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If you have suspicions that your school is near fiscal collapse feel free to post about what led them to this position.
I should ask you the same question!If you have suspicions that your school is near fiscal collapse feel free to post about what led them to this position.
UW is several million in debt, and SIU is or was having some difficulty. I think the school lost some considerable funding last I heard... but this was a year ago and I'm not sure how things panned out. I'm more familiar with the dental school at my alma mater.
UW dental school takes steps to erase $29 million deficit
A year later...
At cost-plagued UW dentistry school, deficit now totals $35 million
Yes. A school can close at a moment's notice and send all staff and students home. Typically staff get some sort of severance package, and students are encouraged to transfer to other programs by requesting their transcripts. Students could also qualify for tuition and fees reimbursement for the courses they didn't complete.Can a school even close if there are students enrolled in a degree program there?
For example, if you are a D1, one would think they'd stop taking applications for the class after yours and let you graduate before shutting their doors...
So they lost another 6 million. They charge double what Texas school charges. Probably overpaying administration. School deans get paid more than the POTUS. Really disgusting.
Half of what you wrote is wrong. Public schools don't make money off of your tuition, so tuition has nothing to do with deficits. Texas is able to charge low tuition because a large majority of graduates will stay in Texas, an investment the government and the State of Texas is willing to take, therefore, more funds are allocated to the school which allow the school to operate comfortably. Second, you would be thoroughly surprised by how much administration makes at a dental school... the admin are really doing you a favor by not going full-time private practice, I can tell you that. Lastly, their dean doesn't make more than the POTUS. The average salary of admin in a dental school is significantly less than $200,000.
Half of what you wrote is wrong. Public schools don't make money off of your tuition, so tuition has nothing to do with deficits. Texas is able to charge low tuition because a large majority of graduates will stay in Texas, an investment the government and the State of Texas is willing to take, therefore, more funds are allocated to the school which allow the school to operate comfortably. Second, you would be thoroughly surprised by how much administration makes at a dental school... the admin are really doing you a favor by not going full-time private practice, I can tell you that. Lastly, their dean doesn't make more than the POTUS. The average salary of admin in a dental school is significantly less than $200,000.
Half of what you wrote is wrong. Public schools don't make money off of your tuition, so tuition has nothing to do with deficits. Texas is able to charge low tuition because a large majority of graduates will stay in Texas, an investment the government and the State of Texas is willing to take, therefore, more funds are allocated to the school which allow the school to operate comfortably. Second, you would be thoroughly surprised by how much administration makes at a dental school... the admin are really doing you a favor by not going full-time private practice, I can tell you that. Lastly, their dean doesn't make more than the POTUS. The average salary of admin in a dental school is significantly less than $200,000.
You can look up all texas public employee salaries at Government Salaries Explorer | The Texas Tribune. Most of our assistant deans make ~$120k. Our dental school dean makes $330k, Dean of UT Health SA makes $701k. So yes, some deans do get paid more than POTUS.
Did you just make all that stuff up??
Here are the salaries of the three dental deans in TX: $385,950, $329,320 and $220,000. Don't forget there are different department heads, and all sorts of administrators.
No, I did not make it up. I'm very well aware of the Texas Salary website. As posters above noted, I pointed out the salary of the dean of UW who makes less than POTUS salary which is noted here: Detailed Table: Dean Salaries - Washington State Employee Salaries - The Spokesman-ReviewThe average salary of admin in a dental school is significantly less than $200,000.
Again, as noted above, decrease in state/local funding would push for public schools to push for higher tuition to make up the costs. Please note that I'm talking about PUBLIC schools and not private. But if you must see what private is up to, I've linked a graph below.Please tell me what changes caused a 40% increase in tuition.
Can a school even close if there are students enrolled in a degree program there?
For example, if you are a D1, one would think they'd stop taking applications for the class after yours and let you graduate before shutting their doors...
Yes. A school can close at a moment's notice and send all staff and students home. Typically staff get some sort of severance package, and students are encouraged to transfer to other programs by requesting their transcripts. Students could also qualify for tuition and fees reimbursement for the courses they didn't complete.
But before things reach a mayhem level, you see a surge of concerned faculty and chatter in staff circles. Students are usually the last to find out and pay the ultimate price.
So for no school has been in such position for over 30 years.
Wow... I did not know that, and that's really heartening to hear that they saw their students through to graduation.Northwestern allowed their existing students to graduate. They announced the closure in 1998 and shut down in 2001.
UW is several million in debt, and SIU is or was having some difficulty. I think the school lost some considerable funding last I heard... but this was a year ago and I'm not sure how things panned out. I'm more familiar with the dental school at my alma mater.
UW dental school takes steps to erase $29 million deficit
A year later...
At cost-plagued UW dentistry school, deficit now totals $35 million
Joel Berg resigned.I heard they were audited recently and the number was closer to $80 million in deficit. They've raised tuition a couple of times and a freeze on raises for faculty. I'm surprised they haven't fired Dean Joel Berg yet...
6 dental schools closed in the late 1980's-1990's due to lack of applicants. They had gone from 12000 applicants to 5000 applicants. Northwestern dean at the time of its shutdown partially looked down on the dental profession, calling it "tooth carpenter".Northwestern allowed their existing students to graduate. They announced the closure in 1998 and shut down in 2001.
I Spoke to someone (faculty) at University of Washington, They're supposedly 40-50m in the red according to a recent meeting they'd had. Supposedly a lot of the faculty quit after they started downsizing specialty programs (which makes sense cuz you dont wanna get laid off if you can just quit and work elsewhere). Supposedly the students are surviving and were in good spirits (according to this guy, maybe someone here can chime in a little better). What I've heard is that if they close the program they'll finish out the current students while quitting admissions.
