Denver Job Market

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Shimmy8

Shimmy8

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Seeing some recent posts on gaswork for jobs in Denver, from the look of it seems like two large practices merged AND sold out to USAP?

Anyone have any insight? Overall climate there and working in these facilities?
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One of the guys in our town was there for 10 years. He says that USAP is now in charge and that being an anesthesiologist there is crap. There are smaller groups still in play though I think. On the outskirts.
 
Kaiser Denver is worth a look. They pay significantly better than Kaiser CA.
 
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SaltyDog said:
Kaiser Denver is worth a look. They pay significantly better than Kaiser CA.
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I dont know whats worse, kaiser or an amc.

Kaiser is terrible! speaking from a close family member thats worked for them for >20years, ive seen how bad kaiser is.
 
FootballFoot said:
Why do physicians hate working for Kaiser?
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Well, not all do. I have 3 buddies at Kaiser SD that seem to be happy there. It really depends on your personality. At Kaiser you have to be OK with a factory worker mentality. Clock in-Clock out. OK not having much administrative control over your practice, etc. I think the younger generation is gonna be more OK with this than the old guard. Still not for me though.
 
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nimbus said:
Probably the famous Kaiser handcuffs, er pension.
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Winner

Plus life time free healthcare although getting care at Kaiser is meh!

Kaiser wasn't too terrible until the last 10 years. Since they started taking Medi-cal patients, it's gotten exponentially worse.
 
Bump

About to be a CA-3 and just getting started with job searching. Does anyone have any insight to the current market in Denver? Looks like it's almost all USAP jobs with Kaiser, and maybe a small practice or two on the outskirts of town. I need to be in the area for the spouse, and would love to hear if I'm missing out on any other gigs, or if anyone has feedback on how working for the above groups actually is.

Would also love to hear any feedback about the other groups in the area(i.e. Fort Collins/Boulder/Springs).
 
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I’ve heard that kaiser Denver no longer offers a pension. Does anyone know of this is true? I wasn’t surprised when I heard the news because pensions are no longer tenable in this day and age.
 
And what is it like to work for USAP? Have they gobble up more groups since this thread was started back 2016?
 
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Noyac said:
And what is it like to work for USAP? Have they gobble up more groups since this thread was started back 2016?
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From what I have heard some groups suck and some don’t. But it is the better AMC to work for. And some groups still make really good money.
 
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chocomorsel said:
From what I have heard some groups suck and some don’t. But it is the better AMC to work for. And some groups still make really good money.
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Very regional dependent. I have no direct knowledge of Colorado, but a lot of Florida had some garbage AMC jobs. There are some solid ones in Texas, and in the Midwest. All about knowing what you’re getting in to - the same is true for academics or independent PP.
 
Skindoc83 said:
I’ve heard that kaiser Denver no longer offers a pension. Does anyone know of this is true? I wasn’t surprised when I heard the news because pensions are no longer tenable in this day and age.
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denver kaiser offers starting $420k+ for 40 hours a week with benefits and pension still exists. Thats almost $150k more than starting at so. cal kaiser. :(
 
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I have worked for USAP in Denver. There are some very nice people in the group but I ultimately left after a few years. Bottom line is similar to any other AMC- it’s impossible to be compensated fairly when such a large portion of every dollar you collect goes to investors.
 
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ahl9974 said:
I have worked for USAP in Denver. There are some very nice people in the group but I ultimately left after a few years. Bottom line is similar to any other AMC- it’s impossible to be compensated fairly when such a large portion of every dollar you collect goes to investors.
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What range of salary and benefits could someone expect in an AMC like this? Is this a situation where you'll be worked to death for salaries that people were seeing 15 years ago?
 
