D.O. Student Orthopedic Surgery Matched-AMA

[Dr. Anonymouss]

I chose the places based on which programs limited rotators and interviews. People have different views on this, but my main goal was to become an orthopedic surgeon. Therefore, I did not at the huge programs. I chose smaller, less "well-known" programs that limited their rotators and interviews. I would rather become an orthopedic surgeon in Antarctica than try and go to California and not get in, basically.

Personally, I would not rotate at any ACGME places. You have a limited amount of auditions. Some schools only allow 3. Others, like mine, allow unlimited so I was able to do 6. Again, why waste a month at a place that MOST LIKELY will ghost you when it comes time to rank? This whole ortho process is a numbers game. Again, I keep referring back to people who didn't match, but of the people last year and this year that did not match, this was an underlying theme. They all rotated at big name places and interviewed, but when you have 50+ interviews, what's the chances that YOU will be ranked top 3-5....? Much lower than if you get an interview at a place that only interviews 10.

PLAY THE NUMBER GAME. BECOME AN ORTHO SURGEON.
PLAY THE WHERE DO I REALLY WANNA GO GAME, RISK NOT MATCHING.

Was reading back on some of your older posts. Where can I find the info on how many students each program interviews. I think your strategy of rotating at places that limit interviews to a smaller amount is smart as those who are getting interviews were likely the ones rotating there.

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[TheBoneDoctah]

I am a 3rd year right now (just started clinicals). When do we apply for these auditions?

I would start sending emails around January before you start in July. It depends on the program, but some start booking early.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Was reading back on some of your older posts. Where can I find the info on how many students each program interviews. I think your strategy of rotating at places that limit interviews to a smaller amount is smart as those who are getting interviews were likely the ones rotating there.

There was a document that was going around (I honestly do not have access to it anymore and don’t know where it even originated. Some of it was accurate and some not). You can also ask program coordinators as they should have that information.

 

[KirksvilleKrunk]

My surgery rotation is this winter. I have 4 weeks general surg then 4 weeks ortho. Ortho will be with a foot & ankle specialist. I think they might take general ortho call a few days a month. Should I study just foot and ankle or also shoulder girdle, pelvis, hand etc? This person will write my surgery eval and I want to honor the rotation. Unsure about applying ortho yet.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

My surgery rotation is this winter. I have 4 weeks general surg then 4 weeks ortho. Ortho will be with a foot & ankle specialist. I think they might take general ortho call a few days a month. Should I study just foot and ankle or also shoulder girdle, pelvis, hand etc? This person will write my surgery eval and I want to honor the rotation. Unsure about applying ortho yet.

I am assuming you are a third year? If so, it depends on if you think you are going to be applying ortho. If you are, most students start prepping third year. By prep I mean start learning the basics of ortho (not just foot and ankle). If you aren't sure, maybe a happy medium would be studying foot and ankle and then studying for general ortho cases that you are involved in.

 

[Zobo135]

Hi! I was wondering if there have been any new reviews on osteopathic ortho programs this year so far?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Few things for DO ortho auditioners this year! Please PM me with any questions regarding auditions. Also, a new resource for orthopedic students just launched. Basically, it is a website where you can go and practice reading fracture radiographs and then get feedback on how you are supposed to read them. This is REALLY good practice for fracture conferences on your auditions. There are 140 x-rays and 300+ practice questions related to the x-rays. Find it at www.nailfractureconference.com

The last thing just added three reviews on Larkin, Riverside, and Rowan ortho programs on the ortho reviews link.
Osteopathic Orthopaedic Surgery Residency Reviews *Post Merger Version*

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Another review (PCOM) was posted in the residency review threads.

 

[Calizboosted76]

If you REALLY want ortho, you need to do EVERYTHING you can to get it. Yeah it sucked. I basically was away for 6 straight months. I started July 1 (my first rotation was 3 weeks, but the last five were full months) and went through December 15. Breaks? The only breaks I had were weekends in between rotations where I drove 12 hours home to spend some time with the family or flew home. Again, you basically have six months to earn a spot somewhere. Use every day. I was ready to go into January for auditions, but I felt like I had a good chance at a few programs and decided against it. Your time now is TRULY important and I knew I would feel terrible come match day when I got a "Sorry, you did not match to any program" knowing that I did not give it my all and use ALL of my time available. I know some medical schools do not allow for 6-7 auditions, but try to do as many as they will allow at programs that have low rotators to give you the best shot at matching.

