deferment denied -- now what?

[shoal]

So my deferment request was denied, my appeal for my deferment was denied as well. I ended up moving due to a job which was better than my other opportunity and started a few days before the offer was extended (which by the way was past the timeframe the school stated (6-8 weeks). And far beyond the timeline the student tour guides stated (2-3 weeks). So I figured I was going to be waitlisted at best. So I took an excellent job in
Biomedical research. The opportunities are excellent for great exposure, patents, and exposure to device design and development. Plus I am in beautiful Colorado now, where I can enjoy myself once without attending school – or worrying about money.

Even with my slightly above average stats, I only was extended one interview – which ended up in an acceptance. There are numerous reasons why it is not beneficial for me to start this August including

1. Cost – it’ll cost me roughly $14,000 – yes $14,000 to move home early since I signed a contract requiring a one year commitment otherwise lose lease, moving costs, signing bonuses etc.

2. Time before school where I can enjoy myself, relax and not have to worry about repaying immense school loans and cost

3. Principle – The school has been above and beyond any of my requests and essentially seems like it has been toying with me. After my first request for deferment it took 3 weeks for a response. After my appeal, 2 weeks, I had an additional request for documentation that was needed to verify my claims. I provided promptly, thinking that this must be good news. After another 2 weeks, (a month later – the denial comes in my front door). So all and all, the process took 2 months, and 30-40 hours revising and editing letters which ended up doing nothing.

These reasons are not in any particular order.

I know the pros, are that the process is a crapshoot, and I’ve been offered an acceptance and many people would jump on it – but I feel I am missing a huge opportunity to learn while I am young enough to gain experience in the business world – that will be economically unfeasible as a future physician with 200k in loans.

I want to reapply – but I don’t know if my outcome will be any better than this application year – since I have been in limbo – working, wondering about acceptances that I haven’t done much to further my application.

So what would you do?
How long is a MCAT score good for? (3 years is my understanding) I took it in April 05, would that be good to matriculate in 08? So no application this year, but next?

Thanks-

Tired, worried and all too stressed out lowly pre-med graduate.

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[Beaner81]

So my deferment request was denied, my appeal for my deferment was denied as well. I ended up moving due to a job which was better than my other opportunity and started a few days before the offer was extended (which by the way was past the timeframe the school stated (6-8 weeks). And far beyond the timeline the student tour guides stated (2-3 weeks). So I figured I was going to be waitlisted at best. So I took an excellent job in
Biomedical research. The opportunities are excellent for great exposure, patents, and exposure to device design and development. Plus I am in beautiful Colorado now, where I can enjoy myself once without attending school – or worrying about money.

Even with my slightly above average stats, I only was extended one interview – which ended up in an acceptance. There are numerous reasons why it is not beneficial for me to start this August including

1. Cost – it’ll cost me roughly $14,000 – yes $14,000 to move home early since I signed a contract requiring a one year commitment otherwise lose lease, moving costs, signing bonuses etc.

2. Time before school where I can enjoy myself, relax and not have to worry about repaying immense school loans and cost

3. Principle – The school has been above and beyond any of my requests and essentially seems like it has been toying with me. After my first request for deferment it took 3 weeks for a response. After my appeal, 2 weeks, I had an additional request for documentation that was needed to verify my claims. I provided promptly, thinking that this must be good news. After another 2 weeks, (a month later – the denial comes in my front door). So all and all, the process took 2 months, and 30-40 hours revising and editing letters which ended up doing nothing.

These reasons are not in any particular order.

I know the pros, are that the process is a crapshoot, and I’ve been offered an acceptance and many people would jump on it – but I feel I am missing a huge opportunity to learn while I am young enough to gain experience in the business world – that will be economically unfeasible as a future physician with 200k in loans.

I want to reapply – but I don’t know if my outcome will be any better than this application year – since I have been in limbo – working, wondering about acceptances that I haven’t done much to further my application.

So what would you do?
How long is a MCAT score good for? (3 years is my understanding) I took it in April 05, would that be good to matriculate in 08? So no application this year, but next?

Thanks-

Tired, worried and all too stressed out lowly pre-med graduate.

Yikes, I feel your pain and your story scares me! I got accepted to one of my top choices, and I'm gearing up to send in my letter requesting a deferral for a reason similar to yours. I am simply at a point of tremendous learning and opportunity at my VERY medically-related job, and I don't want to leave. And other reasons I'm not including in my letter: more time off, money, travel, great city, live-in boyfriend...
Do you have any thoughts on chances of deferrment due to a medically-related job? Any stories you've heard?
As far as your questions...I'd probably just suck it up and go to school, as much as it sucks. For me, it's less scary and difficult than re-applying. Plus, think about the money you'd spend on another round of applications and interviews... I know it's not 14K, but it's significant.
Good luck!

