Dilemma of a frustrated high school senior...

[94474]

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[americanpierg]

I was rejected from all the Ivys I applied to, although I was waitlisted at Cornell. I was, however, accepted into the Lehigh/Drexel and RPI/AMC combined BA/MD programs. My dilemma is 1. between the two programs, and 2. between one of those programs and a few of my normal UGs (CMU, UCSD, JHU waitlist, Cornell waitlist).

Here's my somewhat abbreviated list of pros/cons (please keep in mind I will probably want to specialize in something or perhaps pursue a career in academic medicine. If my goal was simply to get any MD I can and open a private practice, I would have chosen the program instantly. Oh, and I'm 100% I want to become a doctor, just not sure what kind.):

Program:
Pros:
No stress, assured acceptance to med school, etc.

Cons:
No-name med school --> Harder to get a good residency
Lower quality UG, can't apply out to other med schools if I get a high GPA and MCAT score
At both UG and med school, won't be challeneged as much

CMU/UCSD:
Pros:
Better UG education
Possibility of top med school (much better chance of getting into UCSF/UCSD/UCLA med schools from UCSD)
High med-school admission percentage
Price (I'm a CA resident)

Cons:
Give up guaranteed spot in med school
Intense competition between pre-meds




If there's anything I missed, or if there is anything you'd like to add, please. Suggestions for number 1 and 2 would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks in advance.

One more question--should I wait for the Cornell or JHU?

take the ba/md program, ur cant just assume ur going to get into an ivy league med school from CMU/UCSD

 

[ChocolateKiss]

I was rejected from all the Ivys I applied to, although I was waitlisted at Cornell. I was, however, accepted into the Lehigh/Drexel and RPI/AMC combined BA/MD programs. My dilemma is 1. between the two programs, and 2. between one of those programs and a few of my normal UGs (CMU, UCSD, JHU waitlist, Cornell waitlist).

Here's my somewhat abbreviated list of pros/cons (please keep in mind I will probably want to specialize in something or perhaps pursue a career in academic medicine. If my goal was simply to get any MD I can and open a private practice, I would have chosen the program instantly. Oh, and I'm 100% I want to become a doctor, just not sure what kind.):

Program:
Pros:
No stress, assured acceptance to med school, etc.
o
Cons:
No-name med school --> Harder to get a good residency
Lower quality UG, can't apply out to other med schools if I get a high GPA and MCAT score
At both UG and med school, won't be challeneged as much

CMU/UCSD:
Pros:
Better UG education
Possibility of top med school (much better chance of getting into UCSF/UCSD/UCLA med schools from UCSD)
High med-school admission percentage
Price (I'm a CA resident)

Cons:
Give up guaranteed spot in med school
Intense competition between pre-meds




If there's anything I missed, or if there is anything you'd like to add, please. Suggestions for number 1 and 2 would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks in advance.

One more question--should I wait for the Cornell or JHU?

I would not go to the combined program. If you want to get into a competitive residency, it would be good to go to a more highly regarded school. I would probably plan on UCSD. If you are at the top of your class at UCSD and do some good research, you'll be able to compete with top applicants from Ivy League schools in the med school admissions process. However, if you think you'd be happy at Cornell and Hopkins and don't think waiting for the waitlist to work itself out is too stressful, go ahead and wait. I'd choose Cornell out of those three schools (SD, Cornell, and Hopkins), but that's just my own bias. If you're afraid of pre-med competition, SD might be the way to go because Cornell and Hopkins definitely have reps for being super competitive in the basic sciences. Good luck.

 

[Kazema]

It sounds to me like you'll never be happy choosing a program because you'll always wonder "What if?" You quite obviously believe (correctly or not) that you're better than Drexel or Albany Med.

From your post I get the feeling you'd actually enjoy being in a hyper-competitive pre-med environment. So yes, you should wait for Cornell or JHU. One word of warning (or...enticement, if "word of enticement" is a valid phrase), both Cornell and CMU (especially CMU) are notorious for grade deflation. A 3.5 at CMU is a pretty impressive accomplishment, and adcoms do take that into account. But even so a 3.2 (or whatever) is still a 3.2 - i.e. not a 3.5.

If you're up for a challenge, go to CMU or Cornell and get a 4.0 GPA in an engineering major. If you can do that, then you'll have earned the right to call Drexel and Albany Med no-name med schools that won't challenge your massive intellect.

 

[ChocolateKiss]

Try this link. Another poster had a similar dilemma.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=269829

 

[nutmegs]

If you're up for a challenge, go to CMU or Cornell and get a 4.0 GPA in an engineering major. If you can do that, then you'll have earned the right to call Drexel and Albany Med no-name med schools that won't challenge your massive intellect.

what a beautiful post. 👍

 

[SuperTrooper]

If I were you (100% sure you wanna do medicine), I would go with one of the combined programs. Average entrance MCAT this year was like 32 I heard, and it's just gonna get more competetive, especially when the economy starts to seriously tank in a few years. With the combined program I don't think you even have to take the MCAT, do you? Just chill, relax, and you'll be all rested for med school and do well, and get into that good residency you want. Going to a "top" medical school is over-rated; what's important is becoming a skilled clinician. Also, going through the application process is stressful and expensive. However, the application process can be a good learning experience, especially getting to check out schools and stuff you might do your residency at. And yeah, people I know who went to JHU and CMU have told me it's uber-competetive.

