Demoralized and Mad - Help me reframe?

[dramadown]

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I had a rough afternoon yesterday and I'm hoping someone can help me re-frame the situation and/or offer suggestions for avoiding a repeat in the future.

I went to a med school pre-application session, offered by my university's pre-med advising office. The whole thing took about 3 hours, including driving time to and from campus. My husband came home early from work to take over with the kids and make supper. I had prepped the food and all he had to do was throw it in a pot and let it cook. He had to get one kid to soccer practice and another to PT, both within a 5 min drive of our house. The baby was well-fed and well-rested. Cake walk, I thought.

But I came home to a disaster. My husband was livid - because he hated the recipe I had left for him to make. The baby was miserable, one big kid had been on the computer for upwards of an hour (our limit is 15 mins at a time) and the other was feeling awful because his dad refused to go outside and kick the soccer ball with him. In short, he'd gotten pissed about the dinner and essentially checked out on parenting.

On top of that the meeting was filled with kids who all seemed sooooo much younger, smarter and better qualified than me. (Not to mention richer and better looking!) Questions about whether a rec letter from 2 heart surgeons was too many, about if it was ok to list every research project they've been involved in, and about how to list their multiple study abroad and medical mission experiences. I felt like a loser in comparison.

At the end of all of this it just seems hopeless. If my husband can't even keep it together for 3 hours can I really count on him to be supportive and helpful, in a real way, when my work load intensifies dramatically? Right now his attitude seems to be that childcare and housework is my problem and I'll have to figure out how to get it taken care of myself. He talks a good game but every single time I go to class or ask him to step up for some other school thing, the result is the same.

And I worry that I'm never going to have the credentials that traditional pre-med students rack up. I don't have the time for multiple undergrad research projects, medical missions, etc etc etc.

I know there's got to be another way to look at this. (One that doesn't involve divorce or a career in something besides medicine!) Any thoughts? Ideas about what I could do or think differently?

Fire away...

 

[TriagePreMed]

Lol this is stuff a 16 year old girl gets paid, so your husband is either a ***** or he acted like one because that way you give up and he won't have to deal with all that in the future.

Who cares what those young kids have done? Just crap mommy and daddy bought them. If a school chooses you, it's because you bring something to the table. Let them decide, not your insecurities.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Don't worry so much about the competition. First of all, I'm sure there was some exaggeration going on when everyone was bragging at the meeting. Two-week vacations can grow into two-month medical mission trips and washing glassware in a lab becomes participating in a research project to cure cancer. It's similar to the way fish grow every time I tell the story about catching them. Second, there's a reporting bias. Premeds are happy to brag about the good things on their applications, but they don't talk quite so loudly about the bad. Spend some time on the pre-allo forum and you'll notice that the average reported MCAT score is about a 35, while the average for med school matriculates is about a 30, meaning you could be above average and not even know it. Med schools like diversity in their classes, which means taking people from many different backgrounds, including older students such as yourself with unique experiences.

As for the issues with childcare and cooking, this bachelor really isn't qualified to give you an answer, except to warn you that things are only going to get harder in med school when you have even less time and money to spare.

 

[Juan Solo]

Well, I can't personally comment too much on being married and having kids, but being an older non-trad and having a significant other (and a dog) through undergrad, MCAT studying, work and the application process, let me say that sometimes the other person feels a bit left out from time to time. Going down this path can led the other person to feel like saying to themselves "what about me." This may or may not be your case but communication and understanding can go along way to helping out with happiness and less stress in this process. Remember, although this is your personal career, you are in this together.

Attending a pre-application session is an experience. As you have seen first hand, they are filled with a lot typical "pre-med" students or gunners as some of us will refer to some of them as. Although, some of the information that they offer at these session is a bit useful, DO NOT get discouraged about what other students are talking about or from whom their LOR's are from or which foreign country they went to do some clinical activity. Don't be hard on yourself. What matters is the quality of experience you have so that you can grow and develop essential characteristics that will help make you successful as a med student and future physician. You don't have to travel aboard to show your interest in clinical care. You also don't have to have multiple research projects or labs, rather being involved in one for a long time is way better than doing a bunch of little ones. Trust me.

If you have any other specific questions feel free to PM me and I will try and get back to you asap.

Good luck!

 

[DrMidlife]

Sorry to say it, but I think your husband is a big problem. He's throwing you under the bus, generally. At this point your actions are determining his behavior - if you let him get away with acting like a 4 year old, you give him permission to act like a 4 year old. Ask him if something is wrong with his fingers. Is the internet down? Is feeding his children not a priority? Because if he doesn't like the recipe you took the time to find for him, then he needs to be a big boy about it and mind his responsibilities. Require good loving respectful behavior. You have a right to resent what he's making you do to get him to behave well. You can choose to not take this battle on (which probably means divorce, which is not the end of the world).

Traditional premeds should be as interesting to you as mosquitoes. Just one time take a look at the discussions in the pre-allo forum, see how embarrassing they are, and then never go back.

IMHO you need mentors you can talk to in person. Get a reality check on your perceptions. This is not criticism - you are under the emotional control of your ovaries for quite a while yet. (Look forward to when they stop controlling you.)

Best of luck to you.

 

[ChE04]

On top of that the meeting was filled with kids who all seemed sooooo much younger, smarter and better qualified than me. (Not to mention richer and better looking!) Questions about whether a rec letter from 2 heart surgeons was too many, about if it was ok to list every research project they've been involved in, and about how to list their multiple study abroad and medical mission experiences. I felt like a loser in comparison.

This is pretty typical, I wouldn't let it get you down. Person A had letters form 2 heart surgeons (not that impressive, by the way), Person B had multiple research projects (or perhaps cleaned glassware in a couple of different labs?), and Person C did study abroad. It's easy to slide into the "oh my god I'm so under qualified" line of thinking, but keep in mind that those are aspects of 3 different applications. You probably won't have the credentials of some of the more "motivated" non-trads, but I'm sure you have your own strengths that you can express on your application.

Also, sounds like your husband needs to man up. You should talk to him about this and let him know your expectations.

 

[ChE04]

Sorry to say it, but I think your husband is a big problem. He's throwing you under the bus, generally. At this point your actions are determining his behavior - if you let him get away with acting like a 4 year old, you give him permission to act like a 4 year old. Ask him if something is wrong with his fingers. Is the internet down? Is feeding his children not a priority? Because if he doesn't like the recipe you took the time to find for him, then he needs to be a big boy about it and mind his responsibilities. Require good loving respectful behavior. You have a right to resent what he's making you do to get him to behave well. You can choose to not take this battle on (which probably means divorce, which is not the end of the world).

Traditional premeds should be as interesting to you as mosquitoes. Just one time take a look at the discussions in the pre-allo forum, see how embarrassing they are, and then never go back.

IMHO you need mentors you can talk to in person. Get a reality check on your perceptions. This is not criticism - you are under the emotional control of your ovaries for quite a while yet. (Look forward to when they stop controlling you.)

Best of luck to you.

Probably a bit soon to be mentioning divorce, don't you think?

 

[Goro]

STRONGLY suggest marriage AND family counseling. Medical school is a crucible, and you need to know that your family has your back on this, because for the four years of school, your life will be something like this:
Family member: "what are you doing"
You: "Studying".

