Declining Salaries???

[LJDHC05]

For all those concerned about the declining wages of physicians:
Forbe's top 25 best and worst paying jobs

Apparently 13 of the top 15 paying jobs are medically related...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[StevenRF]

Those numbers on the Dr.'s salaries seem low to me. Do they average in the wages for the residents as well or is it post tax / expenses? It would be really interesting for them to list the top jobs on a per hour basis.


Conclusion: Medine is still the guaranteed path to the good life.

 

[78222]

This is because America's medical professionals (especially on the administrative end) are overpayed.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

No, those are about average for practicing physicians.....although the stats given for a psychiatrist is way higher than what I have previously seen.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Hell yeah! Docs are way overpaid!

 

[78222]

Doctors eat babies and rob the poor!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

They eat babies?! Do they prefer them grilled or sauteed?

 

[78222]

Duly noted...want me to edit my previous post then?

yeah, lets get this thread booted to no mans land I'll change mine as well.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Hell yeah

 

[MarzMD]

Wow, the lounge crew is all over this thread before it is even rejected and sent to the lounge.

 

[MahlerROCKS]

Wow, the lounge crew is all over this thread before it is even rejected and sent to the lounge.

OB/GYN's might make $174,000 according to forbes, but som easily pay that much in malpractice insurance

 

[donanderson]

No way $180,000 is the mean surgeon's sallary. Here's a link to the average physican's salaries ranging from just out of residency to average pay to high end pay. 180,000 is about a third of what the avg. surgeon makes. Hope the link goes through.
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

 

[NonTradMed]

OB/GYN's might make $174,000 according to forbes, but som easily pay that much in malpractice insurance

Aren't salary suppose to be the take home pay before taxes and malpractice insurance considered part of the operating cost? From my understanding, when people how much dr. so-and-so makes, it's with the assumption that the malpractice insurance, along with the utility cost of the clinic etc are all excluded.

 

[jbone]

Wow, the lounge crew is all over this thread before it is even rejected and sent to the lounge.

Lounge crew?
surebrec, dropkick...you losers. lounge crew.

 

[zbruinz]

Conclusion: Medine is still the guaranteed path to the good life.

Medicine may lead to the good life, but it won't lead to the best life.

 

[StevenRF]

Medicine may lead to the good life, but it won't lead to the best life.

True that. But we can't all be Walton's or Hilton's.

 

[zbruinz]

True that. But we can't all be Walton's or Hilton's.

we can try, at least try, brother!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Lounge crew?
surebrec, dropkick...you losers. lounge crew.

Eh, what can I say?

True that. But we can't all be Walton's or Hilton's.

Waltons?

 

[MossPoh]

Granted I like money, even with the whole controversey that current doctors and docs of the future won't be making as much as in the past..they will still have a damn good life compared to a large majority. In Germany (sorry to compare something with German again for those that actually read my posts....when that is all you see for a few months it is what begins to stick) the doctors are going on strike for low pay and "high" hours. The average salary might peak at 60k. I say "high" hours because when you walk around here you look at their office hours and they only open their offices 3 and a half days a week, not including any holidays, which is a huge amount here. I guarentee they work a lot more hours than it seems, but I have a hard time accepting it is compareable to american docs. They don't have a real tuition to worry about, but they also spend A LOT longer kind of lounging around studying for exams and leeching off the system a bit. I think salaries will lower a bit and then kind of stick to a point...if they get too low there will be some very big complaints that people won't ignore. If you want a great life where you sit on he beach all day..well hell I don't know..except for the lotto most of the people who are filthy rich worked their a$$es off early on and also lucked out a bit. Get good at investing...that is where you'll make most of your money if you are wise anyway. Or if you are a nympho that is attactive and really don't care who you sleep with...high end prostitution seems to be pretty lucrative...and drugs work too.

 

[78222]

Lounge crew?
surebrec, dropkick...you losers. lounge crew.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

 

[Law2Doc]

No way $180,000 is the mean surgeon's sallary. Here's a link to the average physican's salaries ranging from just out of residency to average pay to high end pay. 180,000 is about a third of what the avg. surgeon makes. Hope the link goes through.
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

Agree with Dropkick Murphy --the Forbes numbers seem to be more in line with reality. The allied-physicians numbers are skewed high because they are based on survey info, and only those who are proud/happy about their income tend to return the survey, creating a warped perception of reality. Sort of how the average stats numbers on MDApplicants tends to be much higher than the application pool at large. If you are embarrassed about what you earn, you don't return the survey. Also I think a big component of their survey info comes through the LA Times, which focuses on a much higher salaried population of physicians.
At any rate, what surgeons earn now doesn't mean salaries are not declining -- you have to know what they were earning a few years ago (adjusted for inflation) and what they are predicted to earn a few years from now. Looking at the historic numbers you fill find that the salaries (as inflation adjusted) are flat or somewhat declined. Some predict that this trend will continue, especially as insurers get a better stranglehold on healthcare.

