Dartmouth Med Professor Outlines Med Student To-Do List

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You may be surprised to learn that medical students at many of the best schools in the country aren’t given grades during the first two years of their medical education. They either pass their coursework or they fail. And then, they take one high-stakes test that affects their medical future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scores on the test — the U.S. Medical Licensing Step 1 Exam (a.k.a. the Boards) — taken after two intense years of classroom education, will overwhelmingly determine where students do their residency training. And their professional futures.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a result, here is my students’ To Do list:
1. Do not attend class, unless attendance is specifically required.
2. Complain about the (modest) number of class hours requiring attendance.
3. Resist discretionary learning opportunities, no matter how interesting.

Analysis | A disturbing truth about medical school — and America’s future doctors

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At least from my perspective I need time to draw connections and to make sense of things. You throwing an entire system at me in month and then requiring attendance and demanding I be tested on the most random aspects of random crap isn't going to end with me doing well. It's going to end up with me feeling burnt out and not actually knowing anything. So yes, I'm going to wake up at noon, skip your class and read the textbook and make connections that will actually stick to me for longer than the class.
 
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As a result, here is my students’ To Do list:
...
3. Resist discretionary learning opportunities, no matter how interesting.
I always thought pathoma was interesting. More interesting than going to class, anyway.
 
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I connect with this so much. I hate going to class, I feel like I am wasting time. I would rather spend it prepping for the boards etc.
 
I'll try to refrain from making political commentary about the individual mentioned in the article who doesn't understand the difference between proficiency and growth - oops. :oops:

Medical education does need to change and teaching material in a different order (i.e. the change from traditional -> systems-based) does not constitute a curriculum overhaul, regardless of how med school PR departments spin it.

First, let's start with how material is presented. At my school, we have non-mandatory lectures that are recorded. The same lectures, with very minor changes, are taught year after year. We also have access to lectures from previous years. So, what's the benefit of going to lecture? The benefit of live lectures is supposed to be the ability to interact with your instructor, ask questions, etc. Our faculty are open to basic questions but if it's anything that will derail the class from the lecture, they usually defer questions to after class/during breaks. They don't mean to be rude but they often have way too many slides to cover in an hour anyways. Additionally, almost any question a medical student comes up with can be answered by searching the web. This effectively removes any benefit of live lectures and these lectures are just as effective as pre-recorded lectures. Thus, our live lecture attendance is absolutely abysmal. Students now have two options for learning via lectures - watching lectures given by professors from our school or watching lectures given by professors who have been vetted by thousands of medical students around the country (Kaplan, Pathoma, Goljan). The lectures given by vetted professors are often well-organized, explain concepts clearly, and provide 'high-yield' information that students can use to build their foundation of knowledge. Not only that, but companies who are in the business of providing high quality content have a vested interest (read: profit $$$) in using the latest technology and animations to make learning efficient for students. What motive do faculty members have to completely revamp their 30 year old slides? None. Class lectures end up being an obstacle to passing in-house exams which are obstacles to studying for Step 1. That takes care of lectures; what else do students use to study? Well, most people I know go through some version of the following process:

1) Watch lectures and take some sort of notes to organize the information.
2) Find a way to master the information (reading through notes, flash cards, drawing diagrams, making tables).
3) Do questions to assess their mastery and fill in gaps. Rinse and repeat for every block.

Schools really do not offer structured activities for any of these other steps in the learning process; all they offer are lectures which is just the first step. My school does do small group activities where we work through cases but they literally copy/paste a classic patient presentation out of FA and present it as a case :mad:. We also don't get any practice questions/cases from faculty, which would be helpful since board prep Qbanks often write questions that aren't anything like what you'd face when seeing real patients. The one thing I do find valuable at my school is the clinical skills component. Of course, this is best learned in-person with faculty supervision.