 

[silas2642]

I think that this is one of those moments where you have to sit back and ask yourself if this is really what you want to do with your life. If you really and truly want to pursue medicine, then you'll go to the school you were accepted to-- it's not worth the trouble of reapplying next year after you've rescinded a perfectly good acceptance to a perfectly good medical school and cross your fingers for a positive outcome, especially if you only got one interview this year.

 

[paradisedoc]

Is the $14,000 due to needing to pay an entire year on your lease? It seems that you may be able to renegotiate or sublet or something. For that kind of money, it is worth it to talk to an attorney.
I am writing all this because I believe you should take the medical school spot that you have been offered. Eventhough it seems like you really could use the year off, I wouldn't chance not being accepted anywhere when you reapply. For whatevr reason, it sounds like you only have the one late acceptance, so it would be iffy if you could get accepted next year. Perhaps you could take a year off after first year, or maybe go in person and explain your financial and other needs? You really sound like you need the year off---TALK TO THEM IN PERSON, but if your med school still says no, I would go and try to make the best of it.
Best of luck with your decision.

 

[reylting]

So my deferment request was denied, my appeal for my deferment was denied as well. I ended up moving due to a job which was better than my other opportunity and started a few days before the offer was extended (which by the way was past the timeframe the school stated (6-8 weeks). And far beyond the timeline the student tour guides stated (2-3 weeks). So I figured I was going to be waitlisted at best. So I took an excellent job in
Biomedical research. The opportunities are excellent for great exposure, patents, and exposure to device design and development. Plus I am in beautiful Colorado now, where I can enjoy myself once without attending school – or worrying about money.

Even with my slightly above average stats, I only was extended one interview – which ended up in an acceptance. There are numerous reasons why it is not beneficial for me to start this August including

1. Cost – it’ll cost me roughly $14,000 – yes $14,000 to move home early since I signed a contract requiring a one year commitment otherwise lose lease, moving costs, signing bonuses etc.

2. Time before school where I can enjoy myself, relax and not have to worry about repaying immense school loans and cost

3. Principle – The school has been above and beyond any of my requests and essentially seems like it has been toying with me. After my first request for deferment it took 3 weeks for a response. After my appeal, 2 weeks, I had an additional request for documentation that was needed to verify my claims. I provided promptly, thinking that this must be good news. After another 2 weeks, (a month later – the denial comes in my front door). So all and all, the process took 2 months, and 30-40 hours revising and editing letters which ended up doing nothing.

These reasons are not in any particular order.

I know the pros, are that the process is a crapshoot, and I’ve been offered an acceptance and many people would jump on it – but I feel I am missing a huge opportunity to learn while I am young enough to gain experience in the business world – that will be economically unfeasible as a future physician with 200k in loans.

I want to reapply – but I don’t know if my outcome will be any better than this application year – since I have been in limbo – working, wondering about acceptances that I haven’t done much to further my application.

So what would you do?
How long is a MCAT score good for? (3 years is my understanding) I took it in April 05, would that be good to matriculate in 08? So no application this year, but next?

Thanks-

Tired, worried and all too stressed out lowly pre-med graduate.

The fact that you moved while on the waitlist may mean that you really had no intention of going even if you got in. It may have been a subconscious decision but a decisoin nonetheless. Follow your instincts. This definitley is a tough situtation. Good Luck!

 

[Captain Fantastic]

Is the $14,000 due to needing to pay an entire year on your lease? It seems that you may be able to renegotiate or sublet or something. For that kind of money, it is worth it to talk to an attorney.

It's probably like $700/month for the apartment on a year long lease plus a $5K signing bonus that he'll have to repay since he wouldn't have worked there a year (or whatever his employment contract stipulates).

You gotta do what's right for you. I'd take the seat.

 

[SoCuteMD]

It's probably like $700/month for the apartment on a year long lease plus a $5K signing bonus that he'll have to repay since he wouldn't have worked there a year (or whatever his employment contract stipulates).

You gotta do what's right for you. I'd take the seat.

Any lease has a get out early and pay up clause. They can be expensive but such is life. I think he mentioned forfeiting moving expenses and such - so that would be a lot (especially since when most people have a corporation footing the bill the prices get jacked up on them!).

I'd take it in a heartbeat. You will learn soon enough that you get very little control in this ENTIRE process.

 

[shoal]

I apperciate all the advise so far. The offer was extended the end of Jan. I interviewed mid November. I was not on a waitlist - I thought I may have been due to the long wait to hear about an offer.

