Did I screw myself over?

[link26]

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Hey guys and girls. I'm glad I found a huge pre/med community to hang out in............ and discuss my problems with.

This post is about my concern with my "science gpa" as it applies to med school. I have just started to fiddle with the AMCAS.


I spent 5 years at UC berkeley, and finally graduated in 2003, majoring in Molecular and Cell Biology with an emphasis on Immunology. I was one of the slow people, and I got mowed down by half my classmates. It was hell.

I had to take biochemistry, cell biology, genetics, immunology, and physical chemistry as upper division requirements for the MCB major. I never got higher than a C+ in any of these 5 classes. In fact, I got a D in biochem and retook the class, only to get a C+. I got a D in cell biology twice and only got a C+ the third time around. I got a D in genetics, and I have decided not to retake it at Berkeley, because I wanted to leave the school badly and luckily met the graduation requirements. Most importantly, I knew I would get killed again if I retook Genetics.

I strongly believe that I understand the bulk of the material mentioned above. I just can't seem to do well on the exams the professors write up. The grading is harsh, with the mean usually being around 50-60% per exam.


My grades for the premed required courses weren't as bad, and I never retook any of them.
Chemistry: A-
Ochem (2 semesters): C+, A (I slacked off 1st semester and got killed)
Biology (2 sem): A, B+
Physics (2 sem): B+, B

and I got 11 on both science sections of the MCAT.

If you just take the grades from my premed required courses, along with my MCAT score, I think I'd have a good shot at a handful of medical schools.

But I think I screwed myself the last 2-3 years by taking all those upper division science classes that I mentioned above.
All those upper division non-premed science classes do factor into my science gpa, do they not?


I have been told by my premed advisor not to apply for medical school, but i think that I have held off too long already. I am now 2 years late, relative to my peers from the entering class of 1998.
I have also been told that we get bonus points due to the very rigorous nature of our classes, Berkeley being the top public university.
So I have decided to go ahead and plop down the cash to apply to 30 of the worst medical schools in the U.S and press my luck.

What would ya'll do if you were in my shoes?

 

[Street Philosopher]

Bonus points can't outweigh C+, D, C+, D, D, C+, D. If I were you I'd do something else, but if you want to risk it, then I would probably do post-bacc and prove that you're capable of putting together and maintaining an A average over 2 years. Even if you get a 4.0 at post-bac, my guess is that many schools will give you crap for those undergrad grades. It's risky, in my relatively uninformed opinion.

 

[zinjanthropus]

there are no black and white answers to these types of questions, you are a complete package......whether or not your grades in upper-division science courses are going to screw you over or not will be determined by how that compares to the other components of your application.....you have great science mcat scores so that will really help a lot.....plus, your overall gpa may still be fairly high even with those grades.....the point is that you should not say, 'oh, i have this negative aspect of my application, should i even apply'.....instead you should say, how does this negative aspect of my application relate to the other parts of my package and how do i plan to explain it....there are tons of posts on this forum from members who were accepted to medical school with imperfect pasts...also, look at the mean science/overall gpas at the schools that you are interested in as a guide

 

[link26]

looks like i'm in a catch 22. 🙁

If i majored in something else, I probably would be fine today.

But I went ahead and decided to major in Immunology because I liked the subject..... only to find out that my peers considered it the most difficult major in the department.... which I found out the hard way.

I wish they would have a 'premed req only' gpa rather than a 'total science gpa'... because undoubtedly, not everyone gets A's in more difficult science classes, and that has a negative impact on the science gpa. bummer.

 

[dcpark74]

How does the rest of your application look like? research, volunteer, etc.

I received: F->D->A (yes, took it 3Xs) in analytical chem (upper level)
C in physical chem
F->A in physical chem lab
(all from U of WI)
attained a 25 in the MCAT science sections

went to grad school though for two years. recently accepted to my state school.

It's your call but they may want to see concrete improvement in classes and not on MCAT sections (that's one of the big reasons I went to graduate school.)