I've seen tons of students flame out of medical school , not because they couldn't handle the curriculum, but because family issues and life intruded onto their ability to study.
So I see a train wreck waiting for you unless you know that your family is with you 100%. If your husband has 1950s attitudes about your role in the marriagem, then there's a problem.

Do NOT compare yourself to all the pre-meds...non-traditional students such as youself bring a lot to the medical table...lots of superior things like time-mgt, maturity, empathy, and realistic attitudes.

I've had students who were single moms, or had small children while thier husbands were awya at school, or who even had children while they were in medical school.

The only credentials you need are evidence that you can handle a medical school curriculum, and altruism.

It's doable.

Keep in mind that DOP programs will be far more welcoming of a student like you than your typcial MD program. Nursing or PA might be an option.

I .

At the end of all of this it just seems hopeless. If my husband can't even keep it together for 3 hours can I really count on him to be supportive and helpful, in a real way, when my work load intensifies dramatically? Right now his attitude seems to be that childcare and housework is my problem and I'll have to figure out how to get it taken care of myself. He talks a good game but every single time I go to class or ask him to step up for some other school thing, the result is the same.

And I worry that I'm never going to have the credentials that traditional pre-med students rack up. I don't have the time for multiple undergrad research projects, medical missions, etc etc etc.

I know there's got to be another way to look at this. (One that doesn't involve divorce or a career in something besides medicine!) Any thoughts? Ideas about what I could do or think differently?

Fire away...

 

[LaughingMan]

Probably a bit soon to be mentioning divorce, don't you think?

+1,

Mentioning a divorce??
😕😕😕

 

[pdxhopeful]

Probably a bit soon to be mentioning divorce, don't you think?

Yes and no. This is a single incident, but good grief... All the OP asked of her husband was to hold down the fort for 3-4 hours, something I was capable of when I started babysitting at 13. It's worrisome.

There needs to be some frank talk here about expectations and goals and division of responsibility. I hope that is enough for her husband to get a clue. If it's not though, she will be in the position of having to decide whether staying married or a career in medicine is her priority, because I can't see her making it with an unsupportive, sabotaging spouse.

 

[Shinken]

.....But I came home to a disaster.....On top of that the meeting was filled with kids who all seemed sooooo much younger, smarter and better qualified than me. ....And I worry that I'm never going to have the credentials that traditional pre-med students rack up. I don't have the time for multiple undergrad research projects, medical missions, etc etc etc.

I know there's got to be another way to look at this...

Don't let your feelings of not being adequate enough for med school get you down. We all have those feelings, even those "younger, smarter, and better qualified" pre-meds have those feelings (otherwise, why do you think they attended that session and asked those questions?). I was also in a similar situation and managed to do quite well against those younger, smarter kids.

As far as the issue with your husband, from the perspective of a working dad, it's difficult for many men to get the hang of being a stay-at-home dad and handle kids, dinner, etc. We're not used to that, we're not skilled at that, but it's a skill that can be learned. Your husband, if he's open to it, will eventually get the hang of it, and likely end up loving being able to bond with the kids.

 

[QofQuimica]

Agree with the others that you should start by having an honest discussion with your husband, because what he's doing is pretty darn passive aggressive. But try to give him the benefit of the doubt. He probably has some legitimate concerns (financial worries, fear of change, social considerations, etc), and if so, he deserves an opportunity to air them out and have you address his concerns. Once you know what's worrying him, you'll be in a better position to figure out how the two of you are going to accommodate the major life changes that you going to medical school will entail. At the other extreme, it's also possible that he's basically going to give you an ultimatum where you have to choose between him and med school. If that happens, it would be unfortunate, but then you would have a tough decision. Some will tell you to follow your dreams and forget him, while others will tell you to stay because your family is more important than you being a doctor is. Hopefully it won't come to this. Again, though, you won't know where the two of you stand until you and he have some serious heart to hearts.

Concerning the premed meeting, stop going to them. You're not a trad, and trad premed clubs or premed advisors often won't be able to help you. You're better off using SDN and/or calling the admissions office of your state med school for admissions advice. At least those are resources with people who have experience with an applicant like you. SDN can also provide you with some moral support, and that's important too.

 

[ChE04]

Yes and no. This is a single incident, but good grief... All the OP asked of her husband was to hold down the fort for 3-4 hours, something I was capable of when I started babysitting at 13. It's worrisome.

There needs to be some frank talk here about expectations and goals and division of responsibility. I hope that is enough for her husband to get a clue. If it's not though, she will be in the position of having to decide whether staying married or a career in medicine is her priority, because I can't see her making it with an unsupportive, sabotaging spouse.

It seems to me that the initial reflex should be to talk to each other, with divorce not even on the table until way down the road after multiple failures. From one post we are bringing up divorce? Kind of sad how casually we can just throw that concept around.

I agree that the husband dropped the ball in a big way here. But I think we need to give him (and their relationship) the benefit of the doubt seeing as we have literally only read 2 short paragraphs about him, penned in frustration.

 

[DrMidlife]

Consider that there is a substantial, spacious divide between saying something would "not be the end of the world" and recommending it. Shame on me for not mentioning counseling, but shame on y'all for shaming the eventual possibility of divorce. This woman is suffering and her husband is evidently an ass.

 

[Jas1360]

My first question is what kind of job does your husband currently have? Is he fully supporting the family financially? Will he have to continue to do so whole you attended medical school or would he be able to cut back?

Part of the problem is that both of you are feeling a lot of stress and a lot of pressure. He probably thinks that if all else fails he will need to keep the family afloat on his income so he wants to help you but he wants to be a good worker and maintain his job.

You want to be a good student and you have most of the parenting in your court because he sees your class schedule as fewer hours and more flexible. He probably felt like he went way out of his way to leave work early and then he poorly handled a frustrating situation. You came home after a meeting that made you feel inadequate only to face a situation that you feel was preventable. Frankly, you are currently better at handling all the kids because you have more practice. He can get better but it will take him time to learn how to juggle and he will have to learn his own way because your way may not work for him.

The way I see it, you both had bad days and you took it out on each other. You are both trying to do good things but you both felt like the other person was being unreasonable and while your feelings were not originally directed towards each other they became inflamed by each others negative attitudes at the moment.

I agree that talking to each other and counseling is in order. You can do this but you will have to be a team.

 

[dramadown]

You all are making my day! Thanks so much for the kind words and the laughs.

Counseling: Been there, done that. My husband hates it and I think he'd go to court be for he'd go back to counseling.

He's a professor, in a tenure track gig. He's got a lot of flexibility, but he "needs" to work an 8-5 sort of day. Because that's what he thinks works best for him. He's super stressed about work, but I honestly think a lot of it is his own doing.

I've been at home with kids since the year after we got married. I put my education and career on hold to allow him the opportunity to move around the country and world for career advancement. I don't regret that, but damnit, I want a turn too! The idea has always been that when we landed somewhere for good I'd go back to school and launch myself. I'm learning that its harder and harder to get the see-saw to come back down, once its been stuck in one position for so long... a lot of inertia.

