Difference between MD/PHD and PharmD/PHD?

[phar]

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Hi,
Do you guys know the difference between a MD/PHD and PharmD/PHD? After finishing either of the joint program, what is your "title" and what kind of jobs will you be doing? What are the pros and cons of either or both programs? Is there difference in salary wise?

thanks

 

[surge]

Well, before getting into the whole PhD component (which essentially means that you are trained in and oriented towards research), you have to understand that a PharmD (doctor of pharmacy) and an MD (doctor of medicine) are two very, very different degrees.

A medical doctor is a physician that treats patients in a variety of specialties, does clinical procedures and prescribes medication.

A PharmD is a pharmacist - and I apologize in advance for admitting my bias - which means that they essentially dispense medication. Many work in pharmacies (Walgreens, etc.) although some work in hospitals as well (again, in a hospital pharmacy). Contrary to what you will be told, they do not play a large role in patient care, although they are intended to assist physicians (MDs) with selection of drugs for treating the patient (it doesn't actually work like that in most cases). Contrary to what people sometimes think, PharmD's don't decide what medication one takes, nor do they develop new drugs (a scientist with a PhD in pharmacology would actually do this).

Personally, I've never heard of a PharmD/PhD combined degree, nor do I see its relevance. Presumably, one would be doing research on developing new drugs, but I don't see how a PharmD would be useful in addition to the PhD.

As far as MD/PhD's go, these tend to be physician scientists in academic medicine, who do a combination of basic or clinical research and treating patients. There's much more to it than that, so I invite you do read some threads on this board or look at the MD/PhD FAQ.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by surge
Personally, I've never heard of a PharmD/PhD combined degree, nor do I see its relevance. Presumably, one would be doing research on developing new drugs, but I don't see how a PharmD would be useful in addition to the PhD.

There are few PharmD/PhD programs in the US (VCU comes to mind) and a good friend of mine is considering doing a joint program at Chapel Hill (She's curently in the PharmD program now).

After having worked a few years in the pharmaceutical industry, I can tell you that a PharmD/PhD would be highly valued at almost any pharmaceutical company in the US. This is actually a great option for those who want clinical training without the prospect of residency, internship, ect. Also, once you finish the program you can go straight to industry w/o doing a post doc. You get the best of both worlds valuable clinical training with research training.

Without a doubt if I desired a career primarily in the pharmaceutical industry, the PharmD/PhD is the best way to go in my opinion. I also have to admit that I serioulsy considered this option (the PCAT is a breeze compared to the MCAT).

 

[phar]

Mr.Surge??
With all do respect, i think your knowledge of the pharmaceutical education is very limited.

PharmD:
-These are the drug experts and they will literally tell you all the mechanism, drug interactions with the human body and many more that a traditional 'doctor' has no clue.

-For example(very basic), patient X goes to Dr.surge...Dr.surge finds out the problem and looks into the medical index book(or may know by memory) to see what drugs fight the disease. However, Dr.Surge doesn't really the chemisty of the drugs nor does he/she know how they interact within body. The pharmacists tells what patient x is taking and how he/she should take it though few doctors tell the patient in advance.
-Yes, i do agree with you on the retail/hospital pharmacy discussion.

PharmD/PHD:
-If you never heard of this, you are unfamiliar with the academic world.
-Tons of pharmacy schools like medical schools offer such programs.
-MD/PHD is called a physician scientist where as Pharmd/Phd is a called a pharmceutical scientist.
-FYI, Pharmd/phd works in research, academics and many more.
-Go get more information about the dean of any pharmacy school and see what lies next to their name. Also, get more information about the excutives of those giant pharmceutical industries.
-Who gets paid more? I think the pharmceutical scientist. Why? who will pay you more a public/christian/teaching hospital or
pfizer. Absolutely, pfizer. Don't believe me? Visit their shareholder meeting.

-Why did i create this thread?
-I am interested in either of the program and wanted to get more info about either. And, why many of you here did not choose the pharmd/phd to be the scientist in similar aspect of academics.
-I did not mean to create any arguments.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by surge
Contrary to what you will be told, they do not play a large role in patient care, although they are intended to assist physicians (MDs) with selection of drugs for treating the patient (it doesn't actually work like that in most cases).

This is actually changing. When my best friend who's in the PharmD program at Chapel Hill did her hospital rotation she indicated that it is quite common to see a PharmD on a "team" deciding with doctors what meds to prescribe to patients.

 

[phar]

Yes, i agree with you pathdr2b. Though, i am currently deciding to choose which path to go to. Why did you choose the md/phd?


thanks

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by phar
Yes, i agree with you pathdr2b. Though, i am currently deciding to choose which path to go to. Why did you choose the md/phd?
thanks

Phar:

I want to be a pathologist so that leaves me with only 2 choices MD or DO. It was that simple however, a few years ago I was thinking I would get the PhD in Pharmacology and certainily would have done the PharmD as well.

 

[phar]

You see this is my problem.
-I want be a scientist but i don't like to perform surgery or touch blood.
-I know they are only few specialities within the medical field like radiology or psychiatrist.
-When they say(medicine) it takes 7yrs(or something like) to complete these program...does that mean residency is included?
-I also like the pharmaceutical scientist program because it takes lesser time to complete if the md/phd requires you to do a residency.

