Dental School Debt

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Dental School Debt

  • less than 100k

    Votes: 43 14.0%

  • 101k to 150k

    Votes: 42 13.6%

  • 151k to 200k

    Votes: 55 17.9%

  • 201k to 250k

    Votes: 53 17.2%

  • 251k to 300k

    Votes: 54 17.5%

  • more than 301k

    Votes: 61 19.8%
  • Total voters
    308
3

3rdMolarRoller

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How much debt do you plan to have after graduation?
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When I look at the amount of debt that dental students incur, it almost doesn't even seem real. It's like pretend money or something. A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS!!!!! :eek: Hello... most American families barely make that much in a decade!!!

I can't really even imagine ever being able to pay that down and still having enough left for mortgage, cars... food - but, I guess, obviously, it does happen; I haven't met too many starving dentists. Anyway, glad I'm in the under $100,000 range --- but even that much scares the bjeebers outta me. Thank goodness for subsidized loans. :)
 
I will have no debt but looking at those numbers still freak me out. It's easy when you take the loan out and spend. When paying back, it is not that fun, especially with office loan, car, gas, mortgage, and all other expenses plus taxes every year.

I guess that it will work. It's just not as enjoyable as it should be. If you get up in the morning and think :"Gee, I better do some more crowns to pay all this month bills?"

:eek: :eek:
 
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Just wanted to put in my two cents 'cause I just started researching about this subject. And it's difficult to say. You are lucky if you get into a public school that you like because it's cheap and you won't have that much loan. But if you are planning to attend a private dental school, like me, you are in for a lil ride.

I think everybody starts out with $38,500 loan from Direct Loan ($8000 sub and $3500 unsub). So if you are in state school and if it costs less than this, then all you need is the direct loan (I think). But on the other hand, if you are enrolling in a private institution you need about $20G's to $30G's more - there's $5000 max from Perkins Loan, and (I think) another $5000 from HPSL (health prof student loans). That leaves, oh i don't know, about $10G's to $20G's - that has to come from family contributions and private loans (or if you are a lucky bas***d - scholarships). This is what I have come up with so far from talking to FA officers and reading FA materials.

But in the end, since everybody's family and financial situtations are different, it's really up to the schools to package up your loans, scholarships, and family contributions. So I would say just take care of your FAFSA, state loan progs, and school FA forms and just wait to get your loan packages. It won't be that long - I heard they already started making it up, everyone should get one around April and May.

Good luck with your loan stuffs - I know I definately need lots and lots of scholarships!!!

***Tinker Bell!!! how did you manage to do that? I am starting out minus $20G's from undergrad.
 
What dental school will cost more than $250k?
 
alexii,

USC and BU probably cost that much....especially USC!
 
NYU, when everything is put together it will cost over $250K. I remember when I went for an interview there, one of the dental student told us to go any cheaper school that we get into. That he can't understand why the school is so expensive. Don't get me wrong NYU is a good school but is too damn expensive.
 
You guys are too intimidated by money. Saying things it's quarter of a million dollars or a house or five million Bazooka Joe's scares a lot of people into not going to school's with the price tag. I know a handful of people who went to NYU over Stonybrook, Buffalo and Columbia. NYU is in a safer area that Columbia, warmer than Buffalo and busier than Stonybrook. They all do it without worry about the price tag. You'll all realize later in life when you've made your share that money can be overrated and your children won't be intimidated by it.
 
Of course our kids won't be intimidated by money, they're going to be the "spoiled rich kids" of dentists. :laugh: They'll think it grows on trees.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't go to an expensive school if that's what you want (is there a cheap one?). They couldn't charge that kind of tuition if it wasn't possible to pay off the loans. I'm just observing that it is SOOO MUCH money that I really can't even think about it without at least a twinge of doubt as to whether I'll be able to pay it off. Call me a cynic.

Part of my attitude towards this stems also from the fact that I've been getting free tuition, books and $2,000 discretionary/semester for undergrad. I guess, I'm just having a hard time getting used to the idea that the government/university system's not gonna be taking care of me anymore.
+pity+ Poor, poor yosemitesam's gotta be a grown-up, now.

:)
 
Being cautious about the amount of debt someone will undertake and being afraid of money are two very separate things. There is absolutely no point in assuming that much debt at some schools if you can get into a cheaper one. Go ahead and ask most practicing dentists, and they will by far say the most important thing is to go to a cheaper school.

Yes, if you are 250,000 in debt you will be able to pay it off. But don't be naive, there are a good number of dentists that have to close up shop because their overhead is too much. Take into account a house, a car and a family, and you will be stressed every day of your life once you are out.