Jlaws67 said:
What range of salary and benefits could someone expect in an AMC like this? Is this a situation where you'll be worked to death for salaries that people were seeing 15 years ago?
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Got this recruiter email today. Assume it is USAP

“Join the largest single-specialty anesthesia practice in the country
  • 179 physician partners currently in the greater Denver area
  • 2-year partnership track
  • Earn the income you want from day one—average partner income of $450,000 +/- with some physicians earning as much as $600,000
  • Expansion into new facilities—need multiple anesthesiologists to start over the next 3 to 6 months
  • Seeking general bread and butter anesthesiologists willing to work across all specialties
  • Collegial work environment in which physicians and CRNAs work in concert—no more than 4:1 CRNA to physician ratio
  • Full benefits including occurrence-based malpractice insurance, health insurance, matching 401k, and profit sharing
  • Quality of life balance—partner track physicians can expect a call rotation of 1:9 weekdays and 1:4 weekends”
 
nimbus said:
Got this recruiter email today. Assume it is USAP

“Join the largest single-specialty anesthesia practice in the country
  • 179 physician partners currently in the greater Denver area
  • 2-year partnership track
  • Earn the income you want from day one—average partner income of $450,000 +/- with some physicians earning as much as $600,000
  • Expansion into new facilities—need multiple anesthesiologists to start over the next 3 to 6 months
  • Seeking general bread and butter anesthesiologists willing to work across all specialties
  • Collegial work environment in which physicians and CRNAs work in concert—no more than 4:1 CRNA to physician ratio
  • Full benefits including occurrence-based malpractice insurance, health insurance, matching 401k, and profit sharing
  • Quality of life balance—partner track physicians can expect a call rotation of 1:9 weekdays and 1:4 weekends”
Click to expand...
Sounds about right. Work more and make more $. Have a few friends/colleagues in USAP Denver. Many were in it before it became USAP, and yes they were happier then. Have known various folks at the Academic Shop to hop across town and love it. More CRNA/AA to be hired and working in ACT model but still lots of opportunities to do own cases. Don’t know about leadership or culture because group so large and covers many different facilities, resulting in a different “feel” for each place. Also, this merger between mega groups (SDA and GCA) resulted in USAP, but the two former groups had quite different operating styles. Again, not a member of group just relaying what I’ve heard and a bit of what I’ve seen. Denver is pretty nice: weather warmer then northeast , traffic kinda sucks but better then LA, DC and other metro places. Real estate has seen a boon but still fairly affordable compared to west coast. Love the people, healthy, active , good natured for the most part.
 
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nimbus said:
Got this recruiter email today. Assume it is USAP

“Join the largest single-specialty anesthesia practice in the country
  • 179 physician partners currently in the greater Denver area
  • 2-year partnership track
  • Earn the income you want from day one—average partner income of $450,000 +/- with some physicians earning as much as $600,000
  • Expansion into new facilities—need multiple anesthesiologists to start over the next 3 to 6 months
  • Seeking general bread and butter anesthesiologists willing to work across all specialties
  • Collegial work environment in which physicians and CRNAs work in concert—no more than 4:1 CRNA to physician ratio
  • Full benefits including occurrence-based malpractice insurance, health insurance, matching 401k, and profit sharing
  • Quality of life balance—partner track physicians can expect a call rotation of 1:9 weekdays and 1:4 weekends”
Click to expand...

I am not working for USAP or affiliated group, but I have interviewed at several groups affiliated with USAP. As long as you are comfortable with giving 20-25% of what you earned that month back to corporate than it's a good job. So, that average partner income of 450K might be before USAP take 20-25% off the top and don't forget that if you have CRNAs than their salary is your overhead cost. It's also expected that once you make partner, you are then expected to use your salary to buy equity stake in USP. Also, if you joined an all MD group expect to start supervising because corporate expect physicians to leave after the merger with CRNAs to take their place.
 
marr65 said:
I am not working for USAP or affiliated group, but I have interviewed at several groups affiliated with USAP. As long as you are comfortable with giving 20-25% of what you earned that month back to corporate than it's a good job. So, that average partner income of 450K might be before USAP take 20-25% off the top and don't forget that if you have CRNAs than their salary is your overhead cost. It's also expected that once you make partner, you are then expected to use your salary to buy equity stake in USP. Also, if you joined an all MD group expect to start supervising because corporate expect physicians to leave after the merger with CRNAs to take their place.
Click to expand...


