Dentistry can be a grind. The whole work life balance thing is overrated

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Batmansvoice

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There are many other professions that pay similarly or more that don’t have the headaches dentistry has. I remember most of my classmates saying they chose dentistry due to the hours and workload MDs have to deal with. But looking at dentistry not sure it is much better. The median pay is obviously much worse. But it seems only a few of us dentists are willing to acknowledge this. Saving face is unfortunately a big thing in our profession.

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There are many other professions that pay similarly or more that don’t have the headaches dentistry has. I remember most of my classmates saying they chose dentistry due to the hours and workload MDs have to deal with. But looking at dentistry not sure it is much better. The median pay is obviously much worse. But it seems only a few of us dentists are willing to acknowledge this. Saving face is unfortunately a big thing in our profession.

I disagree. I think we dentists have it pretty good compared to other professions. I don't know if you're an associate or not, but perhaps maybe you're in the wrong office? You have to find the right fit.

Anyway, I've noticed this seems to be a trend here on SDN with all the negativity and "doom and gloom" not just in the dentistry but elsewhere on other forums (optometry, pharmacy, etc). I don't regret being a dentist even though it ain't perfect.
 
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There are many other professions that pay similarly or more that don’t have the headaches dentistry has. I remember most of my classmates saying they chose dentistry due to the hours and workload MDs have to deal with. But looking at dentistry not sure it is much better. The median pay is obviously much worse. But it seems only a few of us dentists are willing to acknowledge this. Saving face is unfortunately a big thing in our profession.

Dentistry is a grind, that's for sure. That's why dentists need to be more productive with their time. I'm hearing from assistants that we hire that there's some dentists out there that take 30 mins to an hour for a single interproximal. For those that practice dentistry like that, the profession will definitely feel like a grind and the pay will definitely be terrible.

I think that dentistry will feel like a grind, regardless, because it is horrendously repetitive. However, the profitability varies so much depending on the speed of the operator. The key is to be fast, limit your procedures to profitable ones, make lots of money, and limit your hours. I work 30 hours a week, but make more money than when I worked 34 hours a week. Sure, it's still a grind, but it's hard to find a profession where you can make 1500-3k+/hour.
 
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Being a dentist is not without challenges. I feel disappointment when I hear predents/dental students say they went into dentistry because they perceive it to be easier, or more relaxed, than medicine. This is because it's not true and they'll likely be unhappy. It's a difficult job that requires a lot of knowledge and clinical skills. DO NOT become a dentist unless you are really interested interested in dentistry. There are too many other things to spend your talents and time on that you may actually like. IMO if you're not up for a challenging profession than you should not be a physician or dentist.

Sometimes I feel that we dentists, as a group, focus too much on ourselves and not the duties of the job. Why is it that people are so concerned with work-life without considering what being a dentist is really about? It all strikes me as egotistical and entitled.
 
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This profession is a mission. If you don't like your situation, change it. There are thousands of other opportunities.
 
i went into dentistry primarily for the autonomy, but that seems to be quickly eroding away
 
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Dentistry is a grind, that's for sure. That's why dentists need to be more productive with their time. I'm hearing from assistants that we hire that there's some dentists out there that take 30 mins to an hour for a single interproximal. For those that practice dentistry like that, the profession will definitely feel like a grind and the pay will definitely be terrible.

I think that dentistry will feel like a grind, regardless, because it is horrendously repetitive. However, the profitability varies so much depending on the speed of the operator. The key is to be fast, limit your procedures to profitable ones, make lots of money, and limit your hours. I work 30 hours a week, but make more money than when I worked 34 hours a week. Sure, it's still a grind, but it's hard to find a profession where you can make 1500-3k+/hour.


youre obviously the outlier though.

only wizards can pull off what you do.
 
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Idk. I started working just a couple weeks ago but i’m working in public health so i’m paid $800 a day seeing 6-7patients (classic 9-5 and i don’t have to care if they show up or not, i’m still paid). Oh and i can take as many weeks off as I want (hello sweet travel in cheap countries when covid is over!)

it’s a pretty sweet and relaxed deal and it’s perfect imo to start my career. I’ve also had tons of job offers even in the middle of a pandemic when i see people in finance/etc struggling. Even my harvard grad boyfriend had trouble finding a job in his field.