A professor at school told us about how when he got out and a patient opened his mouth, all he did was add up the money. His advice to us was to leave below your means for a few years out. Otherwise, he said you will feel the heaviest burden because you'll have to crank out patients because you will owe so much money.

Not to mention adding 500 grand if you plan on purchasing a practice or at least a million if you plan on starting up your own private practice.
 
Gosh,

UOP or Temple?

UOP 3 years = $250,000
TEM 4 years ~ $150,000
 
DcS,
Possibly my point wasn't clearly stated, as I was trying to say that 250 is not THAT bad. Most of us will be practicing for at least 20 years and as long as you don't either gamble or snort it all the way, you should be able to pay it off. I was trying to say that more people were afraid of the figure 250,000 because it equaled the quarter mill or the value of a moderate home than the actual value. I'm still not sure if I can make the point properly, thus I will step aside from the discussion but I'm not naive. Of course if you could go to a cheaper school, you're allowed to go and it may make you happier.

Yosemite,
I apologize if I made you feel as if I singled you out as it was not my intention.
 
A 250k student loan balance at the end of four years of dental school would intimidate me greatly. Amortized over a twenty year period at a rather conservative 5.0% fixed annual rate results in a rather staggering monthly student loan payment of $1649.88. Let?s assume upon graduation that you were hired as an associate with a combined salary/bonus structure that affords you a gross monthly salary of $7500. As a general rule of thumb for those in the higher federal tax brackets it is recommended that you cut your gross salary in half to get an idea of your net take home pay. To be conservative, let?s assume that total deductions (federal & state income taxes as well as Medicare and Social Security deductions) account for a combined total of 35% of your gross pay?..leaving you with $4875 to take home.

$4875
$-1649 (student loan payment)
$-1079 (a mortgage payment on a 180k house amortized over a 30 year period at a conservative 6.0% annual interest rate).
$-579 (car payment on a 30k car over five years at 5%)
_______
$1568
remaining without yet deducting for property taxes on home & auto, home & auto insurance premiums, health insurance premium payments for yourself (if not provided by employer) as well as for any dependents, investment contributions, utilities, groceries, entertainment, vacations, toys, money earmarked to help fund a practice buy in/buyout in the near future?..well you get the idea.

I?m not trying to be a pessimist here or to bring anyone down, but I would encourage those who have the option to choose between a state and private institution to do the math and understand the financial repercussions of attending an expensive private dental school (regardless of which type of school you attend I?m sure you will graduate a competent and well respected dentist). If however, you are lucky enough to have parents or a sugar mommy/daddy willing to fit the bill for your dental education, I say go wherever your heart desires. Best of luck to everyone!
 
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Hey everyone!!!

Didn't expect so many responses to this thread.

To help everyone out I made an excel Spreadsheet that calculates your payment, principal, interest and loan balance on a monthly basis for up to 30 years.

Only problem is that I tried attaching it but it told me its an invalid file type...some thing like I can only post pics.

So where can I post and attach this excel file so everyone could access it???
 
Hey Brocnizer,

I sent you a pm.
 
Oh yeah just type in your interest rate, loan amount and length in months and it does the rest
 
Brocnizer 007,

Excellent work. Hey, looking at it make me want to do MBA too.

Those numbers make me dizzy.

:eek: :eek:
 
Good call, there, Gilbert. Anyone not independently wealthy that thinks they can go to a $250K school and have no problems is dreaming. Your numbers are very realistic (if not very conservative!)...and add to them the cost of buying a practice b/c you will likely still have your school debt when you do that. So add another 500K or so of debt and you are looking at living a pretty frugal lifestyle to even make the numbers work every month. Sure, if your parents are paying for your tuition, you are doing fine, but how many parents can afford $250K over 4 years? If you run the numbers and aren't scared, you aren't looking hard enough. Find the best AND cheapest school and you'll thank me ten years from now. If you have the choice, life will be much easier for you if you drop 100K of debt by choosing the cheaper school. Allowing for 4 years of interest on that 100K, you could be talking about dropping enough EXTRA money to buy a semi-decent starter home!!!

Perspective on money issues eludes many applicants. Don't let "it won't happen to me" or "dentists are rich" get in the way of reality!
 
Yup, the thinking "it won't happen to me" or "all dentists I know are rich" happen all the time. Just remember the debt of dental school, plus practice, mortgage, etc... will come up to one million easily....and slaving to pay one million of debt plus interest make it almost not even worth it to go to school. A stock broker makes more money without even sweating that much in school. Working as a dentist is a hard job, that's why it's paid well. It's not a piece of cake to earn money. So, keep the money you earn and retire early. Rather than slaving until 65.
 
I know this thread is old, but I'm doing my research (with all this free time). Anyway, you guys forget to factor in the interest that's accruing on the Unsubsidized Stafford Loan and the Private Loans.

