Dartmouth vs. Boston vs. Colorado

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

Hey guys I really need your input as I'm now facing down a really difficult decision. I'm super fortunate to have multiple As to amazing schools but now I have no idea which one I should go with. I'm also super fortunate in that cost of tuition doesn't matter at all, so that doesn't have any impact on my decision between the schools. My biggest hope is to just go to a school that will set me up for success, I'm not sure I'll want to match into anything competitive, but I want to pick the school that will best keep my options open.

Dartmouth
Pros
- Great name recognition and prestige (Ivy) I'm assuming this would help with matching when looking at PD rankings
- Love the outdoor focused location. I'm a hiker, skier, and mountain biker, this location honestly seems amazing from a hobbies standpoint
- True P/F with NO internal rankings
- Preclinical Curriculum honestly seems like the best of the bunch, very chill with not much required in person work (more time for studying)
- Smaller cohort which is a big plus

Cons
- I've never lived somewhere this rural. I love the outdoors but have never been to Hanover so I don't know if it has much of a social scene
- Clinical years seem to include a lot of away rotations which could be a big negative. I have no idea how bad away rotations are so if anyone has input it'd be greatly appreciated
- Technically is lower ranked than the others on USNWR so idk how that will affect residency should I choose a competitive field. The cheating scandal definitely has me a little worried, though I don't think I'm weighing it super heavily

Boston
Pros
- Also has name recognition, and has (I think) the best recent match lists of these schools. Idk why that is but they have lots of competitive placements
- Highest avg. matriculant stats (personally I would never consider this important, but with step 1 P/F I've heard it's possible that PDs might use stats of your school as a proxy for your competitiveness)
- TONS of good research opportunities in Boston
- Urban location has lots of social opportunities

Cons
- I love outdoor activities and feel like I'd be cutoff in Boston (I live in a different megacity right now and don't like it that much). It may not matter though since I won't have much free time but I'm not sure
- Brand new curriculum this year so my cohort would be the guinea pigs. Not to stoked on this tbh
- More in person required attendance (Less time to study) this is honestly big with me as flexibility with a my schedule is super nice

Colorado
Pros
- I'm from Denver so I have lots of friends and family there (support structures)
- I honestly like their overall (preclinical and clinical) curriculum the best. Clerkships are longitudinal which I think is super cool
- Also has lots of good research opportunities, as well as brand new very nice facilities
- Technically higher ranked, though I'm not sure how this works since they have lower avg stats than the other two
- I may want to match into residency in CO if thats possible. I've heard it wouldn't be hard from the other two schools since they're well known, but it still could only help to be going to school in the state

Cons
- I've lived in CO most of my life, and part of me would like to branch out at least for med school
- Less name recognition than the other two, I know its highly ranked but with step 1 P/F I'm worried PDs may assume since its my state school I didn't have to be a competitive applicant. Also has the lowest Step 1 and 2 scores of the three
- CU unfortunately has a pretty bad rep in CO for how they've treated IS residents, as well as their clear motivations to climb the rankings at all costs. They've made it very clear that they would like to be considered a very top school and they have no problem snubbing and crossing people to get there. It worries me more than the other two schools because they seem a lot more laid back and less image/rankings obsessed

So yeah thats basically it, any help would be super appreciated. Thank you so much guys.

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[chilly_md]

I’d do Colorado since you’d be so close to friends and family, while the other two are much farther away. The cheating scandal and the way they went about it is a big ding against it since it’s already so remote and honestly isn’t like the other Ivy League med schools.

Also Colorado will not close doors for residency, it’s a solid school with resources. If you can, just check with current students to see that they don’t have any significant problems.

Edit: I went back to the old thread on here about Dartmouth and this was reported in a linked article:

“the medical school released a new social media policy that warned students against disparaging members of the medical school, adding that anonymous posters could be identified.”

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

These schools are in a similar realm of prestige (Dartmouth med school is not Dartmouth undergrad - your friends may find it impressive if you go there for med school but in medicine it’s name value is nowhere near how it’s undergrad is perceived), so I wouldn’t let that be what makes your decision for any of these places.