I’m hoping dentistry will allow me in the long term to work a few days a week and enjoy a great lifestyle. Obviously, i will be more than happy if i make 150-200k a year so my standard is pretty low (but i care more about free time than $). Not many job will allow me to get that much money working 3-4days...

i did study in canada tho so i “only” have 100k of student loans. I probably wouldn’t think the same with $400-500k in loans. It would be terribly stressful and would probably hate it.
 
from anesthesia to checking articulation 30 minutes for a single filling is reasonable if you can ensure proper isolation, bonding per manufacturer instructions, and incremental layer condensation. an hour for one filling is quite a bit. i usually reserve the hour spots for quadrant dentistry
 
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There are many other professions that pay similarly or more that don’t have the headaches dentistry has. I remember most of my classmates saying they chose dentistry due to the hours and workload MDs have to deal with. But looking at dentistry not sure it is much better. The median pay is obviously much worse. But it seems only a few of us dentists are willing to acknowledge this. Saving face is unfortunately a big thing in our profession.
How far along are you in your career? What type of practice setting are you in and where in the country? How much are you working and how much are you making ? Where do you want to go with your career ?
 
youre obviously the outlier though.

only wizards can pull off what you do.

Even if I was an outlier, 1 SD below should still be doing pretty well. I don't think what I do is magic. It's analyzing the procedures we do on a daily basis and being more efficient in every step. Not every change in the process yields positive results either. One example is when I changed bonding agents, I had some post-op sensitivity. Even though I saved 5-8 seconds per fill, I ended up wasting time having to redo some with a different bonding agent and tacking on an additional 5-8 seconds per fill. Another case was more with equipment. We recently bought a primemill, but then we realized we needed two because the workflow of a single primemill was insufficient to handle and rotate through the demand for dry-mill zirconia restorations. Although we have sufficient amount of wetmill cerecs, the bottleneck is in the dry-mill cerecs. Understanding the bottlenecks in your practice is key to a successful practice.

Probably deviating from here, but it's venturing from what we were taught from dschool that makes us more efficient in what we do. Some people cannot wrap their minds around deviating away from what they were taught. However, what we learned in school is like the "safe mode" fall back when everything else fails. All the features are disabled, but it allows you to troubleshoot what went wrong.

from anesthesia to checking articulation 30 minutes for a single filling is reasonable if you can ensure proper isolation, bonding per manufacturer instructions, and incremental layer condensation. an hour for one filling is quite a bit. i usually reserve the hour spots for quadrant dentistry

Administration of anesthesia takes less than a minute (prilo/septo combo), prep is less than a minute (new bur + electric handpiece), fill can take 2-3 minutes (7th/8th gen bonding agent, bulk fill, 1s/3s curing lights), and adjustments/saying goodbye about a minute.
 
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Even if I was an outlier, 1 SD below should still be doing pretty well. I don't think what I do is magic. It's analyzing the procedures we do on a daily basis and being more efficient in every step. Not every change in the process yields positive results either. One example is when I changed bonding agents, I had some post-op sensitivity. Even though I saved 5-8 seconds per fill, I ended up wasting time having to redo some with a different bonding agent and tacking on an additional 5-8 seconds per fill. Another case was more with equipment. We recently bought a primemill, but then we realized we needed two because the workflow of a single primemill was insufficient to handle and rotate through the demand for dry-mill zirconia restorations. Although we have sufficient amount of wetmill cerecs, the bottleneck is in the dry-mill cerecs. Understanding the bottlenecks in your practice is key to a successful practice.

Probably deviating from here, but it's venturing from what we were taught from dschool that makes us more efficient in what we do. Some people cannot wrap their minds around deviating away from what they were taught. However, what we learned in school is like the "safe mode" fall back when everything else fails. All the features are disabled, but it allows you to troubleshoot what went wrong.



Administration of anesthesia takes less than a minute (prilo/septo combo), prep is less than a minute (new bur + electric handpiece), fill can take 2-3 minutes (7th/8th gen bonding agent, bulk fill, 1s/3s curing lights), and adjustments/saying goodbye about a minute.


you should write a book or something lol
 
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There are many other professions that pay similarly or more that don’t have the headaches dentistry has. I remember most of my classmates saying they chose dentistry due to the hours and workload MDs have to deal with. But looking at dentistry not sure it is much better. The median pay is obviously much worse. But it seems only a few of us dentists are willing to acknowledge this. Saving face is unfortunately a big thing in our profession.


EVERY profession has headaches. There are no free lunches. Dentistry is the one profession that has offered autonomy such as owning your own practice. Yes. It's becoming more and more difficult to start or buy that perfect office. It's the world that past and current generations have created. The internet commerce world. The I want to have it right NOW world and have it delivered to my doorstep in 1-2 days. The internet world has increasingly made it difficult for the mom and pop stores (i.e private dental practices) to practice like the good ole days. All this internet commerce (Amazon, Uber, etc. etc.) has taken over the free market. But ..... those private practice opportunities are still there. Just stay away from the saturated , urban areas. Practice where no other dentist wants to practice. You will be able to practice traditional dentistry with traditional hours. Will the money be better in a rural area. Maybe. Maybe not. At some point .... you will realize that choosing a profession is not soley about the money.