Next, I'll address the issue of P/F grading systems leading to increased importance of Step 1. Again, I'll pull from my own experience. It is not difficult to pass in-house exams at my school. It is very possible to scrape by every block and pass all in-house exams and then be screwed for Step 1. My school showed data to prove this. So why aren't our exams more difficult? Why is the bar for passing a block exam incongruent with the minimum amount of information the student should have mastered from that block? I imagine this a common situation at other schools. The bar for passing in-house exams should be set such that students will be on a reasonable trajectory to become competent physicians. The same holds true for board exams, the passing mark for Step 1, Step 2, etc should be set so that achieving a passing score reasonably ensures an appropriate level of competence. Taking Step 1 as an example, it is an exam to assess mastery of pre-clinical knowledge. The passing score for Step 1 should reflect the amount of knowledge any M2 should have obtained during the first two years, regardless of desired specialty. The way residencies handle Step 1 scores assumes that this isn't true....apparently a medical student wanting to match family medicine should have mastered x% of pre-clinical material while a student wanting to match derm should have mastered 3x% of pre-clinical material. This is absurd considering all medical students are taught a similar body of information during pre-clinical years, regardless of what specialty they want to go into. I get the supply/demand argument for specialties and the argument that specialty-specific board exams for certain specialties may be more difficult than for other specialties. These arguments only carry so much weight though - are higher Step 1 scores unequivocally correlated with a higher pass rate on specialty-specific board exams? If so, is this correlation so strong that a student must have a 250+ Step 1 to pass the derm boards? The difference in pre-clinical knowledge mastery between a 192 on Step 1 and a 250+ is astronomical. Does a student really need that much more mastery of pre-clinical knowledge to be on a trajectory to pass derm boards? Highly unlikely.

I have more concerns/questions than solutions/ideas. All I know is we need forward-thinking people to find better ways to teach the pre-clinical years. As I've said in other threads, my pre-clinical education could have been largely replaced with about $1k worth of resources produced by companies who have been vetted by thousands of medical students from around the world.
 
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More butt hurt professors whining about students not showing up for their garbage lectures. What else is new?
 
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I do agree with the article that the multiple choice method is very different than the problem solving you do in a clinical environment. Not sure how you would about testing this though? CS does an awful job of it
 
I do agree with the article that the multiple choice method is very different than the problem solving you do in a clinical environment. Not sure how you would about testing this though? CS does an awful job of it

The funny part about this whole whining is that we're being taught by PhDs who have never touched a pt in their entire careers. Yeah... Med students are adjusting to the new dynamics in order to be more efficient in their goals. Old school professors should deal with the new reality instead of whining about the old school ways and pushing students into a box that would actually be detrimental toward the students' progress.

There are more than one way to skin a cat.
 
There are more than one way to skin a cat.

Newest studies are showing students who skin >6 cats score over 250 on step 1...r^2=.99999
 
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Glad my dean had a different perspective. They always said students should consume class content and learn HOW THEY LEARN BEST.

If this means watching all non-mandatory lectures online then so be it.

Lots of professors make the mistake of thinking students are not interested in their lessons and have less of a desire to learn because they do not attend class. This is far from the truth.
 
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I'll try to refrain from making political commentary about the individual mentioned in the article who doesn't understand the difference between proficiency and growth - oops. :oops:

Medical education does need to change and teaching material in a different order (i.e. the change from traditional -> systems-based) does not constitute a curriculum overhaul, regardless of how med school PR departments spin it.

