Quantcast

Delayed STEP 3 and applying to fellowship

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

GoSpursGo

SDN Chief Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
36,008
Reaction score
15,080
You certainly won’t be the only one with this problem. As long as your scores on steps 1 and 2 were solid I wouldn’t worry about it.
 

CalmAndCollected

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Messages
104
Reaction score
78
You certainly won’t be the only one with this problem. As long as your scores on steps 1 and 2 were solid I wouldn’t worry about it.
I wouldn’t be so assuming. Most people take Step 3 in their PGY1 year, and OP is starting PGY3 in about month. Programs might wonder why he would even wait that long, and I would assume a good majority of applying PGY3 would have already taken it.
 

GoSpursGo

SDN Chief Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
36,008
Reaction score
15,080
I wouldn’t be so assuming. Most people take Step 3 in their PGY1 year, and OP is starting PGY3 in about month. Programs might wonder why he would even wait that long, and I would assume a good majority of applying PGY3 would have already taken it.
I mean fair enough, and I'm aware of the normal timeline, but the OP also can't do anything about it.

If the OP is coming from a community program that doesn't frequently match residents into competitive specialties, or if his/her step 1/2 scores are mediocre, then not having a chance to crush step 3 is unfortunate. But it's just one data point.
 

MudPhud20XX

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
1,347
Reaction score
193
Do not take step 3 lightly. Study really hard until August.
 

Raryn

Infernal Internist / Enigmatic Endocrinologist
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
8,753
Reaction score
8,926
You certainly won’t be the only one with this problem. As long as your scores on steps 1 and 2 were solid I wouldn’t worry about it.
This depends on where he's trying to be.

At least some states will require a permanent license before PGY4+ - California for example. And while they're waiving some timeline stuff due to covid, I don't see programs wanting to bank on that. So if I were a fellowship program in CA, I wouldn't consider anyone without Step 3 previously passed - there would be a non-zero chance they literally wouldn't be legally allowed to work in the state.
 

GoSpursGo

SDN Chief Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
36,008
Reaction score
15,080
This depends on where he's trying to be.

At least some states will require a permanent license before PGY4+ - California for example. And while they're waiving some timeline stuff due to covid, I don't see programs wanting to bank on that. So if I were a fellowship program in CA, I wouldn't consider anyone without Step 3 previously passed - there would be a non-zero chance they literally wouldn't be legally allowed to work in the state.
I could definitely be wrong here, but I thought that an overwhelming majority of IM grads from strong programs (ie those where residents go for competitive specialties) pass step 3 without breaking a sweat, meaning that whenever testing centers open up again the OP is very likely to pass. So I really have a hard time believing that it's going to make or break the OP if he had decent step 1/2 scores.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

rokshana

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
6,215
I could definitely be wrong here, but I thought that an overwhelming majority of IM grads from strong programs (ie those where residents go for competitive specialties) pass step 3 without breaking a sweat, meaning that whenever testing centers open up again the OP is very likely to pass. So I really have a hard time believing that it's going to make or break the OP if he had decent step 1/2 scores.
It’s a licensing requirement in Cali, so yes, I can see how it would be a problem.
 

GoSpursGo

SDN Chief Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
36,008
Reaction score
15,080
It’s a licensing requirement in Cali, so yes, I can see how it would be a problem.
1) Did the OP say he’s applying to CA and I just missed it?
2) I never said it wouldn’t be a problem eventually, just that I don’t think prospective fellowship programs will see that as an app-killer when determining interviews.
3) Based on posting history, the OP had very strong step 1/2 scores. So imagining that the OP will suddenly have issues passing what is generally the easiest licensing exam, particularly in IM, seems wholly unfounded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

Gastrapathy

I’m just here so I don’t get fined
Lifetime Donor
15+ Year Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
5,582
Reaction score
5,200
@GoSpursGo Notice that the IM folks are less confident. Fellowships are small so there may be some that won’t take the risk. It’s unprecedented but the OPs concerns aren’t entirely invalid. It does depend a little on the fellowship. The highly competitive ones need reasons to screen out applications and they may well have automatic filters set for this.