If you choose to work in a saturated, urban area. Good luck. You'll be competing with all the other dentists, DSOs trying to compete on pricing, multiple locations, and saturday, evening hours.

So. Your concerns comes down to LOCATION. There is no saving face or cover-up.
 
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To quote Don Draper in Mad Men...

"That What The Money is For!!!!!"
 
To quote Don Draper in Mad Men...

"That What The Money is For!!!!!"

Only issue is the money just doesn't seem to be there anymore... Yeah there are some great opportunities (I have a friend making close to 300K at a DSO as a general dentist), but they are far and few in between. Maybe it's my personality. I just want something stable that pays decently without too many headaches.
 
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Only issue is the money just doesn't seem to be there anymore... Yeah there are some great opportunities (I have a friend making close to 300K at a DSO as a general dentist), but they are far and few in between. Maybe it's my personality. I just want something stable that pays decently without too many headaches.
Unfortunately, there are not a lot of career options out there that give you all the things that were highlighted in bold. The easy one with less headaches usually doesn’t pay well and is not stable.

For your general dentist friend to earn such an impressive salary at a DSO, I am pretty sure he has to work like a dog and deals with a lot of headaches.
 
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Only issue is the money just doesn't seem to be there anymore... Yeah there are some great opportunities (I have a friend making close to 300K at a DSO as a general dentist), but they are far and few in between. Maybe it's my personality. I just want something stable that pays decently without too many headaches.


I agree. I feel that we as dentists are underpaid for our services. If 300k was the average for an employed dds' things would seem a lot better.
 
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Everyone’s chasing the bag instead of chasing their dreams.
 
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Only issue is the money just doesn't seem to be there anymore... Yeah there are some great opportunities (I have a friend making close to 300K at a DSO as a general dentist), but they are far and few in between. Maybe it's my personality. I just want something stable that pays decently without too many headaches.

If you don't mind me asking, how long have you been practicing dentistry (if at all)?

I believe people can learn to adapt to situations, where if you were a newbie with the "headaches" of an unnatural workload, that eventually, those headaches become part of your normal operating/clinical theater. The resilience of people is what allows us to adapt to these headaches by either getting rid of them, ignoring them, adapting, or changing the variables that make up the headaches. If you can identify what frustrates you with the clinical and/or administrative side of dentistry, then you can work to fix them. There will always be frustrations in any profession. Currently, my frustration is adapting to the significantly increased workload. If I cannot adapt, then I will either hire an associate, decrease my workload, suck it up, or try to increase my efficiency even more.

Find what ails you and think about how to solve your problems objectively rather than avoiding them. That way, you do not limit your income level too much.
 
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Only issue is the money just doesn't seem to be there anymore... Yeah there are some great opportunities (I have a friend making close to 300K at a DSO as a general dentist), but they are far and few in between. Maybe it's my personality. I just want something stable that pays decently without too many headaches.

I would suggest a nice, quite, government, bureaucratic job.
It's steady work with no stress and a pension after 25 -30 years of mindless service.
 
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I would suggest a nice, quite, government, bureaucratic job.
It's steady work with no stress and a pension after 25 -30 years of mindless service.


or accounting. Very stable and mundane gig. Not a bad one either if you get your CPA and open your own firm.
 
or accounting. Very stable and mundane gig. Not a bad one either if you get your CPA and open your own firm.
No way ... my father is a CPA who owns a firm and was basically absent from December to April every year ... "tax season" ... maybe he's just inefficient at his work, I'm sure TanMan could help him out, but there's no way I'd want his job based on what I've seen.
 
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Dentistry is a grind, that's for sure. That's why dentists need to be more productive with their time. I'm hearing from assistants that we hire that there's some dentists out there that take 30 mins to an hour for a single interproximal. For those that practice dentistry like that, the profession will definitely feel like a grind and the pay will definitely be terrible.

I think that dentistry will feel like a grind, regardless, because it is horrendously repetitive. However, the profitability varies so much depending on the speed of the operator. The key is to be fast, limit your procedures to profitable ones, make lots of money, and limit your hours. I work 30 hours a week, but make more money than when I worked 34 hours a week. Sure, it's still a grind, but it's hard to find a profession where you can make 1500-3k+/hour.
How much time do you take for class 2s usually?
 
Currently, my frustration is adapting to the significantly increased workload. If I cannot adapt, then I will either hire an associate, decrease my workload, suck it up, or try to increase my efficiency even more.
Have you considered scaling the business? Switching to a full FFS model or increasing fees?
 
How much time do you take for class 2s usually?
3-5 mins most of the time.