The income advertised should be what’s on the W2 after any USAP tax is paid. Otherwise it would be very misleading.
 
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I understand that in the past things may have been better for anesthesiologists. However, as a medical student deciding between anesthesia and internal medicine (+/- subspecialties), it is really hard to choose internal medicine when the vast majority of internists/subspecialists make far less than what is being listed in this thread. As well, at least for me, anesthesiology is far more interesting and stimulating than a lot of internal medicine.

Can someone please explain some of the downsides of these Kaiser/USAP jobs? I understand pay is likely lower than private practice, but it appears job stability/hours may be better. Not to mention, it appears like the majority of internists/subspecialists are becoming employed as well.
 
resp228 said:
I understand that in the past things may have been better for anesthesiologists. However, as a medical student deciding between anesthesia and internal medicine (+/- subspecialties), it is really hard to choose internal medicine when the vast majority of internists/subspecialists make far less than what is being listed in this thread. As well, at least for me, anesthesiology is far more interesting and stimulating than a lot of internal medicine.

Can someone please explain some of the downsides of these Kaiser/USAP jobs? I understand pay is likely lower than private practice, but it appears job stability/hours may be better. Not to mention, it appears like the majority of internists/subspecialists are becoming employed as well.
Click to expand...

Honestly that pay is pretty good. Like 50% MGMA and more.
The problem is, you will never keep all the money you get from the insurance companies. At least 20% will go to cooperate and that’s the problem for most people.

People also forget that these Mega groups often negotiate higher rates from the insurance companies than the old group that they bought out. So, the money may not change much depending what you were making before.

However, how you run your practice will be changed as you no longer have control. They usually let you have control at first but over time they introduce more and more CRNAs if they weren’t already there.

So basically if you are ok with being in a “cooperate” like lifestyle then you can work there happily. A lot of people do. And make a lot of money doing it. I have never made that kind of money myself and the closest I came to it entailed working like a sleigh dog, and I was not having that.
 
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USAP, who bought us out in Denver, has had to retain the services of both Merritt Hawkins and Kendall & Davis to fill positions that used to be filled exclusively by word-of-mouth. Using a recruiter would have been unthinkable to us 5-10 years ago.

To their credit, the salespitch seems mostly to be accurate, with the exception that the recruiters' ads don't mention overseeing AAs. As long as you know that you are working exclusively as a supervisor (of both CRNAs and AAs) , you probably won't be too disappointed. I note that the Gaswork ad states you will be doing 90% of your own cases, which, of course, is 100% wrong.

My former colleagues are all less happy than they used to be, but they dry their tears with unmarked C-notes, so there's no need to feel bad for them. The new ones don't know how it used to be, so they don't even feel like they've missed out. And, again, $450k/year isn't chump change, even if your corporate overlords are getting their take.
 
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C4C said:
USAP, who bought us out in Denver, has had to retain the services of both Merritt Hawkins and Kendall & Davis to fill positions that used to be filled exclusively by word-of-mouth. Using a recruiter would have been unthinkable to us 5-10 years ago.

To their credit, the salespitch seems mostly to be accurate, with the exception that the recruiters' ads don't mention overseeing AAs. As long as you know that you are working exclusively as a supervisor (of both CRNAs and AAs) , you probably won't be too disappointed. I note that the Gaswork ad states you will be doing 90% of your own cases, which, of course, is 100% wrong.

My former colleagues are all less happy than they used to be, but they dry their tears with unmarked C-notes, so there's no need to feel bad for them. The new ones don't know how it used to be, so they don't even feel like they've missed out. And, again, $450k/year isn't chump change, even if your corporate overlords are getting their take.
Click to expand...

So why did you guys sell? Were you on the brink of losing your contract and had to sell?

Are you guys having buyer's remorse? Did you not get any C notes yourself?

Why do you think you are having a hard time recruiting?
 
