Dentist in a Rural Township in Need of Physicians

[AimlessAmbition]

Hello all. My name is Jack, and I am looking for some advice on a rather odd situation. I have been practicing dentistry in a semi-rural New York township for 10 years now. I love my work, but lately, an increasing number of patients are coming in with compromised health, in an untreated state. This is disheartening because the 3 local physicians are booked solid and there is only one hospital within a 30 mile radius. Sadly, patients ask me for advice, when I really have a limited amount to offer them since I am a dentist rather than a physician.

I am currently married, 42 years old, with children that are 8 and 10 (in school full time). Medicine has always interested me but I steered away from it for a few reasons including time, insurance dictating treatment, lawsuits and undergraduate grades. I did fall in love with dentistry, but now more than ever I realize that my patients need additional care. I would love to serve primarily as a dentist, but be able to provide them with medical care as well when necessary. I have become quite versed over the years in the function and mechanistics of Internal Medicine and have conducted quite a bit of biomedical cancer research. Here is my situation and what I need advice on:

My undergraduate GPA was very low as a biology major. My cGPA was a 2.87 and my sGPA was 2.56 (this was back in 1987). Subsequently I completed a masters program in biochemistry with a 3.58 GPA (Graduated in 1990). I was fortunate that at the time, dental school was not as competitive as it is now or I fear I would have NEVER gotten in. In dental school, my GPA was a 3.31 (graduated in 2000). I recently took the MCATs and received a 32.

There are only 3 institutions in NY that are close enough for me to attend and they are ALL MD programs (not DO programs). I can't leave the state because of personal reasons and I need to maintain my dental license. Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I contact the schools? Do you think my undergraduate GPA will kill my chances even though it was 20 years ago? Do you think they would hear my case? I want to do this for the good of my patients. It is killing me to see the state they are in, with no help in sight. It is becoming depressing. PLEASE, any suggestions are appreciated.

Sincerely,
Jack

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[chizledfrmstone]

This has to be one of the most amazing posts I've ever seen!

At 42 years old a Dentist is considering Medical School. That's some ambition right there!

 

[Phoenix.]

AimlessAmbition: I'm moving your post to the non-traditional forum where I think you'll get the most helpful advice, from people that are closer to your situation.

Your age shouldn't be a reason not to pursue medicine - there are lots of other SDNers here who can tell you that it can still be done at your age if you're dedicated and determined. As for your gpa, my gut would be that it's rather low for MD schools. Maybe some other nontrads on here can weigh in on how grades from many many years ago are taken into account. Obviously your best bet for acceptance would be a DO school, but if that's absolutely not an option, the best advice I can think of is to make an appointment with admissions counselors at each of those three MD schools you mentioned, tell them your situation/stats and see what they say. Since those are your target schools, give them a call. If they give you the green light, I'd suggest studying for and KILLING the MCAT as best you can. And take any classes that those schools recommend. They may want to see As in recent science courses. Or they may not. If all three are state schools, I would think you stand a much better shot - given that they prefer residents (a private school would be harder to get into).

I think you'll write an excellent personal statement, and hopefully can drum up some excellent letters of recommendation (you will also want to ask the schools if they *NEED* college/science prof letters of recs even if you're a seasoned non-trad, or if they'll take work/volunteer LORs instead). I would love to think that you can do this, but since you're limited to three schools.... Hopefully they'll be willing to work with you and give you some great advice and tips on how you can make this happen. Good luck!

 

[postbacker]

This has to be a hoax...

 

[TarHeel55]

One of the med schools I interviewed at (Case Western Reserve) has a joint M.D.-D.M.D. program. As the program was explained to us, it is geared towards people who are interested in integrating aspects of primary care medicine into general dentistry practice. Exactly what the O.P. is talking about. Given the dearth of primary care providers in some regions of this country, the O.P.'s vision makes perfect sense to me.