Clarification on the cost of moving back
$850 - lease
$2500 temporary living/moving costs (personal and small items)
$5000 signing bonus
$3000 professional movers
$1000 car transport
plus the cost of moving back.

Its a tough decision, keep the advice coming. My advice to the poster following me, be very specific, don't make a laundry list of reasons, express whats most important, avoid finicial discussions. My initial deferment request was over 2 pages, my second 3 pages which only covered one topic in depth. Apparently helping in a third world country is worthwhile - but helping with research is not. A patent is not as valued as a Marshall scholarship. Its a crock of horse**** if you ask me.

 

[sheepunite]

i'd withdraw my application, honestly.
unless you'd be applying to this school again with the hopes of gaining admission next year.

otherwise, yr reasons for wanting to defer are sound, and you'll gain a good year's worth of experience to add to yr next amcas application.

this is just some advice from a 26-year-old grad student who's seriously projecting.
good luck with your decision.

 

[Apparition]

Won't you encounter the same moving costs next year?

 

[shoal]

After my committment year has been completed, I will owe nothing - except the cost of moving back. so now, it'll be reduced by the costs listed above.

Thats what I was thinking sheepunite. Do I really want to be at a place where I have sound reasons for deferment that denies my request? They are all about the flexible MD program - yet they have no flexibility upfront.. Doesn't seem quite right and makes me nervous about what may go on at this school.

 

[Touchdown]

Dont withdraw if you want to go to med school, every med school asks in their secondaries if you have been accpeted to a medical school in the previous year and then asks why you arent there. It is a huge red flag, bite the bullet and pay the fee; if you truely want to be a doctor then this should be a no brainer.

 

[Law2Doc]

Do I really want to be at a place where I have sound reasons for deferment that denies my request? They are all about the flexible MD program - yet they have no flexibility upfront.. Doesn't seem quite right and makes me nervous about what may go on at this school.

Most schools don't grant deferments as a matter of right. Some basically require significant health issues. It's not like undergrad. I wouldn't read anything about the school into this.

 

[shoal]

I absolutely want to become a doctor. One of the reasons I want to become a doctor is obviously to make a difference, but I think I can maximize my worth by taking this year off and learning about industry, helping to develop a product, possibily be included on a patent, and really gain some valuable insight into how the medical device industry works. Then down the road as a physician - I could use these skills to hopefully improve patient care through consultation or interaction with industry. I want to primarily be a physican and do this on the side. I may be niave, but I also think it is worth a shot.

On a side note. As an intern in a biomedical company (R&D). There was a noticable disconnect between what the engineers understood, and what the real problems in an OR are, what patients need. I believe this huge disconnect needs to be resolved to reduce healthcare costs, and ultimately improve patient care and quality of life.

 

[ShyRem]

I would think that if you ended up applying next year you'd have a good story. "I did apply, and was accepted. However, the decision was given to me much later than promised by the med school. After their last possible date had passed, I prepared for a year off to reapply and found a job. I moved to that job location and then the med school offered me a position. Unfortunately, I was locked in to the new job (and lease) and was unable to break them. The med school also was unable to offer me a deferment. It was a very unfortunate situation that has led me to reapplying this year."

I can't imagine that would be a bad explanation.

 

[shoal]

Hey Shy, Where ya living in CO? Is CU a good med school?

 

[Law2Doc]

I would think that if you ended up applying next year you'd have a good story. "I did apply, and was accepted. However, the decision was given to me much later than promised by the med school. After their last possible date had passed, I prepared for a year off to reapply and found a job. I moved to that job location and then the med school offered me a position. Unfortunately, I was locked in to the new job (and lease) and was unable to break them. The med school also was unable to offer me a deferment. It was a very unfortunate situation that has led me to reapplying this year."

I can't imagine that would be a bad explanation.

It probably flies at some places. Probably as good a spin you could come up with. More prestigious places might still have a sneaking suspician that the OP was jockying for a better school. And there will always be some that will question a committment to medicine by not finding a way to go -- the amount of money the OP is talking about is dwarfed by current med school costs, and is not dissimilar to costs lots of people who get pulled off the waitlist last minute incur.

 

[liverotcod]

The money isn't an important consideration. Just decide if you want to go to med school this year or risk not getting in next.

Also, you didn't apply to enough schools, so if you applied another round you could correct that. Although as Touchdown pointed out, you'll have a red flag.

 

[shoal]

Right, its not just about the money. I can take debt on, whats another $5-10k compared to the 200k... not much. But the cost of losing the experience could be far more valuable. And will I end up hating it due to the circumstances that brought me into it? It's hard to break poor first impressions. I cannot say this is much fun, but I do have some time to think.