My general advice is if you know where you want to match, go to that place for med school as it gives you a big advantage. Only caveat is if you have lived somewhere your whole life (like the same city) I think the life experience of getting out is probably more important - but sounds like you have lived elsewhere. Colorado is getting to be a competative place to be for residency, would probably stick around to maximize the chances that you can be there if that’s what you want.

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

My general advice is if you know where you want to match, go to that place for med school as it gives you a big advantage. Only caveat is if you have lived somewhere your whole life (like the same city) I think the life experience of getting out is probably more important - but sounds like you have lived elsewhere. Colorado is getting to be a competative place to be for residency, would probably stick around to maximize the chances that you can be there if that’s what you want.

Wow I didn't know that Colorado was becoming so much more competitive for residency. I guess I do want to get out of Colorado at SOME point since I feel there is the opportunity for a lot of personal growth in that. I guess because Dartmouth and Boston have significantly and consistently better match lists, they were the better choices but I guess maybe not. I think maybe those are just a product of the higher step scores from those schools but idk.

 

[chilly_md]

Wow I didn't know that Colorado was becoming so much more competitive for residency. I guess I do want to get out of Colorado at SOME point since I feel there is the opportunity for a lot of personal growth in that. I guess because Dartmouth and Boston have significantly and consistently better match lists, they were the better choices but I guess maybe not. I think maybe those are just a product of the higher step scores from those schools but idk.

It is also kind of hard to read match lists as a lot of it is personal interest (ie students at very competitive schools gravitate towards competing for certain specialities). The name of the residency program does not necessarily correlate to good either. For a lot of specialities, a spot at an Ivy League name might not actually be a top training spot for one reason or another and someplace you haven’t heard of before is. Only people in that field would know the specifics generally.

 

[whenthelightsgo_OUT]

Sounds like you want Dartmouth to me.

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

Sounds like you want Dartmouth to me.

I'm guess I'm really stuck between Dartmouth and Colorado atm and I don't know what to do On one hand Colorado would be "easier" for me since I know Denver well, and would be close to my friends family, but I feel like its a cop out to go to my state school when I have other great options (and might lose out on living in a new area). Boston is ALSO an amazing school too so idk. I guess it depends on which will set me up best for residency.

Also I have no idea how bad away rotations really are, and idk if true Pass/fail is worth significantly more than Honors/pass/fail.

 

[chilly_md]

It’s not a cop out to attend your state school. US News isn’t something to base a decision off of and is meant to cause young students a lot of stress with choosing where to apply and attend. Even if you want to, Colorado is tied for 27th this year. Boston is 33, and Dartmouth 45.

I’d consider Boston since it’s a big metro area and a good school, but you said you haven’t liked that kind of environment. Personally, I don’t either. NYC, Chicago, Boston are too much to me, but I would enjoy something like Denver.

Dartmouth is in the middle of nowhere. If there’s away rotations, it probably is even more of a pain than usual while either trying to travel or move. The airport accessibility is tough. You have a chance in residency to live somewhere else too if you didn’t during undergrad. And that’s definitely something you’d have leeway in what kinds of cities outside Colorado you’d like to be in.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Colorado or BU. Geisel doesn’t have the prestige of the college, especially in “medical” circles.

 

[GoldenDoodle101]

Go somewhere where you'll be happy for yourself over the next four years, but for your entire life (i.e. future growth). Some people would put "close to home" as a positive; but others do want to branch out and expand their horizons. Generally, people like seeing candidates move around rather than doing well in one place because it shows strength and the ability to overcome adversity.

 

[deleted1119327]

I've talked with several residents and attending about Giesel and definitely not considered prestigious in medical circle.

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

I've talked with several residents and attending about Giesel and definitely not considered prestigious in medical circle.

Wow I had no idea..I had heard of PDs really liking Geisel. Would you consider CU or Boston to be more prestigious?