 

[lord_jeebus]

FYI, if you maintain your CA residency, there should not be a significant disadvantage for UC med school admissions if you go to to an out-of-state school.

EDIT: More thoughts. If you don't know what field you want to go into, I would be wary of these combined BA/MD programs.

1. I knew lots of premeds who were "100% sure" freshman year who changed their minds, not because they couldn't handle being premed, but because they didn't like the medical field once they got some substantial exposure to it. This might not apply to you.

2. If you go to Drexel or Albany and it turns out that you fall in love with dermatology, neurosurgery, opthalmology, plastics, radiology, radiation oncology, ENT, urology, or orthopedics, you will regret your decision. It's not impossible, but it will take way more effort and luck to make up for your school's lack of "elite reputation" than it would for you to do what it takes at UCSD/CMU/Cornell to get into a "Top 20 school."

People say med school admissions is unpredictable but I disagree somewhat. If you: Study hard, strive to understand your coursework (not just memorize), and take classes you really enjoy when possible, you will get good-enough grades and good-enough MCAT. If you find a project (research or something else entirely) you are really passionate about and dedicate yourself to it you will accomplish something and you will stand out. If you do that, apply to lots of schools, and come across as genuine during your interviews you will get into at least a few med schools with better records of matching students into competitive residencies.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

I would not go to the combined program. If you want to get into a competitive residency, it would be good to go to a more highly regarded school.

Hogwash. Sorry but there is little/no truth to this. Drexel matches plenty of people into competitive residencies.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Hogwash. Sorry but there is little/no truth to this. Drexel matches plenty of people into competitive residencies.

He didn't say that it was impossible. It's not. He did say (as did I) that reputation of a school helps.

Drexel's match list (2004, 2005): http://webcampus.med.drexel.edu/admissions/matchplacement.asp

Match lists are hard to interpret, but it's not bad. Obviously it is possible to do well coming out of Drexel if you do very well there. But compare it to something like Stanford's (http://deansnewsletter.stanford.edu/archive/03_20_06.html#2) where 80% got their first choice and explain to me how there is no difference.

I believe that it takes more effort overall to get into a particular competitive residency by going to a "lower tier" BA/MD program than it does to take the traditional path and shoot for a school that gives you more of an edge. Even if it doesn't work out perfectly, a guy who did well enough in HS to get into 2 BA/MD programs has the ability to get into med school via CMU or UCSD if he puts in the effort.

One more thing: If going to UCSD and then to med school would be substantially cheaper, that's another good reason. If you then managed to get into a UC med school (no guarantee of course) you would save a lot of money, which you would appreciate should you choose to enter a field with low compensation.

 

[Zoom-Zoom]

He didn't say that it was impossible. It's not. He did say (as did I) that reputation of a school helps.

Drexel's match list (2004, 2005): http://webcampus.med.drexel.edu/admissions/matchplacement.asp

Match lists are hard to interpret, but it's not bad. Obviously it is possible to do well coming out of Drexel if you do very well there. But compare it to something like Stanford's (http://deansnewsletter.stanford.edu/archive/03_20_06.html#2) where 80% got their first choice and explain to me how there is no difference.

I believe that it takes more effort overall to get into a particular competitive residency by going to a "lower tier" BA/MD program than it does to take the traditional path and shoot for a school that gives you more of an edge. Even if it doesn't work out perfectly, a guy who did well enough in HS to get into 2 BA/MD programs has the ability to get into med school via CMU or UCSD if he puts in the effort.

One more thing: If going to UCSD and then to med school would be substantially cheaper, that's another good reason. If you then managed to get into a UC med school (no guarantee of course) you would save a lot of money, which you would appreciate should you choose to enter a field with low compensation.

Ok, first of all...he didn't say reputation helps, he said, "If you want to get into a competitive residency, it would be good to go to a more highly regarded school." I had interpreted that as saying "you shouldn't go to Drexel if you want a competitive residency," but I see how one could also interpret it as "it helps."...whatever.

Sure it helps...but I will argue that it helps in determining where you do your residency more so than what type of residency you match in to. If you see enough match lists you'll notice that every school produces a certain number of dermatologists, neurosurgeons, rads, ortho, etc. After a while they all start to look the same...except for the hospitals and affiliated universities.

I would revise the statement to: "If you wan't to go into academic medicine, try to go to a top school." All I want to do is fix bones and stuff, I don't care If I do it at Harvard... so for me, my best shot at ortho is most likely at a school where I have less competition and more time to study for step 1.

 

[kingcer0x]

Go to the integrated BS/MD program (either one is good in my opinion) and save yourself alot of trouble in applying to med school and leaving that to chance. You will be able to enjoy your undergrad years and I feel you will be able to learn better with less stress of applying and mcats and such. If you are good enough for a competitive specialty, then you will be good enough regardless of where you go.