Have you considered scaling the business? Switching to a full FFS model or increasing fees?

Already have increased fees, not accepting as much insurance, etc... I think that is partly responsible for increased productivity. FFS only is a non-starter for me since I've seen 2 FFS only practices sold here due to COVID/health issues and from what I hear, they are tanking right now. Also, I inherit some of those FFS patients from time to time and the difference in gain v. time spent on those higher maintenance FFS patients are not worth it. Productivity goes down with high maintenance patients and unforeseen liabilities increase as well.
 
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3-5 mins most of the time.



OMG please give me tips, how do you do that. I calculated myself today - 30 mins for 12 DO and 13 MO. Caries prep took 10 mins, then putting sectional matrix took few mins, then placing composite in layers and finishing the prep, checking occlusion took the remaining time. How could you accomplish everything in 5 mins, please give some tips, I don't know what I am missing.
 
OMG please give me tips, how do you do that. I calculated myself today - 30 mins for 12 DO and 13 MO. Caries prep took 10 mins, then putting sectional matrix took few mins, then placing composite in layers and finishing the prep, checking occlusion took the remaining time. How could you accomplish everything in 5 mins, please give some tips, I don't know what I am missing.

Look at the steps of your procedure:
1. Anesthetic: Rapid anesthetic via infiltration on maxilla or premolar to premolar on mandible by using prilo/septo. Regardless, you probably have other things to do, so numb and do what you need to do. 1st/2nd man molars, either block, PDL, and/or lingual infiltration. (30s-1min administration)

2. Prep: You should have your diagnostic information memorized already. If you're doing interproximals, you should know approx depth, location relative to where contact would be broken, is it leaning more towards buccal or lingual, etc... With knowing where the lesion is located, drill initially at the marginal ridge, open up B-L sections for visibility, band placement, finishing, convenience form, etc... Using the proper burs makes this process way easier, but training yourself for tactile sensation is a different story. I use an 830-008 diamond for conservative preps, then finish with a 557 to remove all undermined enamel and smooth all walls. I don't do extension for prevention. You need to master the feel of cutting into enamel, dentin, infected dentin, affected dentin, and pulp tissue. Think about it this way, if you don't have to look, you don't need to keep checking. You can feel the caries and let your bur guide you. Preps should be 1 min or less. Remember, the more you are prepping, the more you're removing valuable tooth structure.

Placement of the matrix. I use sectional matrices. If you want to go speed mode, but sacrifice contact quality, use a supermat from garrison. Superfast placement, contacts are meh. How do you do sectionals fast? Your prep needs to have at least 0.5mm clearance on the gingival floor and bucco/lingualproximal walls. That way, you have both matrices in hand, push both in, hold it in, you have about 1-2 seconds to put your wedge, if you put your wedge but notice no engagement on the bands, you need to take the wedge partially out, push bands more gingivally, and put it back in to ensure a better gingival floor seal, then place your ring within 10 seconds, especially with the mandible. Once the whole apparatus is placed, burnish them against each other, then you can start isolation.

3. Fills: You need to be very fast at placement, remember this, every second you waste is an opportunity for contamination. For bonding agent, I prefer self-etch with option for total etch. Look for single bottle systems that require 0-10 second of wait time before initiating drying. For composite placement, you can do this in various ways: use bulk flow flowable only, incremental flowable only, incremental flowable with capped packable composite or bulk flow flowable with capped packable composite. The viscosity of the capped packable composite is important because it affects your ability to handle and the overall adaptability of the material. Use 1-3 second curing lights. You should test this invitro to determine if the lights can cure your composite as advertised (use those light cure/step guide to determine if it works).

4. Adjustments: Forgot to mention, keep a mental note of where the ridge was originally. I prefer to keep the MRs out of occlusion, but design them for cleansability as well. I like arkansas white stones for polish/finish with a 7902 carbide for nice flowing ridges to allow for cleansability

5. Check occlusion, check with floss. Nothing high, must have snap through flossing. Not too tight, not too loose. Remember, the patient has to be able to floss in between, but it should not just slide through, if done correctly. If you find that it slides, redo one of the back to back composites, preferably the more conservative one.
 
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Thank you doc, that's very helpful. So all this takes you just 5 mins?
 
