Currently thinking about how lame I think Clinical Volunteering is, am I being too cynical?

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Tigriski

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So, I am about to finish undergrad and I'm not really worried about my application or most of my extracurriculars however I have no clinical volunteering. This doesn't even remotely bother me either. I've shadowed. I understand volunteering in the clinical setting is important and is obviously very important for hospitals and clinics to function and somehow being around the profession lets you know if you want to be a doctor?

Why is it that everyone suggests you bump up your volunteering hours? do you think that will make you a better doctor? Do they honestly think sitting in a setting telling someone the bathroom is down the hall and to the left creates empathy? I don't buy into sappy sob stories about revelations about helping someone and they now feel better. As if, as a volunteer, that really was you're doing.... That the medicine at work, not me. I just can't buy into the sappy sob story of a volunteers self fulfilled importance. (I'm strictly talking about college kids, because everyones volunteering. I'm wondering why; are you satisfied?) What exactly are you learning while spending time in the clinical setting that you legally, and probably physically, cannot explore/ and or "get your hands dirty?"

I'm choosing medicine because I'm interested the science; I think the bridge between science and the humanity of health care is challenging. I want to be challenged. I thought it was useless for me to volunteer in a clinical setting because of all the legal ramifications and how little I felt I was doing. I got much more from shadowing.

This isn't an issue about not being enthusiastic or not trying hard enough. This is an issue about relevance and I found clinical volunteering to be irrelevant in helping me decide to go to medical school.

I guess, for me, I just can't spin it into gold.

P.s. I chose to do an alternative volunteering opportunity that is a link to health, just not clinical (I'm not trying to say volunteering isn't important. Just that, as a college student, I can find a more value in an experience related to health volunteering elsewhere)

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Volunteering in a clinical setting is in no way essential to an application, but it does knock down the volunteering and the clinical experience bit.
Volunteering IS essential to an application.
Clinical experience IS essential to an application.

You are not required to bundle both together. Not getting to do a lot is pretty obvious given that you have 0 training to do anything in a hospital/clinical setting.
 
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An applicant shows they are serious about going into medicine if they've dedicated a lot of time in their potential work environment and still are eager to apply. If you like the science but don't care for the clinical part, you should be looking into researching jobs rather than, ahem, patient care, which typically comes with being a medical doctor.

I personally love volunteering; not because i want to fuel my ego but simply because I feel like I am receiving more than I am giving. It is an honest, genuine feeling so please don't assume others are crafting "sob stories" to look good. As said before me, I don't think clinical volunteering is necessary always, but the experience itself is.
 
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Seriously though if you dislike it, separate it.

I have a clinical job (which is supposedly volunteering, but given that we are given a stipend+uniform allowance, I count it is employment)
I also volunteer.

I am pretty sure you already know why med schools want to see the above.
 
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Isn't shadowing classified under clinical experience?
 
An applicant shows they are serious about going into medicine if they've dedicated a lot of time in their potential work environment and still are eager to apply. If you like the science but don't care for the clinical part, you should be looking into researching jobs rather than, ahem, patient care, which typically comes with being a medical doctor.

I personally love volunteering; not because i want to fuel my ego but simply because I feel like I am receiving more than I am giving. It is an honest, genuine feeling so please don't assume others are crafting "sob stories" to look good. As said before me, I don't think clinical volunteering is necessary always, but the experience itself is.

This is the thing though! Do you believe that to be dedicated to something you have to be in that environment? I'm not an awkward person, I have people skills. I'm just being realistic and trying to see the social inequality that presents itself in medicine, which frankly, is seen outside of the hospital and clinics for people that don't have access to healthcare. I fully believe this will help me be a better doctor and find better solution. Your comment actually is what I find the most annoying about clinical volunteer assessment. Somehow not being into should spur someone away from medicine? As if the only reward is patient interaction? I'm interested in being a bridge between two discipline which is why I'm not searching for research jobs. I don't want to just be absorbed in my own thoughts, I want to fully interact. I just don't think clinical volunteering is that crucial of an experience.

I'm sure my thoughts about it are cynical, but not without some merit
 
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So you're saying your experiences have left you feeling
clynical.
 
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I actually think it's better to have a clinical job and nonclinical volunteering. The clinical job likely will give you better patient experiences than as a volunteer, since you are a paid, trained employee. The nonclinical volunteering shows your passion and altruism for a cause not related to medicine, which shows a bit more of who you are as a person.
 
