Deny applicants who object to performing abortions and physician assisted suicide?

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Cornfed101

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this seems crazy to me... anyone else think this is crazy? I’m all about letting people get the healthcare they want, but forcing me to do an elective procedure seems out of line.

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this seems crazy to me... anyone else think this is crazy? I’m all about letting people get the healthcare they want, but forcing me to do an elective procedure seems out of line.
I believe that you can't force a clinicians to do procedures that have a moral objection to.
 
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Canadian bioethicist vs Canadian Medical Association.
One holds the power to admit students to Med schools and the other is running his mouth.


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this seems crazy to me... anyone else think this is crazy? I’m all about letting people get the healthcare they want, but forcing me to do an elective procedure seems out of line.
Someone with more power will suggest it eventually, there are people on this forum that would want a pharmacist to lose their license for not dispensing meds based on moral objection.
 
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this seems crazy to me... anyone else think this is crazy? I’m all about letting people get the healthcare they want, but forcing me to do an elective procedure seems out of line.

It is a horrible opinion. Despite it being legal in two states? (Washington and Oregon) the current position of the AMA on “physician-assisted suicide” is against.

That aside, I agree, moral objections are valid, and in the big picture, someone else would most likely do the procedure anyways. Despite someone’s occupation, there is no way you should be able to legally force someone to do something. As long as there is no harm (procedures are elective) to the patient, then the clinicians should be able to object, and recommend another clinician who will.
 
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It is a horrible opinion. Despite it being legal in two states? (Washington and Oregon) the current position of the AMA on “physician-assisted suicide” is against.

That aside, I agree, moral objections are valid, and in the big picture, someone else would most likely do the procedure anyways. Despite someone’s occupation, there is no way you should be able to legally force someone to do something. As long as there is no harm (procedures are elective) to the patient, then the clinicians should be able to object, and recommend another clinician who will.
Shouldn’t be required to recommend others either
 
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Shouldn’t be required to recommend others either

I disagree firmly with this. It’s one thing to morally object to performing a procedure, and I’m in full support of physicians opting out of situations they aren’t comfortable in, but you shouldn’t be able to hinder a patient from getting the care they need. The least you can do is refer them to another provider imo.
 
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I disagree firmly with this. It’s one thing to morally object to performing a procedure, and I’m in full support of physicians opting out of situations they aren’t comfortable in, but you shouldn’t be able to hinder a patient from getting the care they need. The least you can do is refer them to another provider imo.
But the whole point of a physician opting out of a procedure they don't feel comfortable with is because they feel like that procedure doesn't qualify as "care they need." So requiring them to refer kind of tramples on the very principle they were standing by in the first place
 
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But the whole point of a physician opting out of a procedure they don't feel comfortable with is because they feel like that procedure doesn't qualify as "care they need." So requiring them to refer kind of tramples on the very principle they were standing by in the first place

I thought this was a moral objection- which imo is fine as long as you’re not forcing your morals on somebody else (the patient). You have the right to refuse to do it, but not to hold them back from getting the procedure at all. Whether it’s needed or wanted, if it’s a legal procedure, they should be referred somewhere else to get it done.
 
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@differentiating I respect patient autonomy, but realistically patients have had awful self-decision making capacity and will externalize when outcomes are less than perfect.
 
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I disagree firmly with this. It’s one thing to morally object to performing a procedure, and I’m in full support of physicians opting out of situations they aren’t comfortable in, but you shouldn’t be able to hinder a patient from getting the care they need. The least you can do is refer them to another provider imo.
The actual least they can do is say they aren’t providing the requested procedure/med
 
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I thought this was a moral objection- which imo is fine as long as you’re not forcing your morals on somebody else (the patient). You have the right to refuse to do it, but not to hold them back from getting the procedure at all. Whether it’s needed or wanted, if it’s a legal procedure, they should be referred somewhere else to get it done.

“Holding them back” would be getting it banned or physically knocking a phone out of their hand if they try to call another doctor

It’s not “holding them back” to say you don’t offer or refer for a particular thing, all docs should be permitted to abstain
 
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Patients themselves are inconsistent in what they want when it comes to their own care.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be referred. It’s on any agreeable provider to properly consent a patient prior to the procedure. It’s an unrelated point.
 
The actual least they can do is say they aren’t providing the requested procedure/med

If you want to argue semantics, then it’s not the least they should do. I’d consider that providing sub-standard care, personally, if you’re not at least willing to refer.
 