 

[LizzyM]

Yes, you have a red flag next year. Also, you might easily spend a boat-load of money on reapplying next year which off-sets the costs you are looking at now to bale on the job & go to the med school that has a seat for you. Bite the bullet & go to med school or forget it.

Learning about business before basic sciences, before clinical rotations and before residency is a major case of "cart before the horse".

 

[Gabby]

I would think that if you ended up applying next year you'd have a good story. "I did apply, and was accepted. However, the decision was given to me much later than promised by the med school. After their last possible date had passed, I prepared for a year off to reapply and found a job. I moved to that job location and then the med school offered me a position. Unfortunately, I was locked in to the new job (and lease) and was unable to break them. The med school also was unable to offer me a deferment. It was a very unfortunate situation that has led me to reapplying this year."

I can't imagine that would be a bad explanation.

Keep in mind I'm not a med student so I'm no expert at this. However, my degree is in journalism and as a former professional journalist as well as a political press secretary, spinning is my thing.

I think Shy Rem is offering excellent advice here! I'd play up the fact that commitments are important to you and because you made a year-long commitment to your new employer after the school's date had passed, you didn't want to break your word. You wanted a deferrment, but were denied, so you had to make a choice and it simply came down to not wanting to renege on a deal made in good faith. Your word is all people have to go by when judging your reputation. If you don't have that, you essentially have nothing.

I can't imagine a med school that would have a problem with that explanation. Don't they all want integrity out of a future doctor?

 

[LizzyM]

I can't imagine a med school that would have a problem with that explanation. Don't they all want integrity out of a future doctor?

If this applicant had only one interview and only one offer either s/he did not apply widely enough or the application is "iffy". There is no saying whether a year in an R&D setting is going to make this application "more attractive". There is a chance that there will be no interview offers next year. I see this as a bird in hand (an expensive bird to grab hold of but this is an expensive process) and next year there may be nothing to grab at all.

 

[shoal]

My stats were included on the first post - you are correct , I did not apply to enough schools. My GPA is higher as well with my final semester, finished with 3 semester in a row of 4.0. but all in all, I would be taking a year off to reapply. My clinical experience is what is lacking even though I have plenty of in-vivo animal lab work.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

If this applicant had only one interview and only one offer either s/he did not apply widely enough or the application is "iffy". There is no saying whether a year in an R&D setting is going to make this application "more attractive". There is a chance that there will be no interview offers next year. I see this as a bird in hand (an expensive bird to grab hold of but this is an expensive process) and next year there may be nothing to grab at all.

Agree, I'd go to the school and give up the job. I spent about $7k applying this year, and I think that's pretty average, especially if you consider traveling costs for interviewing. Since the op only had one interview, he/she would probably need to apply broadly to feel confident about getting admitted, which means one more application year won't be cheap. Factor in the opportunity cost of losing a year of working as a physician, and losing that $13k doesn't sound too horrible.

 

[SalseraDoctora]

I think you should follow your instincts and reapply later. If you really are interested in the job you just took and you like your life now as it is and you would be happy reapplying in two years, you should definitely do that. The work experience and time off can only strengthen your application, and I do think that it will make you a better physician in the long run anyway to have more real world experience. I don't know how old you are, but you seem as though you are not in a rush, so I would keep your good job and reapply in two years. If you were interviewed in November and accepted in January to this school you must have a reasonably solid application, and two years from now you will be the exact same solid applicant, except with more experience. Med school seems like a grueling enough experience without having to start off with some serious misgivings. I absolutely do not think you burn any bridges by reapplying.

Good luck with your decision in either case.

 

[lilnoelle]

.

Clarification on the cost of moving back
$850 - lease
$2500 temporary living/moving costs (personal and small items)
$5000 signing bonus
$3000 professional movers
$1000 car transport
plus the cost of moving back.

.

I wouldn't count the bonus as a moving expense - its a job perk and I would consider that as a loss of income, not an expense. There is no need to spend $3000 on professional movers, and you wouldn't need a car transport either if you wanted to do it as cheap as possible. Rent a u-haul and either have someone drive your car back with you or tow it. And whats the temporary living/moving costs? Hotels, toothpaste, etc? Again, driving back and making it a quick trip would take care of that. I'd say all you'd be out of is the lease and the cost of moving back.