 

[Rafa]

I would revise the statement to: "If you wan't to go into academic medicine, try to go to a top school." All I want to do is fix bones and stuff, I don't care If I do it at Harvard... so for me, my best shot at ortho is most likely at a school where I have less competition and more time to study for step 1.

(Ignoring the academic debate, since neither you or I are planning on that)

So you're saying it doesn't matter which med school you attend, in terms of your chances of matching into particular specialties, but that med schools matter more in terms of influencing *where* your residency training occurs (presuming you match into your desired specialty)?

 

[silas2642]

I was rejected from all the Ivys I applied to, although I was waitlisted at Cornell. I was, however, accepted into the Lehigh/Drexel and RPI/AMC combined BA/MD programs. My dilemma is 1. between the two programs, and 2. between one of those programs and a few of my normal UGs (CMU, UCSD, JHU waitlist, Cornell waitlist).

Here's my somewhat abbreviated list of pros/cons (please keep in mind I will probably want to specialize in something or perhaps pursue a career in academic medicine. If my goal was simply to get any MD I can and open a private practice, I would have chosen the program instantly. Oh, and I'm 100% I want to become a doctor, just not sure what kind.):

Program:
Pros:
No stress, assured acceptance to med school, etc.

Cons:
No-name med school --> Harder to get a good residency
Lower quality UG, can't apply out to other med schools if I get a high GPA and MCAT score
At both UG and med school, won't be challeneged as much

CMU/UCSD:
Pros:
Better UG education
Possibility of top med school (much better chance of getting into UCSF/UCSD/UCLA med schools from UCSD)
High med-school admission percentage
Price (I'm a CA resident)

Cons:
Give up guaranteed spot in med school
Intense competition between pre-meds




If there's anything I missed, or if there is anything you'd like to add, please. Suggestions for number 1 and 2 would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks in advance.

One more question--should I wait for the Cornell or JHU?

I hate to be the one to point this out because I know that 18 year old high school seniors with your high degree of ambition are 100% SURE that they want to go into medicine, but I think that it would be fair of me to mention the fact that you may actually change your mind once you get into college. A ton of freshmen start out as pre-med, and the vast majority of them change their mind as they hit the weed out courses of med school prerequisites and find out what being a doctor actually entails. You've done well in high school, that's great and I'm sure you're very intelligent. But a lot of people who excelled in high school hit college and find themselves struggling. I guess my point here is that when you're choosing undergraduate institutions don't put too much emphasis on prestige; go somewhere where you know you will do well. Cornell and JHU are notoriously competitive in the pre-med field, and being surrounded by extremely bright and ambitious students may make the competition pretty stiff. Also, unless your parents are loaded, I would put money in as a major factor when deciding what institute to attend next fall. Med school is incredibly expensive, the application process is by no means cheap, and going into your first year with $80k of debt is not necessarily the coolest idea.

The other thing about the combined BA/MD program is that you may decide that you don't want to attend these medical schools-- they may just not be a good fit for you. Besides changing your mind about medicine, you may decide that you don't really want to live in Pennsylvania or wherever for 6 years of your life, etc.

The decision is yours, though. I'm just giving advice that's all in hindsight. If medicine is really for you, then as you gain your clinical experience, you'll find that it really turns you on. But remember that you are still just a baby, so maybe it would be best to keep all your options open.

 

[Law2Doc]

I hate to be the one to point this out because I know that 18 year old high school seniors with your high degree of ambition are 100% SURE that they want to go into medicine, but I think that it would be fair of me to mention the fact that you may actually change your mind once you get into college. A ton of freshmen start out as pre-med, and the vast majority of them change their mind as they hit the weed out courses of med school prerequisites and find out what being a doctor actually entails.

Agree with this. College is probably one of the best times to FIGURE OUT what you want to do with your life. In high school you haven't had the exposure to different people, ideas, careers, to make any sort of reasonably informed decision about what you want to do with your life. Combine that with the fact that for many, some of the worst decisions in life tend to be made when you are a teenager, and you create a recipe for disaster. Go to college to broaden your horizons. Take the prereqs while there. If you still want to go to med school and have done well, that door should be open to you. If not, at least you are on a better track for other things.

 

[homeostatician]

Agree with this. College is probably one of the best times to FIGURE OUT what you want to do with your life. In high school you haven't had the exposure to different people, ideas, careers, to make any sort of reasonably informed decision about what you want to do with your life. Combine that with the fact that for many, some of the worst decisions in life tend to be made when you are a teenager, and you create a recipe for disaster. Go to college to broaden your horizons.

I'm with the last two posters. I'd hate for you to skip the entire undergrad experience, especially if you can go to JHU, Cornell, or even UCSD. If medicine is what you really want, you'll work hard to get the grades and MCAT score you need. In addition, you would have had the opportunity to attend a top rate university. You'll have the opportunity to make connections with other top students and professors, have more research opportunities and choices.
Most importantly, it gives you the time and experiences you need to make a decision like whether you want to attend medical school. Believe me, I was not the same person senior year of highschool as I am now. So enjoy undergrad at a good institution. Med school will come if it's meant to be.