If you want to argue semantics, then it’s not the least they should do. I’d consider that providing sub-standard care, personally, if you’re not at least willing to refer.
You would consider it substandard to not only because you don’t have the objection. Those with the objection feel it’s substandard to offer or to refer. Plenty of room for different opinions, patients can go to whichever doc they want
 
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You would consider it substandard to not only because you don’t have the objection. Those with the objection feel it’s substandard to offer or to refer. Plenty of room for different opinions, patients can go to whichever doc they want

I would refer for procedures I do not want to perform myself. I’m not sure why you assume otherwise.
 
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I would refer for procedures I do not want to perform myself. I’m not sure why you assume otherwise.

The my opinion/morals are the only valid ones phenomenon. Like not referring people for abortion will actually stop it... k
 
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I agree with @sb247 . A physician should not be forced to perform a certain procedure if their morals or religion goes against it. And some people (like myself) would feel like I am contributing to the procedure if I refer them to a provider. Let me give you an example that relates to the law, since you seem like someone whose very focused on whats legal vs illegal (your mentality seems to be "if its legal, it should be fine per your post #9). Someone asks you to steal something. You say no because it is against the law. They ask you to refer to someone who is a thief. Forcing someone who is uncomfortable performing a procedure based on religious or ethical grounds, is like forcing them to say "OK, I will refer you to a professional thief."

However, I will play devils advocate here. While I don't think physicians should be required to refer to another provider who is comfortable with the morally ethical procedure, it does make it tough on the patient if the doc is their PCP. Kinda defeats the purpose of everything if the patient can get the referral from someone else, and I think changing PCP is too inconvenient for the patient. Not sure what the solution can be for this problem.
 
I would refer for procedures I do not want to perform myself. I’m not sure why you assume otherwise.

It’s not sub-standard care to not refer someone for an unnecessary, elective procedure that you feel goes against your morals. If I refer a patient to another physician who performs abortions, I am aiding that patient in getting an abortion. How is it not clear why I would not want to do that?
 
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I agree with @sb247 . A physician should not be forced to perform a certain procedure if their morals or religion goes against it. And some people (like myself) would feel like I am contributing to the procedure if I refer them to a provider. Let me give you an example that relates to the law, since you seem like someone whose very focused on whats legal vs illegal (your mentality seems to be "if its legal, it should be fine per your post #9). Someone asks you to steal something. You say no because it is against the law. They ask you to refer to someone who is a thief. Forcing someone who is uncomfortable performing a procedure based on religious or ethical grounds, is like forcing them to say "OK, I will refer you to a professional thief."

However, I will play devils advocate here. While I don't think physicians should be required to refer to another provider who is comfortable with the morally ethical procedure, it does make it tough on the patient if the doc is their PCP. Kinda defeats the purpose of everything if the patient can get the referral from someone else, and I think changing PCP is too inconvenient for the patient. Not sure what the solution can be for this problem.
If they really want the thing they can change pcps or find someone who doesn’t require a referral to do/provide the thing
 
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If they really want the thing they can change pcps or find someone who doesn’t require a referral to do/provide the thing
Most specialists require a referral so I would imagine that it's very difficult to get the procedure done without one. And I agree with you, there's nothing stopping the patient to find a new PCP if they really want it done, so it's all possible. It just sux for a PCP to lose a patient for a procedure is what I'm saying.
 
If they really want the thing they can change pcps or find someone who doesn’t require a referral to do/provide the thing

As they should.
 
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Most specialists require a referral so I would imagine that it's very difficult to get the procedure done without one. And I agree with you, there's nothing stopping the patient to find a new PCP if they really want it done, so it's all possible. It just sux for a PCP to lose a patient for a procedure is what I'm saying.

As someone who will not be performing elective abortions, I would be disappointed to lose a patient over that, but I would rather lose a patient to another PCP than feel like I had a hand in making an elective abortion happen.
 