 

[shoal]

I wouldn't count the bonus as a moving expense - its a job perk and I would consider that as a loss of income, not an expense. There is no need to spend $3000 on professional movers, and you wouldn't need a car transport either if you wanted to do it as cheap as possible. Rent a u-haul and either have someone drive your car back with you or tow it. And whats the temporary living/moving costs? Hotels, toothpaste, etc? Again, driving back and making it a quick trip would take care of that. I'd say all you'd be out of is the lease and the cost of moving back.

Those costs are already accured. They are the costs of moving out here - Not the costs that I will be spending to move back.

 

[shoal]

I think you should follow your instincts and reapply later. If you really are interested in the job you just took and you like your life now as it is and you would be happy reapplying in two years, you should definitely do that. The work experience and time off can only strengthen your application, and I do think that it will make you a better physician in the long run anyway to have more real world experience. I don't know how old you are, but you seem as though you are not in a rush, so I would keep your good job and reapply in two years. If you were interviewed in November and accepted in January to this school you must have a reasonably solid application, and two years from now you will be the exact same solid applicant, except with more experience. Med school seems like a grueling enough experience without having to start off with some serious misgivings. I absolutely do not think you burn any bridges by reapplying.

Good luck with your decision in either case.

I apperciate the insight. As a follow-up to this statement, How long is a mcat score good for? Can I apply next year with a April 05 mcat?

 

[LizzyM]

I apperciate the insight. As a follow-up to this statement, How long is a mcat score good for? Can I apply next year with a April 05 mcat?

Yes. But frankly, your MCAT is just okay and your gpa, while showing an up-tick is not, overall, terrific.

Adcoms look for applicants who can relate to sick people. Small animal lab is an interesting EC but it is no substitute to clinical experiences. If you aren't getting face-to-face experience with sick people in the coming year I would not expect you to have a great "second season". Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just calling it like I see it.

(I've seen a few hundred appies per year for several years - as an adcom member - so I know the deal.)

 

[shoal]

Thank you for your frankness. I agree that my stats are not stellar - but should be good enough as a reapplicant. 33 is 90th percentile. If I am not mistaken the average matriculate is right around 30.5 or so. As well, my low gpa comparatively allowed me to graduate with highest honors (top 10%) - which has done me injustice due to the absence of grade inflation. But all and all, your point is taken to heart.

 

[ShyRem]

Hey Shy, Where ya living in CO? Is CU a good med school?

I'm on the western slope, but I did work as a medic in the Denver metro area for 10 years. CU is in a state of flux right now - they redid the curriculum last year, they're moving to a new location in the next couple of years, tuition schedule has been redone this year. CU has very poor alumni donations, but I don't know what that says.

I would have LOVED to have gone to CU, but they wouldn't even interview me. So much for in-state love. I have seen it's a great school from the medic standpoint and from a patient standpoint. There are, as usual, happy and unhappy students there. I think the current period of instability makes this a difficult question, but if they had offered me a spot, I would have withdrawn from everywhere else.

 

[notdeadyet]

Even with my slightly above average stats, I only was extended one interview – which ended up in an acceptance.

If you had great stats, you might have a better case for blowing off an acceptance, but with your MCAT and GPA, I'd take that acceptance and run with it. Med School's are getting tougher to get in to every year. There's a very real chance that next year you may not get in at all. Good luck with whatever you decide. Personally, if I was accepted anywhere (and with you applying to so few places, I'm assuming that you like the places), I'd take it.

 

[Mulletfluf]

If you decide to work rather than go to school you will be 1 year out of school. I would imagine that in one year out of school your study skills would atrophy somewhat. Basic science knowledge would fade and you would be in a tighter spot should you have to retake the MCAT down the line. Those are all potential problems.

The only reasons I would choose work over school are (in no particular order): 1) you will not be happy at that medical school. 2) inclusion in something HUGE - be it a groundbreaking paper, patient, etc - im talking Dean Kamen dialysis machine huge 3) health issues.

My two cents.

 

[nrddct]

Why throw away a acceptance? Also how do you know your only gonna lose a year? What if you have apply for 2 cycles...or 3 cycles? Getting into med school is a crap shoot and you said you definately want to be a doctor, so I would just go.

BTW mcat scores are only good for 3years. It'll be a real hassle to have to brush up on the basic sciences again when one has a perfectly good score thats out of date. Also its expected that an applicant performs equally or better than thier previous scores. The stakes get higher everytime one has to reapply.

 

[shoal]

Why throw away a acceptance? Also how do you know your only gonna lose a year? What if you have apply for 2 cycles...or 3 cycles? Getting into med school is a crap shoot and you said you definately want to be a doctor, so I would just go.

BTW mcat scores are only good for 3years. It'll be a real hassle to have to brush up on the basic sciences again when one has a perfectly good score thats out of date. Also its expected that an applicant performs equally or better than thier previous scores. The stakes get higher everytime one has to reapply.

