Current Columbia students: tough being in the same classes as med students?

[FROGGBUSTER]

How tough is it taking didactics along with medical students? Are med students always at the top of your classes?

Maybe it's due to some inferiority complex, but I've always wondered how cream-of-the-crop dental students would stack up against cream-of-the-crop med students...

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[SupDanLOL]

Weren't you taking courses with pre-meds throughout undergrad?

 

[FROGGBUSTER]

Weren't you taking courses with pre-meds throughout undergrad?

Pre-meds != Med students though. Most of the pre-meds I knew were in way over their heads and very few went on to get into medical school.

 

[SupDanLOL]

Fair enough. But come junior/senior year...the true competition in upper level bio courses mainly consists of kids going to professional school. To get an A or even a B you had to beat out the other future med/dental/vet students. Many of which are going to top-notch schools like Columbia. At least in the classes I took. At least at the school I was at.

All this to say...relax. It's not that bad. I know this based on my logic above. But also based on what I've been told by Columbia Dental and Med students. (I suppose I should have just said that to begin with).

 

[futuredoc1004]

It is not about competing with others, rather about each student learning the material.

 

[flapaTron]

How tough is it taking didactics along with medical students? Are med students always at the top of your classes?

Maybe it's due to some inferiority complex, but I've always wondered how cream-of-the-crop dental students would stack up against cream-of-the-crop med students...

you are graded differently. they are P/F, dental students are H/P/F.

they generally out-perform the dental students in terms of averages.

 

[uclaDDS101]

How tough is it taking didactics along with medical students? Are med students always at the top of your classes?

Maybe it's due to some inferiority complex, but I've always wondered how cream-of-the-crop dental students would stack up against cream-of-the-crop med students...

At a different school, but since you're wondering... our cream-of-the-crop dental students stack up fine among our cream-of-the-crop med students.

 

[Charmm]

At a different school, but since you're wondering... our cream-of-the-crop dental students stack up fine among our cream-of-the-crop med students.

Plz define fine. What where the class averages for anatomy, pathophys?

 

[uclaDDS101]

Cause your school is P/F buddy. But, plz
define fine. What where the class averages for anatomy, pathophys?

Averages were around mid 80's. The dental students pretty much bell curve it centered on that. On some exams, there have been dental students who got 100%.

 

[Charmm]

Thats interesting, I guess the biggest advantage of H/P/F is that students set the bar higher. We have many 100% in every exam, and not things like immunology or Microbio, subjects like cardiology or neuroscience. Our average is mostly around 88% and you need 90% for most classes to honor but sometimes there are curves.

This would have sounded funny in my undergrad, but here honestly every body is doing well.

 

[tayloreve]

you are graded differently. they are P/F, dental students are H/P/F.

they generally out-perform the dental students in terms of averages.

why do you think that is? i figured it would be pretty equal ;o

 

[Charmm]

why do you think that is? i figured it would be pretty equal ;o

In blocks like microbio, neuroscience, and several others, we have additional lectures to what med-students study, so our tests sometimes cover more material ( some blocks like pulmonary we were not responsible for some cancer pathology/histo lectures)
and some times less material.

 

[dentalWorks]

Plz define fine. What where the class averages for anatomy, pathophys?

pathophys??? from DS1 first term? yeh right

 

[CULionTeeth]

How tough is it taking didactics along with medical students? Are med students always at the top of your classes?

Maybe it's due to some inferiority complex, but I've always wondered how cream-of-the-crop dental students would stack up against cream-of-the-crop med students...

For our class, we've been about a point above or below the med school averages on every exam this semester- usually mid-high 80s with a pass around 70

 

[CULionTeeth]

For our class, we've been about a point above or below the med school averages on every exam this semester- usually mid-high 80s with a pass around 70

And as far as the atmosphere goes, at least for my year, we hang out with the med students a lot and have socials together since we see them all the time so there's no bad blood there as some may assume

 

[dentalWorks]

lets get into a more important topic....

Which class has better looking folks?

 

[uclaDDS101]

Thats interesting, I guess the biggest advantage of H/P/F is that students set the bar higher. We have many 100% in every exam, and not things like immunology or Microbio, subjects like cardiology or neuroscience. Our average is mostly around 88% and you need 90% for most classes to honor but sometimes there are curves.

This would have sounded funny in my undergrad, but here honestly every body is doing well.

Maybe your exams are just easier (But speaking honestly, if you have that many 100% on every exam, that's a classic indicator that your exams should be more difficult. Just saying; no accusations.)

The other explanation is that you guys are just vastly more motivated and intelligent than us.. I have no comment on this.

lets get into a more important topic....