Also, I interviewed at Albany Medical College. While it seemed like a decent enough program, I was not impressed. The students didn't seem too excited about going there. It was definitely not the first choice school for most of the students. I quote my student host as saying, "We're just glad we got into some F*ing medical school". I don't know if you want to go school where students feel this way.

 

[94474]

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[sit down lucy]

My dilemma lies in the fact that I might want to go into academic medicine...

Another factor in favor of the regular undergrad programs is that you would then have more time to explore different areas of research before you get to medical school. Since you're not sure of what type of doctor you want to be, maybe extra exploration into the research end of things might help you decide. WIth four years of undergrad, you'd certainly have time to try more than one lab or type of research (like clinical vs bench) - if you do the 6-year program you might not get that chance.

 

[beanbean]

If you are smart and hard-working, which you seem to be, you will get into med school regardless of which path you choose.

What school do you like the most? Where do you think you would enjoy living for the next four years? What undergrad programs and research programs at the various schools interest you the most?

Being successful in undergrad is much easy if you are happy. Pick a college based on where you think you will be happiest. Don't just keep gunning for the "most competitive" or "top" programs. And for goodness sakes, don't base your decision on where you will be likely to get a "top residency" ....that is 8 yrs away!

Congratulations on getting into some great schools.

 

[huknows00]

I would go to USCD and get a degree in BME and do lots of research. UCSD is like a BME/neuro heaven and has tons and tons of prestigious researchers. You're into academic medicine then go this route and you'll be in the "circle". Just being in a big research atmosphere definitely influences you in certain ways: more motivation, confidence to reach higher, and mentorship that can open doors. Just work your ass off at the same time and hope to get into one of the UC or another top med school after graduation. To me, if you're interested in a competitive career in academic medicine, this is a no brainer.Good luck! 👍

 

[QofQuimica]

OP, one thing that you haven't mentioned is the costs of the various schools for you. Assuming that your parents are not independently wealthy, you are looking at a lot of years of school, and most of these places are private and not going to be cheap. Did you get offered any scholarships at any of these places?

I tend to agree with the posters who suggest that you not do the combined programs. Like they said, it has nothing to do with the reputation of the programs, and everything to do with the fact that you are 18 years old, and liable to change your mind. Also, your late teens/early twenties are an important time for you to figure out who you really are. You should certainly work hard and study hard in college, but you should also play hard and participate in activities outside of school that you enjoy. Get involved in some student or community organizations, volunteer, shadow doctors, and keep an open mind. If you still want medical school four years from now, it will be there waiting for you.

 

[1SwtWrld]

I understand that it is possible to get a good residency wherever I go, but wouldn't it be easier from a better known medical school? Drexel and AMC aren't even ranked... and when I interviewed at AMC they admitted that students went to "below average residencies."

What is your definition of a "good residency"? if you want to go to Hopkins, or HMS or some of the other top name residencies; then yes a top name school will definitely be a huge advantage. However if you just want to get into a competitive field Derm/ENT/OPTH/ORTH/RADS etc. you will have no problem from any of the US allopathic schools as long as you get good grades and test scores.

Someone with bad or average grades and test scores from a top school will have a hard time matching into the competitive fields.

 

[rc4ch]

I was rejected from all the Ivys I applied to, although I was waitlisted at Cornell. I was, however, accepted into the Lehigh/Drexel and RPI/AMC combined BA/MD programs. My dilemma is 1. between the two programs, and 2. between one of those programs and a few of my normal UGs (CMU, UCSD, JHU waitlist, Cornell waitlist).

Here's my somewhat abbreviated list of pros/cons (please keep in mind I will probably want to specialize in something or perhaps pursue a career in academic medicine. If my goal was simply to get any MD I can and open a private practice, I would have chosen the program instantly. Oh, and I'm 100% I want to become a doctor, just not sure what kind.):

Program:
Pros:
No stress, assured acceptance to med school, etc.

Cons:
No-name med school --> Harder to get a good residency
Lower quality UG, can't apply out to other med schools if I get a high GPA and MCAT score
At both UG and med school, won't be challeneged as much

CMU/UCSD:
Pros:
Better UG education
Possibility of top med school (much better chance of getting into UCSF/UCSD/UCLA med schools from UCSD)
High med-school admission percentage
Price (I'm a CA resident)

Cons:
Give up guaranteed spot in med school
Intense competition between pre-meds




If there's anything I missed, or if there is anything you'd like to add, please. Suggestions for number 1 and 2 would be greatly appreciated as well. Thanks in advance.

One more question--should I wait for the Cornell or JHU?

Just curious what kind of stats do you have? GPA and SAT?

