Declaring minor 4th degree misdemeanors on licensing applications?

[cyanide12345678]

Got screwed by a police officer into a ticket for a rail road violation.

Didn't want to bother with a second court date and did a no contest plea. Explained to the judge that the gate was malfunctioning and the circumstances. He fined me $25 basically.

I didn't understand it at the time, but even this minor offense is counting as a 4th degree misdemeanor in Ohio which is going on record.

Am i reporting something where i literally paid a $25 fine on all my future medical license applications???

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[BoardingDoc]

Got screwed by a police officer into a ticket for a rail road violation.

Didn't want to bother with a second court date and did a no contest plea. Explained to the judge that the gate was malfunctioning and the circumstances. He fined me $25 basically.

I didn't understand it at the time, but even this minor offense is counting as a 4th degree misdemeanor in Ohio which is going on record.

Am i reporting something where i literally paid a $25 fine on all my future medical license applications???

I don't know about Ohio, but my medical license application specifically asks about convictions or charges other than minor traffic related issues. This would appear to be a minor traffic related issue.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I don't know about Ohio, but my medical license application specifically asks about convictions or charges other than minor traffic related issues. This would appear to be a minor traffic related issue.

Rail road gate violation still counts as traffic violation. It's just a terrible time for this since I'm applying for my Texas and Indiana license in a few months

 

[BoardingDoc]

Rail road gate violation still counts as traffic violation. It's just a terrible time for this since I'm applying for my Texas and Indiana license in a few months

Right, so in my state, the board doesn't ask you to report stuff like that. Not sure if it's different in IN or TX.

 

[Apollyon]

I didn't understand it at the time, but even this minor offense is counting as a 4th degree misdemeanor in Ohio which is going on record.

Rail road gate violation still counts as traffic violation.

You're conflating terms. A "violation" and a "misdemeanor" are not the same. Best advice? Talk to a lawyer. On one hand, minor traffic. On the other, 4th degree misdemeanor. I mean, if you list it, it's just "rail gate violation". It's not like "fraud" or "marijuana" or "public urination".

The best mistake is the one you don't make. I have no experience, but, I've heard TX doesn't screw around.

 

[Groove]

You can likely get this expunged for a nominal fee and a 15 minute meeting with any local lawyer. I had something like that after getting nailed in a speed trap in VA while driving for a locums gig. I forget how much over I was but it counted as a reckless driving charge and is a class 1 misdemeanor in that state. I got it expunged easily. In general though, as others have said...you generally don't have to report traffic violations.

 

[cyanide12345678]

You can likely get this expunged for a nominal fee and a 15 minute meeting with any local lawyer. I had something like that after getting nailed in a speed trap in VA while driving for a locums gig. I forget how much over I was but it counted as a reckless driving charge and is a class 1 misdemeanor in that state. I got it expunged easily. In general though, as others have said...you generally don't have to report traffic violations.

I'm looking into that right now. Sounds like i have to wait 1 year before i can get it expunged in my state. How early did you get yours expunged?

 

[southerndoc]

Expunged doesn’t remove it completely from your history. Prosecutors and law enforcement will still know about it (NCIC Database). Somehow some private search companies and PI’s have access to it.

Consult an attorney and pay close attention to what is being asked. Some ask for convictions (which may include Alford pleas in your state) and some ask for arrests. Even if expunged (better term is restricted since they aren’t really expunged) its best to honestly answer the question. A bad application will haunt you more than an arrest. Other states may take action against you based on lying or misstating the facts on another state’s application.

 

[Birdstrike]

Got screwed by a police officer into a ticket for a rail road violation.

Didn't want to bother with a second court date and did a no contest plea. Explained to the judge that the gate was malfunctioning and the circumstances. He fined me $25 basically.

I didn't understand it at the time, but even this minor offense is counting as a 4th degree misdemeanor in Ohio which is going on record.

Am i reporting something where i literally paid a $25 fine on all my future medical license applications???

I agree with those above. A minor thing like this will not and should not hurt your career, but you’ve got to handle it correctly. Pay a lawyer to do this right and you’ll have no worries.

