debt after med school

[Sharky]

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Does anyone know the average debt for students after med school and how long does it take to pay it off?

 

[chrys42]

I'll venture a guess that it's about $100,000. Oh, well, actually, I just did a quick search, and I'll paste what info I found: Nationally, the average total debt of all 2002 medical school graduates was $103,855. Average debt among 2002 medical school graduates at public schools was $91,389 and $123,780 at private medical schools.

In other words, start saving up...

 

[booradley]

I think for most student loans, you have 10 years from the time you complete residency to pay them off. There are some good student loan calculators online if you do a search. I think when I checked for $150,000 in loans it was between $1400-$1900 per month for 10 years, depending on the interest rate.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

Institutional loans (from med schools) will usually give you until you get out of residency. Almost all other loans (including from your undergraduate institution) begin payback when you get out of MED SCHOOL. (Yep, it sucks.)

Some people can get 20 year loans. Some people can establish economic hardship, meaning that they can defer payments until after residency, although interest continues to accumulate and sometimes capitalizes (becomes part of the principle, which you pay interest on).

The Financial Aid office at your prospective med school can help you wade through the options.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by chrys42
I'll venture a guess that it's about $100,000. Oh, well, actually, I just did a quick search, and I'll paste what info I found: Nationally, the average total debt of all 2002 medical school graduates was $103,855. Average debt among 2002 medical school graduates at public schools was $91,389 and $123,780 at private medical schools.

In other words, start saving up...

Those #s must not contain undergrad debt. If they do, I spend way too much money.

Public undergrad + public med school = estimated end debt of $130,000 to $140,000

That includes a full scholarship to undergrad. I also held a job as an undergraduate. No parental aid, though.

If I'm making $39K - $42K a year as a resident, I'm sure as hell going to try to apply AT LEAST 1/3 of that toward my education debts. With a 6 yr residency, that's ~$81K applied. I don't know why anyone would want to wait til after residency to begin paying their debt off.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Originally posted by THE instiGATOR
Those #s must not contain undergrad debt. If they do, I spend way too much money.

Public undergrad + public med school = estimated end debt of $130,000 to $140,000

That includes a full scholarship to undergrad. I also held a job as an undergraduate. No parental aid, though.

If I'm making $39K - $42K a year as a resident, I'm sure as hell going to try to apply AT LEAST 1/3 of that toward my education debts. With a 6 yr residency, that's ~$81K applied. I don't know why anyone would want to wait til after residency to begin paying their debt off.

Have you ever lived off of $40,000? If you live frugally you might be able make some payments on your loans. But your estimates do not take into account taxes. Unless you live with your parents or have a spouse that can support you, applying 1/3 of $40,000 is unrealistic.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

Amen to that, JBJ. You would be lucky to make payments of a few hundred a month on $40k. It doesn't go very far.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by JBJ
Have you ever lived off of $40,000? If you live frugually you might be able make some payments on your loans. But your estimates do not take into account taxes. Unless you live with your parents or have a spouse that can support you, applying 1/3 of $40,000 is unrealistic.

I'm a student. Of course I've lived off less than $40,000!

$40,000 x 0.666 = $26,667

When you subtract taxes, you should be left with more than $18K (if not, somewhere close). I think I can live off of $18K, especially considering I will have very few opportunities to spend the cash as a resident. I can understand the extra difficulties that arise if one has kids and a spouse, but it shouldn't be too difficult to pay $10,000 a year toward the debt. You'd be able to knock $60,000 off the top by the time you get a real paycheck.

Nobody said paying the debts off would be fun.

 

[tBw]

I have to agree with jbj and vw - even here in st louis, where livin' is cheap, you would be hard pressed to do that (save $10k/year on a residents salary) as a working professional, who requires appropriate attire, a running car, health insurance etc. without any help from parents or vacation jobs. Also having little time doesn't always mean spending less - if you end up eating out because you don't have the time and energy to cook, or using a laundry service for similar reasons, or you buy a more reliable and thus expensive car, and you stop having roommates etc.... somehow it adds up.

 

[VienneseWaltz]

You will have to do your residency in a low-rent city, get a roommate, hope that your car lasts until the end, find cheap car/renter's insurance, and hope that you don't need savings for anything.

I admire your committment to getting out of debt early, but you might be surprised at how living as an adult is different from living as a student. I wish you the best, though--if you can do it, you will be in a much better position when you start practicing.

 

[DarkChild]

Originally posted by THE instiGATOR
I'm a student. Of course I've lived off less than $40,000!

$40,000 x 0.666 = $26,667

When you subtract taxes, you should be left with more than $18K (if not, somewhere close). I think I can live off of $18K, especially considering I will have very few opportunities to spend the cash as a resident. I can understand the extra difficulties that arise if one has kids and a spouse, but it shouldn't be too difficult to pay $10,000 a year toward the debt. You'd be able to knock $60,000 off the top by the time you get a real paycheck.