So you really want to just take that principle, and factor it into the compound interest formula


"Amount Owed after 4 Years" = P(1 + r)^n


P = Principle before matriculation
r = Interest Rate (in decimal...i.e. 7% = .07)
n = Number of years.


So for a 300,000 total loan (making it worst case scenario) you'd end up with a repayment amount of $360,000 loan (assuming non of that initial 300K was subsidized and a crappy 7% interest rate). Oh yeah...this is also assuming we take out 300K immediately and have it sitting in our bank account on Day 1 of school (which we know doesn't happen, due to reimbursement schedules).

Damn, that's $4,180/mo, $2,792/mo, and $2,395/mo for 10, 20, and 30 year plans (respectively).

GAWD....what a PITA to pay back. Could consolidate it, and what-not, to bring down interest and monthly payments, but GEEZ.

Compound interest sure sucks when it works against you.



On a lighter note...if I do happen to not get accepted to Tufts or BU this year (stupid waitlist) I'll try to get into UMDNJ or NOVA next year, and have uncle sam only loans.

Good luck to everyone. Pay back whatever loans are leftover at the end of the year towards your highest interest creditor, and you'll save a grip on compound interest.
 
Oh, I did some more calculations, and here goes. We're talkin worst case scenario here.

Now let's assume I take out 300K of unsubsidized loans the 1st day of school...over 4 years, at 7% interest, the amount I owe will be roughly $360,000!

So we established that with a 10 year payment plan, I have to fork up $4,200/month to pay it off. Or $2,800/month to pay it off within 20 years.


Ok, here's the real important stuff. The Quality of Life with a $360,000 Debt.

If i choose the 20 year plan, I must earn $125,000 on average (between those 20 years) in order to live like I've earned $60,000 before taxes.

How's that work? Well....a $60,000/year job equates to a net pay of $42,000/year

$125,000 - 40% taxes - $2800/month = $41,400

This is a very doable and livable budget. On top of that, it's a worst case scenario for all of us pre-dents/dents.

We definitely have the potential to exceed an average of $125K/year over 20 years...it's just a lot of work, budgeting, and dedication. On top of this, we have some portion of the loan subsidized, and 300K is on the extreme side of the spectrum.

This just goes to prove that the majority of pre-dents are not in the profession for the money. If it was money that we wanted, we would have chosen some financial service.

- drPheta
 
Too many times we worry too much about the future, however 99% of the time our worries are nothing to worry about anyways. Debt, its a big issue. We all know someone who has credit problems and we always wonder if we would end up that way. It is a scary topic. But everyone should know that the profession we are about to embark on is awesome. If you are passionate about helping others and are persistant a debt of 300K should not hurt you. Yes, you will have to manage your finances. yes, you will have to make sacrifices. But that is what the real life is about. However, truly I tell you, that regardless how deep you are in debt, you will come out.

It all comes down to organization. Discipline, and aggresivness. I know people who are lazy and are in 10k worth of credit card debt and they can't get out.

So stop worrying about the debt you will have. Be patient, and persistant and take it a day at a time. Looking at the big picture is not gonna help you, but if you think about it a day at a time, it will be much easier that way. And to those who are going to 200K+ schools, like myself, this is an opportunity to learn how to manage your finances. Get a program (e.g. Microsoft Money) and make sure that you have every single cent accounted for. Trust me it will make you much more money conscience.

Cheers,

:hardy: DesiDentist :hardy:
 
very good suggestion. Live like a doctor now and live like a student later. I'm going to try to reduce my expenditure alot.
 
I have a question about doing a residency after dental school. Do you have to start paying off your loan while you are doing a residency? Paying a couple thousand a month on a $38,000 a year stipend sounds nearly impossible judging by the last few posts where it would be tight paying it off making $125,000 a year. Maybe I am not making sense but if anyone has an answer I would appreciate it. Thanks.
 
You don't have to pay off those federal loans until you are finished with any residency programs that you might be entering. This includes specialty training and PGY-1 (GPR & AEGD) programs.

The majority of private loans are also the same -- there is a 6 to 9 month grace period upon the COMPLETION of education, and then the loan must begin to be repayed.
 
Anyone considering the NHSC scholarship?
 
I'm trying to go with the dental school economy plan like Brocnizer. My goal is to get by with as little debt as possible and then go and help people.

PS - And I am also heavily considering the NHSC loan repayment program. :clap:
 
Hey Tinker Bell...y wont you have any debt upon graduation...just rich or merit scholarships or...
 
