BOTH D.O. should I or should I not take USMLE question

[Chinese13579]

hi,

i am still undecided on whether or not to take the usmle and my question is if i am only concerned about matching into my home state of new york (i go to lecom-bradenton in florida) and not too concerned about any specialty or the quality of residency, will it hurt my chances if i end up passing/doing ok on COMLEX and doing bad on the USMLE?

also is there a site that lists the programs in my home state? i have heard of FREIDA or something like that or do i go to each hospital's site i am interested in individually?

thanks!!!

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[TheOther]

Need more info. I'm guessing you're a second year? When are you planning on taking COMLEX and what have you been using to study? Have you taken any practice tests?

The general recommendation is for all DO's to take USMLE to make themselves more marketable for residencies. However, if you're set up to perform poorly on Step 1, it's better to do well on just COMLEX. I'm not sure about NY but there are plenty of residencies there that take DO's -- I'm sure you won't have a problem finding a program that will take you with just COMLEX, especially if you're flexible in terms of field and quality.

You can find the list of programs here: ERAS 2017 Participating Specialties & Programs

 

[Chinese13579]

Need more info. I'm guessing you're a second year? When are you planning on taking COMLEX and what have you been using to study? Have you taken any practice tests?

The general recommendation is for all DO's to take USMLE to make themselves more marketable for residencies. However, if you're set up to perform poorly on Step 1, it's better to do well on just COMLEX. I'm not sure about NY but there are plenty of residencies there that take DO's -- I'm sure you won't have a problem finding a program that will take you with just COMLEX, especially if you're flexible in terms of field and quality.

You can find the list of programs here: ERAS 2017 Participating Specialties & Programs

Hi thanks for the response. Yes I am M2, using Uworld, First Aid, Pathoma and Sketchy only and studying for USMLE first, then doing COMLEX like 4 days after.

But my question is lets say I don't get a 220 or whatever on the USMLE and instead a bad score like 200-210..... if I'm not all that concerned about any particular specialty and just matching somewhere (whether its DO, community, ACGME or high quality) will I be ok matching in new york? thats my home state so i'd just like to go back there.

also that site you listed is very helpful indeed, did not know about that and it seems to list programs for every single state by specialty/fellowship. so basically would i just find the score requirements for each program on the link for each hospital/program? how do i know which programs (md or do) accept just comlex or require usmle?

thanks!!!

 

[Anti-PD1]

I would still take it. It leaves the most doors open for you in terms of board certification and jobs.

The real question is whether you can withhold your USMLE scores and use your COMLEX scores only if you need to. I don't know, but my guess is probably not.

 

[TheOther]

I would still take it. It leaves the most doors open for you in terms of board certification and jobs.

The real question is whether you can withhold your USMLE scores and use your COMLEX scores only if you need to. I don't know, but my guess is probably not.

Nope, you have to report both.

 

[SlugMD]

The most common advice SDN advice I have read is that if you can't get ~230 on step 1 then just take the comlex alone.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying but I think SDN wisdom is a 500 level 1 alone is better than a 500 with a 200-220 step 1.

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

Take it. You do NOT have to report both, you can choose to report only 1, but if you're applying to DO residencies, you must report the COMLEX. Who are these people saying you need to report both? Jeez, stop.

 

[Clinicall]

Take it. You do NOT have to report both, you can choose to report only 1, but if you're applying to DO residencies, you must report the COMLEX. Who are these people saying you need to report both? Jeez, stop.

I think people need to differentiate the difference between whats ethical vs whats legal. You're not legally required to release your USMLE score, but I'm sure some people think that ethically you should report them.

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

I think people need to differentiate the difference between whats ethical vs whats legal. You're not legally required to release your USMLE score, but I'm sure some people think that ethically you should report them.

Reeeeelllaaaxxxxxx. If your USMLE score sucks and you're applying DO, don't report it. If your COMLEX sucks and you're applying MD, don't report it. You will screw yourself if you follow your logic. You're here to get a job and you will miss out on many opportunities if you follow your 'ethics'. Go read the EM threads and you will find out the consequences of releasing bad scores that aren't needed.

 

[Clinicall]

Reeeeelllaaaxxxxxx. If your USMLE score sucks and you're applying DO, don't report it. If your COMLEX sucks and you're applying MD, don't report it. You will screw yourself if you follow your logic. You're here to get a job and you will miss out on many opportunities if you follow your 'ethics'. Go read the EM threads and you will find out the consequences of releasing bad scores that aren't needed.

Although I'm sure you could withhold your USMLE score, I'm pretty sure you cant withhold your COMLEX score since your a DO applicant you have to take the COMLEX.

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

Although I'm sure you could withhold your USMLE score, I'm pretty sure you cant withhold your COMLEX score since your a DO applicant you have to take the COMLEX.