 

[AimlessAmbition]

Thank you for some encouraging responses. They were very interesting to read through and learn from. As far as this having to be a hoax, I assure you I would not have wasted my time writing such a long question if that were true. Making up something like this, which I have seen first hand, would be heartless and flat out DISGUSTING. Furthermore if this has any impact, my BCP and cum. GPA now is around 3.2 most likely because of the grad and dental school work. Would that make any difference? Good luck to you all and thank you.

Jack

 

[DrMidlife]

Graduate and professional school coursework is kept separate from undergrad, in how AMCAS presents your GPAs. Unfortunately your undergrad GPA is more important than grad/pro GPAs. Since you're being compared to about 5000 21-24 year olds, per school, they have no choice but to look at your undergrad GPA and MCAT first and foremost. Schools are used to nontrad applicants, but you're not going to find any preferential treatment.

Look hard for programs that will have an eyeball round after the autoscreen round; like me, you won't do well until a human looks at your app. If you're going to get rejected by a formula, don't waste your time. The more widely you can apply, the better - can you broaden your range to include Boston, NJ, Philly etc.?

There *are* DO schools in New York, and it's possible that these schools will be more flexible with you than the MD schools. Your best buddies on the MD side are undoubtedly Albany, Valhalla and Buffalo. Also note that a number of schools (particularly DO) have rural tracks that send you home after the first 2 years of med school.

In my opinion, I think you're an interesting enough character that I wouldn't spend any more time on coursework or retaking the MCAT. You might look into getting a consultant to buff your app (somebody like Judy Colwell). But there's no way for us to tell you how you're going to be perceived when it comes down to the intangibles that are going to make or break you. I would not try to rush an app out this year; I would wait until June '08 to apply, with all your i's dotted and t's crossed at that time.

All that said, I really hope you make it. Best of luck to you, and do keep us posted.

 

[thoffen]

If you are only interested in primary care, might there be a Physician's Assistant program in New York. Bear in mind, I do not know the laws governing PA's in NY, and if you would need to find a doctor locally that would employ you. It is another route to consider, though.

 

[medhacker]

OP recently took the MCAT and got a 32

Why is everyone recommending he retakes?

 

[AimlessAmbition]

If you are only interested in primary care, might there be a Physician's Assistant program in New York. Bear in mind, I do not know the laws governing PA's in NY, and if you would need to find a doctor locally that would employ you. It is another route to consider, though.

I don't think you read my situation. Thank you though. I am a dentist. There are only 3 physicians and one hospital nearby. My patients are coming to me for medical help that I cannot give them because the 3 MDs in town are booked solid and I am a dentist. I want to continue my dental practice, but open my scope to medical treatment as well for my desperate and at times ill patients. It is terrible to see them in such dire need with so few treatment options.

It isn't about finding any route into medicine possible. I am in the medical profession. I just think that I am needed in a greater capacity.

 

[DrMidlife]

OP recently took the MCAT and got a 32

Why is everyone recommending he retakes?

I recommended against retaking.

Note, however, that a 32 MCAT is below the matriculant average at 37 schools. It's good, but it's not THAT good.

 

[notdeadyet]

I recommended against retaking.

Good. Retaking on a 32 is insane. Statistically, your odds of going down are much better than going up.

OP- Judy Colwell is a great consultant to use. I'd highly recommend her. She does wonderful things with non-traditional applicants. I used her and she did wonders for me.

Also, look in to the NY schools and ask if they have a policy of expiration of prereqs. At several med schools, if you prereqs (1 year bio/gen chem/ochem/physics) are over 10 years old, you must repeat them. You should sort this out right away.

Best of luck. I'm a 35yo MS I and loving it.

 

[DrMidlife]

Also, look in to the NY schools and ask if they have a policy of expiration of prereqs. At several med schools, if you prereqs (1 year bio/gen chem/ochem/physics) are over 10 years old, you must repeat them. You should sort this out right away.