Nobody said paying the debts off would be fun.

lol - your math is cracking me up... taxes come out BEFORE anything else. a very good approximation for your total tax witholdings (i.e. the money that comes right out of your paycheck that you dont even see) is 1/3. so take $40KX0.66 and thats your $26.7K net per year. Per month thats $2,200. assuming you repay 1/3 of what you make - that means you pay $700 a month and are left with 1,500 a month.
where i'm at (NYC) CHEAP rent is $1K. lets say thats overkill and say you pay $750 in rent, that leaves you with $750 a month or $187.5 a week.
(haha that reminds me - unemployment is $405 a week.)
thats a tough ask - and thats why many people try to stave off their loan repayments until the end of residency.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by VienneseWaltz
You will have to do your residency in a low-rent city, get a roommate, hope that your car lasts until the end, find cheap car/renter's insurance, and hope that you don't need savings for anything.

I admire your committment to getting out of debt early, but you might be surprised at how living as an adult is different from living as a student. I wish you the best, though--if you can do it, you will be in a much better position when you start practicing.

I know many students who live as adults, myself included.

My reliable car, which I've already paid off, only has 50K miles on it. Hopefully it'll last another, yes...another, 7 years. If it lasts 9, I'll be finished with my residency.

It's been 4 years since I last had/needed a roommate.

Finally, you can spread money really thin here in the south (generalization? yes). Gotta love it! I currently pay less than $390 for 700+ square feet.

BTW... What the hell is savings?!? 😉

I'm gonna do it! Don't bring me down!

I've lived differently than others. Seeing others make do with MUCH less because they had to has allowed me to realize what can be done with very little money. A single income of $40,000 does not seem like a little to me, considering my parents survive on ~$60,000 combined (raising a kid too).

TMI, right? 🙂

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by DarkChild
lol - your math is cracking me up... taxes come out BEFORE anything else. a very good approximation for your total tax witholdings (i.e. the money that comes right out of your paycheck that you dont even see) is 1/3. so take $40KX0.66 and thats your $26.7K net per year. Per month thats $2,200. assuming you repay 1/3 of what you make - that means you pay $700 a month and are left with 1,500 a month.
where i'm at (NYC) CHEAP rent is $1K. lets say thats overkill and say you pay $750 in rent, that leaves you with $750 a month or $187.5 a week.
(haha that reminds me - unemployment is $405 a week.)
thats a tough ask - and thats why many people try to stave off their loan repayments until the end of residency.

What part of "when you take out taxes" implies that I mean out of the $27K? Maybe you were just reading that into it. 20% of $40K is $8000. I took $8667 out. $8667 of $26,667 is 33%. I don't know of a single person earning ~$25K that is expected to pay 33% of their income in taxes. I may be wrong (and grossly wrong at that), but I think ~22% off of $40K sounds about right. Also, my state doesn't have a state income tax.

Everyone's circumstance is different. The thrust of what I'm trying to convey is that one should try like hell to pay off as much as they can as a resident. No need to let it grow.

 

[tBw]

If you can do it, then more power to you! The reason 33% is a reasonable estimate is because on top of regular taxes there is also medicaid and social security taxes that come out of your check, like it or not. If you don't have state taxes to pay then maybe a little less - but still 29-30% as the bulk of taxes are paid federally not at the state level.

I also hope to pay off some of the loan amount during residency - but I do think hoping to pay $10k/year is ....ambitious 😉 but I certainly support and admire anyone that can do it.

 

[pocwana]

THE instiGATOR, you're not alone in your plans.
as a resident, why not share an apt with someone? be a little tight with the money for a few years. start to pay off your debts so the interest doesn't accrue like mad! you've been living life stingily as student and will continue to do so during med school, just tack on a couple more years and it'll be worth it when you're done paying your loans off a couple of years sooner. then relax and enjoy!

 

[DarkChild]

To Whom It May Concern:
I STRONGLY resent the movement of this thread to the financial aid forum:
1) THE WORDS FINANCIAL AID ONLY APPEAR ONCE IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD
2) THE POINT OF THIS THREAD IS TO START A DIALOGUE ON DEBT REPAYMENT WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FINANCIAL AID
3) THE NAIVETE DISPLAYED IN MOVING THIS THREAD IS JUST ANOTHER EXPRESSION OF THE ENDEMIC IGNORANCE OF PRE-MEDS TO THE ISSUE OF ACTUAL PAYING FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL
it is a significant issue and one which is all too often marginalized.
sorry for ranting - but i really believe that you have done a strong disservice to the pre-med community by moving this thread.
i mean does anyone even come in to this forum? and when they do isnt it usually more about finacial aid and dates and requirements and yadiyah.
MOVE IT BACK!!!

