Dentists working 2 or 3 days a week?

[JakeSill]

I've heard of Dentist regularly working 4 day weeks. I know it's not reasonable for dentists in private practice to do this. But can associates work 2 or 3 days a week?

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[Mad Jack]

It's possible, but if you want benefits, the overhead is high and jobs won't exactly be plentiful. If you want to do a part-time, no benefits gig though, you could swing it. Of course, then you're paying for your own insurance and the like, so...

Basically, let me break it down for you like this. 25% of a full-time employee's compensation package is, on average, benefits. Let's say the average associate works 5 days a week, but you want to work 2.5. You want the same benefits as the full time associate, who earns 120k. This amounts to 30k in benefits. Now, full time guy's total cost for 5 days of employment is 150k. Your cost for half time employment (if you want half of a full time employee's salary) is 105k. What this comes down to is, as a boss, you can have 5 days of coverage for 210k, or you can have 5 days of coverage for 150k. Do you just want to throw 60k out the window? Probably not.

Hence why this sort of position likely won't be popping up everywhere unless it's a 1099 IC job that doesn't offer benefits.

 

[JakeSill]

What this comes down to is, as a boss, you can have 5 days of coverage for 210k, or you can have 5 days of coverage for 150k. Do you just want to throw 60k out the window? Probably not.

Hence why this sort of position likely won't be popping up everywhere unless it's a 1099 IC job that doesn't offer benefits.

The average owner in private practice pay is $210k?

 

[Mad Jack]

The average owner in private practice pay is $210k?

That wasn't for the owner, that was for an associate. Most practice owners have more than one associate, so I was calculating the cost of their minions.

 

[endoaccess]

What kind of fixed cost benefits are being offered in these W2 jobs that amounts to 25% of income? I'm not sure I'm following this.

OP: in my region it's easier to find part time work than full time work. Dentistry is very part time friendly.

 

[Mad Jack]

What kind of fixed cost benefits are being offered in these W2 jobs that amounts to 25% of income? I'm not sure I'm following this.

OP: in my region it's easier to find part time work than full time work. Dentistry is very part time friendly.

I'm going by Merritt Hawkins average data, which has historically pegged total compensation at 25-30% over salary, with that additional percentage being comprised of various benefits, including malpractice, health insurance, Social Security contributions, etc. This actually excludes practice overhead costs, which would make a part-time employee even more inefficient. Of course, I'm just going by industry figures- some small employers will have greater or lesser compensation packages, depending on the robustness of the incentives they offer. One of the many majors I waffled on over the years was business, so I've got a decent understanding of incentive packages. For a full-benefit, high-earning employee, you're looking at a bare minimum of 20% over full-time equivalent salary in benefits.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/28/smallbusiness/salary-benefits/

 

[JakeSill]

That wasn't for the owner, that was for an associate. Most practice owners have more than one associate, so I was calculating the cost of their minions.

I don't get where the 210k is coming from?

 

[Mad Jack]

I don't get where the 210k is coming from?

That wasn't pay, that was cost to the employer. You clearly don't understand compensation versus salary. The amount your employer pays you isn't what you cost them. They also pay their portion of social security, your health insurance, your PTO, worker's compensation insurance, malpractice (if provided), 401k match, etc etc. All of this adds up to your total compensation, which is, on average, 30% greater than your base salary. The trouble with part-time employees is that many of these benefits don't scale very well for employees that don't work full time, nor do overhead costs.

So, doing the math, the average dental associate makes 140k in my region, and would have a total compensation of 182k. The 210k was an example and done with made up numbers and sloppy math I did in my head, not what they actually pay. It was meant to illustrate a concept. Now we'll do the actual numbers, because people around SDN seem to not be big on abstraction. 182k-140k=42k of relatively fixed, expected benefits for a dental associate. A half time associate with benefits would thus cost 140/2+42= 112k. But you need two of these associates to do the job of a full timer, so you'll need 112*2=224k worth of compensation to do what could have been done for 182k. Essentially, two part timers create 42k of inefficient utilization of capital in your practice. Does that make things easier to understand? This is the reason part time jobs rarely have benefits, as benefits don't scale with lower hours, and thus part time employees having them results in serious sapping of your profits.

 

[Hedgy]

I see some of the corporate practices having the docs work 3 days/week with 10-12 hour days. Sounds crazy to me, but it is done here.

 

[endoaccess]

That wasn't pay, that was cost to the employer. You clearly don't understand compensation versus salary. The amount your employer pays you isn't what you cost them. They also pay their portion of social security, your health insurance, your PTO, worker's compensation insurance, malpractice (if provided), 401k match, etc etc. All of this adds up to your total compensation, which is, on average, 30% greater than your base salary. The trouble with part-time employees is that many of these benefits don't scale very well for employees that don't work full time, nor do overhead costs.

So, doing the math, the average dental associate makes 140k in my region, and would have a total compensation of 182k. The 210k was an example and done with made up numbers and sloppy math I did in my head, not what they actually pay. It was meant to illustrate a concept. Now we'll do the actual numbers, because people around SDN seem to not be big on abstraction. 182k-140k=42k of relatively fixed, expected benefits for a dental associate. A half time associate with benefits would thus cost 140/2+42= 112k. But you need two of these associates to do the job of a full timer, so you'll need 112*2=224k worth of compensation to do what could have been done for 182k. Essentially, two part timers create 42k of inefficient utilization of capital in your practice. Does that make things easier to understand? This is the reason part time jobs rarely have benefits, as benefits don't scale with lower hours, and thus part time employees having them results in serious sapping of your profits.

You're overanalyzing this. It doesn't pencil out like that in private practice dentistry. The benefits are usually poor unless you work in the public sector.

 

[charlestweed]

No, it’s not possible if you have to borrow $300-400k to pay for your DDS degree. It’s not possible if you also have kids to support. After paying taxes and paying back student loan every month, you’ll have nothing left to live on. My assistant, who makes $18/hr, is probably richer than you because she doesn’t have any student loan. If you stretch out the student loan repayment to 30 years and continue to work only 2-3 days a week until 65, you’ll probably have a little bit to live on but you will have nothing when you retire at 65....no office, no saving, no house, nothing.

It’s borderline possible if you stay single, have no kid, and have zero student loan. It’s borderline possible if your spouse, and not you, is the main income earner in the family.

 

[CMistry]

You're overanalyzing this. It doesn't pencil out like that in private practice dentistry. The benefits are usually poor unless you work in the public sector.

This is exactly correct.

Mad Jack, for some reason you are assuming that many dentists are employees. That is not true, the vast majority are independent contractors. Most dental associateships are with small businesses that do not provide many benefits even if you are an employee (rare to begin with). Even the large corporations (dental chains) provide poor benefits. Only the public health jobs actually have good benefits, and of course, that comes with a sacrifice in income. The dentist income numbers you are used to hearing are all in respect to being a 1099 IC.

 

[romoxx23]

Look into dentalmaverick.com the Dr. Here Tuan Pham works by seeing low volume of patients daily vs high volume of that's something your also interested in. He does really well.