I agree. My thought right now if I went the route of not accepting the offer was to apply again to this school this application year (just one school) - while improving my clinical experience/volunteering over the next year in which time I would apply for 2008. Which should give me significantly better chances especially wih more schools added.

My main arguement right now against taking the spot is that I have a great opportunity to learn some things, to experience life, and to keep my word. I have never quit something early (i.e withdrawn from a course, races, sports etc) -- so this is quite a new experience I suppose.

ahhh, well. Seems like most people here think take it.
such a difficult decision.

 

[4paw]

Hi Shoal -

You're getting good advice so far. I picked up on something you said that i haven't seen addressed. You were saying that you feel the school is 'toying' with you - that they put you through this rigmarole, and they're not treating you with the respect of open and timely communication. That sucks, and I could imagine not wanting to go to a school that works in those red-tapey ways. If you do decide to go, make sure you write a nasty poem to them that you flush down the toilet, or shout to the sky about what jerks they are, or something you can do for yourself. You *can* walk in with dignity in August, just remember that, and you also have the opportunity to take this unfinished business about not being treated seriously, not being listened to, not being responded to, and sort out what all that does, and how those feelings are playing into this huge decision to turn down a med school spot. and sometimes, med schools deserve to be turned down - if you don't feel that they are the school you want to go to, then don't go! those interviews are supposed to be two-way situations, and that should be o.k. for the next year's cycle. and, very very very risky.

anyways, i'm not making sense, i'm day two of quitting smoking. actually, i know that some sense is coming through, but i'm probably saying more than i should, and not as delicately as possible. so i'll wrap up now. all the best.

 

[shoal]

Hi Shoal -

You're getting good advice so far. I picked up on something you said that i haven't seen addressed. You were saying that you feel the school is 'toying' with you - that they put you through this rigmarole, and they're not treating you with the respect of open and timely communication. That sucks, and I could imagine not wanting to go to a school that works in those red-tapey ways. If you do decide to go, make sure you write a nasty poem to them that you flush down the toilet, or shout to the sky about what jerks they are, or something you can do for yourself. You *can* walk in with dignity in August, just remember that, and you also have the opportunity to take this unfinished business about not being treated seriously, not being listened to, not being responded to, and sort out what all that does, and how those feelings are playing into this huge decision to turn down a med school spot. and sometimes, med schools deserve to be turned down - if you don't feel that they are the school you want to go to, then don't go! those interviews are supposed to be two-way situations, and that should be o.k. for the next year's cycle. and, very very very risky.

anyways, i'm not making sense, i'm day two of quitting smoking. actually, i know that some sense is coming through, but i'm probably saying more than i should, and not as delicately as possible. so i'll wrap up now. all the best.

I apperciate the comments 4paw. I'm glad someone hit on this point. As previously stated this is not as straight forward as some posters have elluded. This is not a purely matter of going to medical school. Going to medical school will be achieved. Its not a purely matter of expense, hassle, or time. Emotion/Ego, however, as much as I would like to say that I've above feelings -- certainly play a role. I have pointed this out in quite a few posts on this thread. Will I regret taking the offer under the circumstances?

How will it effect my outlook while I am attending... All of the advice above is good ways to get through it. As you can imagine, what my initial reaction was to recieving such a letter denying my deferment request. I comtemplated ways to get a deferment - chop of a limb and practice my suturing abilities. But it doesn't seem like there are any ways out of this decision.

 

[4paw]

Shoal -

I'm not sure what the decision is turning out to be. However, I happen to know personally that when feelings and ego and all are wrapped up in a decision (given that you've never 'quit' a job before, etc.) , it is awesome to get a bit of support. Find a therapist, for a couple sessions leading up to making one of the biggest decisions to date. get some support for that! and you may find yourself doing all sorts of crazy poem-writing, and body expressing, and whatever it takes to make a decision from your heart - with whatever consequences - harder to get into med school in the future and not quitting a job, or going to med school now and having quit. all the best.

 

[ShyRem]

shoal, have you thought about going and talking to your boss? Given that you *really* don't want to quit your job, but this opportunity is pretty big... well... I don't know your bosses, but some can be good sounding boards. Especially when it's an opportunity that is hard to turn down and you would love to stay. They might have advice for you, be willing to write you a stellar letter, make some phone calls, etc.

 

[fredwise]

It seems clear that you want to take the job. So do that. The money should be irrelevant, but the fact that you're using it as a reason shows what you really want to do.