But don't freak, OP!!! It's cool, probably!!! I took physics 20 years ago and none of the 34 schools I applied to gave me any grief about it. Definitely look into it, but expiration of prereqs is the exception, not the rule.

 

[Law2Doc]

Note, however, that a 32 MCAT is below the matriculant average at 37 schools. It's good, but it's not THAT good.

There are no schools that won't interview someone simply because he only has a 32 (assuming it's a balanced one, and not like a 14,14, 4). The fact that matriculant average is higher is sort of irrelevant -- the game will be won or lost based on non-MCAT things for any applicant with a 32. You just need an MCAT good enough to get the other stuff looked at, and this is such a score.

 

[DrMidlife]

There are no schools that won't interview someone simply because he only has a 32 (assuming it's a balanced one, and not like a 14,14, 4). The fact that matriculant average is higher is sort of irrelevant -- the game will be won or lost based on non-MCAT things for any applicant with a 32. You just need an MCAT good enough to get the other stuff looked at, and this is such a score.

That would be fair, but I don't think it' s true. I've been rejected, pre-interview, at 17 of my 34 schools now, with a 31O and a 3.1 overall GPA. That includes GW, Georgetown, VCU and EVMS, that seemed within reach, based on the stories we see here. I was complete by October 1, my package is good, and I have a screened in-state interview that other in-states were denied, so I'm assuming I don't completely suck as a candidate.

So in the context of the OP's story, where his 32 is up against a sub-3.0 GPA, my point in saying that a 32 is "not that great" is to put it in context. In my opinion it does little, if not nothing, to offset the GPA. It doesn't make the candidate stick out, and I don't think it's going to get him interviews. His story will get him interviews.

My $.02 to be taken w/bucket o'salt.

 

[MeowMix]

I think it's fantastic that you recognize your pts' medical needs and want to address them. I'm not sure that your going to med school is the best way to do that. Even if you do family med, which is only a 3-yr residency, you will be in for at least 7 years of school and training, with at least a million dollars of lost income and accumulated student loans. It is a very expensive decision to make, with profound consequences.

More than that, you seem to enjoy your work as a dentist. Med school will be long and painful for you and your family. In my opinion, your community might be best served by a community effort to recruit physicians.

 

[OncoCaP]

Jack,

I'm a few years younger than you and an MS1. I have a family with kids. I gave up a very nice career to go back with an analogous line of thinking to yours (but no GPA issues), and I'm loving med school right now. It's very nice opportunity under the right circumstances. I have had money saved up and my spouse has a great job. Without the financial side in order and a confident thumbs up from my wife, I would not have even considered going to medical school.

My advice is this: start taking some pre-med (undergrad) courses and work on getting your undergrad GPA up. Your graduate GPA is largely irrelevant for this process (although everything helps a little). You will need to compete with other pre-meds on undergraduate GPA, MCAT, etc. Don't expect to be given any slack when it comes to meeting pre-med requirements for getting into med school. When it comes time to apply (a couple of years from now probably), be sure to apply far and wide unless you have good stats. When it comes time to apply, you should be 100% committed and serious about doing what it takes to make it through. If you aren't even open to going to another state, I would seriously question your commitment because you may be in the same state, but you'll be in hibernation for all practical purposes for several months at a time. Remember you can always turn an offer down. If you have nothing after applying, you'll need to reapply, which is a huge minus (you'll be damaged goods).

Altogether, this is going to take 10 years between post-bach classes, med school, residency. Can you give up the $1 million+ in lost income plus additional expenses? Do you realize you'll miss on a lot of experiences with your children? How supportive is your spouse about this? Do you have money saved up or does your wife / significant other work outside the home? Still want to do this? You're all set then to get started on your pre-med classes, and you'll probably make an excellent physician down the road.

Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

All the best,
Onco.

