Did I apply late or was it my application...Part Deux

[harano99]

Sorry for the long post. I know its Monday and i'm feeling the drag here at work. I hope you will read this though as i'm desperate for a non-biased opinion.

After reading the original post by MonaLisa I've had similar worries about my application. I applied real late (primaries in sept because i took the MCAT in august). I initially didn't want to apply so late but pressure got to me and i applied to about 12 schools, mostly California schools and a smattering of out of state ones, not top-tier but locationed near biotech (for reasons stated later). I received about 70% secondaries and no interviews. Heres some background information.

Background:
Undergrad school - Top UC
Science GPA 2.9
Total GPA 3.1
(Bioengineering, I blew off first two years because i was stupid)
Fresh-soph gpa 2.5
Jun-senior gpa - 3.6

Grad school
GPA 3.7 (M.S. Bioengineering)

MCAT V11, PS14, BS12 Writing: T (37T)

1 year (this last one) of Volunteer work:
(Biomedical Engineering at local UC school, mentoring inner city children, Local free clinic ...although not alot of clinical work being done, just clerical)
3 years of research:
(Working on medical implants at reasearch labs at UC & LBL, attending conferences and wrote posters/paper)
3 years working in industry:
(medical implants - cardiovascular) where i have contact with surgeons, cardiologists. Doing product development, things like compassionate cases and submitting reports to the FDA, attending clinical cases and conferences.

Yes my undergrad gpa blows, i won't deny it. My original goal had always been to work in the medical device industry as a engineer. My outlook has changed and i wrote a pretty good PS (took months) about my motivational shift and my goals. I of course will have to rewrite that or at least repolish.

No real leadership at school, well maybe, mostly leadership at my job...

So heres the big question. Do i just suck or did i apply too late?

What has changed since last year? 1 more year of industry exp, that 1 year of volunteer work which has had nice results...but that pretty much sums it up.


I hope to hear your opinions. Brutally honest is best. I'm a engineer.

Edit: After talking to med school admission advisors today, most suggest that I take some additional undergrad (upper division) courses at a accredited school nearby, not so much to improve my GPA (as i'm in a big hole already) but to show that i have improved and i can handle med school. What do you guys think about this?

Thanks

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[MilkmanAl]

It's your app. The GPA is killing you. Believe, I'd know. Mine's exactly the same as yours. Depending on what you actually did in industry, you might be a bit light on clinical experience, too.

I'd suggest a SMP, but most of those are closed now, I believe. Tufts is still open for apps, and I think Drexel is, too. Apply to those, and if you want to give it another go, apply to many more schools, and set your sights "lower." Go for 30-35-ish, including your state schools.

 

[Ebola Virus]

I think it's a culmination of factors that led to the zero interviews. Sure, your gpa is bad, but, you've demonstrated an upward trend. You can definitely fix it up by taking a couple of more upper level science course, but it still won't dramatically raise your undergraduate science gpa.
Your MCAT is stellar, congratulation on that! There's much more than gpa or MCAT that will gain acceptance to med school though.

Factors against you:
-slightly low gpa
-late applicant
-applied narrowly, need to apply more than 12 schools
-lack of clinical experience --> here, you even noted that your volunteer work is more of a clerical duty...not much patient/doctor contact.

It's a bit too late now, but I think some physician shadowing would have helped, had you done that last year. How are the LORs (stellar/so-so/not so impressive)? What are your ECs like? Think on the positive side, unlike most med-applicant, you've got a masters in bioengineering and research (?) to discuss. Also, this time around, apply much more broadly and early. I would go ahead and take the upper level science course if that's what your advisor had recommend since it does show that you're competent in taking hard science courses.
Being brutally honest, I think that if you applied early and broadly and include in exceptional ECs, you'll get into one of the med school (DO or MD). It just takes persistence.

 

[harano99]

In response:

I've had light physician shadowing at the free-clinic, but nothing substantial. In my job i'm involved with product development and that means going to cases and interacting with surgeons and cardiologists. I'm not there when they're talking to the patient but i've been there where the patient is under and they're opening him/her up and doing the procedure. I don't know if this counts? I'm also part of animal studies, ovine models mostly...although i'm pretty sure that doesn't count.

As far as extracurriculars, i have basically none from my college days, other than religious ones. I have a lot of undergraduate research though.

I've also (for the last year) been involved in the nearby university's engineering department as part of projects involving industry (i had to mentor several students for a whole year), and worked with inner city children, but this is all in my original post.

I've no idea how my LORs are, i have five. Three are definitely stellar and i don't know the quality of the other two (probably so-so's but i'm just guessing).

On the additional note, do you think taking a class now (like starting summer or fall) would even help my application if i were to apply this year?

 

[Ariodant]

I would advice against applying this upcoming cycle. A year of substantial clinical experience and maybe some post-bacc course work will help your application. Right now, with your industrial background and relatively little clinical immersion, I can understand why some schools might stay unconvinced.

 

[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

I would advice against applying this upcoming cycle. A year of substantial clinical experience and maybe some post-bacc course work will help your application. Right now, with your industrial background and relatively little clinical immersion, I can understand why some schools might stay unconvinced.