Yesterday wasn't an isolated event, by any means. I wasn't at all mean about it though. Just told him that dinner was up to him, took the baby and said I'd be happy to eat whatever he came up with, whenever. I dealt with the big kids and as soon as everyone was asleep I hit the books. He came to bed late, didn't say a word to me and barely even responded when I said goodnight. And you know, whatever. I don't have time to deal with that sort of passive aggressive bull**** - there is stuff to DO.

Someone mentioned talking directly to med school admissions offices. How exactly would I go about doing that? Do they really talk to people who cold call them? And help with application advice?

Again, thanks to you all. I'm feeling so much better - happier and more confident.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

Someone mentioned talking directly to med school admissions offices. How exactly would I go about doing that? Do they really talk to people who cold call them? And help with application advice?

Again, thanks to you all. I'm feeling so much better - happier and more confident.

For general advice on how to strengthen your application come to the nontrad forum first. If you want school-specific information, by all means call their admissions office after first checking the school's website to make sure the information you need isn't there already. Med schools need applicants, so they will be glad to answer your questions. There are also forums on SDN with threads on the application process for each school, where you'll find secondary essay prompts, interview day reviews, and other useful information.

 

[ChE04]

You all are making my day! Thanks so much for the kind words and the laughs.

Counseling: Been there, done that. My husband hates it and I think he'd go to court be for he'd go back to counseling.

He's a professor, in a tenure track gig. He's got a lot of flexibility, but he "needs" to work an 8-5 sort of day. Because that's what he thinks works best for him. He's super stressed about work, but I honestly think a lot of it is his own doing.

I've been at home with kids since the year after we got married. I put my education and career on hold to allow him the opportunity to move around the country and world for career advancement. I don't regret that, but damnit, I want a turn too! The idea has always been that when we landed somewhere for good I'd go back to school and launch myself. I'm learning that its harder and harder to get the see-saw to come back down, once its been stuck in one position for so long... a lot of inertia.

Yesterday wasn't an isolated event, by any means. I wasn't at all mean about it though. Just told him that dinner was up to him, took the baby and said I'd be happy to eat whatever he came up with, whenever. I dealt with the big kids and as soon as everyone was asleep I hit the books. He came to bed late, didn't say a word to me and barely even responded when I said goodnight. And you know, whatever. I don't have time to deal with that sort of passive aggressive bull**** - there is stuff to DO.

Someone mentioned talking directly to med school admissions offices. How exactly would I go about doing that? Do they really talk to people who cold call them? And help with application advice?

Again, thanks to you all. I'm feeling so much better - happier and more confident.

I agree with the above poster, there is lots of good general information on this site, if you can filter out the noise, which should give you a pretty good idea of what you need to do to put together a competitive application.

Should you want a more personalized, less anonymous opinion, you can call the admissions office and see if you can schedule an appointment with the dean of admissions (or equivalent) to go over your pre-med resume. He/she should be able to give you some specific guidance as to what your weak areas are, and what you can do to turn yourself into the strongest possible candidate for their particular program. Keep in mind that if you try this during an application season then they might be too busy to meet with you (now is actually a good time, I would think).

 

[Chuchunezumis]

Realistically I don't see how this is going to work out. I can't imagine going through medical school and residency with kids without getting a ton of help.

 

[Esquire]

.

 

[JourneyAgent]

I'm with Dr Midlife. Inequity is the portrayal here.

Birth Control. Then more birth control. Then the family meeting with communication of how it's gonna down for momma's sake going forward. Then give it a trial run for a time. Then prepare for the worst. Or accept the situation status quo. Or change your goals. Medicine is long and hard and why people would want to do it with 3 kids is beyond me but good luck nonetheless.

Uncompromising is a good trial run for this career. Which is...uncompromising. Your young snarky attending doesn't sympathize with your outside efforts of being supermom.

 

[sgemmell]

Realistically I don't see how this is going to work out. I can't imagine going through medical school and residency with kids without getting a ton of help.

I can't speak to residency, as I'm still a 3rd year, but it is totally possible to make it through med school as a single parent. I am a single mom of two boys - and my closest family lives over 15 hours away. It takes a LOT of time management, work and looking for resources such as day care that is available for extended hours.

 

[JourneyAgent]

I can't speak to residency, as I'm still a 3rd year, but it is totally possible to make it through med school as a single parent. I am a single mom of two boys - and my closest family lives over 15 hours away. It takes a LOT of time management, work and looking for resources such as day care that is available for extended hours.

Dude..?

We did 30 hour shifts in surgery and 24+ in OB. How did you deal with these rotations?

 

[Lys Ile Glu Leu]

You're not her husband, are you? Back to 1950 with you, esquire. Taking care of the family is not exclusively a woman's responsibility. Reasoning with someone like you is pointless. I'll go ahead and give up now.

OP - I don't know what to say. Your man seems like a bit of a spoiled chauvinist. Men, grow up and take some responsibility! You start a family, f#$@ing invest in it! Don't be a pathetic baby like these dudes. I have no problem going to school from 8-3, work from 3-midnight, and doing whatever needs to be done at home when I get there. Too tired to help? Too stressed to lend a decent hand to your partner? Priorities mixed up! If something is important to you you find the energy or you make it!

 

[sgemmell]

Dude..?

We did 30 hour shifts in surgery and 24+ in OB. How did you deal with these rotations?

I'm on a "surgery" rotation now (I put it in quotes, because I think of it more as a surgery-lite - the hours aren't nearly as long as yours - mainly because since I don't want to do surgery, I picked a site that had easier hours).

During Ob/Gyn, I just worked it out. I'm lucky my youngest son's before and after school daycare is actually his best friend's mom - so, she has really worked with me on shifts. My other son is in high school, so he's a bit easier to leave alone for extended periods.

I am considering doing ob/gyn - I will have to make adjustments when that time comes.

 

[dsoz]

For general advice on how to strengthen your application come to the nontrad forum first. If you want school-specific information, by all means call their admissions office after first checking the school's website to make sure the information you need isn't there already. Med schools need applicants, so they will be glad to answer your questions. There are also forums on SDN with threads on the application process for each school, where you'll find secondary essay prompts, interview day reviews, and other useful information.

+1

I agree with above. The school specific threads from the previous year were a HUGE help to me in answering what was going on at each school.

Also, cold calling the admissions office is another thing that helped me. They clearly stated that they DID NOT do premed counseling, but they did answer specific questions about their admissions protocol.

I also want to reiterate what someone said above. You heard that X student did this, and Y student did that, and Z student has this to offer. That is three different things from three different people. Nobody has all three X, Y, and Z. If they did, they would be applying to and getting accepted to Harvard. They are not your competition.

Remember your own strengths. Your own experiences, and your own unique qualifications. Those young kids look at you and say "she has three kids, can keep a family together, and is STILL applying to medical school? She must be SuperWoman!" What you can accomplish in a day astounds the typical traditional applicant. All they are used to deciding is what to pick up in the cafeteria to eat that day. That gives them time to do all that other stuff, but most of that time is wasted. You know how to budget time, and how to get stuff done. That is a valuable lesson to know.

BTW, it is ok to feel overwhelmed, just do it in the privacy of your home so the young kids still think you are invincible.