 

[badlydrawnvik]

OP: As I've posted previously, I was in the Lehigh/Drexel program but opted out after MCATs to apply to other medical schools. In fact out of the 6 kids in the program my year, two dropped out of it because they could not hold their own, two are staying at Drexel (both are brilliant, one got a 37 on his MCATs but did not feel like applying out, which he regrets now) and two of us applied out (I am going to Columbia next year, and my friend is going to Penn). And, the four of us that stuck with medicine for now are all still graduating in three years. My advice is that Lehigh is a pretty cool school but I could only handle being here for three years. You definitely have the chance to apply out if you want, and the environment isn't that competitive. In retrospect, I wish I had gone to my first choice undergrad (Northwestern) instead of Lehigh but it also worked out because I saved a lot of money in scholarship and a full year of tuition. If you visit Lehigh and think you like it, do the program, because it is a safe bet. That is why I did it. When I interviewed at Drexel I had the feeling that it was not the right place for me, so I worked a little more during college. I didn't expect the high MCAT score, but when I got it I was ecstatic that I could apply to other schools. So if you were accepted to BA/MD programs it is highly likely that you will succeed anywhere. If you want the guarantee of acceptance just in case, take one of the programs. I learned from experience because my sister had a very hard time getting into medical school many years ago, so I did not want to have to deal with that possible stress if I bombed the MCAT or some of my classes. Good luck with your decision.

 

[sen]

One more question--should I wait for the Cornell or JHU?

No you should not expect to get into Cornell or JHU off of the waitlist, b/c there can be very little waitlist movement for some ugrad institutions. Where I went to school, I think only 20 students were admitted off of the waitlist in a class of ~2000, may be it was a little higher, but it was very low. I was also on the undergrad JHU waitlist and I remember only a very small number of people got in.

If you do want to go, then do what people talk about doing for med school wait lists on here...send additional recs, write letters of interest/intent etc.

Good luck w/your decision.

 

[skypilot]

If you are smart and hard-working, which you seem to be, you will get into med school regardless of which path you choose.

What school do you like the most? Where do you think you would enjoy living for the next four years? What undergrad programs and research programs at the various schools interest you the most?

This is the most important point. If you feel you are a high achiever, you should skip the combined programs and just go to the undergrad where you will be able to excel. Don't worry about med school. You will have no problems getting in if you continue to rock.

 

[SuperTrooper]

This is the most important point. If you feel you are a high achiever, you should skip the combined programs and just go to the undergrad where you will be able to excel. Don't worry about med school. You will have no problems getting in if you continue to rock.

Being a high achiever in high school doesn't mean you're gonna be a high achiever in college; everybody knows people who got the #1 college scholarship at their school, and then that person got all Ds. Anyhow, I remember there was a similar thread about combined degree programs last year. And this one guy related this story about his cousin who debated Yale Vs. a combined degree at St. Louis or something. Story continued with her choosing Yale, she royally screwed up, and now she's a lab tech in some forensic lab in NYC (having been rejected from med school, her dream). Yeah, this is just an anecdote, but it's important to keep in mind that things don't always go as smoothly as you expect them to. **** happens. The OPs got a pretty special choice here, and the answer isn't black and white.

 

[SeventhSon]

I'm a ucsd undergrad who got into a top 10 school and got waitlisted by 6 other top 10s. So yeah, it is definitely possible to get into the top programs out of UCSD.

there are some things i would say as positives for ucsd:

1) it's not going to be quite as competitive as a JHU for example. The curves aren't insane, and you have a little bit of breathing room to get A's, if you are on top of your stuff. It's not a cake walk by any means, but you could get a flat A in an o-chem class with like an 80% in some cases.

2) the bench research is much better than it usually gets respect for, even outside of bme/neuro

3) i've been told that Revelle college @ucsd puts a higher % of med school applicants into med school than any public institution in the country. Don't know whether this is by self-selection or actually by better prep but if you got into revelle that might be a consideration.

bad parts:

1) i was utterly disappointed by the faculty support. in any public institution you're inevitably going to have a terrible faculty to student ratio, general classes with over 300, and it was really hard to get the outside help you needed sometimes. faculty also were generally terrible teachers, but i also was an engineering major

2) we call UCSD - UC socially dead. If you're the type that needs to party on fri-sat nights, ucsd is not for you.

overall, i would recommend it if money is at all an issue. i got a scholarship here and am graduating with a $0 debt, so i got what i needed out of the place.

final caveat: i truly worked my behind off

 

[94474]

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[Kitra101]

To the OP - warning...this following is an ego deflation:

You are a high school senior. You have not had a college experience yet. You have no idea what being a premed is like, you have not taken the MCAT, you have not taken the pre-reqs. Before you begin spouting off terms like "no name medical schools" perhaps you should stop and think about what you are saying. You are new to the game and that is alright, but for the people who got into, go to or graduated from Drexel or Albany, they have worked their asses off and have had to work much harder than you have. I dont even know you, but I can say that with some certainty. I hope that you learn something from this post because in life, when you are coming into a situation that you do not know that much about, talking down to people that have been there already is not the best approach. Tact and people skills may be something that you would like to work on in the future.

That said, take the advice from posters here, from doing intensive research on your own, from family, from current physicians and then when you have all the facts, make your decision. There are other factors in life that should be considered when making a decision besides your ego.

 

[94474]

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[Law2Doc]

If the name of a school really didn't matter later in life, I wouldn't care either--however, especially for medicine (from what I've heard), the name does matter. Again, this is just a lowly high schooler speculating so pleas correct me if I'm wrong.