 

[deleted547339]

I agree that I would pay a lawyer, but my 0.02c is that I would read the requirements very carefully and follow the letter of the law. If there is a caveat for “don’t include minor traffic violations” I think you are well within good faith by considering that a minor traffic violation (I vaguely remember a clause like this in all of my medical licensing), but I would 100% disclose if they don’t have that phrase or ask for “all felonies and misdemeanors.”

Also, I would be shocked if any licensing board rejected an app based on this. I imagine there will be a box to explain yourself if you answer yes. I think saying “I got a $25 ticket for going around a broken railroad crossing rail” would pretty quickly pass the sniff test and people would move on.

 

[oldiebutgoodie1211]

You're conflating terms. A "violation" and a "misdemeanor" are not the same. Best advice? Talk to a lawyer. On one hand, minor traffic. On the other, 4th degree misdemeanor. I mean, if you list it, it's just "rail gate violation". It's not like "fraud" or "marijuana" or "public urination".

The best mistake is the one you don't make. I have no experience, but, I've heard TX doesn't screw around.

they don’t screw around unless you’re a neurosurgeon who is literally maiming your patients then they’re chill

 

[Vandalia]

It is never the crime, it is the cover-up.

I agree that the best course of action is to consult an attorney.

However, you are far better off reporting something that you don't have to, and having the medical board staff laugh at you for including something so trivial, than for them to discover it after you omit it, and face a license denial or sanctions for an omission or falsification on the application.

My gut response would be to include it as "Misdemeanor - Railroad Gate Violation, $25."

No one will care and you get "brownie points" for being scrupulously honest.

 

[oldiebutgoodie1211]

It is never the crime, it is the cover-up.

I agree that the best course of action is to consult an attorney.

However, you are far better off reporting something that you don't have to, and having the medical board staff laugh at you for including something so trivial, than for them to discover it after you omit it, and face a license denial or sanctions for an omission or falsification on the application.

My gut response would be to include it as "Misdemeanor - Railroad Gate Violation, $25."

No one will care and you get "brownie points" for being scrupulously honest.

Is anyone going to think that you “covered up” a traffic ticket tho? The OP just seems to be overthinking this and whether or not you disclose will not make much of a difference moving forward so flip a coin and make your decision

 

[Apollyon]

Is anyone going to think that you “covered up” a traffic ticket tho? The OP just seems to be overthinking this and whether or not you disclose will not make much of a difference moving forward so flip a coin and make your decision

"Flip a coin" is remarkably bad advice. Analysis is fine, but, your comment to make a random choice is poor.

 

[thegenius]

"Flip a coin" is remarkably bad advice. Analysis is fine, but, your comment to make a random choice is poor.

Well, flipping a coin can only result in two choices while analyzing a situation and all of the potential decision points and resultant innumerable number of outcomes can be bewildering.

Analyzing a situation might produce: 4,523,871 outcomes
Flipping a coin will produce: 2 outcomes

So it may not be bad advice after all LOL

Just flip it!!!!

 

[deleted109597]

So, pretend that your medical license is like a much, much higher stakes Global Entry interview.
They already know your criminal record. They've pulled it. They also have your fingerprints.
Anything you lie about, they'll call you out on it. For GE, it means you get to wait in the normal customs line. For a medical license, it means not only do you possibly not get your license, but you have to report not getting that license to other states.
Just report it. I don't even think you need to pay a laywer hundreds of dollars per hour for this advice. Just put it on there. They aren't going to ask you for all the court documentation.

 

[Apollyon]

They aren't going to ask you for all the court documentation.

That's not a guarantee.

 

[deleted109597]

That's not a guarantee.

I suppose. But in this situation, what are you going to have? The summons? The plea? It's not like you're going to have court documents from this.
So I will amend my prior statement and tell you to save and include whatever you have from this case and submit it as well.
You're already submitting a million other forms. A couple more pages won't kill you.

Don't hide it, whatever you do.