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As someone who will not be performing elective abortions, I would be disappointed to lose a patient over that, but I would rather lose a patient to another PCP than feel like I had a hand in making an elective abortion happen.
I agree and would do the same. Like I said, it's just a bummer but not something I am too devastated on. TBH though, the attitude of our country is becoming more and more like that of @differentiating 's with the mentality that "if it's legal, there's nothing wrong with it", so the fact that physicians at least have the autonomy to decline a self-elected procedure based on their moral beliefs is good news for me and I'm happy with that
 
I agree and would do the same. Like I said, it's just a bummer but not something I am too devastated on. TBH though, the attitude of our country is becoming more and more like that of @differentiating 's with the mentality that "if it's legal, there's nothing wrong with it", so the fact that physicians at least have the autonomy to decline a self-elected procedure based on their moral beliefs is good news for me and I'm happy with that

For me, I object to the idea of physicians assuming their morals are the same as that of their patients and/or the correct ones, especially since I know & have had a lot of patients who struggle with access to care to begin with. Changing one's PCP is not always an easy process, so it could certainly delay or prevent care, which is where my concern comes from. My point of it being legal was more to distinguish it from people refusing to provide illegal abortions and the like, which obviously has a whole host of other factors involved beyond just morality.

Though I agree that if there was a way to know which providers were willing to provide/refer for certain aspects of healthcare and which are not, that would allow patients to opt out of the whole scenario, which would be preferable. That way, providers could refuse to refer for things, but patients wouldn't be caught in the middle of it. Everybody wins.
 
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For me, I object to the idea of physicians assuming their morals are the same as that of their patients and/or the correct ones, especially since I know & have had a lot of patients who struggle with access to care to begin with. Changing one's PCP is not always an easy process, so it could certainly delay or prevent care, which is where my concern comes from. My point of it being legal was more to distinguish it from people refusing to provide illegal abortions and the like, which obviously has a whole host of other factors involved beyond just morality.

Though I agree that if there was a way to know which providers were willing to provide/refer for certain aspects of healthcare and which are not, that would allow patients to opt out of the whole scenario, which would be preferable. That way, providers could refuse to refer for things, but patients wouldn't be caught in the middle of it. Everybody wins.
You just highlighted the entire crux of the abortion / PAS debate: one side would suggest that there are no "your morals" vs "my morals". They would say that morals are absolute. It is immoral to kill a human being. End of debate. But the other side would say that no, it is not immoral to terminate a pregnancy due to a woman being able to decide the healthcare outcomes of her own body. They would say that a fetus is not a life and therefore no one is dying. But there really is no bridge between those two gaps. You either believe one thing, or you believe the other. That is why, I think, many people are saying let a physician refuse to perform or refer. Because there will always be plenty of physicians who believe the other side of the argument.
 
For me, I object to the idea of physicians assuming their morals are the same as that of their patients and/or the correct ones, especially since I know & have had a lot of patients who struggle with access to care to begin with. Changing one's PCP is not always an easy process, so it could certainly delay or prevent care, which is where my concern comes from. My point of it being legal was more to distinguish it from people refusing to provide illegal abortions and the like, which obviously has a whole host of other factors involved beyond just morality.

Though I agree that if there was a way to know which providers were willing to provide/refer for certain aspects of healthcare and which are not, that would allow patients to opt out of the whole scenario, which would be preferable. That way, providers could refuse to refer for things, but patients wouldn't be caught in the middle of it. Everybody wins.
InB4 physicians who list they would not perform abortions on their practices website are publically shamed and bombarded by fake Yelp and google reviews.
 
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this seems crazy to me... anyone else think this is crazy? I’m all about letting people get the healthcare they want, but forcing me to do an elective procedure seems out of line.

It's completely absurd and i hope it fails completely. Physicians and students shouldn't be forced to perform procedures that violate their personal morals and beliefs. And doing so is a massive red flag on the school/program that suggests malignant behavior on their part.
 
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As someone who will not be performing elective abortions, I would be disappointed to lose a patient over that, but I would rather lose a patient to another PCP than feel like I had a hand in making an elective abortion happen.
*sigh* this is something I think about a lot. I love Ob/Gyn, family med, and I'm all about providing care to women. Islam encourages abortion in ( trigger warning:) rape. incest, and cases where the mother's life is in danger. But does not recognize/condone elective abortions. Now, whether or not it's prohibited for a Muslim Doc to perform one is up for debate. I want to provide abortions for my patients who need them, but I also want to provide elective abortions, because I don't think a teenage girl should have her life ruined over one night of unprotected sex. But I don't want to pick and choose. I could honestly cry this gets me a lot.
Anywho, back to what you're saying. I could just refer to them to another doc. I really keep coming back to the idea of being an Ob/Gyn , family med doc for planned parenthood, but never mentioned it in any of my essays because what if the " Would you do an elective abortion as a Muslim doc!?!?!" comes up.
 
