Degree

[DAPLAYA]

which dental degree is offered at dental schools outside of the US? is it DDS or DMD? or is another degree altogether? also when u get licensed in the US, which US degree (DDS or DMD)does ur internation degree get converted into? thanks everyone

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[DesiDentist]

since majority of the schools outside the US don't require an undergraduate education before pursuing dental school the main degree that is offered is the B.D.S (Bachelors of Dental Surgery) this degree does not get converted to anything in the US.

If you want to practice in the US you need to "re-do" 2-3 years of school at a participating school. When you graduate the school will determine if you get a D.M.D. or a D.D.S.. I know the following schools have a program for international graduates:

UPENN (DMD)
NOVA (DMD)
Tufts (?)
NYU (DDS)

So, unfortunately you can not practice in the US without going back to school for at least 2-3 years. Hope this helps.

DesiDentist

 

[s.mutans]

Also, This is the last year anyone will be able to be an "advanced standing" student.

So any practicing dentists from other countries will have to start from scratch.

 

[DesiDentist]

wow, streptococcus, where did you get this information. By saying, " starting from scratch" does that mean starting as a D1 or going back and taking the basic prerequisites like bio, orgo, and chem?

I would be interested to know where you got that information. I wonder why schools are doing this..since their is a huge need of dentists right now. However, I can see that coming. They might increase the amount of seats though for all of us.

Look forward to your reply.

DesiDentist

"Thank God, I'm not a foreign trained dentist."

 

[s.mutans]

They would have to enroll into the program starting D1.

My cousin is a Dentist from the Philippines and he is in the process of applying this year to an advanced standing, international student program. He is using all his resources to apply. Although he is having difficulty immigrating and other hindrances are in play.

This was confirmed by UCSF Admissions Officer Barbra Richardson. She mentioned that most International Programs do not have the same "Scientific Base" courses as you previously mentioned. They go directly into Clinical Settings after their graduation from a Bachelors equivelance here.

With the workload from the first two years of dental or even medical school, I might be over exagerating by saying "from scratch". But It is very difficult to "hit the books" once you have been practicing for 10 years. The dentist that works for us practiced for over 10 years in India and she really thought this protocol change is ridiculous because of the great need. I myself agree with you there Desi.

desi, I wanted to know about UW Dental school? Would you know anything about the program. I heard that it was a really great research oriented school and very difficult to get in. I have also heard that it was very competitive? Any info would be appreciated. Please PM me I should probably put this in another Post!

 

[groundhog]

s.mutans,
Do all US dental schools that have advanced standing programs for foreign trained dentists plan to phase out those programs starting next year?

If that is true, it could be the beginning of mandatory completeion of a post grad US GPR/AEGD program in order to become licensed in the US. Foreign trained dentists would then have to compete for the available slots with the US dental school graduates like foreign trained physicians now have to compete with US medical school graduates for US residency slots.

 

[s.mutans]

I wish I knew the answer to that! I will be back with the info.

 

[gryffindor]

Luminous, I wouldn't worry about dentists from other countries coming over and taking over the US dental job market. The ADA keeps tight regulations on who can practice dentistry here and right now, you have to earn a DDS/DMD from an American school in order to even be able to take the licensing exams.

Just because there is a "great need" for dentists in the US doesn't mean we will let down our standards and allow foreign-trained dentists who graduate from a non-ADA accredited dental school come over to the US and set up shop. I have seen now on several occasions examples of "Russian dentistry" on young immigrant children as well as adults that do not follow the basic priniciples we hold our dentists to in the US (for example, cleaning and shaping and filling ALL the roots of a molar when doing a root canal). The patient now has to spend more time and money getting the dental work fixed because it wasn't done right in the first place and now there is pain or some problem. (Not to pick on Russian dentists, that is just the example I've seen so far). I'm sure there are capable foreign dentists out there, but the international dentists in the foreign-dental training program at my school are not that much faster or more superb in clinic than the rest of us. It's not a bad idea to make them train with us. It protects the public since these dentists will be held to the same standards as an American trained dentist when they are out in the community. By training in a US school, they can cover their bases and make sure they know what is expected of them.

 

[DesiDentist]

s.mutans,

Yes, the University of Washington is one of the most competitive, if not the THE most competitive school to gain admission to. It gets probably the most funding from government/NIH resources out of all the dental schools in the country. As an R1 institution it is very close to research and holds a strong emphasis on research. However, unlike other schools I believe the UW not only is strong in research but also clinical aspects of dentistry. The board pass rate is 99.5% average for the class.

the only negative thing I can say about this program is that it is very "number" oriented. The DAT scores are ridiculously high and it seems from my experience (my interview) numbers (GPA/DAT) mean more than anything else including personality, experience, and desire to go into dentistry.