I did. I had relatively above average COMLEX scores with a failed PE, didn't release my COMLEX scores at all, offered interviews at 26 of the ACGME EM programs I applied to, matched at my #5. Do not put alternative facts out there.

 

[TheOther]

I did. I had relatively above average COMLEX scores with a failed PE, didn't release my COMLEX scores at all, offered interviews at 26 of the ACGME EM programs I applied to, matched at my #5. Do not put alternative facts out there.

That was my mistake then. My advisor made it sound like both had to be reported -- yay for DO school advisors.

But I think one thing to keep in mind is many of us will be applying with a good portion of AOA residencies already transitioned to the NRMP match. In which case, both scores will likely have to be reported, no?

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

That was my mistake then. My advisor made it sound like both had to be reported -- yay for DO school advisors.

But I think one thing to keep in mind is many of us will be applying with a good portion of AOA residencies already transitioned to the NRMP match. In which case, both scores will likely have to be reported, no?

Yeah, that's just a gray area. While those programs have a bias to HELP DOs, you're still going to be compared to MDs now that they have 'equal opportunity' at these previous AOA programs

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

I did. I had relatively above average COMLEX scores with a failed PE, didn't release my COMLEX scores at all, offered interviews at 26 of the ACGME EM programs I applied to, matched at my #5. Do not put alternative facts out there.

how'd you do the USMLE STEP 1 and how did you prepare? Slide in my DM's if you have to

appreciate it

 

[Chinese13579]

Reeeeelllaaaxxxxxx. If your USMLE score sucks and you're applying DO, don't report it. If your COMLEX sucks and you're applying MD, don't report it. You will screw yourself if you follow your logic. You're here to get a job and you will miss out on many opportunities if you follow your 'ethics'. Go read the EM threads and you will find out the consequences of releasing bad scores that aren't needed.

this is really what i need to know.... will a crappy usmle score hurt me if i just pass or do ok on the comlex and am just looking at mediocre DO residencies in say FM or Peds etc...

i know a bad usmle score sinks me for good MD residencies but i just need to know if it will have any impact on lower-tier DO residencies..... like you said as long as i can match somewhere thats what i want.

 

[ProgramCoordinator]

You need to check the requirements of programs that you are applying to. Some require both, some do not. Having said that, if you score low on your COMLEX you might want to do the USMLE. If could make the difference in getting an interview. For example if the program has a "score must be at least 550" and you get a 500, but take the USMLE and get a 219, you will probably get an interview.

Also, just a little friend advice. It's very important to look at the info given out by the programs you are applying to. I can tell you that if you don't meet the minimum score they have posted, you absolutely will not get an interview. In addition, some programs require you to pass your Step exams on the first attempt. If you don't, you will go in the reject pile immediately. You will be wasting your time and money.

 

[jw3600]

I did. I had relatively above average COMLEX scores with a failed PE, didn't release my COMLEX scores at all, offered interviews at 26 of the ACGME EM programs I applied to, matched at my #5. Do not put alternative facts out there.

You got 26 acgme interviews with no PE or CS? I'm suspicious...

 

[Rhabdoviridae]

hi,

i am still undecided on whether or not to take the usmle and my question is if i am only concerned about matching into my home state of new york (i go to lecom-bradenton in florida) and not too concerned about any specialty or the quality of residency, will it hurt my chances if i end up passing/doing ok on COMLEX and doing bad on the USMLE?

also is there a site that lists the programs in my home state? i have heard of FREIDA or something like that or do i go to each hospital's site i am interested in individually?

thanks!!!

One of my professors during basic sciences said that if you come from a state (or are looking to train a state) with a low overall percentage of osteopathic physicians, then it is a good idea to take the USMLE. Most such states are in the Northeast and West Coast.

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

You got 26 acgme interviews with no PE or CS? I'm suspicious...

And I couples matched, but you don't have to believe me. I was going to post a screenshot of the app from MyERAS, but I guess scores are not even on that downloadable PDF. When you have the USMLE to compare to MD applicants, does the COMLEX even matter? Do people even study for the COMLEX when they are taking the USMLE? I never understood why people don't take the USMLE regardless of their academic standing because if you don't do well, you can simply choose not to report it. I did the opposite and chose to focus on the USMLE because I knew I was couples matching and wanted more options and I ended up doing relatively worse on the COMLEX than I did on the USMLE so I chose not to report my COMLEX even being a DO.

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

You need to check the requirements of programs that you are applying to. Some require both, some do not. Having said that, if you score low on your COMLEX you might want to do the USMLE. If could make the difference in getting an interview. For example if the program has a "score must be at least 550" and you get a 500, but take the USMLE and get a 219, you will probably get an interview.

Also, just a little friend advice. It's very important to look at the info given out by the programs you are applying to. I can tell you that if you don't meet the minimum score they have posted, you absolutely will not get an interview. In addition, some programs require you to pass your Step exams on the first attempt. If you don't, you will go in the reject pile immediately. You will be wasting your time and money.