First, let's start with how material is presented. At my school, we have non-mandatory lectures that are recorded. The same lectures, with very minor changes, are taught year after year. We also have access to lectures from previous years. So, what's the benefit of going to lecture? The benefit of live lectures is supposed to be the ability to interact with your instructor, ask questions, etc. Our faculty are open to basic questions but if it's anything that will derail the class from the lecture, they usually defer questions to after class/during breaks. They don't mean to be rude but they often have way too many slides to cover in an hour anyways. Additionally, almost any question a medical student comes up with can be answered by searching the web. This effectively removes any benefit of live lectures and these lectures are just as effective as pre-recorded lectures. Thus, our live lecture attendance is absolutely abysmal. Students now have two options for learning via lectures - watching lectures given by professors from our school or watching lectures given by professors who have been vetted by thousands of medical students around the country (Kaplan, Pathoma, Goljan). The lectures given by vetted professors are often well-organized, explain concepts clearly, and provide 'high-yield' information that students can use to build their foundation of knowledge. Not only that, but companies who are in the business of providing high quality content have a vested interest (read: profit $$$) in using the latest technology and animations to make learning efficient for students. What motive do faculty members have to completely revamp their 30 year old slides? None. Class lectures end up being an obstacle to passing in-house exams which are obstacles to studying for Step 1. That takes care of lectures; what else do students use to study? Well, most people I know go through some version of the following process:

1) Watch lectures and take some sort of notes to organize the information.
2) Find a way to master the information (reading through notes, flash cards, drawing diagrams, making tables).
3) Do questions to assess their mastery and fill in gaps. Rinse and repeat for every block.

Schools really do not offer structured activities for any of these other steps in the learning process; all they offer are lectures which is just the first step. My school does do small group activities where we work through cases but they literally copy/paste a classic patient presentation out of FA and present it as a case :mad:. We also don't get any practice questions/cases from faculty, which would be helpful since board prep Qbanks often write questions that aren't anything like what you'd face when seeing real patients. The one thing I do find valuable at my school is the clinical skills component. Of course, this is best learned in-person with faculty supervision.

Next, I'll address the issue of P/F grading systems leading to increased importance of Step 1. Again, I'll pull from my own experience. It is not difficult to pass in-house exams at my school. It is very possible to scrape by every block and pass all in-house exams and then be screwed for Step 1. My school showed data to prove this. So why aren't our exams more difficult? Why is the bar for passing a block exam incongruent with the minimum amount of information the student should have mastered from that block? I imagine this a common situation at other schools. The bar for passing in-house exams should be set such that students will be on a reasonable trajectory to become competent physicians. The same holds true for board exams, the passing mark for Step 1, Step 2, etc should be set so that achieving a passing score reasonably ensures an appropriate level of competence. Taking Step 1 as an example, it is an exam to assess mastery of pre-clinical knowledge. The passing score for Step 1 should reflect the amount of knowledge any M2 should have obtained during the first two years, regardless of desired specialty. The way residencies handle Step 1 scores assumes that this isn't true....apparently a medical student wanting to match family medicine should have mastered x% of pre-clinical material while a student wanting to match derm should have mastered 3x% of pre-clinical material. This is absurd considering all medical students are taught a similar body of information during pre-clinical years, regardless of what specialty they want to go into. I get the supply/demand argument for specialties and the argument that specialty-specific board exams for certain specialties may be more difficult than for other specialties. These arguments only carry so much weight though - are higher Step 1 scores unequivocally correlated with a higher pass rate on specialty-specific board exams? If so, is this correlation so strong that a student must have a 250+ Step 1 to pass the derm boards? The difference in pre-clinical knowledge mastery between a 192 on Step 1 and a 250+ is astronomical. Does a student really need that much more mastery of pre-clinical knowledge to be on a trajectory to pass derm boards? Highly unlikely.

I have more concerns/questions than solutions/ideas. All I know is we need forward-thinking people to find better ways to teach the pre-clinical years. As I've said in other threads, my pre-clinical education could have been largely replaced with about $1k worth of resources produced by companies who have been vetted by thousands of medical students from around the world.

It all stems from competition. Competition stems from one path being lesser than another. The only way to allow students to be able to really choose what they want to go into is by buffing the less paid ones and nerfing the higher paid ones. If all specialties had the same income, imagine how the selection would be. Those who genuinely love surgery would choose it for their own job satisfaction instead of for money as the incentive. Obviously the debt is a factor, but this is the problem with the American way in general. Compete and have winners and losers. Meanwhile in socialized countries no one wins or loses if everyone makes 80k a year and goes to school for free. If you believe no one would do the more demanding specialties and we'd have a shortage of neurosurgeons, then it becomes a population problem. No one likes to talk about the population problem. No one. It's taboo.