Look at the steps of your procedure:
1. Anesthetic: Rapid anesthetic via infiltration on maxilla or premolar to premolar on mandible by using prilo/septo. Regardless, you probably have other things to do, so numb and do what you need to do. 1st/2nd man molars, either block, PDL, and/or lingual infiltration. (30s-1min administration)

2. Prep: You should have your diagnostic information memorized already. If you're doing interproximals, you should know approx depth, location relative to where contact would be broken, is it leaning more towards buccal or lingual, etc... With knowing where the lesion is located, drill initially at the marginal ridge, open up B-L sections for visibility, band placement, finishing, convenience form, etc... Using the proper burs makes this process way easier, but training yourself for tactile sensation is a different story. I use an 830-008 diamond for conservative preps, then finish with a 557 to remove all undermined enamel and smooth all walls. I don't do extension for prevention. You need to master the feel of cutting into enamel, dentin, infected dentin, affected dentin, and pulp tissue. Think about it this way, if you don't have to look, you don't need to keep checking. You can feel the caries and let your bur guide you. Preps should be 1 min or less. Remember, the more you are prepping, the more you're removing valuable tooth structure.

Placement of the matrix. I use sectional matrices. If you want to go speed mode, but sacrifice contact quality, use a supermat from garrison. Superfast placement, contacts are meh. How do you do sectionals fast? Your prep needs to have at least 0.5mm clearance on the gingival floor and bucco/lingualproximal walls. That way, you have both matrices in hand, push both in, hold it in, you have about 1-2 seconds to put your wedge, if you put your wedge but notice no engagement on the bands, you need to take the wedge partially out, push bands more gingivally, and put it back in to ensure a better gingival floor seal, then place your ring within 10 seconds, especially with the mandible. Once the whole apparatus is placed, burnish them against each other, then you can start isolation.

3. Fills: You need to be very fast at placement, remember this, every second you waste is an opportunity for contamination. For bonding agent, I prefer self-etch with option for total etch. Look for single bottle systems that require 0-10 second of wait time before initiating drying. For composite placement, you can do this in various ways: use bulk flow flowable only, incremental flowable only, incremental flowable with capped packable composite or bulk flow flowable with capped packable composite. The viscosity of the capped packable composite is important because it affects your ability to handle and the overall adaptability of the material. Use 1-3 second curing lights. You should test this invitro to determine if the lights can cure your composite as advertised (use those light cure/step guide to determine if it works).

4. Adjustments: Forgot to mention, keep a mental note of where the ridge was originally. I prefer to keep the MRs out of occlusion, but design them for cleansability as well. I like arkansas white stones for polish/finish with a 7902 carbide for nice flowing ridges to allow for cleansability

5. Check occlusion, check with floss. Nothing high, must have snap through flossing. Not too tight, not too loose. Remember, the patient has to be able to floss in between, but it should not just slide through, if done correctly. If you find that it slides, redo one of the back to back composites, preferably the more conservative one.

OMG. TLDR. A 2-3 page dissertation on doing a filling. No wonder OP feels that dentistry is a grind lol. I've got something that will help lessen the grind for the OP. How about doing some GP Invisalign. Here are the intricate steps.

1. Take impressions or scan
2. Perform Dx and TP. You know. Just hit the "Accept" tab on clincheck.
3. Deliver aligners

DONE.

Apologize in advance if my steps were too technical. :D
 
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Thank you doc, that's very helpful. So all this takes you just 5 mins?

Yes, it takes longer to describe than to perform what I discussed above. It's a way of thinking to create the natural flow/instinct of direct restorations.

OMG. TLDR. A 2-3 page dissertation on doing a filling. No wonder OP feels that dentistry is a grind lol. I've got something that will help lessen the grind for the OP. How about doing some GP Invisalign. Here are the intricate steps.

1. Take impressions or scan
2. Perform Dx and TP. You know. Just hit the "Accept" tab on clincheck.
3. Deliver aligners

DONE.

Apologize in advance if my steps were too technical. :D

Haha, I still hate GP invisalign. Too dependent on patient compliance and I like instant gratification/money.
 
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Thank you doc, that's very helpful. So all this takes you just 5 mins?

I was a little sleepy when I wrote all that, but I realize I forgot a key part of the whole process... isolation. Probably label that as 3a.

3a. Once prep is complete, rinsed, dried and with matrices/ring in place, isolation is important. The ring is very important because it assists in the gingival seal in conjunction with the wedge and bucco/lingualproximal sections AND holds gauze on the buccal for max, buccal/lingual for mandible. Always keep a stack of gauze handy. Be prepared to switch out gauze if you notice any kind of saturation. You have to be aware of the moisture situation and learn how to control it. Moisture comes from a few sources, from salivary glands, breathing moisture, and water from your airwater spray. Avoid using water during the fill phase. Breathing moisture, this one is a little trickier, but one of the things I find that works is to never lay the patient down. Patient should be 45 degrees to upright. The reason for this is because I find that people start mouth breathing when laying down, especially with patients with post nasal drip/allergies. For the salivary glands, just place gauze over them and have the tips of the gauze direct towards an easily suctionable section of the mouth (almost like you are directing the flow of saliva, but you shouldn't be in that phase for more than a few seconds). That phase should only exist when you are in the finishing stages if they have heavy saliva flow. Now, how do you determine if your prep is dry. Look at the states of dessication of your dentin. Look for any fluid movement. Note the behavior of your gauze as it absorbs moisture from the oral cavity. Note any fogging of the mirror. Another way that you can control breathing moisture is to have a saliva ejector just in the middle of the mouth or close to prep to draw moisture away.