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Isn't shadowing classified under clinical experience?

No, it's classified as "Physician Shadowing/Clinical Observation" in AMCAS and I wouldn't count shadowing as the clinical experience part of my application. You should do more that.

When people talk about clinical experience, they usually refer to experiences that can be categorized as "Community Service/Volunteering - Medical/Clinical" or "Paid Employment - Medical/Clinical".
 
There's a reason why you can't really "get your hands dirty." You've got to look before you leap. It's just like sticking a toe in to test the water. Don't look it from the perspective that you need to learn some external tangible facts like one of your classes. Do you like working with others? How tired are you of telling people where the bathroom or nearest Wendy's are after your shift is over? It's just one step of the path. You've got to make sure you can deal with it - because trust me, there are people who can't stand it (and like you, only care about the science) and go into research instead.
My advice would be to look for a different type of clinical experience. Look for something with better contact than just standing around telling people where the bathroom is. You could volunteer on the floor getting blankets and snacks for patients. You could be a patient transporter - taking them to and from appointments.
The clinical volunteering is a hoop to jump through, yes. But to some degree it helps weed out the applicants who have no interest in directly helping others - or people who are interested in medicine only for the science.
 
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It sounds like you need to find different volunteer positions.
 
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I can see the OP's point. If the only clinical options that are available to you seem to involve just sitting around and not getting to do much meaningful patient interaction then you'd definitely want to spend your time elsewhere. That's why it's so important for hospitals to allow volunteers to interact with patients (assuming that the proper training is in place, of course). Programs like NODA give you the opportunity to see that there is so much more to medicine than medications and treatments. As a person with a chronic illness, I know that comforting patients is the most important thing that a physician (or any healthcare professional) can do. I loved my clinical volunteering experiences because I was able to join an organization that I had first met as a patient myself. The members of this organization first supported me through a long hospitalization so I knew that being a member would allow me to support others. We provide support and companionship to chronically and terminally ill adolescents and young adults, forming friendships that last for years and even stay in contact with the families of our patient friends after the patients themselves have passed away. We're there for them whenever they need us, with whatever issues they have, both inside and outside the hospital. I feel blessed that this organization has been a part of my life for the past five years but I also understand that this opportunity isn't available everywhere. OP might just live in a place where these types of programs haven't yet been established so they're doing their best with what is available.
 
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This is the thing though! Do you believe that to be dedicated to something you have to be in that environment? I'm not an awkward person, I have people skills. I'm just being realistic and trying to see the social inequality that presents itself in medicine, which frankly, is seen outside of the hospital and clinics for people that don't have access to healthcare. I fully believe this will help me be a better doctor and find better solution. Your comment actually is what I find the most annoying about clinical volunteer assessment. Somehow not being into should spur someone away from medicine? As if the only reward is patient interaction? I'm interested in being a bridge between two discipline which is why I'm not searching for research jobs. I don't want to just be absorbed in my own thoughts, I want to fully interact. I just don't think clinical volunteering is that crucial of an experience.

I'm sure my thoughts about it are cynical, but not without some merit

Clinical volunteering is not crucial. Clinical experience is. And shadowing doesn't count. You need it, but it's not the same. You can't know what medicine is like without experiencing it. Most premeds have a pretty starry eyed vision of what medicine is like. You need to see how annoying, frustrating, and crappy it can be to see if the good outweighs the bad for you.
 
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Unmmmm clinical volunteering is a very important part of the application. As is evident in the Wisdom sticky(A Compilation of Essential SDN Wisdom), clinical VOLUNTEERING as well as volunteering in general were rated of highest importance in the AAMC adcom surveys in 2013 and 2015, alongside shadowing, GPA, and MCAT score.

Clinical experience in general is very important, and I'm sure having a serious commitment to service, even if it is non clinical, can make people look the other way if you have little in the ways of clinical service work. However, there can be no doubt that clinical volunteering is a critcal Part of the application.
 
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Unmmmm clinical volunteering is a very important part of the application. As is evident in the Wisdom sticky(A Compilation of Essential SDN Wisdom), clinical VOLUNTEERING as well as volunteering in general were rated of highest importance in the AAMC adcom surveys in 2013 and 2015, alongside shadowing, GPA, and MCAT score.

Clinical experience in general is very important, and I'm sure having a serious commitment to service, even if it is non clinical, can make people look the other way if you have little in the ways of clinical service work. However, there can be no doubt that clinical volunteering is a critcal Part of the application.
I sincerily doubt that lack of clinical volunteering would hinder an applicant that has clinical experience and volunteering. Also the mere presence of ot there does not equate to it being needed.