 

[AimlessAmbition]

Medicine now is something I would want to do for the reason I stated above. I always had an intense interest in medicine. Internal medicine particularly interests me. I have read countless books and journals to stay on top just so that I can advise my dental patients as to if something they are presenting would potentially be enough concern to travel outside of our community to have it looked at.

The reason I am not willing to relocate is not an indication that I do not want to practice medicine that badly. Moreover, my children are settled in school here and my wife in a pretty decent job that she loves and I cannot ask her to leave. She followed me to dental school and we have a savings and investments that allow us to make decent money even while I am in school. Most likely I would have to wait a few years to try this out, but I am wondering if it is worthwhile to meet with some of the medical schools I am interested in and see what I can do to help my case.

I have also read about programs where they will allow dental students who have taken the core medical science courses (histology, physiology, anatomy, biochem etc) to apply to medical school and only have to go through the final 2 years. This is true too for the oral surgery programs in dentistry. Will they let practicing dentists do that as well? I have about a 3.5 in the basic medical science courses I took in dental school, but that was long ago.

 

[size_tens]

I don't think you read my situation. Thank you though. I am a dentist. There are only 3 physicians and one hospital nearby. My patients are coming to me for medical help that I cannot give them because the 3 MDs in town are booked solid and I am a dentist. I want to continue my dental practice, but open my scope to medical treatment as well for my desperate and at times ill patients. It is terrible to see them in such dire need with so few treatment options.

It isn't about finding any route into medicine possible. I am in the medical profession. I just think that I am needed in a greater capacity.

Why you are so quick to dismiss the PA route? To me it actually seems like it would be a pretty viable option for someone in your situation. Going through PA training would certainly allow you to offer medical advice for most of the more common medical problems that you are likely to encounter. There's no way that reading journals or texts can compare with the sort of hands-on clinical experience involved in PA or med school.

 

[AimlessAmbition]

Why you are so quick to dismiss the PA route? To me it actually seems like it would be a pretty viable option for someone in your situation. Going through PA training would certainly allow you to offer medical advice for most of the more common medical problems that you are likely to encounter. There's no way that reading journals or texts can compare with the sort of hands-on clinical experience involved in PA or med school.

I appreciate the suggestion of course, but with the problem being that some of my patients are unable to get spots with the physicians in town due to either overbooking or insurance issues, I would need to assist in that way to be helpful. This means not only prescribing, but if I was a PA I would have to work under the eye of an MD or DO and there simply are not any that I haven't mentioned. 3 physicians in town, all overbooked. My patients need a physician, not an assistant.

Jack

 

[postbacker]

I still think this is a hoax thread, but in case it isn't, this is to the OP - you say you have a critical shortage of docs in your rural area and this is your motivation to become a doc, and that is all well and good, but...it will take you at least 10 years to "fill this need" in your backwater community, so it seems to me that your time might be better spent in collaboration with your fellow "health care professionals" and community leaders to lure doctors to your area, maybe form a committee, etc...does your state have any tuition reimbursement programs for docs who choose to do primary care in underserved rural areas? Maybe somebody (you?) should approach your elected officials about this...your altruism is praiseworthy, but what will the hicks do for docs in the meantime?

 

[thoffen]

I don't think you read my situation. Thank you though. I am a dentist. There are only 3 physicians and one hospital nearby. My patients are coming to me for medical help that I cannot give them because the 3 MDs in town are booked solid and I am a dentist. I want to continue my dental practice, but open my scope to medical treatment as well for my desperate and at times ill patients. It is terrible to see them in such dire need with so few treatment options.

It isn't about finding any route into medicine possible. I am in the medical profession. I just think that I am needed in a greater capacity.

I think you ought to look into what a physician assistant does. I have no knowledge of the regulations in New York, but you might want to look into it. It may provide you with exactly what you seek, only requiring an MD to overlook your practice/treatments, possibly wholly by phone.