I'd agree, it seems a bit late for this app cycle to enroll in undergrad upper level courses, given that was suggested by an (or more than one?) adcomm, may be needed to take 1/2 dozen or so courses, do well, and then apply next season? From what was listed on this thread, the improvements from last app cycle to this one don't seem too substantial in light of GPA being likely the main detractor. Might be a thought to recontact the admissions committees and get a feel for their sensitivity to GPA, i.e. would a higher GPA due to advanced science (undergrad) courses be seen as slight, moderate, or substantial strengthening of your application? (do the schools have a GPA cutoff, possibly unofficial?)

ps how the heck did you score a 37 on the MCAT? I'll trade you .25 of my undergrad GPA for 5 points of your MCAT score! I'd be one happy camper with your score!

 

[harano99]

Oh well. The MCAT was easy for me, if theres one thing i'm good at its school and tests. I only had my job and the MCAT to study for and i started studying in April, took the test in August.

The MCAT isn't really (i think) a measure of intelligence but more a measure of memory, which i have in spades, unfortunately. The gpa is a measure (i think) of motivation and discipline. Both of which i severely lacked coming out of high school...thus my subpar undergraduate gpa.

I don't know if I can wait another year for applications again. Getting old.

And when we talk about "clinical experience" are we talking about doctor patient interaction? Because i've shadowed medical students and physicians before at the free clinic. Its just that alot of the premed students that volunteer with me tend to all volunteer (fight for) shadowing time and neglect the paperwork that needs to be done. And me being the stupid engineer/team player that I am usually volunteer for those roles because...hey someone has to do it or else nothing gets done...

 

[RxnMan]

Here's the challenge: vanishingly few schools will take a chance on you with that GPA. No matter how good you are in the other parts of your app, most'll look at that one number and can it. I know because it happened to me.

I was in very nearly the same situation when I was applying - even down to the engineering degree and MCAT. I had pubs, research and clinical experience coming out the ears, MS degree, great LORs, and I either knew, or had worked for, half of the faculty at my state med school, on and on...

In hindsight, I could have done one simple thing to make things much easier. Got that ugrad GPA up. It is stupid, but the ADCOMs want to see a number they can stomach. How low is that number? I don't know. But that number needs to come up.

If you aren't willing to go another round or two of applications it takes to take the classes to get that ugrad GPA up, (but I'll tell you that there's a 40 y/o in my class,) you can do another thing - apply early, and apply widely.

 

[Luxian]

The GPA's a kicker (I have a 3.1 GPA and 37 MCAT myself) but I think the biggest problem was the late app. You did exactly what I did -- taking the Aug MCAT and getting primaries in October and secondaries in Nov. That's WAY too late, especially for California schools. I reapplied with pretty much the same application the next year (I rewrote my essays but otherwise it was the same). I had all my primaries in in June and then did secondaries in Aug and Sep.

The GPA still got me pretty bad. I only had 4 interviews out of 16 apps, but I'll be attending med school in another two months.

(You can check out my info at mdapps 9174)

 

[gman33]

I'd do a SMP next year if you can still get in one.
Your UG gpa is too low to improve it significantly. You could try a a year of upper level UG classes, but the GPA won't move much. The SMP would be better for someone in your situation. If you want to apply again this cycle, make sure you apply VERY broadly. You won't be competitive in CA, so make sure you apply to 20-30 schools outside of CA. I think you'd be better off not applying this cycle, do the SMP and then try again.
Your MCAT shows you can do it, but you need to demonstrate that you can do well in med school level classes.

 

[bozz]

The GPA's a kicker (I have a 3.1 GPA and 37 MCAT myself) but I think the biggest problem was the late app. You did exactly what I did -- taking the Aug MCAT and getting primaries in October and secondaries in Nov. That's WAY too late, especially for California schools. I reapplied with pretty much the same application the next year (I rewrote my essays but otherwise it was the same). I had all my primaries in in June and then did secondaries in Aug and Sep.

The GPA still got me pretty bad. I only had 4 interviews out of 16 apps, but I'll be attending med school in another two months.

(You can check out my info at mdapps 9174)

Wow, very impressive! you even got interviews at UChicago, Columbia, and Tufts... and got into Case!

 

[TexasTriathlete]

You're applying to the wrong places. Find out which schools like non-trads more, and are more willing to overlook som poor numbers in the presence of a strong upward trend/good MCAT/unusual circumstances/etc.

I wouldn't bother with California schools. Everyone in California wants to go to med school.

 

[Blade28]

I had a slightly similar situation when I was in undergrad - same major (Bioengineering), GPA that wasn't quite up to standard, high MCAT. I had to bust my ass to raise that GPA despite also working 40 hours/week throughout undergrad.

In the end, I just decided to play it safe and apply early and VERY widely (a little over 30 schools). In your situation, with your undergrad GPA so far below the mean for matriculants (which is currently around a 3.65), I'd strongly consider applying to lots of DO schools as well. As others have stated, the rest of your app may be strong but your low GPA will not pass many schools' screens.

Best of luck.