Paging Dr. Goro, Dr. gyngyn for consult
@Goro @gyngyn
 
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I sincerily doubt that lack of clinical volunteering would hinder an applicant that has clinical experience and volunteering. Also the mere presence of ot there does not equate to it being needed.

Paging Dr. Goro, Dr. gyngyn for consult
@Goro @gyngyn

It's easy to get and an important component of the application. More important than research. Unless you are applying MD/PhD, if you don't have any clinical service then you are just skipping a checkbox for no reason other than you are lazy. There are also many ways to obtain clinical service experience that don't involve manning a gift shop or shuffling bed pans between hospital rooms.
 
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Check the box , jump the hoop, play the game. Political statements are for people in power.
 
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It's easy to get and an important component of the application. More important than research. Unless you are applying MD/PhD, if you don't have any clinical service then you are just skipping a checkbox for no reason other than you are lazy. There are also many ways to obtain clinical service experience that don't involve manning a gift shop or shuffling bed pans between hospital rooms.
I am just not sure why that would be a meaningful box to check. I am employed as an EMT which shows that I have clinical experience. I volunteer non clinically because it would have more of an impact than clinical volunteering positions that I can find. Id like to hear an adcoms response either way.
 
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I am just not sure why that would be a meaningful box to check. I am employed as an EMT which shows that I have clinical experience. I volunteer non clinically because it would have more of an impact than clinical volunteering positions that I can find. Id like to hear an adcoms response either way.
Adcoms have already responded to this before. Clinical experience is good (paid or volunteer). Non-clinical experience is good (paid or volunteer). Clinical volunteering shows selflessness and service to patients in the medical field (which is presumably where an applicant is headed). Non-clinical volunteering shows selflessness and service to the people in the community (which is where we all exist) despite the perceived hospital/university/cubby in the corner of the library bubble that many students settle into.

You can't give solid advice without looking at the application as a whole. There is a reason why on the MSAR you don't see 100% of accepted students had clinical volunteering/non-clinical volunteering/paid (non) employment/medical employment/etc. There are exceptions.
 
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Volunteering in a clinical setting is in no way essential to an application, but it does knock down the volunteering and the clinical experience bit.
Volunteering IS essential to an application.
Clinical experience IS essential to an application.

You are not required to bundle both together. Not getting to do a lot is pretty obvious given that you have 0 training to do anything in a hospital/clinical setting.
This. As the OP points out, we simply want to know that one understands what they're getting into, and that they really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

When I suggest that people increase their volunteering (either clinical or non-clinical), it means that I think that they have too little.

While volunteering is not required, it is necessary in some form. Medicine is a service profession.

Just as an aside, EMT is considered to be merely a glorified bus driver.
 
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This. As the OP points out, we simply want to know that one understands what they're getting into, and that they really want to be around sick people for the next 30-40 years.

When I suggest that people increase their volunteering (either clinical or non-clinical), it means that I think that they have too little.

While volunteering is not required, it is necessary in some form. Medicine is a service profession.

Just as an aside, EMT is considered to be merely a glorified bus driver.
Ouch. Hopefully not all adcoms are as ignorant with that last statement.
 
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You shouldn't despise clinical volunteering. Clinical volunteering provides you with rudimentary knowledge regarding the clinical scene. At times it may get a little boring because you are limited with what you do, but it's a great experience.
 
Ouch. Hopefully not all adcoms are as ignorant with that last statement.

Most EMTs don't do much more than transport. If you're an EMT with the FDNY, that's different. Individual experience will trump generalizations, but you have to show it. @Goro has said as much in other posts.
 
Most EMTs don't do much more than transport. If you're an EMT with the FDNY, that's different. Individual experience will trump generalizations, but you have to show it. @Goro has said as much in other posts.
Perhaps he was talking about inter facility transport EMTs. We (911 EMS) do quite a good chunk more.
 
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Unmmmm clinical volunteering is a very important part of the application. As is evident in the Wisdom sticky(A Compilation of Essential SDN Wisdom), clinical VOLUNTEERING as well as volunteering in general were rated of highest importance in the AAMC adcom surveys in 2013 and 2015, alongside shadowing, GPA, and MCAT score.