As far as ERAS goes, you apply in September (if I remember correctly), but interviews for ortho don't start till like mid-December. All your friends will interview in October-December, but ortho starts super late for some reason. You may have a few interviews during your December or January audition if you go that late, but the faculty and residents understand you have to interview and they don't mind you leaving.

Sorry for the Necro bump. I had a question on the timeline. You said that you did 6 audition rotations and they went through December 15th. This was December 15th of 4th year Correct?

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

yes

 

[imatarheel]

How important are COMAT scores? Feeling a bit defeated with pediatrics, IM, and FM to go; only managed to honors my ortho rotation, GI, and surgery rotation. Psychiatry and OBGYN were both "passes", due to a high standard for honors for my school (5/5 eval + >90th percentile score on the COMAT). I hate how the COMATs ask questions and I'm starting to wonder if I should just be doing uworld/preparing to crush step2 at this point.

Have a ton of research on my end, and should end with about 5-8 pubs, with 8 or so acknowledgements in the ortho field (if that matters). Planning on only doing auditions at former AOA programs and should have great letters but these COMATs are really crushing me

 

[DOVinciRobot]

How important are COMAT scores? Feeling a bit defeated with pediatrics, IM, and FM to go; only managed to honors my ortho rotation, GI, and surgery rotation. Psychiatry and OBGYN were both "passes", due to a high standard for honors for my school (5/5 eval + >90th percentile score on the COMAT). I hate how the COMATs ask questions and I'm starting to wonder if I should just be doing uworld/preparing to crush step2 at this point.

Have a ton of research on my end, and should end with about 5-8 pubs, with 8 or so acknowledgements in the ortho field (if that matters). Planning on only doing auditions at former AOA programs and should have great letters but these COMATs are really crushing me

No one cares about COMATs.

 

[imatarheel]

No one cares about COMATs.

What a ******* relief. Posted on reddit a similar question and got eviscerated; people stating that if I didn't honor every rotation I'd be at a severe disadvantage/dont even bother applying. Guess Ill keep plugging on the research/connections/step2 train.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

Ortho auditions are coming up again! Please ask me anything. Also, an AMAZING way to start prepping for auditions is by learning how to read xrays and learn the most common pimp questions asked for specific fractures. Highly recommend this website for that!

www.nailfractureconference.com

 

[OMSRealWeebHours]

I have seen many Orthos practice but I probably would not do it. But congrats on getting there as a DO! Even the MDs I know who became Orthopedic Surgeons had to study pretty hard

 

[Shallow Grave]

How did you handle interviews when doing your rotations? I assume with 6 rotations you had auditions in November and December too? Isn't that when most of your interviews would be?

 

[MDMechEngr]

I have seen many Orthos practice but I probably would not do it. But congrats on getting there as a DO! Even the MDs I know who became Orthopedic Surgeons had to study pretty hard

Not to take away from OP's achievement as I know how hard they work to match ortho, but as a DO getting in to a 100% DO program is not extraordinary.

 

[OMSRealWeebHours]

Not to take away from OP's achievement as I know how hard they work to match ortho, but as a DO getting in to a 100% DO program is not extraordinary.

Still seems like 90% of DOs are FM or IM and Ortho DOs seem pretty rare

 

[Deecee2DO]

Not to take away from OP's achievement as I know how hard they work to match ortho, but as a DO getting in to a 100% DO program is not extraordinary.

Im not even ortho and even i know this is a pretty hot take. Matching ortho is damn impressive no matter where you match or what med school you came from.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

Not to take away from OP's achievement as I know how hard they work to match ortho, but as a DO getting in to a 100% DO program is not extraordinary.

this is a terrible take.. especially in the post merger era

 

[DarkHorizon]

Not to take away from OP's achievement as I know how hard they work to match ortho, but as a DO getting in to a 100% DO program is not extraordinary.

Is it extraordinary to match Ortho as an MD?

 

[Splenda88]

Is it extraordinary to match Ortho as an MD?

It was when I was a med student 6 yrs ago. It is up there with dermatology, ENT etc...

We are talking about 250/260 step 1/2... with a lot of resume padding. Not easy to do.

 

[DarkHorizon]

It was when I was a med student 6 yrs ago. It is up there with dermatology, ENT etc...

We are talking about 250/260 step 1/2... with a lot of resume padding. Not easy to do.