 

[OncoCaP]

I appreciate the suggestion of course, but with the problem being that some of my patients are unable to get spots with the physicians in town due to either overbooking or insurance issues, I would need to assist in that way to be helpful. This means not only prescribing, but if I was a PA I would have to work under the eye of an MD or DO and there simply are not any that I haven't mentioned. 3 physicians in town, all overbooked. My patients need a physician, not an assistant.

Jack

Jack,

Have you thought about what it would take to attract a physician to your community? It's going to be 1000% easier to recruit a physician to community than it is for you to go through 10 years of post-bach, applying, medical school, residency to then come back and serve your community. If you provided a financial incentive, worked to open a new clinic, etc., you could see results more quickly and your community wouldn't lose a (possibly excellent) dentist. In addition, what if your community needs more than one physician or a physician after you retire? Recruiting is more flexible in the sense that you could bring more than one physician to your area if required.

In addition, I would say based on my limited experience with people going through medical educatoin, your chances of going through this process and coming back to community to serve as a country doctor are relatively low. If you went back through the medical education system, it's possible that you might become some type of surgical specialist, for example, and never see your little community again (there would be many more ways to end up someplace else than in your community).

Moreover, if you figure out a good way to attract a physician to your community, you might be able to help other communities that are trying to figure out how to do the same thing you are concerned with (recruiting rural physicians). Your gov't at the local/state level might even be willing to fund inititative(s) in this respect ... you could be that catalyst that makes it happen in a way that would be difficult if you were studying in medical school (limited time to do politics).

OncoCap

 

[saylorsdad]

Rual medicine is pretty tough to find people to fill the gaps. I know that in Southeastern Oklahoma there are plenty of town with population of around 5000 with 15000+ in a county that have three doctors. They are booked to say the least. I can imagine that there are plenty of places like this, and with the incentive to go and work long hours seeing hundreds of patients. And not being able to go out in public "not a problem in big city" without running into your patients at the Grocery store. Rual medicine is pretty tough, if this guy wants to do that and understands what he wants I say go for it.

I would personally hate to be a dentist, never saw a kid yet who liked their dentist. Plus have you ever smelt really bad breath, now try that every day of your life!

 

[ocddoc]

I would contact Case Western since they seem to offer a lot of flexibility to their students. Ask to speak with the dean about doing your clinical years through a distance arrangement. Since they already have a combined DDS/MD program, they may be able to admit you to that program with advanced standing. I think it's definitely worth a try.

The U of MN - twin cities also gives credit to students for medical coursework they have already completed in other programs. Usually these students are PhD's. I don't think the U of MN would be as flexible in terms of allowing you to do your clinical years through a distance arrangement because they are a state school.

Good luck to you! I think a combined DDS/MD sounds like a wonderful resource for a rural community to have.

 

[alpha62]

I appreciate the suggestion of course, but with the problem being that some of my patients are unable to get spots with the physicians in town due to either overbooking or insurance issues, I would need to assist in that way to be helpful. This means not only prescribing, but if I was a PA I would have to work under the eye of an MD or DO and there simply are not any that I haven't mentioned. 3 physicians in town, all overbooked. My patients need a physician, not an assistant.

Jack

The pt population you describe should be happy with what ever they get. Believe me, you have good insurance, you'd be amazed at how quickly you can find a doctor these days.

If the other 3 doc in town aren't laughing at you behind your back, they're cussing you for what sounds like somebody that will drag down the fee schedule for everybody in town.

I worked Rural for a long time. You from that little town ?

 

[Tekar]

Assuming you're still monitoring...You have a golden opportunity for investment here. You can maintain your dentistry in a very limited capacity while attending medical school (hell the med students might even use youre service), and upon completion be able to provide two of the most basic but necessary roles in a rural community.. Dentistry and Family Practice... all in the same office... I don't see how you aren't already making arrangements. You're a Dentist.. You're GPA is irrelevant compared to the life experience and reasoning behind your decision to attend medical school... I figure you probably have a few physician friends at a minimum.. get a hold of them for letters and get a move on.