Which class has better looking folks?

Obviously, dental students..

 

[Jackson-Ave-Dental]

Maybe your exams are just easier (But speaking honestly, if you have that many 100% on every exam, that's a classic indicator that your exams should be more difficult. Just saying; no accusations.)

The other explanation is that you guys are just vastly more motivated and intelligent than us.. I have no comment on this.



Obviously, dental students..

I thought the hygiene students were the best looking ones as a bunch of them are usually fresh out of highschool..........

 

[Charmm]

Maybe your exams are just easier (But speaking honestly, if you have that many 100% on every exam, that's a classic indicator that your exams should be more difficult. Just saying; no accusations.)

The other explanation is that you guys are just vastly more motivated and intelligent than us.. I have no comment on this.



Obviously, dental students..

Motivation thats all. If there is one place with no easy exams or grade inflation, thats columbia.

 

[Charmm]

pathophys??? from DS1 first term? yeh right

pathophys second semester D1 babyyyy,

 

[uclaDDS101]

Motivation thats all. If there is one place with no easy exams or grade inflation, thats columbia.

Interesting. Any reason you think columbia students are more motivated than harvard students?

 

[CULionTeeth]

Maybe your exams are just easier (But speaking honestly, if you have that many 100% on every exam, that's a classic indicator that your exams should be more difficult. Just saying; no accusations.)

The other explanation is that you guys are just vastly more motivated and intelligent than us.. I have no comment on this.



Obviously, dental students..

Interesting. Any reason you think columbia students are more motivated than harvard students?

There's no need to be condescending here..OP's question was whether dental students "stack up" didactically to medical students, and the conclusion was that both groups of professional students are scoring roughly the same..

The vast majority of dental students must be extremely motivated to have gotten where they are. At this point in our education, shouldn't the main concern not be the range of scores on exams between programs but rather just sufficiently learning the material itself for future clinical/life application?

 

[Jackson-Ave-Dental]

Interesting. Any reason you think columbia students are more motivated than harvard students?

I like you and all but... this thread is about the students in Columbia.

Comparing performances inter-schools is pointless to begin with. Its just an improper experiment to report results! You'd need to put all the kids together in the same lecture and give them the same exam!

 

[flapaTron]

Interesting. Any reason you think columbia students are more motivated than harvard students?

from what I understand, Harvard is strictly P/F. you'd be surprised how much that little "H" can motivate students

 

[soccer2220]

Since this thread is about Columbia, could any current students elaborate on the A square program? How many professors record their lectures?

 

[Stacker]

Interesting. Any reason you think columbia students are more motivated than harvard students?

Holy moley your stats are epic.

 

[uclaDDS101]

I like you and all but... this thread is about the students in Columbia.

Comparing performances inter-schools is pointless to begin with. Its just an improper experiment to report results! You'd need to put all the kids together in the same lecture and give them the same exam!

I agree. I wasn't initially intending to compare. I actually didn't understand why Charmm wanted to compare exam averages. I was just responding to this:

Plz define fine. What where the class averages for anatomy, pathophys?

 

[Msmouth]

Holy moley your stats are epic.

Wow!!! Killer Stats! Isn't 30 a perfect score???

 

[Charmm]

this year most lectures were recorded, even small courses with total of 20 or less hours of lecture.



To UCLAdds , concept of grade really breaks down when it gets to professions like dentistry and medicine. Sure for an exam like anatomy, 88% is a good score. But, when you're dealing with human beings, you should try to learn as much as you can. I think that the H/P/F grading system really motivates students to learn as much as they can, meanwhile students are not worried about having bad grades in their transcript. There was a reson UCLA started using this grading system !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FLOSS UR TEETH]

uclaDDS101, are you human?

 

[uclaDDS101]

this year most lectures were recorded, even small courses with total of 20 or less hours of lecture.



To UCLAdds , concept of grade really breaks down when it gets to professions like dentistry and medicine. Sure for an exam like anatomy, 88% is a good score. But, when you're dealing with human beings, you should try to learn as much as you can. I think that the H/P/F grading system really motivates students to learn as much as they can, meanwhile students are not worried about having bad grades in their transcript. There was a reson UCLA started using this grading system !!!!!!!!!!!!

Gotcha. No worries. I'm not saying anything's wrong with H/P/F grading at all. I'm glad you're enjoying it. And yes, there was "a reason" that UCLA started using H/P/F, but do you know it? I can guarantee you that it's not because their previous students were incompetent or unmotivated when they were in a P/F curriculum...

There's nothing wrong with H/P/F, P/F, or letter grades; it's the content that you learn that matters. You won't be a more competent practitioner than us just because you're H/P/F; just as a student from a graded d school won't necessarily be more motivated than you just because they have letter grades.