From a guy's perspective, your hubby needs to be more supportive. I also have been a teacher (high school) and it is not that much trouble to make dinner when I get home. My wife also works nearly full time (35 hrs a week), and she is just as tired as I am at the end of the day. Chores are divided, and we each contribute to the household. Sometimes I do more, sometimes she does. True, when it comes time to take the snow tires off the car, that is usually something I do, and putting clean sheets on the bed periodically is something she does. Both chores are valued and need to get done.

Have a little talk with the hubby. Maybe he forgot all the things that he needed to do, or he was busy, or he was distracted, or maybe he was just in a pissy mood. Whatever the problem, it won't get better without a discussion. Maybe he needed a written list. Maybe he needed to write the list himself. This is something that can be worked through, but it will require some changes from both of you, but mostly him at this point. Remind him that he was able to finish his education, and has his dream job. Now it is your turn. You sacrifices years to be the home-maker, now it is his turn to help share the load.

I do agree that it is your turn to be able to further your education. If that was the understanding and agreement at the onset, then he should be able to honor his commitment.

dsoz

 

[theseeker4]

You all are making my day! Thanks so much for the kind words and the laughs.

Counseling: Been there, done that. My husband hates it and I think he'd go to court be for he'd go back to counseling.

He's a professor, in a tenure track gig. He's got a lot of flexibility, but he "needs" to work an 8-5 sort of day. Because that's what he thinks works best for him. He's super stressed about work, but I honestly think a lot of it is his own doing.

I've been at home with kids since the year after we got married. I put my education and career on hold to allow him the opportunity to move around the country and world for career advancement. I don't regret that, but damnit, I want a turn too! The idea has always been that when we landed somewhere for good I'd go back to school and launch myself. I'm learning that its harder and harder to get the see-saw to come back down, once its been stuck in one position for so long... a lot of inertia.

Yesterday wasn't an isolated event, by any means. I wasn't at all mean about it though. Just told him that dinner was up to him, took the baby and said I'd be happy to eat whatever he came up with, whenever. I dealt with the big kids and as soon as everyone was asleep I hit the books. He came to bed late, didn't say a word to me and barely even responded when I said goodnight. And you know, whatever. I don't have time to deal with that sort of passive aggressive bull**** - there is stuff to DO.

Someone mentioned talking directly to med school admissions offices. How exactly would I go about doing that? Do they really talk to people who cold call them? And help with application advice?

Again, thanks to you all. I'm feeling so much better - happier and more confident.

Not sure what to say other than you will need to figure the home life situation out before you start med school. Right now you are able to simply take care of the kids, take care of what you need to in the house, take care of what you need to do for school, and ignore your husband (or let him ignore you) but you will NEED either someone supportive with you, or no one at all. Coming to the end of first year of med school, with only one child and a wife that works, I would probably have had to take a leave of absence by now (or dropped out completely) if my wife were not behind me. He HAS to support you in this, or you have to choose medicine over him, or you will run a very high risk of losing med school, your marriage, or both.

Managing undergraduate level courses is truly EASY compared to med school, and I say this as someone who went into med school thinking "yeah, everyone said college would be hard too, and it wasn't nearly as bad as they said." If you never had to study for undergraduate classes, you will in med school. If you had to study for college, you will have to a lot more for med school. You cannot have a passive-aggressive husband injecting drama into your life right when you need to focus the most on school (i.e. before exams). It will destroy your marriage, your success in med school, or both if you don't figure it out now, before you start med school. Whether figuring it out means divorce or getting him in line depends on the two of you.

Good luck, but for your own sake (and your family's of course) don't start med school thinking you can fix it as you go, or figure it out later.

 

[JourneyAgent]

I'm on a "surgery" rotation now (I put it in quotes, because I think of it more as a surgery-lite - the hours aren't nearly as long as yours - mainly because since I don't want to do surgery, I picked a site that had easier hours).

During Ob/Gyn, I just worked it out. I'm lucky my youngest son's before and after school daycare is actually his best friend's mom - so, she has really worked with me on shifts. My other son is in high school, so he's a bit easier to leave alone for extended periods.

I am considering doing ob/gyn - I will have to make adjustments when that time comes.

Cool. You're beyond resourceful. But I'm also am glad you're being honest about the obstacles as well as the fortune of solutions and help.

I've seen so many people over the years with entire extended family networks and nannies of help doing these herculean tasks and conveniently leave those details out when making recommendations to premeds seeking to climb the tallest mountains.

What you're doing is incredible.

But we didn't have a choice about sites or a "surgery" rotation as opposed to a surgery rotation and I'm also am cringing at how you'll deal with internship and beyond in OB. Really...you're gonna need crazy help. It just seems crazy to me to plunge forward thinking it will all get worked out. But I lack your guts. Which is I why I make sure I'm unlikely to impregnate I suppose.

But the OP and you. Have one HELL OF A LOT more to think about and get done on any given day than the rest of us. Let's just make that known to one an all. Understatement of this going into medicine would be insane.

 

[sgemmell]

Cool. You're beyond resourceful. But I'm also am glad you're being honest about the obstacles as well as the fortune of solutions and help.

I've seen so many people over the years with entire extended family networks and nannies of help doing these herculean tasks and conveniently leave those details out when making recommendations to premeds seeking climb the tallest mountains.

What you're doing is incredible.

But we didn't have a choice about sites or a "surgery" rotation as opposed to a surgery rotation and I'm also am cringing at how you'll deal with internship and beyond in OB. Really...you're gonna need crazy help. It just seems crazy to me to plunge forward thinking it will all get worked out. But I lack your guts. Which is I why I make sure I'm unlikely to impregnate I suppose.

But the OP and you. Have one HELL OF A LOT more to think about and get done on any given day than the rest of us. Let's just make that known to one an all. Understatement of this going into medicine would be insane.

Yeah, ANYONE with kids (whether married or not) HAS to really look at their situation and determine what is realistic for them. When I was selecting what schools to apply at, I intentionally looked at what resources were available in the area in addition to looking into the school itself. I had to find some place that was affordable, but had ample community resources available - especially since my youngest is on the autism spectrum (he's high functioning, so that helps as far as ease of finding resources) and has a primary immune deficiency.

I will absolutely need a lot of help during intern year and beyond, especially if I go into ob/gyn. This is one of the reasons why, if I do decide to go into ob/gyn, one of the residency programs I'm strongly interested in is near my parents and one of my brothers. Outside of it being a good program, it's close by people that will be more available to help me out.

To be honest - yes, medical school would be easier to do without children. However, I have them and simply have to just deal with it. It will all work out - it has to, there is no other choice. Since there is no other choice, that means I have to be proactive in making it work out 🙂

 

[534455]

Dear dramadown,

I feel your frustration. As a non-trad, older, married MD Student (1st year), I can confidently say that it will get harder when (not if) you start medical school. When you start medical school, you will need, nay require or feed off, the support from your family. If you don't have it, you might as well not go to medical school.

If your spouse/husband is good on talk, but missing on actions, then he needs to get with your program. He loves you - I am assuming. He will support you. You are, in essence, empowering him to get away with murder. Kids will be kids. Look at the kids as doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing. But the husband needs to act like a husband as well, not a kid. Real spouses put their significant others FIRST above the kids. Consider that truth long and hard. Then take action.