Can you volunteer while you're working? A compromise might be to take the job and promise yourself you'll get more clinical experience to improve that aspect of your application. Be very diplomatic with the school you got into. Maybe they'll readmit you. If they hold a grudge, then that's a bad sign about the school. Don't give up an opportunity you want and start med school at a place you resent.

 

[OSUdoc08]

So my deferment request was denied, my appeal for my deferment was denied as well. I ended up moving due to a job which was better than my other opportunity and started a few days before the offer was extended (which by the way was past the timeframe the school stated (6-8 weeks). And far beyond the timeline the student tour guides stated (2-3 weeks). So I figured I was going to be waitlisted at best. So I took an excellent job in
Biomedical research. The opportunities are excellent for great exposure, patents, and exposure to device design and development. Plus I am in beautiful Colorado now, where I can enjoy myself once without attending school – or worrying about money.

Even with my slightly above average stats, I only was extended one interview – which ended up in an acceptance. There are numerous reasons why it is not beneficial for me to start this August including

1. Cost – it’ll cost me roughly $14,000 – yes $14,000 to move home early since I signed a contract requiring a one year commitment otherwise lose lease, moving costs, signing bonuses etc.

2. Time before school where I can enjoy myself, relax and not have to worry about repaying immense school loans and cost

3. Principle – The school has been above and beyond any of my requests and essentially seems like it has been toying with me. After my first request for deferment it took 3 weeks for a response. After my appeal, 2 weeks, I had an additional request for documentation that was needed to verify my claims. I provided promptly, thinking that this must be good news. After another 2 weeks, (a month later – the denial comes in my front door). So all and all, the process took 2 months, and 30-40 hours revising and editing letters which ended up doing nothing.

These reasons are not in any particular order.

I know the pros, are that the process is a crapshoot, and I’ve been offered an acceptance and many people would jump on it – but I feel I am missing a huge opportunity to learn while I am young enough to gain experience in the business world – that will be economically unfeasible as a future physician with 200k in loans.

I want to reapply – but I don’t know if my outcome will be any better than this application year – since I have been in limbo – working, wondering about acceptances that I haven’t done much to further my application.

So what would you do?
How long is a MCAT score good for? (3 years is my understanding) I took it in April 05, would that be good to matriculate in 08? So no application this year, but next?

Thanks-

Tired, worried and all too stressed out lowly pre-med graduate.

Quit your dead end job and go to medical school.

Reapplying means you'll be wasting another year of your life.

 

[LizzyM]

Think of this as deferred compensation. If you start in August 2006 you'll be out and earning a paycheck money in July 2010 and on a track to earn big money starting in 2016 (assuming 4 years med school, 3 year residency, 3 year fellowship, YMMV). If you delay a year, you'll make chicken scratch (fellow's stipend) in 2016-17. Does the money earned in 2006-07 (minus cash expended to reapply) exceed the potential increased earning in 2016-17?

You have an offer of med school admission. It can not be deferred. Your boss would have to be a jerk to tell you that your employment with him is more important than continuing your education.

People quit jobs all the time to go back to school. Even with work & clinical experience on your application next year, you are not a shoo-in for admission. Do you want to take a chance of applying in summer 2006 and summer 2007??

 

[shoal]

Thanks everyone thus far who posted. These are all excellent comments. I believe I will have to speak with my boss regarding my situation. Waiting until class begins won't effect anything that cannot be dealt with. If I am let go, then the relatively small amount of loss of income is inconsquential. A previous poster stated that I should get out of my "dead end job". I assure you this job is not dead end. I am not counting cells or something as trivial as that. I attended a good engineering university and interned for 2 1/2 years. So that argument is not valid.

So when my boss comes back in town from his business trip, I guess I talk to him.

Secondly, I certainly won't be wasting my life. I have yet to waste any time in my life, and I don't plan on wasting time. The issue of wasting time could be attending medical school this round. It completely eliminates chances to travel, to gain work experience, to live on my own, to enjoy the outdoors. The next 4-8 years seem to be quite a committment, and I have no problem committing, but to commit before realization of what has been given up is foolish. A year while being young, being able and free to enjoy simple things such as camping, hiking, biking, skiing etc... whenever I want. After medical school -- I don't see these as being possible until 10 years down the road.

So I need to scream again

 

[nrddct]

I just have to say that your med school gave you the benefit of the doubt that you were qualified to be in their class even though you were lacking in clinical experience. I guess I don't understand why you would want to backtrack. Applicants usually do clinical experiences so it'll look good on thier apps and to make sure thats the path they want to lead. So in a way your ahead of the game b/c you didn't have to jump through the hoops set by the adcom gods. You can gain plenty of clinical experience your 3rd/4th year.