That said, the only option would be a Chief year and that’s a big price to pay so I think he should go for it.
 

rokshana

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2004
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
6,215
1) Did the OP say he’s applying to CA and I just missed it?
2) I never said it wouldn’t be a problem eventually, just that I don’t think prospective fellowship programs will see that as an app-killer when determining interviews.
3) Based on posting history, the OP had very strong step 1/2 scores. So imagining that the OP will suddenly have issues passing what is generally the easiest licensing exam, particularly in IM, seems wholly unfounded.

No, but he didn’t say he wasn’t...and probably depends on what he is applying to...GI? Probably will allow programs to filter him out...nephrology...probably not.
 

Raryn

Infernal Internist / Enigmatic Endocrinologist
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
8,753
Reaction score
8,926
1) Did the OP say he’s applying to CA and I just missed it?
2) I never said it wouldn’t be a problem eventually, just that I don’t think prospective fellowship programs will see that as an app-killer when determining interviews.
3) Based on posting history, the OP had very strong step 1/2 scores. So imagining that the OP will suddenly have issues passing what is generally the easiest licensing exam, particularly in IM, seems wholly unfounded.

My point was simply this:

Some states require people PGY4+ to have a permanent license. CA was just an example. Due to this, many programs explicitly require having passed step 3 as part of their screening criteria - because to do otherwise would risk matching someone who cannot start. There have been anecdotes of people who match programs that require step 3 then having their match rescinded when they don't pass it before residency graduation on this very forum.

OP is *probably* fine, but it may limit their fellowship prospect some, because I would promise you some programs will continue to explicitly require step 3 - and thus their application may be filtered out from those specific programs. Nothing to do about it now though - just apply (perhaps slightly more broadly than one would have previously) and hope for the best.
 

GoSpursGo

SDN Chief Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
36,008
Reaction score
15,080
@GoSpursGo Notice that the IM folks are less confident.
Fair enough. I'm really surprised that this might be held against the OP, particularly given his/her prior step scores and the exceptional circumstances. But y'all would know better than me.

As I think we're all in agreement about, I don't think there's anything to be done given the OP's current situation.
 

NotAProgDirector

Pastafarians Unite!
Staff member
Volunteer Staff
15+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Messages
9,719
Reaction score
12,523
The situation is clearly in flux. My state and institution have strict rules. They also both have suspended all of these rules. The state is currently granting licenses to people who, by statute, don't qualify.

I agree there's nothing the OP can do but apply.
 

Nespresso

Full Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2020
Messages
132
Reaction score
114
Hi all,

I am a PGY2 preparing to apply to fellowship in a moderately competitive specialty after IM residency

I put off taking STEP 3 until the end of the spring due to some scheduling issues. Unfortunately, my test was recently canceled (due to the random cancellations Prometric is doing due to COVID) and there are no current test dates available in my area until the end of August.

Will not having taken step 3 by the time fellowship applications are released to programs appear as a red flag? I do not anticipate any issues passing the test itself.

I know these are strange times, and I would appreciate any opinions or words of wisdom you guys may have on this!

A legitimate concern and I actually know a lot of people in your situation. I asked a competitive program (GI) and they responded as if they had no idea that Step exam delays were affecting Step 3 and fellowship applications. It was a positive response in that they are going to keep it in mind when selecting applicants to interview. Some programs explicitly mention they want Step 3 scores before considering you for interviews. Some say you just need Step 3 before starting in July.
 

ID_coffee

New Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
If you fail step 3 in your intern year but then pass it in a few months, does that effect ID fellowship match? Like does it effect how many interviews they send you?
 

Raryn

Infernal Internist / Enigmatic Endocrinologist
10+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
8,753
Reaction score
8,926
If you fail step 3 in your intern year but then pass it in a few months, does that effect ID fellowship match? Like does it effect how many interviews they send you?
Probably affects it some, but not enough to be a meaningful issue. ID isn't that competitive - there's typically less applicants than positions - so they can't afford to be too picky if thats the only red flag you have.
 
Top