I am not a believer in divorce. Counseling yes. But I also think counseling someone on the internet whom you do not know is foolish. We can not help you but you can help yourself to friends in the flesh who can counsel you, church members, family members and, of course, a dialogue with your husband.

I started my first year solo. I moved away from the family but the family was still with me: phone calls, US Mail, FedEx gifts/packages, greeting cards, email, visits. These were crucial for me and heartwarming. It was also stressful when things were not going well back at home - the lawnmower did not work, the pool equipment broke, algae started to grow in the jacuzzi, the waterline to the house was shut off - (the neighbor had it shut off do to plumbing in their backyard) - and I had to listen to it all from a far off location. Studying can be impossible when you feel guilty about the family being alone, defenseless, stressed and of course you feel guilty about abandoning them.

I have everyones support in my family. My in-laws brag to their friends about their loved one, the doctor, even though I'm not a doctor....yet. I write all this to let you know it gets harder when medical school starts while having a family. If you do NOT have a supportive spouse, you will stumble in school.

Med school zaps your concentration 110%. You go to bed knowing you didn't read everything and/or outline your notes completely, and you awake knowing you are going to lectures to cover new material. The pressure is enormous. If you are driven, and every medical student is, you will drive yourself into a frenetic mental state. Depression is extremely high in medical school, and low self-esteem is even higher. So, resolve your issues now before you start medical school.

My spouse is coming back to school with me after my current Spring Break. I am relieved.
I have also gained 5 pounds b/c my mother-in-law is an amazing cook. And I'm going to kick some serious arse the remainder of my year now that I have my best friend and soul mate coming to be with me. There is a Resurrection!

As for comparing yourself to the young "trads", please do yourself a favor:

look at the number of banned SDN members on here. They were banned for a reason, and many more should be banned because, like your kids, they act childish. Sadly, the internet is a forum where everyone and anyone can express their opinions. Likewise, the kids whom you see at the medical school application forums come in all shapes, sizes and maturity levels. Few will get accepted so don't assume they have a tremendous advantage over you. Few of these kids have the interpersonal skills to get through a face/face interview. As a parent you have hopefully mastered this needed skill. So, stay off the pre-med SDN forums, read posts by Medical Students who seem reasonable in their posts, and reach out to your support system back at home, starting with your husband.

Get everyone aligned to where you are going. Start now.

Happy Easter to everyone.

signed,

--the Road Less Traveled to MD

http://roadlesstraveledmd.wordpress.com

 

[DrMidlife]

When's the last time your husband asked you to "woman up" and change the oil on the car or fix a leaky faucet and then got mad when you weren't "woman enough" to do it right?

1972 TV sitcoms called. They want their cliches back.

 

[TriagePreMed]

It's unfair for women to ask men to do housework /childcare and then get bent about it if it isn't done right. When's the last time your husband asked you to "woman up" and change the oil on the car or fix a leaky faucet and then got mad when you weren't "woman enough" to do it right?

There are many studies that show the more housework/childrearing a husband does, the unhappier his wife gets, and unhappier wives have a strong correlation to likelihood of divorce.

Tenured prof is a nice gig. Seem like your husband would prefer a stay-at-home wife, and you'd prefer a husband who doesn't care his wife is gone 80 hours a week. Plenty of women out there would be ok with the former, but not too many men are ok with the latter. Too bad kids are involved.

I am one to usually defend other men who in our society have lately become targets of feminists, but your comment goes too far. A man should be able to parent with his kids. Taking a kid to soccer, another to PT and then let something cook is something that any decent guy would do for the love to his family, especially if his wife is busy for three hours.

In this mess you wrote there is a good point though, which I also alluded to. A tenured college professor obviously can handle stuff like this, but he had to actively choose not to do things. He does this because he does not share the wife's desire for her to go back to school. Clearly this wife needs to have a conversation with her husband because going back to school is not something they mutually agree with. He's purposely allowing things to become a disaster to discourage his wife. If this wife wants to succeed in her marriage AND professionally, she needs to have this conversation and it may come down to choosing one over another.

Probably a bit soon to be mentioning divorce, don't you think?

I agree with you.

 

[Lys Ile Glu Leu]

If that's just a move to discourage her or to make life difficult, that's definitely some passive-aggressive p&$@y s&$t right there. Family comes first and if there are other problems, you talk about it, not throw a fit like a spoiled five year old.

 

[StudyShy]

I know that money can be hard to come by, but maybe you can hire a sitter? I know that sounds terrible when you have a husband at home, but if it will alleviate some stress then maybe it's worth it.

He may feel overwhelmed and may not openly admit it. Heck, my four children drive me insane daily. I can admit this, lol. If you have done everything up until now, then it is going to feel chaotic to him. He may also not like doing all the extra work even if it's just for a couple of hours. It is hard work at times. Children know how to push all the right buttons, and it takes practice to learn how to stay calm and balanced when one kid is crying for milk, one is hitting another, one is drawing on the wall, one is getting upset over a video game...whatever is going at any point in time. My husband and I talk to each other about parenting and usually it makes me feel better when he relates to me about how he finds something that the kids do to be difficult to manage. By doing this, I feel less alone and so does he since we take turns watching the children due to our work schedules.


As for feeling less worthy perhaps to pursue medicine compared to your younger traditional counterparts, let me affirm to you that you are absolutely just as valuable to the profession as they are because nontraditionals bring different aspects to the game that traditionals cannot as easily. If you have a question about the application process, don't be afraid to ask here. There are many great students our there willing to help who aren't SDN trolls.

Hang in there! 🙂

 

[dramadown]

So the husband and I had a talk last night, which went pretty badly.

I started with sharing my fears that pursing a pre-med path, and eventually med school, etc, is going to be much more than our family can bear. I used "I" statements, asked questions, spoke calmly and did all of the other things one is supposed to do to communicate openly and responsibly......and he hit the roof.

Said I was accusing him of being unsupportive, blaming everything on him, not allowing him to have a bad day. I just kept reiterating that I had fears and didn't argue.

We veered off into talking about logistics - childcare and $. He's arguing for putting our youngest (who will turn 2 in the fall) into full-time day care, and simultaneously saying we can't afford any childcare. We talked about the need to reallocate housework and last night he promised to take care of a few tasks before his parents arrive this afternoon, but he's gone for the day and half of them are not done...

So its the same old same old - talking the talk but not walking the walk. Just hearing from so many of you that this is pretty much bull**** has been amazingly helpful. Regardless, for now staying together and staying the course, pre-med, seems the best option, even though it is not great. The lesser of two evils and all that.

Best (?) thing to come out of all this: He said that after I finish residency, if I can land a job paying 6 figures he'd be happy to quit his job and move wherever I want to work! At that point he'd also be willing to assume the bulk of the housework and childcare responsibilities, in addition to fishing and going to the gym more, which is might big of him - our youngest will be 13 when I finish a residency and the other two will be grown and out of the house. How's THAT for support?! I have to laugh, otherwise I'd cry.

Thanks again everyone...

 

[Chuchunezumis]

Talk is cheap. It's so cheap it's free.