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I could just refer to them to another doc.
The reason why @Matthew9Thirtyfive among others is not willing to do that referral is because they would be playing a hand in that abortion and it would be a sin. While they weren't the direct cause of the abortion, they helped in it.

It also is a sin in your religion [Al-Maida 5:2] however you do have your own personal beliefs that might not coincide with your religion.
 
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*sigh* this is something I think about a lot. I love Ob/Gyn, family med, and I'm all about providing care to women. Islam encourages abortion in ( trigger warning:)rape. incest, and cases where the mother's life is in danger. But does not recognize/condone elective abortions. Now, whether or not it's prohibited for a Muslim Doc to perform one is up for debate. I want to provide abortions for my patients who need them, but I also want to provide elective abortions, because I don't think a teenage girl should have her life ruined over one night of unprotected sex. But I don't want to pick and choose. I could honestly cry this gets me a lot.
Anywho, back to what you're saying. I could just refer to them to another doc. I really keep coming back to the idea of being an Ob/Gyn , family med doc for planned parenthood, but never mentioned it in any of my essays because what if the " Would you do an elective abortion as a Muslim doc!?!?!" comes up.

The chief of ob/gyn at a prominent hospital once told me, "Don't enter a specialty when you have a moral issue against a fundamental basis of that specialty." This was re: prescribing birth control and not abortion, but it's a general mood. There are sub-specialties in ob/gyn that don't deal with elective abortions (REI, gyn-onc). I know of attending in these specialties who are against elective abortions, and I think that's fine. But if you do general ob/gyn, you're going to run into a lot of patients who are considering elective abortions, and at some point, you're not providing proper care to your patients. I think with PCP/family medicine, you're less likely to encounter patients seeking elective abortions, and it won't be that big of an issue.

But I keep imagining, as a young woman, even as someone who is knowledgeable and well-informed about her own health & health insurance, if I went to a PCP/obgyn asking about an elective abortion, only to be told that I can't be helped there, and I will be given no other resources, I would be extremely upset. Especially given the emotional/mental state that a woman is already in when she has to make such a decision.
 
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The chief of ob/gyn at a prominent hospital once told me, "Don't enter a specialty when you have a moral issue against a fundamental basis of that specialty." This was re: prescribing birth control and not abortion, but it's a general mood. There are sub-specialties in ob/gyn that don't deal with elective abortions (REI, gyn-onc). I know of attending in these specialties who are against elective abortions, and I think that's fine. But if you do general ob/gyn, you're going to run into a lot of patients who are considering elective abortions, and at some point, you're not providing proper care to your patients. I think with PCP/family medicine, you're less likely to encounter patients seeking elective abortions, and it won't be that big of an issue.

But I keep imagining, as a young woman, even as someone who is knowledgeable and well-informed about her own health & health insurance, if I went to a PCP/obgyn asking about an elective abortion, only to be told that I can't be helped there, and I will be given no other resources, I would be extremely upset. Especially given the emotional/mental state that a woman is already in when she has to make such a decision.
I don't think ob/gyn is an issue for people who don't want to perform abortions. There are plenty of ob/gyns who don't perform it even if they are morally fine with it
 
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I don't think ob/gyn is an issue for people who don't want to perform abortions. There are plenty of ob/gyns who don't perform it even if they are morally fine with it

That's true, especially if you're doing a sub-specialty. But general ob/gyns who serve as PCP are usually the first line of resource for women seeking termination, and at the very least, there will be patients who are on the fence about making the decision & will want to know their options. I do think it is unethical for a doctor to withhold information on possible options.
 
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The chief of ob/gyn at a prominent hospital once told me, "Don't enter a specialty when you have a moral issue against a fundamental basis of that specialty." This was re: prescribing birth control and not abortion, but it's a general mood. There are sub-specialties in ob/gyn that don't deal with elective abortions (REI, gyn-onc). I know of attending in these specialties who are against elective abortions, and I think that's fine. But if you do general ob/gyn, you're going to run into a lot of patients who are considering elective abortions, and at some point, you're not providing proper care to your patients. I think with PCP/family medicine, you're less likely to encounter patients seeking elective abortions, and it won't be that big of an issue.