Good luck 🙂

 

[ussdfiant]

I, like SP, have an uninformed opinion that I will share with you along with a bit of my own history. First, there is nothing that you can do about the grades that you have earned, so you need to work on damage control. My undergrad transcript is full of Fs, Ds, and a couple of Is. Most of these were in the pre-med reqs. I was so certain that nothing could help me that I basically cooled it for a decade (last science course in undergrad was in 1990), majored in History, lived life, started a career, family,etc. Fast foward to summer 2000. Temple's post bac advisor told me that the best damage control for me was to 1) put as much distance as I could between me and those Penn grades and 2) get an A in every class in the postbac program and get a respectible MCAT. Now, I am an MS2. The moral of my story is to control the damage.. I would not suggest that you wait a decade before applying, but I wouldn't apply with your transcript as is. My suggestion is that you get yourself into a rigorous postbac (the type where you are taking the classes with first year medical students, and that has a linkage to a medical school) and show adcoms that you are capable of handling the med school curriculum. There is a chance that you may get accepted this cycle, but there are gunners on this board with better GPAs and MCAT scores that have been waitlisted, if not flat out rejected. It's certainly your $$, but I personally think it could be better spent. Good luck!

 

[Zweihander]

On the note of applying, another thing that should be pointed out is that applying to schools and getting rejected may actually hurt your chances in the future.

I have seen a number of schools place a cap on how many times someone can apply; also it has been suggested to me that reapplicants can have a stigma - not in that they need to be better than other applicants, but that schools may scrutinize a reapplicant's file more closely to see if the reasons for a previous rejection have been addressed.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that there may be consequences to applying and not getting in that go beyond simply having a lighter bank account, and these bear investigation and consideration.

Another thing is that applying to med schools can be an awful, emotionally draining process, and all the waiting can really eat away at you. Don't subject yourself to this more than you have to. Also, the stronger your application is when you apply, the more options can potentially be open to you in terms of schools you can go to.

mmmmmm......
options......

Well, that's all of the nay-saying, and more for the sake of pointing out things to consider than saying you shouldn't apply. In the end, you gotta follow your own lead, really...


(btw - have you considered attending workshops held by med schools themselves that help candidates find out how to shore up their applications? Don't know too much, but SUNY Upstate, for one, has them...)


peece

 

[link26]

I have few extracurriculars. But I have spent a good amount of time with them.

I volunteered for 2 years at my local children's hospital.
For social purposes and to kill time/have fun, I was part of a christian fellowship for 2 years. Made quite a few friends there.

This was all before my grades turned sour, and I had to quit these activities.

I am currently retaking Genetics at another a Calstate university that is nowhere near Berkeley in prestige. I am also planning to devise my own post-bacc program at this Calstate university.
I know about those few post-bac programs where you take classes with first year med students. But those programs are expensive, with no guarantees, and I'm not willing to plop down THAT much cash. $35000 is a lot more than $3500.

The sad part is that I don't need to fix my premed req's. But it seems it will take a lifetime of work to counter those C's and D's from my last 2 years in college...... especially considering the way the AMCAS calculates the gpa.
I'm betting that with the way the AMCAS calculates the gpa, I won't even make it past the initial computerized screening, regardless of the extras I have.


I'm starting to wonder if I should email several medical school adcoms directly and tell them my situation........ Would that be a good idea? 😕

 

[ussdfiant]

I don't think that emailing a few medical school could hurt, I say go for it. The reason why I mentioned the post bac program is because (especially as a Cali resident if you want to stay in Cali) your application looks kinda bleak. Again, I am no expert and I expect that you want honesty, not coddling. You seem to have done really poorly in science classes that you will have in medical school (genetics, biochem, and cell bio) and you come from a science background, as opposed to me who has a degree in History. I think that adcoms are going to want to see that you can handle a full courseload of medical school caliber sciences before they take a chance on you. Talk with some schools and get the skinny from them, but I have a feeling something like Georgetown's or Barry's Masters in Biomedical Sciences is in your future. As far as the $$ goes, I really did not want to pay for an extra year of school (Temple postbac) with no additiional degree and no usable credits, but if I didn't I would not be in medical school now. I thought of it as penance for my undergraduate sins. Don't let the money dissuade you, it could mean the difference between an acceptance (you only need one) and a rejection. BTW, take everything I say with a grain of salt!