It's pretty clear your husband doesn't want to do this, and medical school and residency will only get much harder and have you much more stressed. Based on what you've told us so far, I don't see how this can end well if you consider to pursue this path. You want to make a 10,000+ hour commitment that your husband doesn't want you to make.

Looks like you have a few options, all of which suck.

#1) Give up on your dream which leaves you feeling empty and bitter towards your husband who didn't allow you to pursue your goals.

#2) Pursue medical school anyways, and if you succeed in getting in face a near impossible task of having to deal with your family's demands and a husband who doesn't support you.

#3) Get a divorce.

I agree with others that throwing out divorce now is too soon, I'm just pointing out that I don't see how you can do this when your husband is clearly against it and you have a family to take care of. Best of luck in whatever you decide to do, and if possible seek counseling (I know your husband is against this though).

 

[534455]

Dear Dramadown,

You can not look at Residency at this point and a 6 figure income (post-Residency, if I may add). You will not get to either until you go through the motions that all of us married, non-traditional students have undertaken to get into medical school and succeed therein. I am succeeding in MD school but......and I add this "but" very pointedly....

you can not imagine the struggle it is to get through medical school as a married/family type. It is infinitely harder than anything else I have done while having a family. I can not focus on Residency at this point as a first year student for a mere mid-40K salary for 3-5 years depending on what Residency I select AND which Residency Specialty picks me! There are so many unknowns for me as a First Year Student that looking down the road to even my 3rd and 4th year of Rotations when things will be infinitely much easier for me than my 1st and 2nd year of MD School.

Please consider a professional mediator for this conversation w/ your husband. I am not suggesting you need marital counseling so please don't think that. If your husband is preaching the "same ol' same ol" thinking you will make a 6 figure income in 2-3 years so he can play Mr. Stay At Home Mom and have cocktails at the Country Club w/ the boys, you are allowing....nay...inviting disaster.

In other words, you need to focus on today.

If your husband is not pulling for you today, you will not get to tomorrow, or next year, or MCAT studies.

I wish you well.

 

[LiveLoveLearn]

So the husband and I had a talk last night, which went pretty badly.

I started with sharing my fears that pursing a pre-med path, and eventually med school, etc, is going to be much more than our family can bear. I used "I" statements, asked questions, spoke calmly and did all of the other things one is supposed to do to communicate openly and responsibly......and he hit the roof.

Said I was accusing him of being unsupportive, blaming everything on him, not allowing him to have a bad day. I just kept reiterating that I had fears and didn't argue.

We veered off into talking about logistics - childcare and $. He's arguing for putting our youngest (who will turn 2 in the fall) into full-time day care, and simultaneously saying we can't afford any childcare. We talked about the need to reallocate housework and last night he promised to take care of a few tasks before his parents arrive this afternoon, but he's gone for the day and half of them are not done...

So its the same old same old - talking the talk but not walking the walk. Just hearing from so many of you that this is pretty much bull**** has been amazingly helpful. Regardless, for now staying together and staying the course, pre-med, seems the best option, even though it is not great. The lesser of two evils and all that.

Best (?) thing to come out of all this: He said that after I finish residency, if I can land a job paying 6 figures he'd be happy to quit his job and move wherever I want to work! At that point he'd also be willing to assume the bulk of the housework and childcare responsibilities, in addition to fishing and going to the gym more, which is might big of him - our youngest will be 13 when I finish a residency and the other two will be grown and out of the house. How's THAT for support?! I have to laugh, otherwise I'd cry.

Thanks again everyone...

I don't have any children, but I am married, and fortunately my husband is very supportive. I'm certainly no expert, but here is my adivce. I personally think that the only way to get through your post bac, med school and residency with your marriage is tact is if both of you are truly on board with your goals and working towards those goals as a team. I know that you had a conversation with him, but it doesn't seem like it was that productive. I would say that you have to continue to rehash the subject until you make more head-way. There seems to be tones of bitterness on both sides that probably need to be explored more thoroughly.

As far as feeling out of place at the pre-medical forum, that is just life as a non-traditional pre-med. While I absolutely agree that there are things that non-trads bring to the table that adcoms are looking for that younger students don't, I don't think that it makes sense to completely write them off as suggested by some other posters (or to have completely negative attitudes to traditional students, as some non-trads seem to - they will be your classmates and coworkers for your career). Just be aware of what some of these other people are going to bring to the table, and think about why your own experiences and personal attributes better qualify you, such as an obvious dedication to the field, perservernce, etc.. If you can convince yourself, as I'm sure you can, you will likely be able to convince adcoms in your personal statment and interviews.

Good luck!

 

[LiveLoveLearn]

So the husband and I had a talk last night, which went pretty badly.

I started with sharing my fears that pursing a pre-med path, and eventually med school, etc, is going to be much more than our family can bear. I used "I" statements, asked questions, spoke calmly and did all of the other things one is supposed to do to communicate openly and responsibly......and he hit the roof.

Said I was accusing him of being unsupportive, blaming everything on him, not allowing him to have a bad day. I just kept reiterating that I had fears and didn't argue.

We veered off into talking about logistics - childcare and $. He's arguing for putting our youngest (who will turn 2 in the fall) into full-time day care, and simultaneously saying we can't afford any childcare. We talked about the need to reallocate housework and last night he promised to take care of a few tasks before his parents arrive this afternoon, but he's gone for the day and half of them are not done...

So its the same old same old - talking the talk but not walking the walk. Just hearing from so many of you that this is pretty much bull**** has been amazingly helpful. Regardless, for now staying together and staying the course, pre-med, seems the best option, even though it is not great. The lesser of two evils and all that.

Best (?) thing to come out of all this: He said that after I finish residency, if I can land a job paying 6 figures he'd be happy to quit his job and move wherever I want to work! At that point he'd also be willing to assume the bulk of the housework and childcare responsibilities, in addition to fishing and going to the gym more, which is might big of him - our youngest will be 13 when I finish a residency and the other two will be grown and out of the house. How's THAT for support?! I have to laugh, otherwise I'd cry.

Thanks again everyone...

It's unfair for women to ask men to do housework /childcare and then get bent about it if it isn't done right. When's the last time your husband asked you to "woman up" and change the oil on the car or fix a leaky faucet and then got mad when you weren't "woman enough" to do it right?

There are many studies that show the more housework/childrearing a husband does, the unhappier his wife gets, and unhappier wives have a strong correlation to likelihood of divorce.

Tenured prof is a nice gig. Seem like your husband would prefer a stay-at-home wife, and you'd prefer a husband who doesn't care his wife is gone 80 hours a week. Plenty of women out there would be ok with the former, but not too many men are ok with the latter. Too bad kids are involved.

This is such a ridiculous post for so many reasons. For starters, there are a lot of women who are the "handy man" around the house (including me), so you should stop making assumptions. Secondly, you really aren't giving men a lot of props if you think that house work is just beyond the scope of their abilities. 😕

Unfortunately, I do think that you made one good point. Regardless of what the male and female role in a given relationship should or coule be, what really matters is that both poeple are in agreement of that arrangement. If said husband is the type of person who wants a stay-at-home wife and the he is married to someone who wants to be a physician, then there could be a problem.