But I keep imagining, as a young woman, even as someone who is knowledgeable and well-informed about her own health & health insurance, if I went to a PCP/obgyn asking about an elective abortion, only to be told that I can't be helped there, and I will be given no other resources, I would be extremely upset. Especially given the emotional/mental state that a woman is already in when she has to make such a decision.

This is why I live and breathe by my morals are mine and mine alone. I cannot pretend I know what is best for anyone else.

Reddit also has a nice list compiled of physicans good for reproductive health and who to avoid because they think theyre morally superior than everyone else.

I also know someone who was kicked out of their church for going through fertility treatments because it was “against god”. Im not naive enough to think physicians like this don’t exist. Leave religion out of it. Women have the free will to decide what to do with their own bodies whether it be IVF/other fertility stuff, birth control (the horror), or even termination. We have the RIGHT to make that decision for ourselves and nobody has the right to tell me otherwise.
 
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We have the RIGHT to make that decision for ourselves and nobody has the right to tell me otherwise.

Please don't hijack my thread. I am never going to be convinced that abortion is ok (excluding rape, incest, imminent danger to the mother) just as you are never going to be convinced that it is wrong. Let's leave it at that. We are not discussing the moral correctness of these procedures, simply if doctors should be forced to provide them.
 
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Please don't hijack my thread. I am never going to be convinced that abortion is ok (excluding rape, incest, imminent danger to the mother) just as you are never going to be convinced that it is wrong. Let's leave it at that. We are not discussing the moral correctness of these procedures, simply if doctors should be forced to provide them.
not really sure what you expected to happen when you posted this article lol
 
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The chief of ob/gyn at a prominent hospital once told me, "Don't enter a specialty when you have a moral issue against a fundamental basis of that specialty." This was re: prescribing birth control and not abortion, but it's a general mood. There are sub-specialties in ob/gyn that don't deal with elective abortions (REI, gyn-onc). I know of attending in these specialties who are against elective abortions, and I think that's fine. But if you do general ob/gyn, you're going to run into a lot of patients who are considering elective abortions, and at some point, you're not providing proper care to your patients. I think with PCP/family medicine, you're less likely to encounter patients seeking elective abortions, and it won't be that big of an issue.

But I keep imagining, as a young woman, even as someone who is knowledgeable and well-informed about her own health & health insurance, if I went to a PCP/obgyn asking about an elective abortion, only to be told that I can't be helped there, and I will be given no other resources, I would be extremely upset. Especially given the emotional/mental state that a woman is already in when she has to make such a decision.
It is not improper care to abstain from elective abortions.
 
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This is why I live and breathe by my morals are mine and mine alone. I cannot pretend I know what is best for anyone else.

Reddit also has a nice list compiled of physicans good for reproductive health and who to avoid because they think theyre morally superior than everyone else.

I also know someone who was kicked out of their church for going through fertility treatments because it was “against god”. Im not naive enough to think physicians like this don’t exist. Leave religion out of it. Women have the free will to decide what to do with their own bodies whether it be IVF/other fertility stuff, birth control (the horror), or even termination. We have the RIGHT to make that decision for ourselves and nobody has the right to tell me otherwise.
And a physician has autonomy as well
 
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I will admit that 37 posts is further than I thought it would go...

Honestly, I enjoyed reading everyone's comments, they were all very constructive and informative. This article was posted in r/philosophy on Reddit and regardless of what they collectively believe (atheism, pro-choice, etc.) they did not agree with the stance in the opinion piece. Having to force people to do procedures, or even forcing them to make referrals is authoritarian, and amoral.
 
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Do women really go to their PCP to get a referral for abortion? Don't they just go to the phone book (or these days, Google) or call their local Planned Parenthood?

I can see where it might be tricky for 2nd trimester abortions due to fetal anomolies and in those cases, physicians might have an obligation to point patients who want to terminate the pregancy in the direction of providers who do those highly specialized procedures.
 
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The chief of ob/gyn at a prominent hospital once told me, "Don't enter a specialty when you have a moral issue against a fundamental basis of that specialty." This was re: prescribing birth control and not abortion, but it's a general mood. There are sub-specialties in ob/gyn that don't deal with elective abortions (REI, gyn-onc). I know of attending in these specialties who are against elective abortions, and I think that's fine. But if you do general ob/gyn, you're going to run into a lot of patients who are considering elective abortions, and at some point, you're not providing proper care to your patients. I think with PCP/family medicine, you're less likely to encounter patients seeking elective abortions, and it won't be that big of an issue.