Everything matters, but the bottom line is that your own hard work and successes over the long haul are going to matter far more than school name. All things being equal, names matter, but it hardly happens that all things are equal. If you get A's and a high MCAT score, and hit all the other important parts of an application, you probably will do well in terms of getting into med school. Would you do better coming from Cornell than someplace else? Maybe. A lot depends on you, your stats, your interview skills, etc. Then once in med school, your residency is going to depend far more on things like board scores than where you are coming from. The top stat students with good recs, from the bottom ranked allo school still match quite well. At that juncture you would probably trade a big name med school for crazy high board scores any day.
In my opinion, you want to leave the most doors open to you, be it medicine or even some totally different field. You know squat at your current age. That's fine -- We all knew squat at that age. Good luck.

 

[ShyRem]

I would absolutely opt for not doing the combined degree. By going for a strictly BS/BA degree, you allow yourself some extra flexibility to discover hidden interests, talents, and exploration of yourself. If you decide to take some time off and travel or do other things between your BS/BA and going to MD school (if you indeed decide to do that), you have that option.

 

[Will Ferrell]

I think you should follow badlydrawn's path.

1. You have a seat there for you at drexel.

2. Lehigh is a fine university. I think USNews puts it in the top 30. Also, the social scene there is supposedly great.

3. After you get your MCAT score back, you're free to opt out.

 

[SuperTrooper]

I would absolutely opt for not doing the combined degree. By going for a strictly BS/BA degree, you allow yourself some extra flexibility to discover hidden interests, talents, and exploration of yourself. If you decide to take some time off and travel or do other things between your BS/BA and going to MD school (if you indeed decide to do that), you have that option.

I disagree. I think you'll have more opportunity for exploration of yourself if you do the combined. I was determined to go into medicine at the end of high school, and was extremely determined during my first 2 years of college. Because of this, I wasted a lot of time studying for the MCAT, doing research that I wasn't particularly interested in (but everyone says you gotta have research!!!), my choice of volunteer efforts was altered by what I though med schools wanted, my choice of courses was altered by what I thought med schools wanted. Overall, I found many of my activites (esp.volunteering) rewarding, and learned a lot of things doing other activities. But I think I would've had a broader experience in my activites had I not been focused on the "application." You can criticize me and my choices if you want (yes, in retrospect I should've done the things I wanted to do). But what the hell did I know? Everybody was telling me I had to do this and that to get into medical school. The pre-med hoopla is a powerful force.

 

[Law2Doc]

I disagree. I think you'll have more opportunity for exploration of yourself if you do the combined. I was determined to go into medicine at the end of high school, and was extremely determined during my first 2 years of college. Because of this, I wasted a lot of time studying for the MCAT, doing research that I wasn't particularly interested in (but everyone says you gotta have research!!!), my choice of volunteer efforts was altered by what I though med schools wanted, my choice of courses was altered by what I thought med schools wanted. Overall, I found many of my activites (esp.volunteering) rewarding, and learned a lot of things doing other activities. But I think I would've had a broader experience in my activites had I not been focused on the "application." You can criticize me and my choices if you want (yes, in retrospect I should've done the things I wanted to do). But what the hell did I know? Everybody was telling me I had to do this and that to get into medical school. The pre-med hoopla is a powerful force.

Maybe. But once you are on one of these combined tracks what chance do you really think there is for someone to realize that med school is not for them? You are not only showing up premed, you are already on a delineated path. I think your mindset for exploring other career options is pretty much closed down once you accept one of those programs. You already have everything set in stone, and thereafter go through the motions of the path with least resistance. Better to go to college, not focused solely on medicine, but with the expectation of taking the prereqs along the way, and really explore your options. I would not have suggested the path you describe above either - i.e. doing things you are not interested in in hopes the adcoms would want this. That is really just a different way of missing the opportunity of college. there are other roads than just those two.

 

[badlydrawnvik]

I think you should follow badlydrawn's path.

1. You have a seat there for you at drexel.

2. Lehigh is a fine university. I think USNews puts it in the top 30. Also, the social scene there is supposedly great.

3. After you get your MCAT score back, you're free to opt out.

agree on the social scene, especially because I turned 21 last night and finally got to explore the bars. 😀

 

[SuperTrooper]

Maybe. But once you are on one of these combined tracks what chance do you really think there is for someone to realize that med school is not for them? You are not only showing up premed, you are already on a delineated path. I think your mindset for exploring other career options is pretty much closed down once you accept one of those programs. You already have everything set in stone, and thereafter go through the motions of the path with least resistance. Better to go to college, not focused solely on medicine, but with the expectation of taking the prereqs along the way, and really explore your options. I would not have suggested the path you describe above either - i.e. doing things you are not interested in in hopes the adcoms would want this. That is really just a different way of missing the opportunity of college. there are other roads than just those two.

Hmm.. yes. In the situation I outlined, it would take a strong personality to make the realization/accept that medicine isn't for them, and call the program quits. But ultimately I think the combined program is a great idea if you go into it with your eyes wide open.