 

[Croooz]

Your husband is 100% passive-aggressive. Pick up some books on the subject and see that you're not the problem. PA folk, especially men, have the knack for making others believe they are the problem and twisting you being the victim to instead you being the problem and they're the victim.

What to do? Well I was PA and once it was pointed out I fought it but eventually I had to accept it...and change. Difficult but possible however not possible if the PA person does not believe they have a problem. PA is simply hidden anger. A PA person is one who cannot express their feelings and when they feel "attacked" get angry and somehow, someway turn things around and become the victim. Trust me I abhor this behavior because I've seen it in myself. It really sucks when you see it in bosses and coworkers which is very real now that having emotions is considered being out of control...

Anyway I'm no help but to say that he will not do anything he does not want to do. Seriously pick up some books on PA. THere are many good ones now that will help with dealing with this crap. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...assive+aggressive&sprefix=passive+agg,aps,153 The books will also give you some comfort in that all the stuff you're going through is par for the course. Basically it's not you and that empowered my wife tremendously as well as put me in check.

As far as comparing yourself to other students just give that up. I got into a conversation with one and she hit me with all the stuff I would have to do to get accepted. We began to compare apps and you would've thought we were equals how she downplayed my experience and exagerrated her own. She did 4 summers of "research" which amounts to 12 months. I was in research for 16 years...yet she considered our experiences equal. In her mind summer student posters = journal articles. So don't waste your time because many of these trads are just overblowing weeks of something and making it sound like years. Not mad at them but just keep everything in context. While it may seem you have to be everything what you need to be is someone the adcoms want in their school and want to one day call a colleague. Good stats, passion, and good personality go very, very far....or so I've heard.

 

[Greggh2]

Just keep your head up girl and dont give up!

Sometimes you just have bad days and you gotta get past em and onto the good ones! <3

 

[Chuchunezumis]

Just realized kids don't magically disappear when you get a divorce, so that's probably not a good option either for achieving your goal. Tough spot.

 

[bajastapler]

call love line!!!! XP

in all seriousness though. You need to communicate with him. Not from a, "you're doing this wrong, why aren't you doing this instead??!?!?!"

You need to communicate with him from an, "I" perspective. "I feel a lack of support for X, Y, and Z. Last few times, I went to pursue something for my career, (insert breakdown/story) I felt like I wasn't being supported as a spousal partner. I am worried about it getting worse when school starts". Basically explain how his behavior is making you feel. But DO NOT attack him.

Next, listen to him. Whatever he has to say. Finally, offer some solutions that you think might work. When you're trying to offer solutions use, "we/us" statements.

If that doesn't work, then you need to seek professional help. If all else fails . . . :c you might need to consider something more drastic. There's a great line from a book, Perks of Being a Wallflower, which was turned into a crummy movie, that goes: "We accept the love that we think we deserve."

I think your situation might be alittle more complicated b/c it involves a marriage with kids, but the fundamental question is still the same. What do you deserve? What does your husband deserve? What do your kids deserve?

Anyways goodluck!

 

[kimposibl]

OP, your man just needs to grow up. With med school and kids on your mind, he's probably feeling neglected and lashed out. Where med school will be a full time job, you will have to have your husband's full support if you don't want to stress out so much.

Also, I agree with the bragging little premeds posts. Ignore all the inexperienced younglings who've never had to pay for their phone bills. (I'm just bitter cuz I can't afford an iPhone 5)

 

[Paramedoc]

Wow, as someone who is planning on going into Med-school married with kids, this thread is a bit of a bummer. Thankfully my guy works from home, but I wonder if in your case paying a nanny and a housekeeper wouldn't be a good idea. With both parents working / going to school full time it might be a really sound investment, there just aren't enough hours in the day. Even if you had to take out additional loans, I think it would be worth it to have professional domestic help to keep the stress levels for everyone down to a manageable level.

How strong is you husband's "tenure-track"? A lot of institutions are changing their hiring practices due to criticisms about the rising cost if higher education, so his job prospects might not be exactly what you're banking on. You may be the primary breadwinner and loan repayer after residency not just because he wants to quit, but because he has no other options.

1972 TV sitcoms called. They want their cliches back.

Seriously, wow. Thank you for coming up with a fun way to deal with that wet blanket. I can fix the plumbing, take out the trash, and change my oil more competently than any man I've ever dated. Some people are motivated to know how to fix things, most people in modern society are happy to pay a professional to do it. It has little to do with gender roles until they put undue expectations on a partner.

 

[Iamthep]

Most here are being incredibly unfair to the husband.

As a husband with children myself, it is very difficult when your significant other is not pulling their weight. And this, by definition, happens when they are going to school. This means that your husband is picking up your slack.

Why do I say this? Because if you had a job you would be contributing financially and have daycare 9 to 5. Then when you both get home at 5pm you can spend quality family time together. This is important for family cohesiveness. Or you could be a stay at home mother and you end up doing the same thing.

What happens when you are going to school AND not using daycare? You can't study effectively while taking care of a baby. So you end up studying when your husband gets home, and he has to take over care of the children, instead of sharing the responsibility with you. This is not great for your husband, you, or your family. And this is what he has to look toward to for 2-3 years of premed, 4 years of medical school and ~5 years of residency. For a person who finally wants to relax a bit and spend time with his significant other and family, this is a raw deal.

Why would a sane person want to do this? They would not, and as such he does not want to do this either.

So, try a little empathy first. Try to envision what his life would be like if you had a 8-5 job paying 90k a year. Now envision what his life will be like while you are going through everything that a career in medicine entails. This difference is the price he is paying and it is absolutely non-trivial. Is it fair to him to have to make that sacrifice? NO. So if he does make it, you are one lucky woman.

Here are some tips to make it easier:
1. Acknowledge the sacrifice he will be making.
2. Get daycare. Just do it.
3. No studying allowed from 5-8pm or whatever you decide on. Treat school as a job. This means classes + studying from 8am-5pm with a day each weekend reserved for a nice 8 hour session if needed.
4. If he doesn't keep the house as clean as you would like, too bad. People place different values on things. Just because you put a high value on a clean house does not mean it is the correct value. If he doesn't make the dinners you would like, too bad. Be accepting of how he takes care of things. Period. If you want something done differently, you need to do it yourself. Do not expect him to take on your values.
5. And again, acknowledge his sacrifice each and every day. Realize he is gaining pretty much nothing out of this trade and try to be ultra attentive to his needs an hour out of each day.

My wife is preparing for medical school and it is tough. Very tough. I am not happy thinking about the next 10 years. But she is a wonderful person, so I am willing to make the sacrifice. I just hope that once she is done, that we will be able to finally spend a lot more time together. Perhaps we will even be able to take holidays together! In the mean time I dream about how nice things would be if she just decided to get a normal full time job.

 

[abolt18]

Most here are being incredibly unfair to the husband.

As a husband with children myself, it is very difficult when your significant other is not pulling their weight. And this, by definition, happens when they are going to school. This means that your husband is picking up your slack.

Why do I say this? Because if you had a job you would be contributing financially and have daycare 9 to 5. Then when you both get home at 5pm you can spend quality family time together. This is important for family cohesiveness. Or you could be a stay at home mother and you end up doing the same thing.