So there really isn't a good solution at the end of the day. It's gonna be a constant balance of evils all around.
 
Actually I feel like a differential works a lot like a MC test. You just have to know the question (HPI) and all the possible answers (DX) then you order tests to narrow it down. This article is lame. Classes were stupid early when I went to med school and a waste of time.
 
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It all stems from competition. Competition stems from one path being lesser than another. The only way to allow students to be able to really choose what they want to go into is by buffing the less paid ones and nerfing the higher paid ones. If all specialties had the same income, imagine how the selection would be. Those who genuinely love surgery would choose it for their own job satisfaction instead of for money as the incentive. Obviously the debt is a factor, but this is the problem with the American way in general. Compete and have winners and losers. Meanwhile in socialized countries no one wins or loses if everyone makes 80k a year and goes to school for free. If you believe no one would do the more demanding specialties and we'd have a shortage of neurosurgeons, then it becomes a population problem. No one likes to talk about the population problem. No one. It's taboo.

So there really isn't a good solution at the end of the day. It's gonna be a constant balance of evils all around.

I'm not sure it's explicitly based on money. A FM in a good group will probably outpace a general surgeon or non GI/Onc/Cardio specialist. Likewise it doesn't explain why fields of allergy and immunology which makes from what I understand about the same as endo or rheum is significantly more competitive.

I think medical specialty selection is by in large intrinsically motivated. Most people are selecting fields based on what they like. And in truth your dooms day scenario seems to be detached from the reality that in this country a lot of the wrong people become doctors. We fill up our classes with too many academic types and not enough people people. That's why specialties are more competitive and why primary care isn't looked at kindly. Those people want 'prestige' and a field whose scope of practice is tiny so they can field like the master of their area of study.
 
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It all stems from competition. Competition stems from one path being lesser than another. The only way to allow students to be able to really choose what they want to go into is by buffing the less paid ones and nerfing the higher paid ones. If all specialties had the same income, imagine how the selection would be. Those who genuinely love surgery would choose it for their own job satisfaction instead of for money as the incentive. Obviously the debt is a factor, but this is the problem with the American way in general. Compete and have winners and losers. Meanwhile in socialized countries no one wins or loses if everyone makes 80k a year and goes to school for free. If you believe no one would do the more demanding specialties and we'd have a shortage of neurosurgeons, then it becomes a population problem. No one likes to talk about the population problem. No one. It's taboo.

So there really isn't a good solution at the end of the day. It's gonna be a constant balance of evils all around.

I'm not sure it's explicitly based on money. A FM in a good group will probably outpace a general surgeon or non GI/Onc/Cardio specialist. Likewise it doesn't explain why fields of allergy and immunology which makes from what I understand about the same as endo or rheum is significantly more competitive.

I think medical specialty selection is by in large intrinsically motivated. Most people are selecting fields based on what they like. And in truth your dooms day scenario seems to be detached from the reality that in this country a lot of the wrong people become doctors. We fill up our classes with too many academic types and not enough people people. That's why specialties are more competitive and why primary care isn't looked at kindly. Those people want 'prestige' and a field whose scope of practice is tiny so they can field like the master of their area of study.

There is no doubt that there will always be competition, varying benefits (salary, autonomy, lifestyle) among different specialties. My point is strictly with regards to the value placed on Step 1 for residencies and its impact on pre-clinical education. Is Step 1, a test of pre-clinical knowledge, strongly correlated with success on specialty-specific boards? If so, are the board exams for 'competitive specialties' so much harder than those for less competitive specialties that a Step 1 of 192 can get you into FM but most need a 240+ for derm? It is significantly more difficult to get a 240+ on Step 1 than it is to get a 192. My question is the following: is the difference in difficulty of derm boards vs. FM boards equivalent to the difference in difficulty between getting a 240 on Step 1 vs. a 192? If not, PDs need to use data to figure out the sweet spot where a Step 1 score of 'x' is correlated to whatever arbitrary pass rate a residency program is shooting for (e.g. 90% first time pass rate). I am willing to bet that this Step 1 score is lower than the average Step 1 score for matched applicants in competitive specialties. As an example, say a Step 1 score of 225+ is correlated with a pass rate of 90% for derm. If an applicant has a Step 1 of 225+, other parts of the application should be considered and Step 1 scores should no longer be a factor. This would shift the emphasis during pre-clinical years away from acing multiple choice questions and towards taking care of people.

