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Dermatology really out of reach for DO?

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CaribbeanBlue

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Where does this assumption come from aside from the fact that it is one of the most competitive residencies out of MD schools?

I ask this because although I used to believe the same, I have been searching for DO's to shadow and I have found a good number of DO dermatologists, even more so than surgery.

I live in southern california by the way.
 

NurWollen

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Where does this assumption come from aside from the fact that it is one of the most competitive residencies out of MD schools?

I ask this because although I used to believe the same, I have been searching for DO's to shadow and I have found a good number of DO dermatologists, even more so than surgery.

I live in southern california by the way.

There are a lot of DO dermatologists out there. That doesn't mitigate the fact that it is an extremely competitive field and that the chances of any one individual DO student making it are small, but it can obviously be done.

Most DO dermatologists complete AOA residencies. From what I understand, the majority of AOA derm spots require applicants to have completed a residency in FM or IM 1st. This rules it out for a lot of DO's I imagine because after one residency I think most people are ready to actually start working for real. Still, it has occurred to my that as an FP in a derm residency you would certainly have the skills and time to moonlight so you can start making good money. Also, since all DO FM residencies are actually dual FM/OMM residencies, wouldn't someone who goes to such a residency followed by a derm residency be triple board certified? Pretty cool.
 
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cliquesh

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ACGME derm is likely out of reach for DO. AOA obviously is a different story.

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This is true. If you were to graduate #1 in your class, get a 260 on the usmle, a 700 and an 800 on the comlex, with LORs from prominent dermatologists, and apply to all of the acgme.dermatology programs, you will still not match. (Those were the stats of a friend of mine who failed to match).


There are 28 AOA dermatology residencies. Most of them take 1 or 2 residents per year, so maybe there are 42 AOA derm spots offered each year. There were 4600 DO graduates last year.

By the way, you never see dermatology matches on schools' match lists because you match into AOA dermatology after your intern year. So those interested on derm, apply for a traditional rotating internship, or in some cases a family medicine residency, and then during their intern year they apply for derm.

Additional, maybe 30 to 50% of the derm positions are unfunded, which means you don't get paid during your residency.
 

SpecterGT260

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Where does this assumption come from aside from the fact that it is one of the most competitive residencies out of MD schools?

I ask this because although I used to believe the same, I have been searching for DO's to shadow and I have found a good number of DO dermatologists, even more so than surgery.

I live in southern california by the way.

The AOA has its own residencies. They put out their own derm and ortho docs.

Go look up the nrmp match data and get cozy with it. It is all in there

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CaribbeanBlue

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According to that data, it looks to me like DO's are not much better for matching than the Caribbean schools as far as specialities... Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Why then all the bash on Caribbean schools? Is it just more convenient to go to a DO school in the US despite the chances of getting into more competitive residencies being similar?
 

MedPR

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According to that data, it looks to me like DO's are not much better for matching than the Caribbean schools as far as specialities... Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Why then all the bash on Caribbean schools? Is it just more convenient to go to a DO school in the US despite the chances of getting into more competitive residencies being similar?

Ugh.

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SpecterGT260

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According to that data, it looks to me like DO's are not much better for matching than the Caribbean schools as far as specialities... Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Why then all the bash on Caribbean schools? Is it just more convenient to go to a DO school in the US despite the chances of getting into more competitive residencies being similar?
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I was wondering if you were another sneaky Caribbean sympathizer who was going to sneak in a carib discussion under the guise of DO matchability.

According to that data, DOs match much (i.e. drastically...) better than carib grads. They also have their own match which can accommodate about 50% of their grads which carib students do not have. If you disagree you are not looking at the data correctly. I'm not aware of the last time a carib grad went to any competitive field...... I am aware how often it has happened for DOs over the last 5 years. You shouldnt concern yourself with ROADS in the ACGME as either IMG or DO for at least a few years after the AOA acquisition happens. If you are carib, just cross your fingers that you can match IM, and then cross another set and hope that you will be one of the minority lucky enough to even graduate making that first cross not just a wasted exercise in manual dexterity :thumbup:
 

JGimpel

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According to that data, it looks to me like DO's are not much better for matching than the Caribbean schools as far as specialities... Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Why then all the bash on Caribbean schools? Is it just more convenient to go to a DO school in the US despite the chances of getting into more competitive residencies being similar?
Another Pre-med SENIOR MEMBER.

Dermatology is tough for anyone from any school to get into. Most fields are closed to Caribbean school graduates. Look at how many start a quarter/semester then how many are left at graduation, then make a percent out of that and the 1 or 2 per competitive field that made it in and you're well into the fractions of a percent. Use the search function for the same stuff with all the numbers behind it that gets posted several times a year. This is what gets pre-meds bashed a lot on SDN.

/interest
 

CaribbeanBlue

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:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I was wondering if you were another sneaky Caribbean sympathizer who was going to sneak in a carib discussion under the guise of DO matchability.

According to that data, DOs match much (i.e. drastically...) better than carib grads. They also have their own match which can accommodate about 50% of their grads which carib students do not have. If you disagree you are not looking at the data correctly. I'm not aware of the last time a carib grad went to any competitive field...... I am aware how often it has happened for DOs over the last 5 years. You shouldnt concern yourself with ROADS in the ACGME as either IMG or DO for at least a few years after the AOA acquisition happens. If you are carib, just cross your fingers that you can match IM, and then cross another set and hope that you will be one of the minority lucky enough to even graduate making that first cross not just a wasted exercise in manual dexterity :thumbup:

Ohhhh that makes more sense. I am not promoting the caribbean schools and whatnot, for myself I would retake my MCAT for 2 more years and get rejected from both US MD/DO schools twice before I consider the Caribbean schools. On a positive note, my general surgeon who did my appendectomy was a Caribbean graduate. She must have had to pull so many strings to work in southern california.
 