What happens when you are going to school AND not using daycare? You can't study effectively while taking care of a baby. So you end up studying when your husband gets home, and he has to take over care of the children, instead of sharing the responsibility with you. This is not great for your husband, you, or your family. And this is what he has to look toward to for 2-3 years of premed, 4 years of medical school and ~5 years of residency. For a person who finally wants to relax a bit and spend time with his significant other and family, this is a raw deal.

Why would a sane person want to do this? They would not, and as such he does not want to do this either.

So, try a little empathy first. Try to envision what his life would be like if you had a 8-5 job paying 90k a year. Now envision what his life will be like while you are going through everything that a career in medicine entails. This difference is the price he is paying and it is absolutely non-trivial. Is it fair to him to have to make that sacrifice? NO. So if he does make it, you are one lucky woman.

Here are some tips to make it easier:
1. Acknowledge the sacrifice he will be making.
2. Get daycare. Just do it.
3. No studying allowed from 5-8pm or whatever you decide on. Treat school as a job. This means classes + studying from 8am-5pm with a day each weekend reserved for a nice 8 hour session if needed.
4. If he doesn't keep the house as clean as you would like, too bad. People place different values on things. Just because you put a high value on a clean house does not mean it is the correct value. If he doesn't make the dinners you would like, too bad. Be accepting of how he takes care of things. Period. If you want something done differently, you need to do it yourself. Do not expect him to take on your values.
5. And again, acknowledge his sacrifice each and every day. Realize he is gaining pretty much nothing out of this trade and try to be ultra attentive to his needs an hour out of each day.

My wife is preparing for medical school and it is tough. Very tough. I am not happy thinking about the next 10 years. But she is a wonderful person, so I am willing to make the sacrifice. I just hope that once she is done, that we will be able to finally spend a lot more time together. Perhaps we will even be able to take holidays together! In the mean time I dream about how nice things would be if she just decided to get a normal full time job.

While I agree with some of what you have said (as in, it is asking him to make some huge changes put on some shoes he hasn't previously worn) you are neglecting the facts that they agreed upon this long ago while he worked to pursue his career. You don't know if she worked to support him through school or what role she played in that sense. Maybe this guy just needs a little coaxing and perseverance to get him to be more helpful, but maybe he is just being a jerk and needs a good smack in the mouth to help him wake up and realize he's being a jerk.

 

[LiveLoveLearn]

While I agree with some of what you have said (as in, it is asking him to make some huge changes put on some shoes he hasn't previously worn) you are neglecting the facts that they agreed upon this long ago while he worked to pursue his career. You don't know if she worked to support him through school or what role she played in that sense. Maybe this guy just needs a little coaxing and perseverance to get him to be more helpful, but maybe he is just being a jerk and needs a good smack in the mouth to help him wake up and realize he's being a jerk.

Completely off-topic, but because of your avatar, when I read your posts in my head they are totally in the voice/tone of Ron Swanson. Love it!

 

[CountSpockula]

Most here are being incredibly unfair to the husband.

As a husband with children myself, it is very difficult when your significant other is not pulling their weight. And this, by definition, happens when they are going to school. This means that your husband is picking up your slack.

Why do I say this? Because if you had a job you would be contributing financially and have daycare 9 to 5. Then when you both get home at 5pm you can spend quality family time together. This is important for family cohesiveness. Or you could be a stay at home mother and you end up doing the same thing.

What happens when you are going to school AND not using daycare? You can't study effectively while taking care of a baby. So you end up studying when your husband gets home, and he has to take over care of the children, instead of sharing the responsibility with you. This is not great for your husband, you, or your family. And this is what he has to look toward to for 2-3 years of premed, 4 years of medical school and ~5 years of residency. For a person who finally wants to relax a bit and spend time with his significant other and family, this is a raw deal.

Why would a sane person want to do this? They would not, and as such he does not want to do this either.

So, try a little empathy first. Try to envision what his life would be like if you had a 8-5 job paying 90k a year. Now envision what his life will be like while you are going through everything that a career in medicine entails. This difference is the price he is paying and it is absolutely non-trivial. Is it fair to him to have to make that sacrifice? NO. So if he does make it, you are one lucky woman.

Here are some tips to make it easier:
1. Acknowledge the sacrifice he will be making.
2. Get daycare. Just do it.
3. No studying allowed from 5-8pm or whatever you decide on. Treat school as a job. This means classes + studying from 8am-5pm with a day each weekend reserved for a nice 8 hour session if needed.
4. If he doesn't keep the house as clean as you would like, too bad. People place different values on things. Just because you put a high value on a clean house does not mean it is the correct value. If he doesn't make the dinners you would like, too bad. Be accepting of how he takes care of things. Period. If you want something done differently, you need to do it yourself. Do not expect him to take on your values.
5. And again, acknowledge his sacrifice each and every day. Realize he is gaining pretty much nothing out of this trade and try to be ultra attentive to his needs an hour out of each day.

My wife is preparing for medical school and it is tough. Very tough. I am not happy thinking about the next 10 years. But she is a wonderful person, so I am willing to make the sacrifice. I just hope that once she is done, that we will be able to finally spend a lot more time together. Perhaps we will even be able to take holidays together! In the mean time I dream about how nice things would be if she just decided to get a normal full time job.

The way the OP's husband reacted to the situation is what makes him garner such little empathy from the other posters in this thread. Everyone understands that people get stressed and some people are just not built to handle certain aspects of maintaining a household and caring for children. But really, the OP made him dinner, set everything up to run smoothly, and he still had a cow (about something incredibly petty, I might add). There is no justification for his behavior. As someone else mentioned, he is totally passive aggressive, and lacks the ability to communicate to the OP that he can't handle a task. Instead, he plays the vicitim and blames others for his issues. That is not okay.

OP, I must say that I dealt with the exact same thing. In my case, though, I worked full time, went to school full time while my SO stayed home with our special needs child. I am not exaggerating when I say he did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING while I worked all day (except play video games), then griped when dinner was late, dishes weren't done, etc.. He eventually admitted to me that he had a REALLY hard time adjusting to the reversed roles where he was staying at home and I was working/achieving my goals. However, the way he handled it by acting like a baby, further drove a wedge into our relationship and caused a ridiculous amount of resentment. As others have stated, you need to find a way to sort this mess out and cull that behavior before you get yourself more invested in this journey. You really need to come to terms with the fact that he may never change, and may drag you and your goals down. My SO finally figured out how to be a good stay at home dad, but by then, the damage to our relationship was too severe, and we broke it off (which actually benefited us in the long run).

Also, it may be that he is jealous of the status that your future career will give you. Think about it: you're a SAHM (or at least I assume so), he is a tenure-track professor. Eventually if you get through the whole med school/residency/doctor thing, he may feel that you are going to overshadow him and his successes. Some people just can't handle being out-done by their spouses. Anyway, I hope everything works out for you- I always want to root for a fellow mom getting through the craziness that is medical school- but as others have said, you DEFINITELY need a strong support system in place- starting at home with your husband.

GL!

 

[abolt18]

Completely off-topic, but because of your avatar, when I read your posts in my head they are totally in the voice/tone of Ron Swanson. Love it!

Mission accomplished 😉