And again, I'm not trying to compare our schools' exam averages. There's no way to compare an 88% on our exams vs. an 88% on yours. I don't know why we're having this discussion.

uclaDDS101, are you human?

1/2

 

[Charmm]

Gotcha. No worries. I'm not saying anything's wrong with H/P/F grading at all. I'm glad you're enjoying it. And yes, there was "a reason" that UCLA started using H/P/F, but do you know it? I can guarantee you that it's not because their previous students were incompetent or unmotivated when they were in a P/F curriculum...

There's nothing wrong with H/P/F, P/F, or letter grades; it's the content that you learn that matters. You won't be a more competent practitioner than us just because you're H/P/F; just as a student from a graded d school won't necessarily be more motivated than you just because they have letter grades.

And again, I'm not trying to compare our schools' exam averages. There's no way to compare an 88% on our exams vs. an 88% on yours. I don't know why we're having this discussion.



1/2

We're just providing information for predents.

In short, OP, the answer is no, it is not tough taking classes with med students, but it is a great opportunity to learn top-notch biomedical core sciences in dental school. Again, the H/P/F is only to motivate students to work hard and no, IT IS NOT TO CREATE COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT.

As long as you work and try you'll do well, which is the case in our class.

 

[flapaTron]

We're just providing information for predents.

In short, OP, the answer is no, it is not tough taking classes with med students, but it is a great opportunity to learn top-notch biomedical core sciences in dental school. Again, the H/P/F is only to motivate students to work hard and no, IT IS NOT TO CREATE COMPETITIVE ENVIRONMENT.

As long as you work and try you'll do well, which is the case in our class.

completely disagree. everyone here competes for these H's. why would people work hard if there was no incentive to do so (e.g. earnin dem H's)? Sure, gunning doesnt really exist but that doesnt mean it's not competitive.

 

[MedDevil]

completely disagree. everyone here competes for these H's. why would people work hard if there was no incentive to do so (e.g. earnin dem H's)? Sure, gunning doesnt really exist but that doesnt mean it's not competitive.

Is there a strict percentage of students that can earn an H in a particular class, for example, the top 10% of students, or is it just set up as something like "a grade of 85% or higher in the class earns an H"?

 

[Charmm]

Is there a strict percentage of students that can earn an H in a particular class, for example, the top 10% of students, or is it just set up as something like "a grade of 85% or higher in the class earns an H"?

Nope, whether 50 people or 5, as long as you score above the honors bar, you'll honor. So, I think that does not create a competitive environment, but thats my opinion.

 

[Charmm]

completely disagree. everyone here competes for these H's. why would people work hard if there was no incentive to do so (e.g. earnin dem H's)? Sure, gunning doesnt really exist but that doesnt mean it's not competitive.

if the bar is set ( 90, 85 whatever) how does that create competition? If only the top 10 or 15 % was going to honor, regardless of the score, that would have been competition. I'm not sure what you're implying honestly.

 

[flapaTron]

if the bar is set ( 90, 85 whatever) how does that create competition? If only the top 10 or 15 % was going to honor, regardless of the score, that would have been competition. I'm not sure what you're implying honestly.

it is true that some classes have a flat cutoff (e.g. 85, 90). however, there are PLENTY of classes here that do not follow this rule - everyone is graded on a curve, and H's are decided based on a standard deviation, NOT a cutoff (anatomy, dental lab, etc). hence, competition ensues. there's nothing wrong with that, it's a perfectly natural response.

i'm not implying anything - i'm explicitly stating my content. it is competitive here at columbia, to say otherwise is inaccurate. kids here are bright and hard working - but this does not mean classes aren't cohesive and friendly.

 

[Charmm]

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3ize/

it is true that some classes have a flat cutoff (e.g. 85, 90). however, there are PLENTY of classes here that do not follow this rule - everyone is graded on a curve, and H's are decided based on a standard deviation, NOT a cutoff (anatomy, dental lab, etc). hence, competition ensues. there's nothing wrong with that, it's a perfectly natural response.

i'm not implying anything - i'm explicitly stating my content. it is competitive here at columbia, to say otherwise is inaccurate. kids here are bright and hard working - but this does not mean classes aren't cohesive and friendly.

 

[flapaTron]

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3ize/

you can disagree all you want - doesn't change the fact that SOME classes have a strict cutoff and SOME class are based on curves/standard deviations.

 

[Charmm]

you can disagree all you want - doesn't change the fact that SOME classes have a strict cutoff and SOME class are based on curves/standard deviations.

Naaaaaaa, I didnt know this though