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Mr Kenobi

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According to that data, it looks to me like DO's are not much better for matching than the Caribbean schools as far as specialities... Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Why then all the bash on Caribbean schools? Is it just more convenient to go to a DO school in the US despite the chances of getting into more competitive residencies being similar?

2477331_o.gif
 

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According to that data, it looks to me like DO's are not much better for matching than the Caribbean schools as far as specialities... Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Why then all the bash on Caribbean schools? Is it just more convenient to go to a DO school in the US despite the chances of getting into more competitive residencies being similar?

josh.png


Seems legit.
 
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Mr Kenobi

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Proud to say that I can do this whenever I feel like it, and I go to a US school. Winning :thumbup:

Don't miss class tho...wouldn't want to violate that attendance policy:naughty:


Edit: I don't know if NSU actually has an attendance policy...I just know that my school doesn't so I wanted to attempt to rustle the ol jimmies...and I will be jelly of your weather when I move to the Midwest and freeze my Jedi balls off.;)
 
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cabinbuilder

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There are a lot of DO dermatologists out there. That doesn't mitigate the fact that it is an extremely competitive field and that the chances of any one individual DO student making it are small, but it can obviously be done.

Most DO dermatologists complete AOA residencies. From what I understand, the majority of AOA derm spots require applicants to have completed a residency in FM or IM 1st. This rules it out for a lot of DO's I imagine because after one residency I think most people are ready to actually start working for real. Still, it has occurred to my that as an FP in a derm residency you would certainly have the skills and time to moonlight so you can start making good money. Also, since all DO FM residencies are actually dual FM/OMM residencies, wouldn't someone who goes to such a residency followed by a derm residency be triple board certified? Pretty cool.

You would be incorrect. You do an intern year, not an entire residency. CMS does not pay for a doctor to do 2 residencies.
 
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Temperature101

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Where does this assumption come from aside from the fact that it is one of the most competitive residencies out of MD schools?

I ask this because although I used to believe the same, I have been searching for DO's to shadow and I have found a good number of DO dermatologists, even more so than surgery.

I live in southern california by the way.

Derm is almost out of reach for everyone (MD/DO). Period.
 

as1212559

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You would be incorrect. You do an intern year, not an entire residency. CMS does not pay for a doctor to do 2 residencies.

This. I've met some interns who were rotating at the FM residency clinic I shadow at that were going into derm.

I'm curious though, do these guys match a TRI the first time through and then re-enter and match derm, or do you rank derm as an M4 and then just have to find an internship after you match?
 

kami333

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My dermatologist is a DO - she did her residency at Mayo Clinic. However, I think she's a true outlier. As mentioned, the odds of any one DO pulling that off are slim.

Same here, last time I was at the OSU derm clinic there was a DO resident there. Hard to imagine what her stats must have been like.
 
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Don't miss class tho...wouldn't want to violate that attendance policy:naughty:


Edit: I don't know if NSU actually has an attendance policy...I just know that my school doesn't so I wanted to attempt to rustle the ol jimmies...and I will be jelly of your weather when I move to the Midwest and freeze my Jedi balls off.;)

Here they're, sir!

two-ice-balls-1024x768.jpg
 

sterlingh87

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I am curious, because I have never heard anything about this, but does doing a derm or ortho residency that is AOA accredited limit you in any way? Like is the accreditation only good for osteopathic hospitals or clinics or can you pretty much practice derm or ortho wherever an MD can?
 

MedPR

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I am curious, because I have never heard anything about this, but does doing a derm or ortho residency that is AOA accredited limit you in any way? Like is the accreditation only good for osteopathic hospitals or clinics or can you pretty much practice derm or ortho wherever an MD can?

Some fellowships won't take you if you didn't do an ACGME residency. Otherwise there are no limitations.
 

sterlingh87

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Some fellowships won't take you if you didn't do an ACGME residency. Otherwise there are no limitations.

Good to know. I think I saw a similair thread where someone made a comment that some AOA residencies are only accepted at certain hostpitals that accept AOA residencies and not others. I never questioned because I didnt know and the thread was old and inactive, so I am glad I could finally ask the question to people actively discussing it. Thanks MedPR
 

SpecterGT260

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Some fellowships won't take you if you didn't do an ACGME residency. Otherwise there are no limitations.
I'm not sure this is accurate.... that is what was on the table which is what prompted the new resolution in which the ACGME will absorb the AOA programs and give the AOA a seat at the table in determining how they are governed, but I am not aware that any fellowships were currently closed to DOs who had not taken an ACGME intern year.

Good to know. I think I saw a similair thread where someone made a comment that some AOA residencies are only accepted at certain hostpitals that accept AOA residencies and not others. I never questioned because I didnt know and the thread was old and inactive, so I am glad I could finally ask the question to people actively discussing it. Thanks MedPR

By 2015 (estimated per their press releases) this will not be an issue at any rate as all AOA programs will be accredited by the ACGME.
 

Mosonik

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" I'm not sure this is accurate.... that is what was on the table which is what prompted the new resolution in which the ACGME will absorb the AOA programs and give the AOA a seat at the table in determining how they are governed, but I am not aware that any fellowships were currently closed to DOs who had not taken an ACGME intern year. "


I was just thinking this. The only way it would be possible (if what MedPR says is true) is if it was done unofficially
 

SpecterGT260

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I was just thinking this. The only way it would be possible (if what MedPR says is true) is if it was done unofficially

Yeah, and that may happen. Same wiht some residencies though. However for fellowship (in an unofficial sense) I doubt they care a whole lot about your intern year. That is your "bitchwork" year, for all intents and purposes.
 
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