The state of the dentin also depends on the parameters of your bonding agent. Some bond requires complete dessication, some require light drying. You have to be able to maintain that manufacturer recommended level until the bond is placed and cured. Any fluid movement after placement of bond is bad, you have to start again. However, if you act quickly, within a matter of seconds to place your initial increment + cure, you don't have to worry about it if you follow the aforementioned tactics.

I'll add more (if there's more and when I have time), not sure if that's a complete summary yet.

Edit: Another thing to practice, learning to use both hands simultaneously. If you're drilling, you're retracting, if you're not drilling, you're probably drying with one hand, but you need to have your next tools handy so the other hand should be reaching for the next step (bur change, bond, composite, instrument, item change, occlusal paper, floss, gauze etc...). If you can use both hands simultaneously like independent circuits, you will improve your productivity even more by shaving off seconds in each step. Seconds off every step add up to minutes.
 
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Being good and fast is important. Having good chair time management skill is equally important. Instead of sitting there waiting for the Lidocaine to work, you can work on another patient. Work on another patient while the staff is taking the x ray to verify endo working lenght. Ask the assistant to start mixing the PVS material while you pack the cord etc. The key is to get the patients out of the chair as quickly as possible so the next patient can come in. Don't make the patients wait.

Being efficient allows you to get more things done in shorter amount of time. More patients can be seen at the same time = more $$$ = you and the staff can go home ontime to see your kids = the job becomes less stressful.

Having worked for the corp for many years, I have the opportunity to see how different general dentists work. The dentists, who are good and fast and have good chair time management skill, are usually happy with their jobs (because they get paid well) and complain less. Slow dentists complain about everything.....ie rude assistants, bossy manager, overbooking, lack of supplies etc......and they usually didn't stay there very long (either quit or were fired).
 
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No way ... my father is a CPA who owns a firm and was basically absent from December to April every year ... "tax season" ... maybe he's just inefficient at his work, I'm sure TanMan could help him out, but there's no way I'd want his job based on what I've seen.

People including myself think CPAs only do taxes and have boring job duties. CPAs know money like dentists know teeth and chefs know food. My CPA friend owns 14 properties (commercial and residential) and probably takes in more in 1 month than I do in a year. Yes he still does people's (friends) taxes which will put many to sleep. Yes, I'm on the outside looking in to what looks like greener (more money) grass. IMO, doing crap taxes is like a means to an end. The end is the financial rewards everyone covets and CPAs know the most efficient ways to get there. I would have my kids shadow my CPA friend when they get older.

A crap job is what my dad did as a solo practice OB-GYN getting calls at 3 am most days. In 2003, OB-GYNs malpractice premiums nation wide increased 40% so he retired. A year later, an attorney wanted to subpoena a chart he did in 1997. My dad said too bad that is what Tail Insurance is for.
 
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Thank you doc, that's very helpful. So all this takes you just 5 mins?

On another note, this way of working becomes embedded in the way you operate to where you don't have to think about it actively. This is what patients pay the big bucks for... not to dawdle around for 30 mins to an hour, but to go in and out efficiently and effectively. Almost like a dance. Today, I timed myself on a 12MOD-13MOD-14MO at 11 minutes from drill to dismissal. Even then, there was an opportunity to improve since I noted a few things that went wrong, such as: I lost about 15 seconds due to a ring pop off on #11/12 junction (I need to engage my ring more apical), which is difficult on the canine due to height of contour differences, and my assistant was not ready with articulating paper (net loss of about 10-15 seconds as she ran out to get some, I was able to check contacts with floss and refine marginal ridges, which still left me with some deadtime of 10-15 seconds) - I need them to be more ready.

Edit: Identify what went wrong and propose solutions.

The important thing is to reflect on how you can be more efficient with your procedures. What are you doing that's taking so long and how can you improve your speed and quality in those steps.

Being good and fast is important. Having good chair time management skill is equally important. Instead of sitting there waiting for the Lidocaine to work, you can work on another patient. Work on another patient while the staff is taking the x ray to verify endo working lenght. Ask the assistant to start mixing the PVS material while you pack the cord etc. The key is to get the patients out of the chair as quickly as possible so the next patient can come in. Don't make the patients wait.