The value of multiple choice exams only goes so far and current trends of Step 1 scores/match rates are unsustainable.
 
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You may be surprised to learn that medical students at many of the best schools in the country aren’t given grades during the first two years of their medical education. They either pass their coursework or they fail. And then, they take one high-stakes test that affects their medical future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scores on the test — the U.S. Medical Licensing Step 1 Exam (a.k.a. the Boards) — taken after two intense years of classroom education, will overwhelmingly determine where students do their residency training. And their professional futures.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a result, here is my students’ To Do list:
1. Do not attend class, unless attendance is specifically required.
2. Complain about the (modest) number of class hours requiring attendance.
3. Resist discretionary learning opportunities, no matter how interesting.

Analysis | A disturbing truth about medical school — and America’s future doctors

Notice that it is the professor's take on what the student's perceive as important, not what the Faculty think is important!

This explains, in part, why TBL is sweeping American medical education.

I'm a firm believer in that as adult learners, med students should pick what works best for them. This is why I get really steamed at those penal colonies of schools that require lecture attendance.

About 10-30% of my students still need to come to lecture and hear things in person, rather than watch on a video at 2x speed.
 
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There is no doubt that there will always be competition, varying benefits (salary, autonomy, lifestyle) among different specialties. My point is strictly with regards to the value placed on Step 1 for residencies and its impact on pre-clinical education. Is Step 1, a test of pre-clinical knowledge, strongly correlated with success on specialty-specific boards? If so, are the board exams for 'competitive specialties' so much harder than those for less competitive specialties that a Step 1 of 192 can get you into FM but most need a 240+ for derm? It is significantly more difficult to get a 240+ on Step 1 than it is to get a 192. My question is the following: is the difference in difficulty of derm boards vs. FM boards equivalent to the difference in difficulty between getting a 240 on Step 1 vs. a 192? If not, PDs need to use data to figure out the sweet spot where a Step 1 score of 'x' is correlated to whatever arbitrary pass rate a residency program is shooting for (e.g. 90% first time pass rate). I am willing to bet that this Step 1 score is lower than the average Step 1 score for matched applicants in competitive specialties. As an example, say a Step 1 score of 225+ is correlated with a pass rate of 90% for derm. If an applicant has a Step 1 of 225+, other parts of the application should be considered and Step 1 scores should no longer be a factor. This would shift the emphasis during pre-clinical years away from acing multiple choice questions and towards taking care of people.

The value of multiple choice exams only goes so far and current trends of Step 1 scores/match rates are unsustainable.

This is a well-intentioned but ultimately naive idea. There needs to be an objective means of stratifying people. I'm not saying Step 1 is perfect, but it's a necessary evil if you will. It's "the great equalizer." If we took that away, what would be left to objectively measure people against each other? What is the dermatology PD gonna do when she gets a stack of 10,000 applications because 225 is suddenly just as good as 265 ? Clerkship grades are too subjective and vary too much between schools. What is the PD gonna do, compare people based on how many interest groups they joined and how many garbage case reports they pumped out? lol Again, I'm not saying it's a perfect system. In fact it's flawed. Certain specialties are kept artificially competitive. For example, there really is no good reason why there are less than 500 derm spots in the country. But, things being the way they are, these mega competitive specialties need a way to filter their applicants.
 
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@AcademicNeurosurgery hit the nail on the head.