But I keep imagining, as a young woman, even as someone who is knowledgeable and well-informed about her own health & health insurance, if I went to a PCP/obgyn asking about an elective abortion, only to be told that I can't be helped there, and I will be given no other resources, I would be extremely upset. Especially given the emotional/mental state that a woman is already in when she has to make such a decision.

its funny, to me this is really a simple point, and idk why it doesn’t get brought up more. I too don’t believe that physicians should be made to do anything they feel uncomfortable with. I also feel though if you have significant objections to an aspect of a specialty, then you should just choose something else. For instance, I’m not going into plastic surgery bc i think a big portion of it is unnecessary (tummy tucks, cosmetic implants etc etc). There are obviously exceptions, and instances where cosmetic surgery is necessary or life-saving but I know that those are probably going to be the exception to the rule as far as what I’d face as a plastic surgeon. I know that’s not fair to the people I’d be responsible for- even though I don’t feel they need a nose job they do and they deserve to have their right to get access to that respected.

plastic surgery is obviously not in the same ballpark as issues concerning abortions, birth control, etc but I feel like the logic is kind of the same- if you have significant objections then why go into a specialty where you’re going to have to deal with that stuff more than you won’t?

edit: said “field” meant “specialty”

second: said “should” and meant “shouldn’t” lol the thumbs sorry
 
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its funny, to me this is really a simple point, and idk why it doesn’t get brought up more. I too don’t believe that physicians should NOT be made to do anything they feel uncomfortable with. I also feel though if you have significant objections to an aspect of a specialty, then you should just choose something else. For instance, I’m not going into plastic surgery bc i think a big portion of it is unnecessary (tummy tucks, cosmetic implants etc etc). There are obviously exceptions, and instances where cosmetic surgery is necessary or life-saving but I know that those are probably going to be the exception to the rule as far as what I’d face as a plastic surgeon. I know that’s not fair to the people I’d be responsible for- even though I don’t feel they need a nose job they do and they deserve to have their right to get access to that respected.

plastic surgery is obviously not in the same ballpark as issues concerning abortions, birth control, etc but I feel like the logic is kind of the same- if you have significant objections then why go into a specialty where you’re going to have to deal with that stuff more than you won’t?

edit: said “field” meant “specialty”

second: said “should” and meant “shouldn’t” lol the thumbs sorry

Good points but there are also patients who are looking for physicians who have the same moral sensibilities that they have and that specifically don't perform abortions etc. Find a Pro-Life OBGYN Search Therefore, I think that there is a place in OB-GYN/family medicine for practioners who don't perform these procedures as long as they are clear to patients up-front, before they make an appointment, that they don't do these procedures.
 
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Someone with more power will suggest it eventually, there are people on this forum that would want a pharmacist to lose their license for not dispensing meds based on moral objection.
They should. They have a private employer who can fire them when they want. If they run their own pharmacy they are free to do as they please
 
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Please don't hijack my thread. I am never going to be convinced that abortion is ok (excluding rape, incest, imminent danger to the mother) just as you are never going to be convinced that it is wrong. Let's leave it at that. We are not discussing the moral correctness of these procedures, simply if doctors should be forced to provide them.

Preallo tends to hijack and derail threads into random arguments unfortunately. This thread, given its particular sensitivity, is especially susceptible.

I still maintain that any school or program that forces students and trainees to perform procedures that violate their morals and beliefs are malignant, shameful and offensive, and i hope such absurd and inane requirements fail completely.
 
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I have a particular moral stance on the issue of forcing physicians to perform procedures they object to (I can agree with some posts above except in extreme or emergent circumstances).

However, I'm more curious about the reverse - would it be acceptable for an institution to reject applicants if they ARE comfortable or do not object to performing certain procedures?

For example, could a religious institution ethically reject an applicant who has expressed a willingness to perform abortions or even an applicant who may have gotten an abortion in the past?

EDIT: I want to make it clear that this comment has no relation to whether I support abortion or not - I have a particular stance on that issue. I am only talking about my stance on making providers perform a procedure that they don't think is necessary, not whether I agree with those providers or not on that necessity of that procedure.
 
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They should. They have a private employer who can fire them fiiiiire what they want. If they run their own pharmacy they are free to do as they please
I’m with you on an employer setting terms, not the go
 
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