Picture this.. an annual physical combined with an annual cleaning in the same office... as a patient, father, husband, etc dealing with the daily grind before medical school becomes my hourly grind,, you'd be a God send for our family. I could get vaccinations done in the same office where my 3 and 9 year old are getting their teeth cleaned by your hygenist, and my Freshman in high school could be getting his athletic physical. (I only have the 3 and 9 Year old... but you get the point)

You're onto something here....seriously... AT the very least, this is a model that someone should consider as a multi-disciplinary approach... wow!!!


Because I actually read more of the forum...I figure you've already established a semi-secure financial situation in life.. You'd be showing your kids so much more by actually doing this than keeping them in a Dentist lifestyle, etc. Downsize your home, Tell your wife to get a job (assuming she doesnt') to offset the loans a bit and lost earnings be damned... any fool in California who bought a 3 Bed 2 Bath new home for 800k only to see the house next door auction for 250k can tell you about lost income..

Naysayers be damned.. I like your motivation, your concept, and what you are doing.. Screw anyone who tells you otherwise.. www.ammcas.org Get a move on.

P.S. I'd join you in that practice as an ER doc to make it a 24 acute care facility as well.. Get that.. Dental, Family and ER in the same small town.

 

[alpha62]

Assuming you're still monitoring...You have a golden opportunity for investment here. You can maintain your dentistry in a very limited capacity while attending medical school (hell the med students might even use youre service), and upon completion be able to provide two of the most basic but necessary roles in a rural community.. Dentistry and Family Practice... all in the same office... I don't see how you aren't already making arrangements. You're a Dentist.. You're GPA is irrelevant compared to the life experience and reasoning behind your decision to attend medical school... I figure you probably have a few physician friends at a minimum.. get a hold of them for letters and get a move on.

Picture this.. an annual physical combined with an annual cleaning in the same office... as a patient, father, husband, etc dealing with the daily grind before medical school becomes my hourly grind,, you'd be a God send for our family. I could get vaccinations done in the same office where my 3 and 9 year old are getting their teeth cleaned by your hygenist, and my Freshman in high school could be getting his athletic physical. (I only have the 3 and 9 Year old... but you get the point)

You're onto something here....seriously... AT the very least, this is a model that someone should consider as a multi-disciplinary approach... wow!!!


Because I actually read more of the forum...I figure you've already established a semi-secure financial situation in life.. You'd be showing your kids so much more by actually doing this than keeping them in a Dentist lifestyle, etc. Downsize your home, Tell your wife to get a job (assuming she doesnt') to offset the loans a bit and lost earnings be damned... any fool in California who bought a 3 Bed 2 Bath new home for 800k only to see the house next door auction for 250k can tell you about lost income..

Naysayers be damned.. I like your motivation, your concept, and what you are doing.. Screw anyone who tells you otherwise.. www.ammcas.org Get a move on.

P.S. I'd join you in that practice as an ER doc to make it a 24 acute care facility as well.. Get that.. Dental, Family and ER in the same small town.

I think what you're describing is a Medicaid Mill.

The next thing you know, every kid in town will be walking around with stainless still caps on his teeth looking the Jaws guy on a James Bond movie and the Similac Sample guy backing up to your office every friday.

Nice.

 

[Tekar]

I think what you're describing is a Medicaid Mill.

The next thing you know, every kid in town will be walking around with stainless still caps on his teeth looking the Jaws guy on a James Bond movie and the Similac Sample guy backing up to your office every friday.

Nice.

Thank you Captain Positive.. if you are currently a Doctor, it's no wonder our system is screwed up

It would seem that you lack the knowledge of the way the working class world functions.. I said nothing of Medicaid, yet you brought it into the conversation. Being a two parent, commuting, working household, living in a bedroom community with no services, scheduling each of these appointments is a nightmare. Each of those appointments require my wife or I to take sick days, usually the entire day because of the messed up timing of the physicians offices and their 1:30 lunches. For teachers, that means sub plans and the cross your fingers and hope someone competent took your classroom, only to come back and find out your class was obnoxious and the sub accomplished nothing.. assuming there was one.