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by DarkChild
To Whom It May Concern:
I STRONGLY resent the movement of this thread to the financial aid forum:
1) THE WORDS FINANCIAL AID ONLY APPEAR ONCE IN THIS ENTIRE THREAD
2) THE POINT OF THIS THREAD IS TO START A DIALOGUE ON DEBT REPAYMENT WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FINANCIAL AID
3) THE NAIVETE DISPLAYED IN MOVING THIS THREAD IS JUST ANOTHER EXPRESSION OF THE ENDEMIC IGNORANCE OF PRE-MEDS TO THE ISSUE OF ACTUAL PAYING FOR MEDICAL SCHOOL
it is a significant issue and one which is all too often marginalized.
sorry for ranting - but i really believe that you have done a strong disservice to the pre-med community by moving this thread.
i mean does anyone even come in to this forum? and when they do isnt it usually more about finacial aid and dates and requirements and yadiyah.
MOVE IT BACK!!!

Silly silly DarkChild... Don't you know that premeds shouldn't bother themselves with future debt concerns? Instead, they should only worry about whether they need to repeat the MCAT after having earned a 31 or whether Harvard or JHU will provide them the best future.

If this thread were moved back, they might learn something about finance (gasp!) or even READING COMPREHENSION. 😉

😎

 

[Zoobaby]

I could never live on $18k spending money. I have a girlfriend.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

Originally posted by THE instiGATOR
What part of "when you take out taxes" implies that I mean out of the $27K? Maybe you were just reading that into it. 20% of $40K is $8000. I took $8667 out. $8667 of $26,667 is 33%. I don't know of a single person earning ~$25K that is expected to pay 33% of their income in taxes. I may be wrong (and grossly wrong at that), but I think ~22% off of $40K sounds about right. Also, my state doesn't have a state income tax.

Everyone's circumstance is different. The thrust of what I'm trying to convey is that one should try like hell to pay off as much as they can as a resident. No need to let it grow.

I certainly admire the fact that you are looking at debt management before going to medical school. It irritates me when premeds on this forum pay no attention to their furture debt loads. It is this kind of attitude that encourages med schools to raise tuition 5-10% each year. I also get tired of residents complaining about their crippling debt. They chose the most expensive school and should have researched the consequences. The residents I know at Wash U had other, cheaper choices.

Regarding the taxes thing. I just looked at my tax returns for 2001. I earned around 36,000 and paid about $8000 in taxes, including federal, state, local, social security, and medicare. Oh where oh where did my money go. . .

Regarding your plan. . . I think that it is good in theory. Just make sure that you plan some flexibility in it. You may think that you want to live like an 18 year old student now, but you may change your mind in the future. You might get married. You might have a kid. You might want to buy a house. Plan on being flexible.

 

[THE instiGATOR]

Originally posted by JBJ
I certainly admire the fact that you are looking at debt management before going to medical school.

...

You may think that you want to live like an 18 year old student now, but you may change your mind in the future.

I'm 23 and am already in medical school. I just brouse through the premed forum every so often cause it is fun to see others where I was a year ago. Hell! I might even be able to help. 😉

I agree that it is important for premeds to think about these things. That's why I went to a public undergrad and a public med school.

 

[Jim Picotte]

Debt is a huge issue and should certainly be taken into consideration. I have $181,385.50 in debt at least as of last month. This is from both undergrad and med school and about $15,000 is interest I was unable to pay while in medical school. I'll only be paying the unsubsidized interest on my loans until I'm able to do some moonlighting where I'll start paying some of the priciple. I'd like it to be around $150,000 when I'm done with residency which will be a bit more manageable. I went to a state school, but unless you have some other ways of financial support there's just no way of not going into some severe debt as a medical student. This will affect you greatly. I was never interested in family practice or peds, but having this debt sure made my current specialty an easier choice (I do love it as well). With the current budget crisis facing most states, tuition will only rise. Higher education is a less painful area to cut rather than healthcare or other government programs. I know in Michigan, my school (just the CHM part) is loosing about 2 million from their budget just for 2002-2003 budget and probably 3-5 times that for the 2003-2004 budget as our state deals with a huge deficit. I'm sure tuition will be going up. I saw blurbs or predicitions in the newspaper of 15-30% hikes in tuition next year. It's a big deal.

Also remember that in the last few years that salaries of most physicians have been dropping, not going up. While you may not be worried about the money now and most likely you'll have no problems paying back your debt (even if it takes you say 20 years instead of 10), it certainly is a big issue and should be talked about much more than it is.

 

[NAVYHPSPREC]

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