Being efficient allows you to get more things done in shorter amount of time. More patients can be seen at the same time = more $$$ = you and the staff can go home ontime to see your kids = the job becomes less stressful.

Having worked for the corp for many years, I have the opportunity to see how different general dentists work. The dentists, who are good and fast and have good chair time management skill, are usually happy with their jobs (because they get paid well) and complain less. Slow dentists complain about everything.....ie rude assistants, bossy manager, overbooking, lack of supplies etc......and they usually didn't stay there very long (either quit or were fired).

That's a keen observation about other GPs and very much true. Those that tend to complain are the ones that aren't busy/efficient/profitable enough that they tend to project their inadequecies towards the people around them. Now, this is not always the case, but this is prevalent for those that have time to blame others.

There's always unproductive time during a procedure in which you can use to do other things, as you have outlined, and the use of that unproductive time will allow you to add in an extra crown, rct, or other procedures within the mix. That's the next level than just seeing one procedural patient at a time.
 
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:eek: Man .... you're fast.

At some point you would think that increasing speed would lead to diminishing restoration integrity and longevity. Obviously operator dependent.
Since the carious lesions are next to each other (12DO, 13MOD, 14MO), you should be able to do them very quickly. You can quickly drop a box and not have to worry about nicking the adjacent tooth's surface. You don't have to do a traditional GV Black prep (extension for prevention, undercut on non-functional cusp for mechanical retention, placing retention grooves etc) for composite restorations. A lot of tooth structures are saved with composite restorations. Just go after the carious lesions and you are done. The more time to you spend on drilling, the more tooth structure may be unnecessarily removed.

Back in the old day, when I practiced general dentistry (only for a year) and when amalgam was the restoration material of choice for posterior teeth, I had to spend much more time to cut a class II prep. I had to use multiple burs and enamel hatchet to properly prepare a tooth for amalgam restoration.

Now that I am practicing F/T ortho, I usually spend 2-3 minutes to remove the ortho adhesive for a full debonding case. More time drilling = more enamel will be removed.
 
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There are many other professions that pay similarly or more that don’t have the headaches dentistry has. I remember most of my classmates saying they chose dentistry due to the hours and workload MDs have to deal with. But looking at dentistry not sure it is much better. The median pay is obviously much worse. But it seems only a few of us dentists are willing to acknowledge this. Saving face is unfortunately a big thing in our profession.

Well said. Dentistry is not the same as it was in the 90s and 2000s. It definitely lost a lot of shine over the last decade or 2. A dentist old enough to know it would admit to all the things you mentioned.
 
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Dentistry has changed a lot.

A dentist I used to work alongside occasionally had the same job I had 12 years ago. We're friendly and he's a mentor of mine. When he took the job fourteen years ago, he was at the end of his career. He was paid the same then as I was paid when I got hired as a new graduate. When he had the job, it was 4 days a week and 1 column. When I got the job, it was 5 days a week and 2 columns with a 3rd column for emergencies.

The volume of dentistry required to earn a living is totally different today than it was in the 90s and even early 2000s and I've only seen it get worse since I graduated.

All that said, practice ownership has its perks and the earning potential for the real go-getter is pretty amazing.
 
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:eek: Man .... you're fast.

At some point you would think that increasing speed would lead to diminishing restoration integrity and longevity. Obviously operator dependent.

At some point, it just becomes a dance between you, the patient, and your assistant. Almost like a symphony in your head. The one thing I can't seem to master is fine movement with my left hand while simultaneously using the right. I can juggle instruments and other stuff with both hands, but when it comes to using a mouse with my left hand and doing something else dental with the right hand, the movements just don't flow. That is my horrible bottleneck in clinical flow right now. Maybe someday. There's a lot of potential in increasing my productivity if I can unlock the left hand for all functions, rather than just gross movement/instrument-consumable transfers/retraction
 
At some point, it just becomes a dance between you, the patient, and your assistant. Almost like a symphony in your head. The one thing I can't seem to master is fine movement with my left hand while simultaneously using the right. I can juggle instruments and other stuff with both hands, but when it comes to using a mouse with my left hand and doing something else dental with the right hand, the movements just don't flow. That is my horrible bottleneck in clinical flow right now. Maybe someday. There's a lot of potential in increasing my productivity if I can unlock the left hand for all functions, rather than just gross movement/instrument-consumable transfers/retraction

Dude. You're amazing. I predict one day you will be the 1st dentist to work on two patients simultaneously. Two patients side by side. Left hand working on left patient. Right hand working on right patient. :D
 
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Being good and fast is important. Having good chair time management skill is equally important. Instead of sitting there waiting for the Lidocaine to work, you can work on another patient. Work on another patient while the staff is taking the x ray to verify endo working lenght. Ask the assistant to start mixing the PVS material while you pack the cord etc. The key is to get the patients out of the chair as quickly as possible so the next patient can come in. Don't make the patients wait.