The pt population you describe should be happy with what ever they get. Believe me, you have good insurance, you'd be amazed at how quickly you can find a doctor these days.

This is unbelievable.... happy with what you get.. I do truly love the fact that when my kids have to stay home sick, its a crapshoot to get into the pediatricians office. Good insurance...you're ignorance of the system is either so pessimistic or complete ignorance. Finding a Doctor that'll add you to their roles is easy enough, actually getting in to see the the actual doctor for more than 5 seconds in a meaningful timeframe in such a way that works for our schedule.. not so much

Since insurance companies do such a great job of covering medications and vaccines, samples can sometimes be the difference between medications and no medications, yet you attack the capitalistic methods of a sales rep dropping off samples for potential customers. It's unfortunate you hate what you do so much..

If you don't like what you do, find another profession. If you aren't a physician yet.. don't bother.

​

 

[alpha62]

Thank you Captain Positive.. if you are currently a Doctor, it's no wonder our system is screwed up

It would seem that you lack the knowledge of the way the working class world functions.. I said nothing of Medicaid, yet you brought it into the conversation. Being a two parent, commuting, working household, living in a bedroom community with no services, scheduling each of these appointments is a nightmare. Each of those appointments require my wife or I to take sick days, usually the entire day because of the messed up timing of the physicians offices and their 1:30 lunches. For teachers, that means sub plans and the cross your fingers and hope someone competent took your classroom, only to come back and find out your class was obnoxious and the sub accomplished nothing.. assuming there was one.



This is unbelievable.... happy with what you get.. I do truly love the fact that when my kids have to stay home sick, its a crapshoot to get into the pediatricians office. Good insurance...you're ignorance of the system is either so pessimistic or complete ignorance. Finding a Doctor that'll add you to their roles is easy enough, actually getting in to see the the actual doctor for more than 5 seconds in a meaningful timeframe in such a way that works for our schedule.. not so much

Since insurance companies do such a great job of covering medications and vaccines, samples can sometimes be the difference between medications and no medications, yet you attack the capitalistic methods of a sales rep dropping off samples for potential customers. It's unfortunate you hate what you do so much..

If you don't like what you do, find another profession. If you aren't a physician yet.. don't bother.

​

Just a PA that worked RHC clinics. Seen this before and I was doing rural care while you were probably still in diapers.

Anyway you slice it, you're going to have to see twice as many patients 5 years from now than you are right now for the same amount of money.

BTW, the dentist in my small town was a cash up front slime ball that used to turn little kids away. They came over to my office and I had to give them samples of ABX as temp. fix. Please don't lecture me about samples.

Funny thing about young guys, no matter how much schooling they've had, they already think they know everything by the time they're 25.

 

[Tekar]

Good thing I"m not 25, single, inexperienced in life...and you're still bitter and condescending...and yes... I will see twice as many patients in 5 years...But we have your generation to thank for the screwed up status of health care as it stands.. don't lecture me about "diapers" when our generation has been handed the disaster of a social context upon which the system you "experienced" folks created to try and make some kind of a living.

I still say if you're bitter and hate what you do so much that you troll message boards of physicians to be that you still should move on... unless you're bitter that all the people on these boards are taking the plunge while you're still taking orders from new physicians who were in diapers while you were handing out samples...


Jaded bitter whiners who hate what they do are nothing but a burden on everyone around them...

 

[Phoenix.]

Everyone, please keep this discussion civil. Thanks.