 

[Charles Murphy]

I have the EXACT same dilemma, vkkim. I am a high schooler who was accepted into two med school programs:

University of Rochester BA/MD
Wayne State University BA/MD

Sorry to hijack this thread, but would you guys still offer the same advice to me considering that my other choice is the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor? Is U-M a hard school to get good grades as a premed? Is it too insane? Thanks for any help for a *lowly* high school senior.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I would not go to the combined program. If you want to get into a competitive residency, it would be good to go to a more highly regarded school. I would probably plan on UCSD. If you are at the top of your class at UCSD and do some good research, you'll be able to compete with top applicants from Ivy League schools in the med school admissions process. However, if you think you'd be happy at Cornell and Hopkins and don't think waiting for the waitlist to work itself out is too stressful, go ahead and wait. I'd choose Cornell out of those three schools (SD, Cornell, and Hopkins), but that's just my own bias. If you're afraid of pre-med competition, SD might be the way to go because Cornell and Hopkins definitely have reps for being super competitive in the basic sciences. Good luck.

I am SO sick and tired of hearing this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!All med schools match into great residencies. 😡

 

[USArmyDoc]

To the OP - warning...this following is an ego deflation:

You are a high school senior. You have not had a college experience yet. You have no idea what being a premed is like, you have not taken the MCAT, you have not taken the pre-reqs. Before you begin spouting off terms like "no name medical schools" perhaps you should stop and think about what you are saying. You are new to the game and that is alright, but for the people who got into, go to or graduated from Drexel or Albany, they have worked their asses off and have had to work much harder than you have. I dont even know you, but I can say that with some certainty. I hope that you learn something from this post because in life, when you are coming into a situation that you do not know that much about, talking down to people that have been there already is not the best approach. Tact and people skills may be something that you would like to work on in the future.
That said, take the advice from posters here, from doing intensive research on your own, from family, from current physicians and then when you have all the facts, make your decision. There are other factors in life that should be considered when making a decision besides your ego.

AWESOME POST!!!!! 👍 About time some SDNer's put some of these kids in line!!

 

[Heimerfink]

To the OP - warning...this following is an ego deflation:

You are a high school senior. You have not had a college experience yet. You have no idea what being a premed is like, you have not taken the MCAT, you have not taken the pre-reqs. Before you begin spouting off terms like "no name medical schools" perhaps you should stop and think about what you are saying. You are new to the game and that is alright, but for the people who got into, go to or graduated from Drexel or Albany, they have worked their asses off and have had to work much harder than you have. I dont even know you, but I can say that with some certainty. I hope that you learn something from this post because in life, when you are coming into a situation that you do not know that much about, talking down to people that have been there already is not the best approach. Tact and people skills may be something that you would like to work on in the future.

That said, take the advice from posters here, from doing intensive research on your own, from family, from current physicians and then when you have all the facts, make your decision. There are other factors in life that should be considered when making a decision besides your ego.

I agree with this post. Just after I took the MCAT and got a great score, I started thinking that I could write my own ticket to most med schools. I got a big ego. Now I'm going to be happy going to my state school, if they let me in. I knew I was a smart kid in high school. Guess what. All the kids in med school are smart kids, and you've never had this kind of competition. I mean, when I look at the premeds at my school, I do better than most at MCAT/GPA. Then I go to interviews and they kids start spouting off how they have PhD's, 4.0, and 43's. That's when reality sets in, and anyone should be happy in any medical school. It's easy to say something's easy when you're two steps away from it. It's harder when it's you being denied and you can't figure out why. Don't take for granted you'll write your own ticket because you're smart. So is everyone else, and they work harder.

 

[Law2Doc]

I knew I was a smart kid in high school. Guess what. All the kids in med school are smart kids, and you've never had this kind of competition.

Good that you realize this now. Many people only start to realize this when they don't break the average on the first med school exam. That's true at every allo med school.

 

[Risa]

My 2 cents:

No one yet has really mentioned anything regarding, med school track completely aside, which of these schools you'll be happiest at. Location, class size, school personality, political climate, social scene, etc etc etc are all factors to consider in choosing an undergrad. Where will you have fun? Feel happiest? Have access to the things that interest you?

I went to a small liberal arts college, because when I visited here, I just fell in love with it. I couldn't have asked for a more wonderful place to spend four years of my life: working, playing, learning inside the classroom and out, doing some growing up. The college experience is such an incredible opportunity; I would be cautious about choosing what kind you'll have based on your med school goals.

If you want med school badly enough, you'll make it happen. For now, I suggest not making it the deciding factor in where you go to college.

Best of luck with your choice!

 

[Medikit]

Before you begin spouting off terms like "no name medical schools" perhaps you should stop and think about what you are saying.

I don't know, I found the use of "no name medical school" to be pretty damn amusing, especially since he applied to their programs in the first place. It's certainly a classy way to introduce yourself to a forum as well.

 

[NothingClever]

I just created an account to post on this thread...

I think the intentions of the OP were misinterpreted. I don't think that he posted to appease his ego, but just to get some candid advice from people he thinks are more knowledgeable than him. I don't think we should insult him for having a lack of information; he posted in the first place to gain that information.