I always wondered why, considering there's such an emphasis on students becoming competent, that it is not an absolute requirement that courses are taught exclusively by instructors that are vetted/proven to perform at such a high standard. Imagine the amount of time that would be saved if long, partially inaccurate/awful lectures were removed altogether, and material was taught the proper way from the get go.

I've had some outstanding professors. However, I've had more awful professors. In my humble opinion, the ultimate obstacles to my education thus far have been 1) Lecture; 2) Small Group/PBL.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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Perhaps we should condense M1/M2 into a 12 month boot camp and get all the basic sciences over with as quickly as possible to clear up time for more dedicated step time and earlier clinical rotations?
 
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This is a well-intentioned but ultimately naive idea. There needs to be an objective means of stratifying people. I'm not saying Step 1 is perfect, but it's a necessary evil if you will. It's "the great equalizer." If we took that away, what would be left to objectively measure people against each other? What is the dermatology PD gonna do when she gets a stack of 10,000 applications because 225 is suddenly just as good as 265 ? Clerkship grades are too subjective and vary too much between schools. What is the PD gonna do, compare people based on how many interest groups they joined and how many garbage case reports they pumped out? lol Again, I'm not saying it's a perfect system. In fact it's flawed. Certain specialties are kept artificially competitive. For example, there really is no good reason why there are less than 500 derm spots in the country. But, things being the way they are, these mega competitive specialties need a way to filter their applicants.

So you're saying that even though Step 1 may not be correlated with residency success, still use it as a measure to cut down the applicant pile? This would exclude deserving applicants from consideration for no legitimate reason.

How about PDs finding things that ARE correlated with residency success? There has to be something that predicts residency success. Maybe it's shelf grades or Step 2 CK. If there's nothing, why not figure out what does predict residency success and then build a predictive assessment around this metric?
 
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For example, there really is no good reason why there are less than 500 derm spots in the country. But, things being the way they are, these mega competitive specialties need a way to filter their applicants.

Slightly off topic, but the reason there are only 500 spots has more to do with funding. From a public health standpoint we need more FPs, OBs, etc than more dermatologists... so that's where the money goes. This is coming from the derm PD at my school. So yes, there is a good reason.

Edit for relevance: Nobody cares about the plight of budding dermatologists, or other competitive/lifestyle oriented specialties for that matter...other than us here on SDN of course. We will never see a movement towards making it easier to become something lifestyle or pay oriented.
 
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Paul Farmer wasn't even in the country except for exams at Harvard Med

That detail from Med School 2.0 helped frame my approach to M1. My classmates consider me to be the "missing" student. *Incoming humblebrag* I'm near the top of my class. The more time you spend with the mean, the more similar you become to the mean.

More importantly, I found that doing med school remotely allowed me to seek out better research opportunities in another city.
 
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You may be surprised to learn that medical students at many of the best schools in the country aren’t given grades during the first two years of their medical education. They either pass their coursework or they fail. And then, they take one high-stakes test that affects their medical future.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scores on the test — the U.S. Medical Licensing Step 1 Exam (a.k.a. the Boards) — taken after two intense years of classroom education, will overwhelmingly determine where students do their residency training. And their professional futures.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a result, here is my students’ To Do list:
1. Do not attend class, unless attendance is specifically required.
2. Complain about the (modest) number of class hours requiring attendance.
3. Resist discretionary learning opportunities, no matter how interesting.

Analysis | A disturbing truth about medical school — and America’s future doctors
You sound hella salty that your students don't drool over your every word.

It's. not. about. you.

Students are trying to learn the material the best way they can, whether that includes you or not. You should be there to guide that learning, not demand that they spend hours of their time the way you see fit. They are adults, please treat them as such.
 
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More butt hurt professors whining about students not showing up for their garbage lectures. What else is new?

You sound hella salty that your students don't drool over your every word.

It's. not. about. you.

Students are trying to learn the material the best way they can, whether that includes you or not. You should be there to guide that learning, not demand that they spend hours of their time the way you see fit. They are adults, please treat them as such.