Then why would it be any different for DO students matching Ortho? If anything, it might be more difficult. It is often said here to take an MD acceptance over a DO school if one is interested in competitive specialties. Ortho might be the most competitive specialty.

 

[Splenda88]

Then why would it be any different for DO students matching Ortho? If anything, it might be more difficult. It is often said here to take an MD acceptance over a DO school if one is interested in competitive specialties. Ortho might be the most competitive specialty.

It's probably as difficult for DO. The post I responded to was only about MD.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

How did you handle interviews when doing your rotations? I assume with 6 rotations you had auditions in November and December too? Isn't that when most of your interviews would be?

Just let them know you have interviews. All the residents went through the same thing.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

This is not a bash on MD programs (as ACGME ortho is more sought after obviously and usually leads to better fellowships down the road), but to say previously DO programs are less stellar just shows your inexperience and lack of how this all works.

Most MD programs base their decisions purely on your app and your numbers. What does this mean? It means that MOST MD students do not audition or need to learn a ton of ortho to match. They excel on Step 1/2, research and match. For DOs, not only do you have to excel on everything, you have to spend 6 months auditioning and learn a ton of ortho (the knowledge the average DO student accepted knows is probably close to an intern at the end of their auditions).

Also, all in all, MOST DO programs are more hands-on on leading to their residents graduating being comfortable going straight into practice (if desired).

 

[imatarheel]

@TheBoneDoctah When do former AOA DO ortho programs send out their interview invites? I know it's later in the process, but just want to know when to expect them coming in and knowing when to be worried.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

@TheBoneDoctah When do former AOA DO ortho programs send out their interview invites? I know it's later in the process, but just want to know when to expect them coming in and knowing when to be worried.

I do not remember exactly when they came out...but interviews are later now than they used to be. I think we interviewed into January.

 

[BocephusTim]

Still seems like 90% of DOs are FM or IM and Ortho DOs seem pretty rare

They're not that rare in the Northeast states --- such as MI, PA, and OH --- there were a ton of DO ortho residency programs in the 90's and 2000's in those states, and even the small community health systems had them as opposed to the MD programs that required a large academic center --- however, the ortho fellowships have always usually been MD

 

[OMSRealWeebHours]

They're not that rare in the Northeast states --- such as MI, PA, and OH --- there were a ton of DO ortho residency programs in the 90's and 2000's in those states, and even the small community health systems had them as opposed to the MD programs that required a large academic center --- however, the ortho fellowships have always usually been MD

Is it institutional prestige that allows for more of them to match compared to the west and south or is it a culture thing where more students there work towards and apply for ortho due to higher interest, raising the rates?

 

[DOVinciRobot]

Is it institutional prestige that allows for more of them to match compared to the west and south or is it a culture thing where more students there work towards and apply for ortho due to higher interest, raising the rates?

What? No. That’s just where most of the DO ortho programs are located

 

[OMSRealWeebHours]

What? No. That’s just where most of the DO ortho programs are located

Oh, I misread and thought it was talking about the schools students were from, not the residency locations

 

[bored_suitcase]

I matched into orthopedic surgery! Please feel free to DM me and I can answer any questions you may have!

I just wanted to share the knowledge that I gained throughout the ortho process. Applying to ortho as a DO student can be confusing as there isn't much information out there. Throughout the process, I gained a ton of advice on SDN so I just wanted to give back. Please ask me anything! I promise I have nothing better to do right now.

Here are the meat and potatoes of my application. I had a lot of other things listed in research experiences, awards, etc, but I think what is listed below is 90% of my app. I was super specific on my research section below so you could see what kinda stuff I had.

Stats:
USMLE Step 1: 250s
USMLE Step 2: 240s
COMLEX Level 1: mid 600s
COMLEX Level 2: mid 600s
COMLEX PE: P (first attempt)

LOR:
3 solid letters (2 non-ortho, 1 ortho)
1 amazing letter (ortho)
The reason I know this is because I was told about my letters on my interviews. I haven’t actually read them.

Research:
Publications:
7-9 case reports and full manuscript pubs (ortho and non-ortho)
Poster Presentations:
5-8 poster presentations (ortho and non-ortho)
Oral/Podium Presentations:
1 podium presentation

Interviews:
9 interviews total (6 DO, 3 MD)

Please feel free to DM me and I can answer any questions you may have!

*Click this link to see updated orthopaedic surgery audition reviews!*

which DO school did you attend? Congrats btw! Does the school's name matter? Are students from new DO schools at a disadvantage for competitive specialties?