In response to your question, I would definitely try to wait around for the Cornell waitlist acceptance. I am a Cornell undergrad, and believe me when I tell you, the name goes a long way. In every interview I attended, there was at least 1 other Cornell student there also. I live in a house with 4 pre-med students, and we all got into multiple top 20 schools.

As other posters have mentioned, maybe you will change your mind about going into medicine. But even if you do, Cornell has great programs in any field you can imagine. Recruitment into jobs or professional schools is excellent also. So if you do change your mind, you have something to fall back on.

I'm not saying that a title is everything, and I am not trying to sound pretentious, but I really feel that a 3.5 GPA or greater from Cornell can bring you very far in life. I think it would be worthwhile to wait around for the waitlist acceptance rather than to just take the safe bet.

Also, a misconception I noticed about what other posters have been saying about the Cornell pre-med students. The reason why I chose Cornell is because of the large number of down-to-earth, sociable, and interesting students that attend the school. I have a lot of pre-med friends, and a good deal of us are not the competitive gunners that you would think. School does not consume our lives and we help each other out a lot in our course work.

I hope this helps. If medicine is what you want to do, go for it... your SAT and SAT II scores alone tell me that you have the intelligence to do far better than me on the MCATs. Just remember that many interviewers look for an applicant who has a good deal of humility.

 

[94474]

.

 

[SeventhSon]

I was accepted into Muir, not sure exactly what that means. Also, what do you mean by "I truly worked my behind off"? Since you did mention it was less competitive, does that mean you worked yourself to near-death or just hard?

And one more thing: I was accepted into winter term. How would that affect me?

1) being accepted to winter term will affect you in no way whatsoever (doubt it would be looked down upon) except you might not be able to finish in 4, but that's not important, and if you take summer school you should be able to.

2) depending on who you ask, the sub-college at UCSD doesn't matter, but Revelle has the reputation of being the pre-med college because it people applying to medical school out of revelle are statistically more likely to be accepted. Wheter or not that is by self-selection or preparation, is unknown

3) i'm sure it's less competitive than JHU or Cornell, for sure. I worked my behind off in that, i have a 3.9 in engineering and ~15 A+'s which comes with a price tag in terms of time. However, there were some instances in which I didn't think I performed well on the final but got an A anyway due to a nice curve. It is much more likely at a Hopkins for example that you can't rely on the curve as much to save your grade, you just have to perform nearly flawlessly on every test.

 

[Kazema]

I have the EXACT same dilemma, vkkim. I am a high schooler who was accepted into two med school programs:

University of Rochester BA/MD
Wayne State University BA/MD

Sorry to hijack this thread, but would you guys still offer the same advice to me considering that my other choice is the University of Michigan-Ann Arbor? Is U-M a hard school to get good grades as a premed? Is it too insane? Thanks for any help for a *lowly* high school senior.

If I'm not mistaken the U of R program is non-binding and you can apply outside the program if you wish. It's also an 8 year program (4 undergrad and 4 med, correct me if I'm wrong) so you have plenty of time to explore other interests.

That sounds like an ideal situation to me as far as combined programs go.

 

[psipsina]

To the op:

It sounds like you are very ambitious and confident, both of which are great qualities to have as a pre-med. I think that some of the negative responses you have recieved comes from the fact that though you have the potential to make it thru this process, you haven't even taken the first step on the pathway, and yet your post had a negative tone towards certain medical schools that others on this board are proud to have gained an acceptance to. When you join the ranks of the pre-meds, you will be surprised to see that your drive and intelligence are not rare qualities (as they may seem in the high school atmosphere), and it may turn out that you too will be overjoyed just to get in to a US Allopathic program at all. Until you have gone thru the crazy weed out process it seems a bit pretentious to look down on any program at all. Almost everyone figures out how really unspectacular they are in their freshman year at college, when you go from being the smartest kid in your class to one of many smartest kids, . . . a large proportion of your college classmates will be just as smart and talented as you are, and some will be even smarter. And then we figure this out all over again as we apply to med school, having been the ones to come out on top of the curves in college and having rocked the MCAT, you will realize again how unspectacular you are when you interview with kids who make your acomplishments seem run of the mill. I am not in any way trying to put you down or discourage you, I am just trying to explain why your post elicited some negative responses.

My advise to you is to go to a normal four year program, go in with all your drive and determination to be the overachieving pre-med, but take a few classes that are outside the pre-med realm that catch your eye along the way, and stay open to the idea that you might decide not to be a pre-med. If you follow thru and work your tush off as you seem willing to do, you should be able to get scores etc that would let you get into a med school that is at least as competitive as the programs you are now accepted, and three or four years from now you will now alot more about yourself, like what type of curriculum, class size, location, grading scheme etc are best for you, and you'll also know more about what specialty you are most interested in so you can look for med schools that have well known departments in that specialty etc. I think a little uncertainty is worth picking a program that is really right for you, and making absolutely sure that medicine itself is right for you. Alot more goes into the decision than the school's ranking or prestige. Wait a few years, gain some life experience and some insight into what you want to do, and you will be in a better position to choose a school that you will truly be happy at.