I go to OHSU. I havent heard anything about money issues, and if there are any they're very closed lips about it. IDK where the above poster got their info about being a few million in the red, and it would surprise me since the school is part of the rest of the hospital and is doing pretty well from what I know, unless they've overstepped their bounds on some of the other program expansions (OHSU Knight cancer institute just recently opened up next door) I'd love to see anything to the contrary however.
I just cannot understand how a dental school can lose money unless they're literally just overspending the crap out of the 100k every year they get from every student they admit into the programs. It only takes faculty, materials, and a building. Hell, you even get money back to pay for some of the faculty by selling dentistry in the clinics with free student labor and 1 doctor faculty to every 5-10 students. If dental schools could make it work 10-15 years ago for 1/3 the cost and still stay in business, how can it have worsened at current school tuition costs?
They are much cheaper to run because they aren’t maintaining their own clinic spaces. Think about it, during medical school you are doing your clinical rotations at a hospital that is not being supported by the medical school. Essentially, medical schools just need lecture halls to operate. Also, that money coming in from dental school patients very often is through Medicaid which has terrible reimbursement rates.You don’t hear about medical schools, nursing, etc schools closing down.
They are much cheaper to run because they aren’t maintaining their own clinic spaces. Think about it, during medical school you are doing your clinical rotations at a hospital that is not being supported by the medical school. Essentially, medical schools just need lecture halls to operate. Also, that money coming in from dental school patients very often is through Medicaid which has terrible reimbursement rates.
Big Hoss
Still doesn’t explain how they can’t operate now when they could years ago when tuition was much lower. Also, what’s so expensive about running a dental clinic staffed with free labor? Maybe schools shouldn’t focus on having the fanciest and most expensive facilities and tech.
These kind of info are pretty secretive unless you are on first-name basis with one of the associate deans or department chairs.I Spoke to someone (faculty) at University of Washington, They're supposedly 40-50m in the red according to a recent meeting they'd had. Supposedly a lot of the faculty quit after they started downsizing specialty programs (which makes sense cuz you dont wanna get laid off if you can just quit and work elsewhere). Supposedly the students are surviving and were in good spirits (according to this guy, maybe someone here can chime in a little better). What I've heard is that if they close the program they'll finish out the current students while quitting admissions.
I go to OHSU. I havent heard anything about money issues, and if there are any they're very closed lips about it. IDK where the above poster got their info about being a few million in the red, and it would surprise me since the school is part of the rest of the hospital and is doing pretty well from what I know, unless they've overstepped their bounds on some of the other program expansions (OHSU Knight cancer institute just recently opened up next door) I'd love to see anything to the contrary however.
I just cannot understand how a dental school can lose money unless they're literally just overspending the crap out of the 100k every year they get from every student they admit into the programs. It only takes faculty, materials, and a building. Hell, you even get money back to pay for some of the faculty by selling dentistry in the clinics with free student labor and 1 doctor faculty to every 5-10 students. If dental schools could make it work 10-15 years ago for 1/3 the cost and still stay in business, how can it have worsened at current school tuition costs?
Why would medicaid patients choose to get dental services at a dental school when it is much easier/faster to obtain services at your neighborhood doc?They are much cheaper to run because they aren’t maintaining their own clinic spaces. Think about it, during medical school you are doing your clinical rotations at a hospital that is not being supported by the medical school. Essentially, medical schools just need lecture halls to operate. Also, that money coming in from dental school patients very often is through Medicaid which has terrible reimbursement rates.
Big Hoss
Why would medicaid patients choose to get dental services at a dental school when it is much easier/faster to obtain services at your neighborhood doc?
Why would medicaid patients choose to get dental services at a dental school when it is much easier/faster to obtain services at your neighborhood doc?
When the student loan bubble finally bursts, there will very likely be some expensive schools that don't survive. Not so much a question of if, but when.
Big Hoss
Edit: Thought some more about this. The first to fall will probably be these crazy expensive private schools that aren't attached to much larger university systems - Roseman and the like come to mind. Without the resources large universities may provide, they will not be able to weather a collapse in tuition.[/QUOT
Quite the contrary, actually, I would imagine. Why do you think so many private dental schools have popped up across the country? Because they're profitable and don't depend on tax payer subsidies to operate. You are terribly misinformed in regards to the student loan bubble - it will certainly burst at some point, but the schools will still have gotten paid. The people on the hook for the defaulted / "forgiven" student loan debt due to IBR and PAYE is the average Joe taxpayer in the end. As long as graduate students are able and willing to borrow any amount of cash from the gov (at an lol bargain of 6.8%) to fund their education, private, 'non profit' (read: distribute profits in different, yet totally legal ways) dental schools will continue to open until the market reaches an equilibrium. Many of these private institutions carry a AAA rating on their bonds according to S&P and Moodys FYI (which is pretty good. Right up there next to the ultimate safe haven of USA T-bonds. That essentially means that the people who determine the riskiness of getting your capital back have placed private dental institutions at the same level of riskiness as the united states government in the ability to repay a loan). I would presume many of the admin docs at several public schools (and I'm sure some private schools, as well) that are running their programs directly towards bankruptcy are the same ones that couldn't/never attempted to successfully own or operate a single dentist private practice. Who could've imagined that they would also be unsuccessful in running a program with 70 docs and a budget that is larger by orders of magnitude?