Even though you said you want to be a doctor, it seems that the timing is not right in your life. Regardless, I would take the seat b/c life is so uncertain. My #1 choice interviewed me three times and placed me on the waitlist twice so I know what you mean by schools "toying" around. If my #1 decides to extend an offer, I'll still consider them. Money is irrelevant right now. Unless you think its ABSOLUTELY necessary you defer a year so you will feel complete, go to med school. Just keep in mind all the uncertainties that are out of your control in the application process and the fact that you will be "flagged" as a reapplicant who turned down an offer.

 

[mshheaddoc]

There is some great advice on this thread. LizzyM brings some great perspective to this battle. With that said, I have to say, that if I were you, I'd go with my heart. If you are really interested in the research, then go for it but as long as you know the risks and are willing to take them. The risks being that you might not get an acceptance right off the bat next year. You are going to have to apply to MORE places next year, which probably will offset part of that "cost analysis" which you made. [Additionally as someone noted, your cost analysis is a little off. You shouldn't really be including sunk costs. I know that people think of that as "cost" but honestly, its heat out of the door in winter. You can do anything about it. ]

Don't think about the money, that is IRRELEVANT at this point. Think about med school. Do you really like this school? Can you see yourself happy there for 4 years? or will this whole incident make your a bitter person? As you stated before, you probably will be jaded. And honestly if you think you will be miserable because you got your heart set on this, then go for your heart.

There will always be the chance of medicine out there. I know alot of people have stated its hard to get in. Sure. It is. Its also hard to go against the grain. I can honestly say, if I were you, I probably would take the research. Then reapply next year or the year after or the year after.

I'm a firm believer that things happened for a reason and YOU are the only one that can make things happen. You got this research for a reason, but then again you ALSO got OFF a waitlist for a reason. It is one of the more difficult choices a pre-med has to make.


LizzyM - is it a huge red flag if you turn down a waitlist position due to current commitments?

 

[shoal]

I was not accepted off a waitlist. I was offered a spot directly. I must have muddled this up -- but I want to clarify.

 

[mshheaddoc]

ooooh. Maybe I misread. Sorry

That does make things a little different. Although I do have to say that I don't agree with how the application process goes through, then I would probably take the position.

I understand you are in a bind, but I think waitlist is a little bit of a different decision. You had 3 months that you've known, you jumped the gun a little to early my friend. Sorry.

 

[LizzyM]

Re: attending medical school this round

It completely eliminates chances to travel, to gain work experience, to live on my own, to enjoy the outdoors. The next 4-8 years seem to be quite a committment, and I have no problem committing, but to commit before realization of what has been given up is foolish. A year while being young, being able and free to enjoy simple things such as camping, hiking, biking, skiing etc... whenever I want. After medical school -- I don't see these as being possible until 10 years down the road.

You have a very unrealistic view of medical school if you think that you will not have any chance to live on your own or enjoy physical activities, outdoor recreation, etc for 10 years! Medical School has built in vacations including the entire summer after first year, some time in late December/early January and usually a week or so in the Spring. There are also vacation times built into clinical years and residency. You need that time off to "refresh". Depending on where you go to school (is that the issue? you don't like the school that admitted you?) you can bike after classes and on weekends, ski or hike on weekends (provided that you spend some time studying each week to keep up with the workload).

 

[shoal]

Absolutely -- I jumped the gun slightly too early. So I've heard this argument from some of my friends. I moved out here not expecting to get an acceptence, and it just so happened that I did (3 days after I moved mind you). And turning down the acceptance is just like how I thought it would be. The offer just was something that was given that wasn't expected.

Thats one argument I've heard.

As well, on the question posed to Lizzy.
"Is my app Red Flagged if I reapply?"
I specifically asked the school that accepted me, the admissions director, and she said not nessecarily.

I love how admissions can be so vague and not provide any detail on anything. Just love it, while we are asked to provide details to the nth degree and still are shot down and told that it is not valid or acceptable.

From my perspective, the same kind of diligence and attention to detail should be on both sides of the street. However, I may be too idealist.

 

[mshheaddoc]

If you are willing to take that chance, then go for it.

I agree with LizzyM that you aren't really giving up all your life. I mean if you weren't in school, you aren't going to have like 8 weeks of vacation a year in a real job (and if you get that straight out of college, please let me where, b/c I applied ot the wrong places then!)

Honestly, you really don't want the hassle of moving back. I understand, but make sure you make your decisions for the right reasons. Not due to money or hassle. Which seem to be the too big issues here.

You are taking a risk here. Figure out what you want and run with it.