Since the '08 class is so poll happy :D
 
I can't imagine spending 250,000 for one person. My wife (D1) and I (D2) will be that far in debt combined. I take out the maximum and she takes out just tution. I just think people should go where ever their heart desires, in my eyes I don't think the education you get is a 100,000 dollar difference.
 
Interesting post...
 
I wonder what these guys would say if they saw the price of dental school today. And then took a look at the new Stafford interest rates...

They're complaining about how some privates costs 250k. lol, that is how much UCSF and UCLA cost in-state now.
 
DrReo said:
Interesting post...
Click to expand...

Wow Reo, I hope you used the search tool to find this, or else you're really digging wayy back in the archives ;-)

I like how the first response says that an average American family hardly makes $250,000 in a decade... rolf. The average wage per person is 40k, so that would take one person 6 years, silly kids
 
I'm curious as to how so few people are taking over $300K in debt when some of the largest d-school classes are from the most expensive schools (USC, NYU, BU, Tufts, UoP, Penn)?

Is everyone coming from wealthy families, recieving generous scholarships, saved up money from a job, or just very optimistic?
 
somethinpositiv said:
I'm curious as to how so few people are taking over $300K in debt when some of the largest d-school classes are from the most expensive schools (USC, NYU, BU, Tufts, UoP, Penn)?

Is everyone coming from wealthy families, recieving generous scholarships, saved up money from a job, or just very optimistic?
Click to expand...

This poll is 6 years old. Surprisingly, dental school was a lot cheaper then.
 
somethinpositiv said:
I'm curious as to how so few people are taking over $300K in debt when some of the largest d-school classes are from the most expensive schools (USC, NYU, BU, Tufts, UoP, Penn)?

Is everyone coming from wealthy families, recieving generous scholarships, saved up money from a job, or just very optimistic?
Click to expand...
well UConn for 4 years total including living expenses costs 230K and is considered to be a cheaper school, the tuition alone is 80K for 4 years, but that doesn't include "fees" (what ever those are) or instruments, laptops, books...etc...you get the idea, it adds up quick
 
man, you guys are making me regret my decision of going to UPenn over stonybrook lol

UPenn tuition $220,000
Stonybrook about $80,000
 
This is a very sad and discouraging post, in my opinion. But we need to keep our dreams alive. I will probably have at least 150k in debt (that is, if I go to my state school), meaning that at least the first 10 years after graduation the life will be like of a student :oops:. Although, I wasn't planning for better anyways.

Don't get discouraged!:thumbup::xf:
 
whlee84 said:
man, you guys are making me regret my decision of going to UPenn over stonybrook lol

UPenn tuition $220,000
Stonybrook about $80,000
Click to expand...

Ouch!
 
whlee84 said:
man, you guys are making me regret my decision of going to UPenn over stonybrook lol

UPenn tuition $220,000
Stonybrook about $80,000
Click to expand...

yes, well once you consider living expenses too...ouch!!
 
Thread necromancy

lol look at how these old predents used to whine about $150K cost-of-attendance...

alexii said:
Gosh,

UOP or Temple?

UOP 3 years = $250,000
TEM 4 years ~ $150,000
Click to expand...

Temple's >$250,000 now.

whlee84 said:
man, you guys are making me regret my decision of going to UPenn over stonybrook lol

UPenn tuition $220,000
Stonybrook about $80,000
Click to expand...

Penn's >$330,000 now.
 
Thread is 10 years old. Takes some serious necromancer magic to bring this decomposed body of a thread back from the nether realms. I commend your boredom for reviving a thread that is as interesting as it is.

The future is gonna make my wallet real sad :mad:

But the bright side is the economic collapse (which in all likelihood will include the student loan bubble) will happen. :love:
 
Last edited:
Yeah but I don't know if it will "burst" in time to help us out.
 
If your gonna start resurrecting how bout you bring back those old tuition prices lol
 
The price of some of these schools has gone up by 60% over the past 10 years. Laughable.
 
Interesting factoid: 10 years ago today, Mar 19 2003, we invaded Iraq. I remember watching it all unfold on CNN while studying for a Calc 1 midterm and being buzzed off some very strong coffee. If we only diverted all of that wasted money towards our own people and infrastructure. Hindsight is 20/20, for sure.
 
Last edited:
Tachyon said:
Interesting factoid: 10 years ago today, Mar 19 2003, we invaded Iraq. I remember watching it all unfold on CNN while studying for a Calc 1 midterm and being buzzed off some very strong coffee. If we only diverted all of that wasted money towards our own people and infrastructure. Hindsight is 20/20, for sure.
Click to expand...
Interesting factoid indeed. I was sitting in my living room on the couch with my dad as a sophomore in high school - working on geometry homework. All the while, glancing up to see the "night vision images" of bombs exploding in Iraq.
 
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