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Sorry. I wasn't very clear.

I was with South Denver Anesthesiologists. USAP bought out Greater Colorado, then bought us. I left shortly thereafter because I did not work my tail off in medical school and residency just to be a chart-signing monkey overseeing a stable of CRNAs and AAs. YMMV.

I ought not to speak for my former partners who remained with USAP, though the general--if not unanimous--consensus is that everything about the job is now worse than before: hours, enjoyment, sense of responsibility, prestige, pay, autonomy, respect, quality of care. The conversations we used to have centered around how we anticipated keeping up with the state of the art into our 50s or 60s; now when I speak with them they are all wondering how soon they can punch out for the last time.

Trying to be fair to the core that remained back, it is possible that recruiting is no longer their concern. Now everything about the job is corporate. Maybe the corporate know-it-alls have a long-standing relationship with the recruiters, or maybe they have bylaws that state any openings must be advertised on a national level in order to make positions available to other worker bees in the USAP system. I don't know. But it is possible that they aren't "having a hard time recruiting" as much as the former owners aren't going to hustle and work the phones to bring in the rockstars from each graduating class. Now they're not recruiting partners; they idly watch as corporate assigns co-workers. C'est la vie.
 
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C4C said:
Sorry. I wasn't very clear.

I was with South Denver Anesthesiologists. USAP bought out Greater Colorado, then bought us. I left shortly thereafter because I did not work my tail off in medical school and residency just to be a chart-signing monkey overseeing a stable of CRNAs and AAs. YMMV.

I ought not to speak for my former partners who remained with USAP, though the general--if not unanimous--consensus is that everything about the job is now worse than before: hours, enjoyment, sense of responsibility, prestige, pay, autonomy, respect, quality of care. The conversations we used to have centered around how we anticipated keeping up with the state of the art into our 50s or 60s; now when I speak with them they are all wondering how soon they can punch out for the last time.

Trying to be fair to the core that remained back, it is possible that recruiting is no longer their concern. Now everything about the job is corporate. Maybe the corporate know-it-alls have a long-standing relationship with the recruiters, or maybe they have bylaws that state any openings must be advertised on a national level in order to make positions available to other worker bees in the USAP system. I don't know. But it is possible that they aren't "having a hard time recruiting" as much as the former owners aren't going to hustle and work the phones to bring in the rockstars from each graduating class. Now they're not recruiting partners; they idly watch as corporate assigns co-workers. C'est la vie.
Click to expand...

Good post for all the info. What about the USAP 401K plan? Any idea if it is real 401K with USAP contributing a nice sum of money or is it the usual AMC package of zero to $5K per year?
 
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marr65 said:
I am not working for USAP or affiliated group, but I have interviewed at several groups affiliated with USAP. As long as you are comfortable with giving 20-25% of what you earned that month back to corporate than it's a good job. So, that average partner income of 450K might be before USAP take 20-25% off the top and don't forget that if you have CRNAs than their salary is your overhead cost. It's also expected that once you make partner, you are then expected to use your salary to buy equity stake in USP. Also, if you joined an all MD group expect to start supervising because corporate expect physicians to leave after the merger with CRNAs to take their place.
Click to expand...
Interesting post. Can you explain why the nurses are an overhead cost? Remember, I don’t have nurses in my practice.
 
resp228 said:
I understand that in the past things may have been better for anesthesiologists. However, as a medical student deciding between anesthesia and internal medicine (+/- subspecialties), it is really hard to choose internal medicine when the vast majority of internists/subspecialists make far less than what is being listed in this thread. As well, at least for me, anesthesiology is far more interesting and stimulating than a lot of internal medicine.

Can someone please explain some of the downsides of these Kaiser/USAP jobs? I understand pay is likely lower than private practice, but it appears job stability/hours may be better. Not to mention, it appears like the majority of internists/subspecialists are becoming employed as well.
Click to expand...
You will be much happier if you focus on the specialty that makes you happiest. The one the interests you the most. The one that you think is right for you no matter what the income is. Then adjust accordingly. I for one am extremely glad I didn’t pursue the higher income specialties I was in line for. I believe I am much happier today because of this. My outside of work life is richer for this.
 