Clinical experience in general is very important, and I'm sure having a serious commitment to service, even if it is non clinical, can make people look the other way if you have little in the ways of clinical service work. However, there can be no doubt that clinical volunteering is a critcal Part of the application.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted this as "What are the most important categories?" on AMCAS that adcoms look at, not "this is a required check box". The check box is some sort of volunteering and some sort of clinical experience. Clinical Volunteering is so important because it fulfills two mandatory check boxes, not because adcoms specifically look for volunteering in a clinical setting. I'm sure some schools have preferences for clinical volunteering, just like all schools have preferences for seeing something.

I'm sure a large portion of applicants volunteer clinically anyways, since the barriers of entry are much lower, so you'll see a majority of successful applicants having this, but I don't think it's a "check box".
 
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Just as an aside, EMT is considered to be merely a glorified bus driver.

What about scribing, CNA, and phlebotomist? Do you think those are good examples of clinical employment?
 
What about scribing, CNA, and phlebotomist? Do you think those are good examples of clinical employment?
I personally think that phlebotomy, CNA > scribing, but the latter seems to suffice for tons of people.

Perhaps he was talking about inter facility transport EMTs. We (911 EMS) do quite a good chunk more.
Then you need to distinguish this better.
 
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Perhaps he was talking about inter facility transport EMTs. We (911 EMS) do quite a good chunk more.

He repeats his sentiments about EMTs here often and so others will blindly repeat his advice, but their opinions do not reflect the informed reality of the experience in EMS.
 
If you wanna be a doctor shouldn't you enjoy your clinical volunteering experience? It isn't all about the sciences either
 
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I remember when I volunteered as a wateboy/pillow fetcher at an ER, one of the janitors was mopping up a room and told me not to come into it because the patient had **** all over the floor. That's one of my most memorable experiences volunteering. It can expose you some real-world scenarios that occur in the healthcare field. I definitely saw and learned more as a scribe though (deaths, HIV pts, stabbings, crazy pts, etc).
 
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I do all my clinical volunteering for selfish reasons. At first it was to verify that I could handle a 30 year career dealing with yucky, smelly, squishy, gross things. And to make sure I could deal with hostile, ungrateful old sick people who aren't my grandma. And to make sure I could work with sick kids and not crawl into a bottle after a tough shift.

It would suck to find out those answers after you've accumulated a couple hundred K in loans and wasted the best years of your life in a library with a bunch of coffee breathed nerds.
 
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I do all my clinical volunteering for selfish reasons. At first it was to verify that I could handle a 30 year career dealing with yucky, smelly, squishy, gross things. And to make sure I could deal with hostile, ungrateful old sick people who aren't my grandma. And to make sure I could work with sick kids and not crawl into a bottle after a tough shift.

It would suck to find out those answers after you've accumulated a couple hundred K in loans and wasted the best years of your life in a library with a bunch of coffee breathed nerds.
Not to mention having the guts to see a pile of anonymous severed limbs out in anatomy lab. Not everyone has the guts for that kind of stuff. I was studying neuroscience on a plane with pictures of dissected brains on my laptop and I could hear the guy next to me gagging, and then I remembered that not everyone in the world is in med school. Need to find out if you can handle that kind of stuff.
 
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I enjoy my clinical volunteering. I get to visit 20-30 patients (age 70+) in their hospital rooms and explain safety and how to have a successful hospital stay. We also bring them activities to stay busy. I think it's just good exposure to the hospital environment, talking to patients, their families, and other hospital employees. Maybe look for something like mine, where you can see patients in their rooms on your own and be more involved with the patient's stay at the hospital.
 
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You have to play the game to get the prize, OP.
 
I volunteer at a free health clinic and it is my favorite part of the week. Not only do I learn a ton, I also get to interact with patients. Best thing I've been a part of
It can also be the saddest part of your week.
 
I personally found clinical volunteering rewarding. It taught me a lot about altruism, empathy, teamwork, taking on minor responsibilities, etc. in a non-monetary setting.

But clinical volunteering just combines clinical experience and volunteerism. Not having either is a red flag.
 
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Clinical volunteering like you're describing where you are basically an usher or gift shop cashier? Yeah that's totally worthless. However, there are lots of good clinical volunteering opportunities that are excellent and provide valuable insights. You have to play the game.
 
Hospitals can't function without janitors. Teamwork makes the dream work, so do your part as a volunteer. You may not be saving lives or interacting with patients that much, but know that you do have an important job that helps other members of the healthcare team do their job.
 
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