 

[primadonna22274]

Jack, welcome to the forum.
I'm a PA. I would not recommend you go PA for quite a few reasons: namely, you need a supervising physician and you already have a problem not having enough doctors in your area. Doubtful that any of the 3 docs booked solid are going to sign up unless they're really enlightened on how much a PA can make their life easier. Also, PA salaries in New York are terribly low compared to elsewhere. You would literally make a fourth of what you make as a dentist (my best guess).
Now, you want to combine dentistry with the practice of medicine, right? IF you had a great relationship with a supervising physician this might work as a PA. Problem is you've been used to being an independent provider. I think it would be very hard to assume the role of a dependent provider (PA) after years of practicing solo.
I don't think it's crazy for you to go full-boar medicine. Assuming you've made a decent living as a dentist and can afford to live on savings (and you can work a little in med school if you are flexible, and hey, wouldn't your patients love Saturday morning hours and a few evenings?) it's doable.
If it's not crazy for me as a PA to consider med school, it's no more crazy for you as a dentist to consider it. We have similar opportunity costs--you more so since you have children which I don't. I do have a history teacher husband who makes very little money but has good benefits. Keep in mind it's highly likely you would have to go away from home for residency even if you could do med school near home.
I wish you the best. Ignore the naysayers.
Lisa

 

[Dr. Dai Phan]

Hello all. My name is Jack, and I am looking for some advice on a rather odd situation. I have been practicing dentistry in a semi-rural New York township for 10 years now. I love my work, but lately, an increasing number of patients are coming in with compromised health, in an untreated state. This is disheartening because the 3 local physicians are booked solid and there is only one hospital within a 30 mile radius. Sadly, patients ask me for advice, when I really have a limited amount to offer them since I am a dentist rather than a physician.

I am currently married, 42 years old, with children that are 8 and 10 (in school full time). Medicine has always interested me but I steered away from it for a few reasons including time, insurance dictating treatment, lawsuits and undergraduate grades. I did fall in love with dentistry, but now more than ever I realize that my patients need additional care. I would love to serve primarily as a dentist, but be able to provide them with medical care as well when necessary. I have become quite versed over the years in the function and mechanistics of Internal Medicine and have conducted quite a bit of biomedical cancer research. Here is my situation and what I need advice on:

My undergraduate GPA was very low as a biology major. My cGPA was a 2.87 and my sGPA was 2.56 (this was back in 1987). Subsequently I completed a masters program in biochemistry with a 3.58 GPA (Graduated in 1990). I was fortunate that at the time, dental school was not as competitive as it is now or I fear I would have NEVER gotten in. In dental school, my GPA was a 3.31 (graduated in 2000). I recently took the MCATs and received a 32.

There are only 3 institutions in NY that are close enough for me to attend and they are ALL MD programs (not DO programs). I can't leave the state because of personal reasons and I need to maintain my dental license. Does anyone have any suggestions? Should I contact the schools? Do you think my undergraduate GPA will kill my chances even though it was 20 years ago? Do you think they would hear my case? I want to do this for the good of my patients. It is killing me to see the state they are in, with no help in sight. It is becoming depressing. PLEASE, any suggestions are appreciated.

Sincerely,
Jack

Here is my take on this debate. I think that it is very noble for the OP to seek medical degree to help his rural patients. I think that if the OP wants to provide medicine in addition to dentistry, then there are ways for him to achieve his goal without difficulty based on his credentials.

1. Consider PA school. Todays, PAs play a big role in handling routine medical problems and they are doing exellent job at it. I have seen a PA for many problems and I must say that the service is the same or better than many MDs that I have seen.

2. Consider D.O schools. A physician is a physician and there is not a lick of difference between them. With the OP's stats, he has more chance of getting admitted than a traditional MD school.

3. Off-shore MD schools. As you all know, these schools offer the best chance to become physicians if the stats are not adequate enough for US medical schools. After you finish your residency in the States, you will be as competent to provide medicine to your patients as any of the US graduates.

So there are many options for the OP to fulfill his dream of providing medicine to his patients. Now, if a person insists only on US MD schools, then I think there is more motives than what it is stated here. DP