Am I missing something? What OP posted is an excerpt from the article, do we know that OP is the author of the article? Also, the thesis of the article is that there is a problem with the system, not with students. See excerpt below:

To be sure, the medical students I teach believe all these capabilities are genuinely important. But they are keenly aware that these are not what will bring them educational success.
 
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Am I missing something? What OP posted is an excerpt from the article, do we know that OP is the author of the article? Also, the thesis of the article is that there is a problem with the system, not with students. See excerpt below:

To be sure, the medical students I teach believe all these capabilities are genuinely important. But they are keenly aware that these are not what will bring them educational success.

Pretty sure most people did not read the article at all.
 
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When the hell was the last time that the author of that poorly thought out and poorly written article actually took a USMLE test?

If she really wants to complain about the medical education and grading system without providing better solutions, someone should really offer her an SDN handle. She'd fit in well here.
 
Paul Farmer wasn't even in the country except for exams at Harvard Med

Off topic, but I heard from someone who personally worked with Paul Farmer at PIH that he's sort of an arrogant D-bag in real life. I mean, he has every right to be, but still.
 
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Off topic, but I heard from someone who personally worked with Paul Farmer at PIH that he's sort of an arrogant D-bag in real life. I mean, he has every right to be, but still.
I've heard the same.
 
Students are trying to learn the material the best way they can, whether that includes you or not. You should be there to guide that learning, not demand that they spend hours of their time the way you see fit. They are adults, please treat them as such.

^^^This. If you want to have TBL's and lots of neat lectures, great! I'll come to the ones I think I may benefit from. But at the end of the day--and no-one can convince me otherwise. Until I have taken Step 1, I want the most efficient, highest yield material...and I want to learn it however the F*CK works best for me. I'm an adult, if I end up screwing myself over with this attitude, then so be it, it was my choice and I will accept the consequences. Stop forcing your learning styles on me.

The faculty at my school are so clueless it hurts. In-fact, today during one of our "AMAZING TBLs" that I was dragged onto campus for--the professor even admitted it was a complete train wreck, when it was all said and done I had completely wasted 2 hours of my day. Furthermore from my experience all TBL's manage to do is make some students think they have suddenly gained a PhD/MD combined degree the morning of and spout off completely wrong ideas with so much conviction you would think they authored the landmark paper on the subject itself.
 
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i read the entire article. I thought it was basically a rant about we should not have board exams and everyone should just match where they want and how multiple choice questions are dumb.

1. Not enough spots for everyone to match where they want. Maybe 30 years ago in her time that was the case but def not now. There has to be a way to differentiate among students thats as fair as possible, hence boards.

2. Board exams is what kept some very academically scary people in my class from becoming surgeons.
 
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This is so bizarre. Do most schools have a completely optional lecture system?

At my institution, classes are not mandatory. while some 'small group' sessions are sometimes mandatory. However, our doctoring class is 100% mandatory. Isn't that where you teach collaboration? Don't most schools have some sort of clinical setting/exposure before third year? Isn't that where you teach collaboration?

Oh wait, nevermind. You teach students how to collaborate by making them sit in front of someone far removed from being a medical student that's going to lecture 10 times above the students foundation while reading off powerpoint slides.

Damn. How could I have been so wrong... All these years I've believed that you learn to collaborate by working with your peers and learning from those with more experience than you in a more intimate teaching setting when all along the truth has been that medical students learn to collaborate while zonked in a lecture about some random doctors research while learning about the online shopping behavior of someone sitting in the row in front of theirs.

Sheet. Is it too late to redo my pre-clinical years?

Or you know, the Darty prof could use some sort of evidence to show that new doctors trained using this 'new style' are actually worse than those in their shoes 10 years ago. Nah, it's probably just easier to use rhetoric to frighten lay people about the new generation of doctors.

Here's a more newsworthy article. Enjoy!