 

[Buckeye1992]

Ohio and it’s traffic laws. Similar question. Speeding is also a minor misdemeanor in OH. My ticket was when I was 16. I got a notice from my county years ago that my juvenile record was being sealed and misdemeanor expunged since I didn’t have any further traffic violations. Do I list that on license applications?

 

[oldiebutgoodie1211]

this thread is a good illustration of the relative power or rather loss of power of physicians in the current climate. NPs with a nursing degree have fully autonomy not giving a **** while they provide substandard care and their board(?), if they even have one, looks the other way, while we have a bunch of seasoned attendings shaking in their boots over a traffic ticket..my how the tables have turned from even a couple decades ago

 

[Groove]

Disagree somewhat with @southerndoc

To “expunge” is to “erase or remove completely.” In law, “expungement” is the process by which a record of criminal conviction is destroyed or sealed from state or federal record. An expungement order directs the court to treat the criminal conviction as if it had never occurred, essentially removing it from a defendant’s criminal record as well as, ideally, the public record.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/publications/teaching-legal-docs/what-is-_expungement-/

If a court grants your request and your record is expunged, then the misdemeanor charge is legally discharged. If questions about criminal history come up on applications, you can honestly say that you have never been convicted of a crime. The misdemeanor should no longer show up on background check reports and cannot legally be used as grounds to disqualify you from employment consideration.

Do Misdemeanors Show Up On Background Checks

My attorney was very clear that it would never show up on any employment background check and that I could honestly answer that I had never been convicted of a misdemeanor or crime. Expungement is expungement. Sure, it might show up on some secret database if someone were applying for the CIA or NSA but how many of us are actually doing that? Even if we were, would they care if I answered "no" after a legal expungement? It's still the correct legal answer.

 

[Groove]

I'm looking into that right now. Sounds like i have to wait 1 year before i can get it expunged in my state. How early did you get yours expunged?

I'm not sure... it definitely had been over a year. Honestly, I wasn't that worried about it from a professional standpoint, it just bothered me that I had a technical misdemeanor d/t a traffic violation of all things. It was fairly painless though. I think I paid $200 bucks or something.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Just talk to a lawyer about it. Honestly it’s a traffic offense. The medical board is not some all seeing investigative medical board. I mean Dr. death and some other practitioners are able to get away with much much much worse. Not saying that these are comparable but a minor traffic violation provides no insight to your character or your ability to practice medicine.

Minor traffic violations just require fines and that’s it. Sometimes if it’s more serious they require you going in front of a judge. It’s not serious if you didn’t at least have to go to court for it.

 

[southerndoc]

Disagree somewhat with @southerndoc

To “expunge” is to “erase or remove completely.” In law, “expungement” is the process by which a record of criminal conviction is destroyed or sealed from state or federal record. An expungement order directs the court to treat the criminal conviction as if it had never occurred, essentially removing it from a defendant’s criminal record as well as, ideally, the public record.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/publications/teaching-legal-docs/what-is-_expungement-/

If a court grants your request and your record is expunged, then the misdemeanor charge is legally discharged. If questions about criminal history come up on applications, you can honestly say that you have never been convicted of a crime. The misdemeanor should no longer show up on background check reports and cannot legally be used as grounds to disqualify you from employment consideration.

Do Misdemeanors Show Up On Background Checks

My attorney was very clear that it would never show up on any employment background check and that I could honestly answer that I had never been convicted of a misdemeanor or crime. Expungement is expungement. Sure, it might show up on some secret database if someone were applying for the CIA or NSA but how many of us are actually doing that? Even if we were, would they care if I answered "no" after a legal expungement? It's still the correct legal answer.

I can assure you it still shows up in the NCIC. Whatever charge you had expunged will still be there with its disposition noted.

 

[Birdstrike]

Observation: Medical Boards tend to be either too slow to intervene when there's a serious safety concern or too quick to react to things that are petty and unimportant. They are the garden-gnome banning HOAs of the Medical world.