Hope this helps.

DesiDentist

 

[Stanford Fencer]

The UCSF School of Dentistry has long been the largest recipient of NIH funding among all dental schools, receiving 47 awards in 2001 for a total of $17.6 million. Other dental schools in the top five are the following: University of Washington ($11.9 million/33 awards); University of Michigan ($9.6 million/43 awards), University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill ($9.2 million/28 awards), and University of Pennsylvania ($8.9 million/37 awards).

http://pub.ucsf.edu/today/news.php?news_id=200205023

 

[DesiDentist]

Thanks Stanford,

That article was enlightning.

DesiDentist

 

[Rampart]

In Canada (that's right, your frigid but friendly neighbor to the north) the degree depends on which school you go to. Some schools offer a DDS (U Alberta, U Toronto, U Sask, some others) but some offer DMD (U Manitoba is the only one I can think of right now).

After finishing your degree you have the choice to right both the Canadian dental exam ($1100) or the American Exam (something like $135 part one and $165 part two). There are test centers in Canada to write both.

I don't really think you have to worry to much about Canadian dentists overrunning the states though. Most of the schools only accept 30-35 students, but some in Ontario accept more than that. I would say that probably five to ten percent of Canadian Dentists end up in the States because pay is better and taxes are generally lower. The higher quality of living and public services in Canada seems to retain the rest despite the weather and the taxes.

As far as foreign students going to Canadian dental schools, there is a limited take of 1-2 a year, and scores must be very competitive to gain admittance. Also the American DAT does not count in Canada because there is no manual dexterity component. There is also a tuition hike levied against foreign students. I think 1st year is 55K Canadian (like 37k American) and then slightly less for the following 3.

American Dental schools will accept students who have done their bachelors in Canada. My orthodontists nephew was rejected from all the western Canadian dental schools but ended up getting admitted to some dental school in the eastern states (I don't know which one).

So I guess there are some foreigners among you after.... (quick paw, git the gunn. I'm a gunna git me on of 'em beaver lovn' canajuns)

Rampart

 

[sallyubc]

Rampart,
I am a Canadian Applicant, do you think I have a chance in case western, Upenn, tufts, or temple university.
I am very nervous, i haven't recieved anything from Canadian or American univeristies but that is understandable since I haven't got my DAT scores yet...

Do you think I have a hope to get in this year guys??

S.

 

[Rampart]

Hey Sally.

When did you write your DAT? This fall? What type of GPA?
The Canadian schools won't start sending anything a the fall DAT marks are in. I've gotten a couple of letters from Canadian schools that were basically deadline schedules (when to have official transcript in by, DAT scores in by etc.)

The good thing is that the Canadian DAT counts in the states, the bad thing is that they don't look at the same things we do. Canadian schools tend to focus more on manual dexterity/PAT/Reading for DAT scores and then let your GPA tell them about your academic standing. Several Canadian schools don't even consider the Science part of the DAT. The US doesn't care about Manual, but get good science marks since they care about that part and it's the easiest part of the DAT to do well on.

Another thing is that American schools are more likely to want you to have a bachelors first. I guess a plus is that because the states admit so many more dental students the required marks are a little lower, at Ualberta a 7.6 was the lowest admitted mark, and thats a little better than 3.5 once converted to 4 scale. I think alot of US schools will admit with a prereq GPA that low, even though Canadian schools won't.

It's hard to tell without DAT scores GPA etc. But if you are ~3.5+ w/ good DAT scores you should be good to go in the US. Remember that they will expect a little more from you than they do from US citizens because if let you in you will be taking one of thier spots away. You will still have to perform above average for that particular school. But the UAlberta avg admittance on 4 scale is 3.79, so a below average candidate for a school like this may still be an above average candidate for some US schools (Like my ortho's nephew).

I (hoping) would like to go to Ualberta or Umanitoba. I just need a better manual score: 18=ouch. My equilateral triangle peg end looked more like an isosceles triangle. I guess there is always next year.


DAT bio/chem/pat/reading/manual : 26/21/21/24/18

Rampart

 

[Rampart]

Well, I tried to find admission stats to other Canadian schools. Didn't come up with much though.

The lowest GPA given an interview at U Toronto last year was 3.5, there were 196 interviews.

The thing that sucks about going to school in the US is the cost. You have to pay foreign student tuition + exchange rate.

What are the admssion averages for the "ivy league" schools? I've haven't considered going to school outside of Canada. I suppose it would be smart to apply to some of them in case I don't get admited in Canada.

Rampart