A Union Station ad screen played PornHub videos Monday night
 
^^^This. If you want to have TBL's and lots of neat lectures, great! I'll come to the ones I think I may benefit from. But at the end of the day--and no-one can convince me otherwise. Until I have taken Step 1, I want the most efficient, highest yield material...and I want to learn it however the F*CK works best for me. I'm an adult, if I end up screwing myself over with this attitude, then so be it, it was my choice and I will accept the consequences. Stop forcing your learning styles on me.

The faculty at my school are so clueless it hurts. In-fact, today during one of our "AMAZING TBLs" that I was dragged onto campus for--the professor even admitted it was a complete train wreck, when it was all said and done I had completely wasted 2 hours of my day. Furthermore from my experience all TBL's manage to do is make some students think they have suddenly gained a PhD/MD combined degree the morning of and spout off completely wrong ideas with so much conviction you would think they authored the landmark paper on the subject itself.

We must go to the same school, our prof called the tbl today a fail too! Or maybe TBLs are mostly all fails and it was just coincidence...
 
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Maybe I'm off but what I got from the article was that since our metric for residency placement is a multiple choice test based majorly on the retention of minutia (often times not clinically relevant minutia) that is what students spend the majority of their effort on. We end up up with m3s who can answer mc basic science questions like a race horse, but are not very useful at all clinically. Combining this with Med student rotations where students are doing less and less, many are leaving medical school not prepared for residency. If the metric was something different, perhaps we would come out of medical school more ready.

It's obviously a difficult problem to solve. I think my first thought would jump to a test like cs, but having gone through that I can easily see what a stupid disaster that would be. My second thought jumps to open ended question and answer, such as a case being presented followed by "what is your differential, most important hpi points, etc etc" followed by some more info and more questions branching from said info. It could kind of be like morning case conferences except in short answer format. Logistically it would obviously be much more difficult, and I'm not sure if it would even be feasible at all. However I do think it would end up being a better metric

Edit: perhaps having combinations of short answer and multiple choice questions. I think the overall goal is to emphasize the ability to think through cases because that is really what medicine boils down to
 
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Behold the mismatch: We aim to prepare students for a career characterized by collaboration, complexity, nuance and uncertainty; yet, we evaluate them on their ability to select — autonomously and without research — among radio buttons representing a discrete range of right-or-wrong responses

And in her years of teaching med students she not only failed to implement a better alternative, she failed so completely that she couldn't give a single alternative and instead resorted to a bunch of vague goals masquerading as a solution. Value of contribution: zero
 
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Maybe I'm off but what I got from the article was that since our metric for residency placement is a multiple choice test based majorly on the retention of minutia (often times not clinically relevant minutia) that is what students spend the majority of their effort on. We end up up with m3s who can answer mc basic science questions like a race horse, but are not very useful at all clinically. Combining this with Med student rotations where students are doing less and less, many are leaving medical school not prepared for residency. If the metric was something different, perhaps we would come out of medical school more ready.

Give me some #s to back up the statement that today residents are of poorer quality than residents in the past. This rhetoric is nothing more than bs from angry old men and women wanting to rant against today generation and put their generation on a pedestal. It's old and quite frankly unoriginal.
 
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Give me some #s to back up the statement that today residents are of poorer quality than residents in the past. This rhetoric is nothing more than bs from angry old men and women wanting to rant against today generation and put their generation on a pedestal. It's old and quite frankly unoriginal.

I never compared current residents to past residents?
 
I never compared current residents to past residents?

This is what you wrote: "Combining this with Med student rotations where students are doing less and less, many are leaving medical school not prepared for residency."
 
This is what you wrote: "Combining this with Med student rotations where students are doing less and less, many are leaving medical school not prepared for residency."

Yes, there is no comparison to past residents preparedness there. I do mention medical students do less now a days (which I am taking as inherent common knowledge), but as to if this makes residents more or less effective compared to past residents I don't know. All I'm looking at is my own medical school experience which I think could be better in the ways I outlined
 
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