 

[bravotwozero]

Given how minor the offense is, I would declare it. I know it's not the same thing, but a week before I was to be sworn in as a US citizen, I got a $15 parking ticket from the city of Detroit, for parking too close to a fire hydrant. I actually had to declare that at my official swearing in ceremony to a police officer! He said 'I'm not worried', and that was the end of that lol...

 

[Vandalia]

Is anyone going to think that you “covered up” a traffic ticket tho? The OP just seems to be overthinking this and whether or not you disclose will not make much of a difference moving forward so flip a coin and make your decision

Well, I know an EM attending at a university program who received a public reprimand and a four-figure fine for completing his online "end of life" care training 15 minutes too early.

Or more specifically, for falsely reporting that he completed it during the period of 1 July to 30 June.

So, yes, boards can tend to be very picky about such things.

 

[Apollyon]

Well, I know an EM attending at a university program who received a public reprimand and a four-figure fine for completing his online "end of life" care training 15 minutes too early.

Or more specifically, for falsely reporting that he completed it during the period of 1 July to 30 June.

So, yes, boards can tend to be very picky about such things.

Nah, flip a coin. It's so basic, it's genius!

 

[oldiebutgoodie1211]

Nah, flip a coin. It's so basic, it's genius!

lol you’re sad

 

[Xerxes1729]

They aren't going to ask you for all the court documentation.

I was asked for the police report and court documentation of a similar incident I reported. I never went to court, just mailed in a check to pay the ticket. The police department said they no longer had records from that long ago (5-6 years). I got very lucky and knew someone who knew someone who knew the police chief and he wrote a letter stating that they did not have a record. I got my license evenually. So if you report it make sure you have documentation to submit. If you don't, I would speak to a lawyer ahead of time. I wish I had just paid a few hundred bucks. It might have saved me an enormous amount of trouble.

For what it's worth I didn't report it on my next state license and it went through without a hitch.

 

[bravotwozero]

I was asked for the police report and court documentation of a similar incident I reported. I never went to court, just mailed in a check to pay the ticket. The police department said they no longer had records from that long ago (5-6 years). I got very lucky and knew someone who knew someone who knew the police chief and he wrote a letter stating that they did not have a record. I got my license evenually. So if you report it make sure you have documentation to submit. If you don't, I would speak to a lawyer ahead of time. I wish I had just paid a few hundred bucks. It might have saved me an enormous amount of trouble.

For what it's worth I didn't report it on my next state license and it went through without a hitch.

Ok, you know what, I'm going to retract my previous statement. The OP should talk to a lawyer, lol.

What a crazy, convoluted system!

 

[deleted109597]

Just talk to a lawyer about it. Honestly it’s a traffic offense. The medical board is not some all seeing investigative medical board. I mean Dr. death and some other practitioners are able to get away with much much much worse. Not saying that these are comparable but a minor traffic violation provides no insight to your character or your ability to practice medicine.

Medical boards only investigate you if you're reported. They aren't checking in on physicians in their day to day practice.
You applying for a medical license is basically reporting yourself. The biggest hurdle is the first.

 

[miacomet]

Lol this happened to me because any kind of moving violation is a misdemeanor in my state. Nearly all licensing applications ask about misdemeanors excepting moving violations. One state didn't have this caveat, presumably because it never occurred to them that a moving violation could be a misdemeanor. I reported it honestly, and some administrative judge had to look at it and all was fine. Kept someone employed reviewing applications, I guess.

 

[Fart Daddy Smooth]

Not an MD, but when I applied for my RN license a shoplifting charge from 14 years earlier came up. The kicker? I was 13 at the time and charges were dropped. Never occurred to me that I should have reported it. It was sorted out with a letter explaining the circumstances, but still.

Point is - if there's something to find, they'll find it.

 

[miacomet]

Not an MD, but when I applied for my RN license a shoplifting charge from 14 years earlier came up. The kicker? I was 13 at the time and charges were dropped. Never occurred to me that I should have reported it. It was sorted out with a letter explaining the circumstances, but still.

Point is - if there's something to find, they'll find it.

I have to say it's insane they would charge a 13 year old for shoplifting unless there were extenuating circumstances. Certainly not a juvenile justice best practice.