 

[jbone]

I love you guys.

 

[xanthomondo]

How much do people make in residency usually?

 

[Brickhouse]

OB/GYN's might make $174,000 according to forbes, but som easily pay that much in malpractice insurance

Exactly - they make 180, they hand 90 back to the insurance companies - figure in school loans, overhead, what have you....why am I doing this this again?

I love how the picture of the "general internist" has two guys in surgical masks....you know, cuz internists are always in the OR....

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

Exactly - they make 180, they hand 90 back to the insurance companies - figure in school loans, overhead, what have you....why am I doing this this again?

I love how the picture of the "general internist" has two guys in surgical masks....you know, cuz internists are always in the OR....

This is highly dependent upon the state where you practice. Fortunately, TX has some of the most progresive tort reform laws (yes, I used progressive and TX in the same sentence) and malpractice insurance is low. As a general rule, I would guess that "Blue" states would have high malpractice insurance because of the influence of the trial lawyers' lobby, but I already know that that "rule" is wrong because CA (a "blue" state) also has passed tort reform legislation, as well.

For the record, I am neither "Red" nor "Blue" and am not pushing an agenda.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

why am I doing this this again?

For the nookie?

I don't know. I was wondering the same thing...personally I think you have to be a little screwed up to want to be an OB/GYN.....not quite as screwed up as those who pursue colorectal surgery, but still you have to have issues?

 

[gostudy]

why am I doing this this again?

For the nookie?

 

[78222]

Fred Herst makes me racist against white people.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Fred Herst makes me racist against white people.

I don't know who I am more ashamed to share my skin color with:
-These two numbskulls (thank God I could find a pic of them together so I don't have to waste any extra bandwidth on them):

-This obnoxious SOB:

(This is the ****** behind Scientology in case you didn't know it)

I guess it's a toss up between "horrendous embarrassments/f--king ******s" and "genocidal despots and religious crackpots"

 

[DropkickMurphy]

On a related note, do our black counterparts ever like look at 50Cent and go "Why couldn't the person who shot him aimed more carefully?" I mean there are some really embarrassing black celebrities out there- R.Kelly being another example.....

 

[donanderson]

Agree with Dropkick Murphy --the Forbes numbers seem to be more in line with reality. The allied-physicians numbers are skewed high because they are based on survey info, and only those who are proud/happy about their income tend to return the survey, creating a warped perception of reality. Sort of how the average stats numbers on MDApplicants tends to be much higher than the application pool at large. If you are embarrassed about what you earn, you don't return the survey. Also I think a big component of their survey info comes through the LA Times, which focuses on a much higher salaried population of physicians.
At any rate, what surgeons earn now doesn't mean salaries are not declining -- you have to know what they were earning a few years ago (adjusted for inflation) and what they are predicted to earn a few years from now. Looking at the historic numbers you fill find that the salaries (as inflation adjusted) are flat or somewhat declined. Some predict that this trend will continue, especially as insurers get a better stranglehold on healthcare.

Thats a good point about the survey being optional but, at the same time, it didn't say in the article if Forbes took resident sallaries into account or not. That would have a HUGE negative effect on the "average" salary the nations surgeons make. The page I gave was strictly based off salaries post-residency.

 

[RobHan]

who pays for those insurance by the way?

OB/GYN's might make $174,000 according to forbes, but som easily pay that much in malpractice insurance

 

[LJDHC05]

On a related note, do our black counterparts ever like look at 50Cent and go "Why couldn't the person who shot him aimed more carefully?" I mean there are some really embarrassing black celebrities out there- R.Kelly being another example.....

You forgot this douche

and where does this one fall?

 

[siroos]

For all those concerned about the declining wages of physicians:
Forbe's top 25 best and worst paying jobs

Apparently 13 of the top 15 paying jobs are medically related...

I can understand how the Health care involved professions, Air Traffic Controllers, Optometrists, CEOs, Pilots can be on that list... but why Astronomers ?

 

[Brickhouse]

This is highly dependent upon the state where you practice. Fortunately, TX has some of the most progresive tort reform laws (yes, I used progressive and TX in the same sentence) and malpractice insurance is low. As a general rule, I would guess that "Blue" states would have high malpractice insurance because of the influence of the trial lawyers' lobby, but I already know that that "rule" is wrong because CA (a "blue" state) also has passed tort reform legislation, as well.

For the record, I am neither "Red" nor "Blue" and am not pushing an agenda.

Quit pushing your agenda on me, jota.

.....at any rate, I hope to practice in big blue cali so that's all good news to me!

 

[Brickhouse]

and where does this one fall?

Oh. My. God. I'm beyond words. What...I mean....really?

 

[francisdoss]

That's ballony....

 

[Law2Doc]

Thats a good point about the survey being optional but, at the same time, it didn't say in the article if Forbes took resident sallaries into account or not. That would have a HUGE negative effect on the "average" salary the nations surgeons make. The page I gave was strictly based off salaries post-residency.