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

Go somewhere where you'll be happy for yourself over the next four years, but for your entire life (i.e. future growth). Some people would put "close to home" as a positive; but others do want to branch out and expand their horizons. Generally, people like seeing candidates move around rather than doing well in one place because it shows strength and the ability to overcome adversity.

That's kind of my thoughts.. I'd like to branch out but I do love Colorado. Is it really viewed negatively to stay in one place? I've done my undergrad in CO also since it was wayyyy cheaper to stay I hope that wouldn't look bad to be doing so much here. I would 100% plan on doing residency somewhere else do you think that would help?

 

[deleted1119327]

Wow I had no idea..I had heard of PDs really liking Geisel. Would you consider CU or Boston to be more prestigious?

Colorado for sure. It is a solid T30 school. Not sure about Boston. Probably a bit popular amongst applicants because of it's location.

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

Colorado or BU. Geisel doesn’t have the prestige of the college, especially in “medical” circles.

Wow I guess since PD ranks put Geisel just above Boston they'd be about the same :/ is Boston really considered that much more prestigious? Boston and Geisel's match lists for the last 8 years both look really good and CU is ranked the highest of the three but definitely has the worst match lists so idk what to think about prestige and how much it matters

 

[deleted1119327]

Wow I guess since PD ranks put Geisel just above Boston they'd be about the same :/ is Boston really considered that much more prestigious? Boston and Geisel's match lists for the last 8 years both look really good and CU is ranked the highest of the three but definitely has the worst match lists so idk what to think about prestige and how much it matters

What if students from Colorado want3d match to those specialties? You are only looking at the match list and thinking everyone wants to match derm and neurosurgery. Match list is also dependent on the applicants' desire as well not just whether school can help you match to a specialty you want.

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

What if students from Colorado want3d match to those specialties? You are only looking at the match list and thinking everyone wants to match derm and neurosurgery. Match list is also dependent on the applicants' desire as well not just whether school can help you match to a specialty you want.

Oh no I totally understand that match lists only tell a partial story.. I think its also more of a reflection of Colorado's significantly lower historical step 1 scores (which is also something I guess I was kinda concerned about but idk now that step 1 is P/F) I know match lists aren't the best measurement are there other better things I should be looking at that I haven't listed?

 

[GoldenDoodle101]

That's kind of my thoughts.. I'd like to branch out but I do love Colorado. Is it really viewed negatively to stay in one place? I've done my undergrad in CO also since it was wayyyy cheaper to stay I hope that wouldn't look bad to be doing so much here. I would 100% plan on doing residency somewhere else do you think that would help?

As my mentors have told me, "it is easy to stay in one place and do well. It is hard to move around and find success." One of whom is a residency director. He likes people who can demonstrate they can do well in many places rather than one because you have to rebuild connections, support systems, etc. in new places. Obviously, it is more comfortable to stay in the same area. Furthermore, I believe Boston has more opportunities, especially if you want to go for a competitive residency over a primary care program.

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

As my mentors have told me, "it is easy to stay in one place and do well. It is hard to move around and find success." One of whom is a residency director. He likes people who can demonstrate they can do well in many places rather than one because you have to rebuild connections, support systems, etc. in new places. Obviously, it is more comfortable to stay in the same area. Furthermore, I believe Boston has more opportunities, especially if you want to go for a competitive residency over a primary care program.

Wow I had heard something like that about PhDs but never relating to med school and residency before thank you for the heads up! Do you think it heavily weighs into program directors assessments?

As far as specialties I actually just shadowed a PM&R doctor last week and omg I think I'm in LOVE!!!! Honestly it might be the specialty for me and seems like a perfect fit!! I know its not competitive too which is a plus so I guess I'll need to factor that into my decision also. I know there is a good chance I'll change my mind, but I've shadowed lots of specialties and none have even come close to this honestly I felt 100% at home like it was meant for me!

 

[GoldenDoodle101]

Wow I had heard something like that about PhDs but never relating to med school and residency before thank you for the heads up! Do you think it heavily weighs into program directors assessments?