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Noyac said:
You will be much happier if you focus on the specialty that makes you happiest. The one the interests you the most. The one that you think is right for you no matter what the income is. Then adjust accordingly. I for one am extremely glad I didn’t pursue the higher income specialties I was in line for. I believe I am much happier today because of this. My outside of work life is richer for this.
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Thanks, this is great advice!
 
resp228 said:
Thanks, this is great advice!
Click to expand...
Ok, I still stand by my statement but with a disclaimer.
Holy Crap does orthopods have opportunities to make money hand over fist.
I’m talking about patents, surgery centers, etc. They can make the median orthopedic salary with shares in a free standing physician owned surgery center alone.
But these same orthopods still complain about their income so I guess we are all the same still.
 
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Anybody has more insight on what USAP in Denver actually is?
Specifically Northwest region?
From my understanding they split Denver market by areas, you will be rotating via hospitals in the area, but, if necessary could be send to another location.
Buying in 100k of USAP shares is mandatory, weird thing. What exactly constitutes the partner - also very ill defined.
As far as Blade question about 401 k, yes, it sucks as usual AMC, may be worse. Can look up specifics later( tossed folder into check in).
 
Globulinus said:
Anybody has more insight on what USAP in Denver actually is?
Specifically Northwest region?
From my understanding they split Denver market by areas, you will be rotating via hospitals in the area, but, if necessary could be send to another location.
Buying in 100k of USAP shares is mandatory, weird thing. What exactly constitutes the partner - also very ill defined.
As far as Blade question about 401 k, yes, it sucks as usual AMC, may be worse. Can look up specifics later( tossed folder into check in).
Click to expand...

Isn’t it after a year or two then you become partner? But then you have to chip in for whatever the overhead? I didn’t take good notes during my conversation with the recruiter. So after you make partner, you may actually make a little less?
And there are thousands of share out there.... Didn’t get into it with the recruiter, as we know usually they don’t understand what’s going on either.
 
IMGASMD said:
Isn’t it after a year or two then you become partner? But then you have to chip in for whatever the overhead? I didn’t take good notes during my conversation with the recruiter. So after you make partner, you may actually make a little less?
And there are thousands of share out there.... Didn’t get into it with the recruiter, as we know usually they don’t understand what’s going on either.
Click to expand...
After you make a partner you will need to pay "office" overhead around 6K.
Before partner they pay 90% of unit cost. Partner - 100%
 
Looking for any updates. I am considering USAP and Denver Health. Will be pedí boarded. Looking for a mixed practice with supervision. I like working with residents, medical students, and CRNAs. The Denver Health ad says they only give 4 weeks vacation. Anyone know the typical weekly hours of these groups, amount of call, amount of pedí, job satisfaction?
 
4 weeks of vacation is robbery.
Don’t feed the criminals.
 
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4 weeks? With new ACGME proposed changes for time off, that is literally worse than residency.
 
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Slothtronaut said:
Looking for any updates. I am considering USAP and Denver Health. Will be pedí boarded. Looking for a mixed practice with supervision. I like working with residents, medical students, and CRNAs. The Denver Health ad says they only give 4 weeks vacation. Anyone know the typical weekly hours of these groups, amount of call, amount of pedí, job satisfaction?
Click to expand...

Have a former classmate working for USAP in the Denver area. He likes it. Works his tail off, 60+ hr/wk by choice. Gets a lot of productivity based $. Not sure how much vacation he gets or how many hr/wk he'd be doing if not for the extra shifts, but he is happy out there either way.
 
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You can take more time off it will just cost you productivity. It’s all about priorities.
 
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If living in Denver I’d that important there are other options too.

USAP is the biggest scam out there for new grads:

A double buy in: decreased salary and have to pay 100k in stock for partner track-and the group had sold a percentage of your future earnings.

Good luck
 
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