I'm pretty sure the Forbes numbers are closer to average for post residency, and that the site you gave has more skewing.

 

[Law2Doc]

How much do people make in residency usually?

It is program dependant, but tends to be somewhere around $40k, plus or minus. There are small raises based on years of years of seniority.

 

[PosterY]

Do we have to make student loan payments while in residency? Because that would be like $20k, at least for me.

 

[gostudy]

Dude, we all know MJ is Asian.

and where does this one fall?

 

[donanderson]

I'm pretty sure the Forbes numbers are closer to average for post residency, and that the site you gave has more skewing.

I think you're right about Forbes when it comes to accuracy, but again I didn't see the anything in the entire article mentioning whether it took into account the low pay residents recieve. The article states "According to government data, the mean annual salary for America's 55,390 surgeons is $181,850." It says for America's 55,390 surgeons (implying all of america's surgeons, not just the attendings). I have no grudge against the Forbes article, I just think the avg. numbers are a little low based on information I've recieved from doctors and medical students.

 

[Nodelphi]

Meh. I'm doing scientific research and make under 30k a year. I'm living just fine off of that at the moment so anything more than that is just gravy, honestly I don't really know what I'd do with more money. It's all in your perspective if you ask me. I'll be doing something I love and that's enough.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Meh. I'm doing scientific research and make under 30k a year. I'm living just fine off of that at the moment so anything more than that is just gravy, honestly I don't really know what I'd do with more money. It's all in your perspective if you ask me. I'll be doing something I love and that's enough.

Spoken like a true premed. In fact it's so syrupy I think I may puke.

 

[Doula-2-OB]

A book I read (written in 2003) about becoming a doctor/going through med school suggested going to Salary.com to find out salary ranges, and for OB/GYN (I don't know where they pull their data from..) it says the national average salary is $220K. You can also pull up what your net paycheck would be for your job, too.

Well, there's this:

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Every job in the Salary Wizard has been thoroughly researched and validated by Salary.com's team of compensation consultants who have combined experience of over 40 years in the compensation and statistical analysis fields. Salary.com purchases the most current salary surveys available from well-recognized, reputable compensation consulting firms. This survey data is used for analysis and benchmarking by extracting and reporting the market salary data for each position that matches to one of the jobs reported in the Salary Wizard. To ensure jobs are appropriately matched, our analysts benchmark the jobs based on job content, not job title. Note that all data used in researching salary levels for the Salary Wizard has been reported by human resource professionals. Salary.com does not use any salary information from individual site users, placement agencies, job postings, nor any other sources that would traditionally be characterized as "unreliable" by compensation or human resource professionals..

 

[HTD]

I know that the typical posting of premed or med students here represents a mostly hopeful or speculative audience. There are many things to consider about salary. Traditional physicians do not earn a "salary". They operate a small business and are owners or partners. So their salary is a very subjective number. In the last 10 years or so, many more physicians are employed by hospitals and have a "salary" as you may think of it. Either way, I think the numbers you are seeing from surveys represent after expense pay.

Extememly simple version of this
The business owner may report $200,000.00 and it represents what he/she takes after paying the bills & insurance. The Employed physician may report a salary of $200,000.00 and they dont have bills because theirs are payed by the employer.

We are paid well as a profession. We are also a profession with a lot of liability. My personal pathway is to have an enjoyable practice by limiting my work hours and accepting the economic consequences of that choice. I also do not see my practice as my sole source of retirement income/nest egg. I have two part time businesses and my wife is a physician.

Good luck all!

 

[LizUMD]

No way $180,000 is the mean surgeon's sallary. Here's a link to the average physican's salaries ranging from just out of residency to average pay to high end pay. 180,000 is about a third of what the avg. surgeon makes. Hope the link goes through.
http://www.allied-physicians.com/salary_surveys/physician-salaries.htm

Ummm.... I'm trying to figure out how the salary for a non-ob FP is supposedly higher in the first year than it is after three plus years experience...

Something tells me this chart is a little fishy.

 

[Nodelphi]

Spoken like a true premed. In fact it's so syrupy I think I may puke.

Call it what you will but I'll wager you've never spent five years in a mostly dead end job and have to worry about where the money's going to come for your kid's education. I was staring down the barrel of a lifetime of debt with little reward anyhow, I might as well be doing something I like you know? This career change is a big deal to me and something I look at as an achievement to be proud of.

I'm not trying to take your cynicism away from you, so lets agree to disagree and be e-friends.

 

[Brickhouse]

Call it what you will but I'll wager you've never spent five years in a mostly dead end job and have to worry about where the money's going to come for your kid's education. I was staring down the barrel of a lifetime of debt with little reward anyhow, I might as well be doing something I like you know? This career change is a big deal to me and something I look at as an achievement to be proud of.

I'm not trying to take your cynicism away from you, so lets agree to disagree and be e-friends.

good comeback, and you should be proud! (not that I don't also love and generally agree with dropkick)