Being efficient allows you to get more things done in shorter amount of time. More patients can be seen at the same time = more $$$ = you and the staff can go home ontime to see your kids = the job becomes less stressful.

Having worked for the corp for many years, I have the opportunity to see how different general dentists work. The dentists, who are good and fast and have good chair time management skill, are usually happy with their jobs (because they get paid well) and complain less. Slow dentists complain about everything.....ie rude assistants, bossy manager, overbooking, lack of supplies etc......and they usually didn't stay there very long (either quit or were fired).

The cord packing experience is terrible/painful (from the receiving end). Expasyl/traxodent tastes REALLY bad. I had a crown done on myself recently and it's good to experience it for yourself so that you know what patients go through and how to improve the patient experience. I bet I'm gonna have some severe recession from all the gingival trauma.

Dude. You're amazing. I predict one day you will be the 1st dentist to work on two patients simultaneously. Two patients side by side. Left hand working on left patient. Right hand working on right patient. :D

Haha, wouldn't that be the dream, but with the whole covid situation and still needing two hands per patient, I doubt it would ever happen. I'd take a 10-20% increase in productivity/procedural speed by unlocking the left hand. There's lots of things that can be accomplished even by having fine motor control of the second hand. I had a dream that I could have two handpieces performing a crown prep in half the time, but I think the inspiration came from the cerec primemill where it can use two burs simultaneously. Probably have less wear and tear on my right hand too.

Someone should invent loupes that have a projection/screen that can show radiographs, charts, or a computer screen equivalent and perhaps a mind-machine interface that would allow me to control what I need to see on the aforementioned screen. That way, I don't have to waste countless seconds turning my head towards the screen.
 
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Dentistry is a grind, that's for sure. That's why dentists need to be more productive with their time. I'm hearing from assistants that we hire that there's some dentists out there that take 30 mins to an hour for a single interproximal. For those that practice dentistry like that, the profession will definitely feel like a grind and the pay will definitely be terrible.

I think that dentistry will feel like a grind, regardless, because it is horrendously repetitive. However, the profitability varies so much depending on the speed of the operator. The key is to be fast, limit your procedures to profitable ones, make lots of money, and limit your hours. I work 30 hours a week, but make more money than when I worked 34 hours a week. Sure, it's still a grind, but it's hard to find a profession where you can make 1500-3k+/hour.

I'm not the brightest bulb around, but I can juggle numbers well enough. If I do my maths correctly this means that at the low end $1500 per hour multiplied by 30 hours is $45,000 per week or about $2,160,000 per year with 4 weeks off per year. Now, my assumption here is that you are cherry picking the hour as simply a peak production hour, rather than an average hour for a work day haha.
 
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I'm not the brightest bulb around, but I can juggle numbers well enough. If I do my maths correctly this means that at the low end $1500 per hour multiplied by 30 hours is $45,000 per week or about $2,160,000 per year with 4 weeks off per year. Now, my assumption here is that you are cherry picking the hour as simply a peak production hour, rather than an average hour for a work day haha.

For me, 1500/hour is a boring day. I'd say that 1500/hour averaged for the whole day is more accurate as a low end averaged daily production (To keep it simple, imagine doing 3k in the first hour and 0 in the second hour... average is 1.5k/hour within those 2 hours). That only amounts to 9500 for a 6 hour day. 1500 wasn't always a slow day, but as I gained more experience and handled my workflow better, it eventually came to feel slow.
 
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For me, 1500/hour is a boring day. I'd say that 1500/hour averaged for the whole day is more accurate as a low end averaged daily production (To keep it simple, imagine doing 3k in the first hour and 0 in the second hour... average is 1.5k/hour within those 2 hours). That only amounts to 9500 for a 6 hour day. 1500 wasn't always a slow day, but as I gained more experience and handled my workflow better, it eventually came to feel slow.

Ahhhh, that's production, I see
 
Ahhhh, that's production, I see
Ideally, production would be equal or close to collections. Even at that, the office should collect at least 1500 per hour. I never understood why people at ppo offices base their production on office fees rather than contracted fees. That practice tends to overinflate true production. So, i think it's important to differentiate between hypothetical and true production. However, even at billing at true rates, the second part is your office's ability to collect. If the office cannot collect, then it's all hypothetical. Eventually, you learn what insurances will and will not pay for, and bill the ones they won't ahead of time to the patient. That was production is as close to collections as possible.

Edit: I forgot to add this, if it wasn't obvious already: You should be collecting at least 1500/hour for your services.
 
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