 

[surge]

Oh, well, I knew I'd get flamed.

Good luck in making your decision.

 

[pathdr2b]

Originally posted by phar
When they say(medicine) it takes 7yrs(or something like) to complete these program...does that mean residency is included?
I also like the pharmaceutical scientist program because it takes lesser time to complete if the md/phd requires you to do a residency.

You're right, you will normally have additional training to do after the MD/PhD should you go that route. I have heard of a few individuals that went to industry after only one year of postmedical school training but they weren't board eligible in any field.

It sounds like you may be better off doing the PharmD/PhD program but you won't save any time because it will also take about seven years to complete. You might also want to consider special programs like the one at Rutgers University which allows PharmD graduates to get their PhD's.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Both are excellent choices!

 

[Sara_J]

I'm actually enrolled in a joint PharmD/PhD program at UNC. (I'll be starting grad coursework in fall.) I agree somewhat Surge about a PharmD's role in patient care, but I will say that it's changing...I just don't want to be a part of it.

My goal was always to do research, and alot of pharmaceutical research is very clinically oriented, not just drug discovery. Check out the job requirements for senior clinical scientists at pharmaceutical companies...PharmD/PhD, or MD/PhD required.
You can also enter academia, government, etc. The key is the "PhD" in your title. For most purely research positions, which clinical degree you possess is not important. Now if you want to be a "clinician-scientist" as a PharmD, you better make sure you're near a pharmacy school and be prepared to be on faculty, as those are the most progressive areas to practice pharmacy. You won't have too much luck anywhere else.

There's alot more...just let me know what questions you have, phar.

 

[phar]

Hi,
Can you comment on the pros and cons of either program(md/phd or pharmd/phd). Also, why did you choose the pharmd/phd route.
Also, is it possible to do your pharmd or md first(some schools don't offer the combined degree) and then go for the phd component at a different school.

thanks.

 

[Adcadet]

my co-PI is a PharmD, and we currently have a newly minted PharmD working in our lab before he goes on to do a PhD. A few thoughts of mind:

- a PharmD can do research given the appropriate post-graduate training. My Co-PI (PharmD) knows more about the practical aspects of doing research than my PI (MD) since he's been doing lab work for a long long time.


-PharmD's around the county medical center I work at do go on the wards and do assist in decision making. As phar pointed out, a PharmD is the drug expert (not that an MD, DO, RN, or anybody else can't become an expert - it's just that the PharmD is designed for this). I know that in annother hospital near us, they have at least one PharmD on each ICU ward monitoring drug stuff. It's interesting to note that at my university, PharmD's get a lot more training in pharmacokinetics than MDs and pharmacology PhDs - this sets them up better to do some clinical work, as well as do certain kinds of research.

 

[phar]

what does 'PI' stand for...just curious

 

[Adcadet]

PI=Primary Investigator. Most (all?) grants require you to specify exactly who the "boss" is, and the person who's usually listed as the PI is sortof the "lab PI." The second in charge is usually listed as the "co-PI."

 

[Vader]

Originally posted by phar
what does 'PI' stand for...just curious

Principal Investigator.

 

[Naphtali]

Originally posted by Adcadet
PI=Primary Investigator.

Naw. Everybody knows that pi = 3.14159265358...
😀

But hey, everyone knows that the really sexy number is e.

-Naphtali

 

[Sara_J]

I can't tell you about the MD/PhD route...I never considered it. As far as doing a PharmD first, yes you can. You can do PhD work anywhere. The joint program may help you shave off a few years, or not depending on your research project. Each school is different. Some just let you begin graduate coursework during your professional years, and some actually delay the fourth year rotations to begin grad school. I prefer the first option, as I can take the coursework and decide not to finish the PhD after I graduate (although I wouldn't)...or I can go to another school. It's more flexible.

The research settings are varied. You can pretty much do whatever you want. I chose this path because the clinical aspect of pharmacy (i.e. caring for patients) just doesn't appeal to me. I want to do research, but clinically relevant research. I work in a basic science preclinical laboratory right now, and it's a little too far out of the healthcare loop for me.

Finally, I will say that you don't have to have a PhD to do research as a PharmD. Many people do it.

 

[tackett26]

I can't tell you about the MD/PhD route...I never considered it. As far as doing a PharmD first, yes you can. You can do PhD work anywhere. The joint program may help you shave off a few years, or not depending on your research project. Each school is different. Some just let you begin graduate coursework during your professional years, and some actually delay the fourth year rotations to begin grad school. I prefer the first option, as I can take the coursework and decide not to finish the PhD after I graduate (although I wouldn't)...or I can go to another school. It's more flexible.

The research settings are varied. You can pretty much do whatever you want. I chose this path because the clinical aspect of pharmacy (i.e. caring for patients) just doesn't appeal to me. I want to do research, but clinically relevant research. I work in a basic science preclinical laboratory right now, and it's a little too far out of the healthcare loop for me.

Finally, I will say that you don't have to have a PhD to do research as a PharmD. Many people do it.

Hey Sara,

I know this is an old post, but what information can you give me about the pharmd phd program you went to?