 

[Penguin Poptart]

Forgive me if this sounds harsh.. but
If you emailed the adcoms what would you be telling them? What is your "situation"? That you did badly in challenging classes for the last two years and it's mostly the fault of going to such a topnotch school, and the way the teachers grade the exams and the way that amcas calculates the GPA etc..., etc...


That you don't want to invest in fixing it? Or at least examining what the real problem is/was? That you don't want to waste any more time and money and just be in medical school already?


People here have given you really good advice. I think you need to sort of own your own "situation" and improve it and then you will have a really good shot at medical school.

 

[dcpark74]

Originally posted by link26
I'm starting to wonder if I should email several medical school adcoms directly and tell them my situation........ Would that be a good idea? 😕

I've talked to the dean of admissions at U. of WI med school and she was extremely helpful with a lot of my concerns about my academic record. (my case is different from yours but read on.)

At no point did she ask for my name. (just say you are an applicant.) she was very attentive to my questions and gave me very honest answers... no sugarcoating at all.

I've contacted two other programs (deans of admissions) about my situation and again my questions were well received.

So I would definitely call them in person or email if it's difficult to contact them.

Good luck!!!🙂

 

[ussdfiant]

To the OP:

I am at work and bored so I looked up some sites for you. I was once exactly where you are (and older) and never thought I would make it in. Take a look at some of the stats for these programs and remember that loans are available. When you're an MD (or DO, don't count out DOs. PCOM was my first choice and I think that I got rejected because they wanted me to do their post bac, too) you will make more than enough to pay off everything that you borrow. I'm sorry that I seem so insistant, but I am living proof that post bacs really work if you put 100% into them. I also think that it would be a shame to spend the next year applying to schools, get rejected and then decide to to a post bac. That could be a year that you are strengthening your app with a program designed to get you into med school. And as opposed to trying to do your own postbac, I suggest to maximize your chances you enroll in something structured with a linkage to a med school (Georgetown, Drexel, PCOM). Ok, I'm done preaching. 5 more days to gastric bypass goodness!

Georgetown
Drexel
PCOM

 

[ma-bas]

Hi Link,

Like you I got my as* kicked in at UC B in some of the science classes. The MCB department is evil, so unsupportive, and full of arrogance. My gpa stinks, but I'm applying this year.

I wasn't intending to go to med school when I was an undergrad, or else I probably would have partied less, studied more, smoked less, didn't have to work, etc.

I was a Nutri Sci major, had to take Chem 5, got a D, retook etc, etc. Didn't care. After I graduated, I applied to grad school to get a M.S. in Nutrition so I could get into a Dietetic Internship, which i wouldn't have gotten into with my UG grades alone. I scored really well on my GREs which is what got me into grad school. I got a 3.8 in grad school

After becoming a registered dietitian and working for a while, I realized I want to be a doctor. So I went back to school to complete physics and got all A's.

So here I am now, crap for grades in UG, 3.8 grad school gpa, 3 years experience in Primary Care 36R MCAT and hoping my MCAt's will balance out past performance.

I wish I had a happy ending already to share with you. But hopefully I will have good new a year from now. We will be able to see if my experiment works.

What am I trying to say? Well, I wanted to let you know, someone shares your anxiety, and if it works, maybe you can follow a similar path.

Don't worry about being behind your peers. I'm 28. Spend some more time and get some relevant experience. Distance yourself from your grades. Show that you have matured. And don't let people discourage you. They only do it b/c it would kill them to see someone like you or me get into med school after they worked so hard to get their 3.8 gpas, lived in LSB, and had no life.

 

[link26]

hey guys. I really appreciate the advice. Many of you obviously have gone through more than I have. And I don't mind the tough love, really 🙂 It's just what I need.
and ussdfiant, thanks for those links. they look enticing.