I am going to call BS on this. I know far too many anecdotes from when I applied where people were offered interviews and many that matched being 'below the minimum'. Many of them at some very reputable older programs, not these newly accredited places.

 

[megsannon22]

It's not really necessary in my opinion if you aren't applying to competitive residencies, it's additional cost for the exam, but if you think you can score well on it then go ahead, because it will keep all your doors open.

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

It's not really necessary in my opinion if you aren't applying to competitive residencies, it's additional cost for the exam, but if you think you can score well on it then go ahead, because it will keep all your doors open.

Or competitive cities or simply want more than a below average program? Wait until you attempt to apply to well-established institutions or programs and then you'll learn all about the DO bias and how important your USMLE scores are when being compared to MDs.

 

[MrWonderful]

DO here. I interviewed at many top institutions and was fortunate enough to be able to pick the brain of many program directors in the USMLE vs COMLEX debate. Some pertinent things I want to pass along to my friends here:

1. Take USMLE. There are new medical schools opening but stagnant residency positions. Each year, it gets harder and harder to match. I'm applying psych and we were told there was a 75% increase in applications sent per applicant. 75%!!!!!! Imagine a PD gets 1,000 applications... who is he going to interview, the DO with the USMLE or the DO without the USMLE?

2. Do well on COMLEX. When all else is equal, your COMLEX will be called into question. Many people don't understand how much this matters. Yes, you need a USMLE but you also need to excel on your COMLEX. So many students don't realize that OMM is up to 20-25% of their exam, so you can actually do remarkably well if you crush that question category. Use 'OMG OMT' + a qbank from COMQUEST and slay this thing and don't look back.

3. Make yourself stand out, now. New DO schools open every year, and unfortunately this prolific growth is harmful and devalues the degree that many of us have worked really hard to improve. By the time medical schools mimic law schools (in the sense that they will be heavily tiered and you'll be laughed at if you go to the bottom tier) all that will matter is where you do residency. In fact, residency is what matters & what makes you a physician. Nobody will care where you went to medical school if you were trained at ________. As such, you need to guarantee a match to a top program before you are "stuck" with some crappy new school that doesn't have the network or resources to make you a successful physician.

My 2 cents. Good luck and happy new year

 

[swiftjab]

Now if you fail USMLE, you still have to report it correct? That's my fear, having a passing COMLEX but a failing USMLE.

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

Now if you fail USMLE, you still have to report it correct? That's my fear, having a passing COMLEX but a failing USMLE.

No you dont have to report anything. I didn't even report my COMLEX scores and matched well

 

[medhoper]

You need to check the requirements of programs that you are applying to. Some require both, some do not. Having said that, if you score low on your COMLEX you might want to do the USMLE. If could make the difference in getting an interview. For example if the program has a "score must be at least 550" and you get a 500, but take the USMLE and get a 219, you will probably get an interview.

Also, just a little friend advice. It's very important to look at the info given out by the programs you are applying to. I can tell you that if you don't meet the minimum score they have posted, you absolutely will not get an interview. In addition, some programs require you to pass your Step exams on the first attempt. If you don't, you will go in the reject pile immediately. You will be wasting your time and money.

I’m very curious about this a 219 is better than a 500~ score?

 

[908377]

It's really tough to compare apples to oranges. You are definitely better off with a passing USMLE, period (obviously depending on the specialty & programs to which you are applying).

I recommend a 220+ USMLE and 600+ COMLEX to feel really at-ease.

 

[Redpancreas]

You can withhold COMLEX scores and withhold USMLE scores, correct?

 

[LaHolla91]

In terms of reporting, I have poor COMLEX and Step 1 scores but am hoping to match into California (not into a Kaiser or UC residency). Is it worth not reporting Step 1 and just going with COMLEX since my score is slightly better than Step and meets most minimum requirements? Or does just passing Step 1 alone open a ton of doors?

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

In terms of reporting, I have poor COMLEX and Step 1 scores but am hoping to match into California (not into a Kaiser or UC residency). Is it worth not reporting Step 1 and just going with COMLEX since my score is slightly better than Step and meets most minimum requirements? Or does just passing Step 1 alone open a ton of doors?

Reporting is an all-or-nothing scenario for all of you COMLEX or all of your USMLE scores once you submit them and they are already reported to you prior to your residency application submission. You're going to have a hard time either way if both scores suck. Pick your best combination of COMLEX or USMLE, but know that the COMLEX is about as helpful to originally non-AOA programs as the metric system is to most Americans

 

[OnlyOneZlatan]

what if i have it the other way around inwhich i have a failed comlex and a 251 step (dt being sick for comlex). should i just report usmle?

Exactly. That is what I did