honest those stats dont seem so bad.
Sounds like. 3.9/30 with average CV which seems to get him the right range of interviews too
 
cactusman said:
But SDN is also full of people linking to AMCAS tables and explaining that SDN is not representative of the population.

So why does it always seem like there are so many posts with this sort of question. If you are smart enough to get a 3.8 and a 510, why not look at the AMCAS tables? There's this cycle where people go "Ohh SDN is full of neurotic people it makes me so stressed" or bemoan the stats focus here, and then often the same posters ignore easily-available information which might reduce some of their anxiety. I know this whole process stresses people out for good reasons, but couldn't we do a little better?
/end rant
Click to expand...

Because posters are people and human beings are social creatures who value validation. To some, looking at charts and tables does not necessarily provide the same comfort that another person can provide.
 
mariposas905 said:
I recently saw my cousin's AMCAS app (he is matriculating MD this year) and frankly, I'm surprised he got the interviews he did. He is an ORM reapplicant who took the MCAT twice and got below a 73% both times. His ECs are very average in my opinion (things like Dean's List, AED, and Yoga club member take up full entries) and his essays are general with grammatical mistakes. He did not change his essays the second time he applied either.

He applied early last year with a 3.9 GPA, and received many low-tier interviews (NEOMED, Rosalind, Creighton, Oakland, Penn State, Drexel, VCU, Tulane), as well as an acceptance into every DO school applied. He is going to an MD school that takes very few OOS and has a heavy service emphasis, but he still got in. I figured OOS schools would want higher stats...

Is it common to get into low-tier medical schools with an average application like this? There is honestly nothing amazing about his app, and I'm wondering how he managed to get so many IIs at MD schools. Could it just be that the GPA is weighted that heavily?
Click to expand...


Well I see pre-allo hasn't changed much.
 
Pocket Rockets said:
maybe I'm out of touch with this stuff now but it seems like you're hating because those stats seem fine to me
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jcorpsmanMD said:
Why are you hating on your cousin getting into medical school? Shouldn't you be happy for him? Maybe he's just an alright guy that killed his interviews. You need to chill bruh
Click to expand...

Guys give OP a break. He isn't hating on his cousin. For pete's sake, all the dude is doing is asking how a relatively "average" applicant got admitted. And BTW, don't say its cause OP is a neurotic/competitive pre-med. If his cousin is already in medical school, assuming OP didn't apply this cycle and got rejected, they aren't competing against one another.

My sibling got into medical school with a really weird application. I find myself asking how the heck its possible? Maybe its because it was over a decade ago he applied and if you had a 30 you were Harvard/Cornell/Columbia bound. Who knows? Just chill on the hating...if anything, you guys are hating on OP.
 
Robin-jay said:
I know "N=1" means, "in my experience"...is that just because the sample size is 1?

I've always thought so, but never saw anyone confirm that 😛
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It’s usually a caveat that what follows is going to be either anecdotal or based on an extremely small sample size, so take it with a grain of salt. So yeah.
 
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