As far as specialties I actually just shadowed a PM&R doctor last week and omg I think I'm in LOVE!!!! Honestly it might be the specialty for me and seems like a perfect fit!! I know its not competitive too which is a plus so I guess I'll need to factor that into my decision also. I know there is a good chance I'll change my mind, but I've shadowed lots of specialties and none have even come close to this honestly I felt 100% at home like it was meant for me!

I personally enjoy Colorado because of the location (I'm a city gal) and change of pace, but I'm also going for PCP. Don't make your decision on med school based on what a forum is advising. This is something you have to decide. In the end, you'll probably find yourself happy with whatever decision you make. I would have to ask my mentor if he ever interviewed candidates who didn't move around.

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

It’s not a cop out to attend your state school. US News isn’t something to base a decision off of and is meant to cause young students a lot of stress with choosing where to apply and attend. Even if you want to, Colorado is tied for 27th this year. Boston is 33, and Dartmouth 45.

I’d consider Boston since it’s a big metro area and a good school, but you said you haven’t liked that kind of environment. Personally, I don’t either. NYC, Chicago, Boston are too much to me, but I would enjoy something like Denver.

Dartmouth is in the middle of nowhere. If there’s away rotations, it probably is even more of a pain than usual while either trying to travel or move. The airport accessibility is tough. You have a chance in residency to live somewhere else too if you didn’t during undergrad. And that’s definitely something you’d have leeway in what kinds of cities outside Colorado you’d like to be in.

Thank you so much for the insight!! Do students normally get a good amount of leeway in where they choose to go to residency? I was under the impression that residency is still very competitive and that you will almost always need to go to great academic programs if possible (which would limit locations greatly). I honestly know nothing about this so any help is so appreciated!!

 

[chilly_md]

Thank you so much for the insight!! Do students normally get a good amount of leeway in where they choose to go to residency? I was under the impression that residency is still very competitive and that you will almost always need to go to great academic programs if possible (which would limit locations greatly). I honestly know nothing about this so any help is so appreciated!!

Residency is its own application process, but you can choose from locations all across the country. Do well on Step 2, get involved with some research and get some good LORs is what seems to be the general advice. Community programs (not academic medicine) are also in less urban areas and you get the benefit of having more training depending on your speciality. Like if you do FM, you probably would do many more procedures and Obgyn work there since there’s far fewer residents and departments around.

If you have your eyes on any particular place earlier on or want to diversify your training, you can always do an away rotation for the speciality that interests you. At least that’s what I’ve heard from other students, and it’s definitely not 100% necessary, especially coming from any solid MD school.

Just as a counter-example to people who say you should move around (which you can if Boston appeals to you), Dell medical school in Texas takes 90%+ in-state students. I assume most of those attended undergrad in Texas as well. Despite being a newer med school, almost 70% of their students matched outside of the state:

Class of 2021 Matched to Residencies Across the U.S. | Dell Medical School

Congrats to incoming residents and Dell Med’s Class of 2021, 100% of whom matched to residency programs across Texas and the U.S.

dellmed.utexas.edu

I would have assumed it’d be worse for Texas residents because I heard some AMCAS schools don’t interview them knowing they’ll lose them in the end to an in-state option. Clearly that’s not happening for residency placement, and that’s with these students having spent an extra 4 years in their home areas.

 

[CU_MS1]

I am a current MS1 at CU and am happy to answer questions. Unfortunately I can't answer too much as I haven't been there for too long - however since we are the first class with the new curriculum I am happy to answer questions that previous classes may not know!

 

[AClassicRisetotheOccasion]

I have heard good things about all three places. I would do BU for the city, Colorado for the family, Dartmouth for the prestige.

 

[ColoradoMedApplicant]

I am a current MS1 at CU and am happy to answer questions. Unfortunately I can't answer too much as I haven't been there for too long - however since we are the first class with the new curriculum I am happy to answer questions that previous classes may not know!

That would be AMAZING thank you I'll DM shortly!