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Disadvantage to be an Asian ?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Matrix, Jul 9, 2000.

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  1. Matrix

    Matrix Member
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    Hello Everyone!
    Recently, one of my friends told me that it would be harder for me to get into Med school because I'm an Asian. He told me that I would need to get at least a 33 on my MCAT (usually 30 is a good score right?) and a very high GPA + SGPA to be accepted. Is this true??
    Also in one of the posts on 7/4/00, there was a reply stating that if you only have permanent residency and no US citizenship, you will also need to have a very competitive status to be accepted.
    Does this mean if you're an Asian with only a green card, you will have an ultra hard time getting accepted?
     
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  3. WingZero

    WingZero Senior Member
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    Well, I'm Asian, and at the time of my application, I was only a permanent resident and I don't think it hurt me at all. Most schools treat citizens and permanent residents equally. If you only have a visa, then it may be more difficult to get in.

    As for the being Asian part, there may be some truth in what you say - perhaps because Asians are overrepresented in medical school.
     
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  4. Methuselah

    Methuselah Senior Member
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    Hey, Matrix.
    In a book I read a while ago "Getting into Medical School" by Sanford Brown, the author presents data for the GPA and MCAT scores of recent medschool matriculants. Sorry, I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I as I recall, Asian matriculants had the highest GPA and MCATs, followed by Caucasians, Af. Americans and Latinos. If the data were correct, it does appear that the bar has been set a bit higher for Asian folks. Also, although the MSAR describes many schools' positions on foreign applicants, I have not seen anything specific to applicants with permanent resident status.
     
  5. Arti

    Arti Member
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    My remark maybe be considered somewhat racist or at best not PC, but a big part of why Asian Americans have been denied admission to medical schools is because a good proportion of these students tend to have little life experience, having been guarded by their parents and more or less following the formula of what a premed should do and how he or she should act. It is very unfair that only 1 in 3 or 4 Asian Americans are offered admission compared to 1 in 2 for most every body else. Yet much of this has to do with immaturity and lack of taking action in life. Getting into med school is not just about the grades and ribbons. You need to show that an adult is applying, not an overachiever. My friend, lets call him Dave, is from Korea and he had no problems getting into any med school he applied with not so good grades or MCATs, but he is a guy who took action in life and took chances and took risks, and consequently he is grown up man who demonstrated his maturity in his essay and his interviews. My other friend, lets call him Jim, graduated from Stanford, 3.9 GPA, 42 MCATs never did anything but chemistry lab research and last I heard he had no interview offers.

    I know this sounded no very PC but I hope it
    gives some advice on what you need to medical school.
     
  6. WingZero

    WingZero Senior Member
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    Artur, I disagree with your statement that "a good proportion" of Asian applicants are all numbers and no substance. True, traditional (perhaps stereotypical?) Asian culture pushes for high grades, scores, etc. while placing a secondary focus on the more "intangible" qualties. However, I believe this notion is a bit outdated. While this may have been more true a while ago with first and second generation Asian families, it doesn't hold true today where Asian families that have been in the U.S. for longer periods of time have adopted more Western culture and ideals. I don't know why you gave the example of "Dave" and "Jim" if you wanted to show how most Asians are as you described since both "Dave" and "Jim" are Asian. Regardless of race, a person with no "life experience" will have difficulty getting into medical school.

    When I was interviewing for medical school, the Asians I met (there were a few Asians at every interview) had just as much "life experience" as anyone else. If what you say is true, and most Asians have a hard time getting into medical school, can you explain to me why many medical schools have a ~15-20% Asian population in their student body whereas Asians only make up 4% of the general population? There's no way that a group of so-called "cookie cutter" premeds could have become an ORM (over-represented minority) if what you say has merit. As stated in my previous post, I believe this is why Asians find it harder to get into medical school - simply because there are so many of us applying and by nature, medical schools compare similar applicants with similar backgrounds. The fact that Asians are overrepresented in medical school, I feel, attests, in some degree, to the strength of a good number of Asian applicants.

    When you say "I hope it gives some advice on what you need to (get into) medical school", I take it you are saying that one needs things other than grades and scores to be sucessful, something that holds true for all applicants, not just Asians. Your equating the necessity for "life experience" with your antiquated perceptions of Asians' lack thereof is, as you said, ignorant at best, racist at worst.

    [This message has been edited by WingZero (edited 07-13-2000).]
     
  7. youngjock

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    it goes back to my big conspriacy theory again.

    There is just no reason why many qualified applicants are kept out simply beause there is not enough spots for everyone.

    open up a few more schools, and doctors can go unemployed, too!
     
  8. Test Boy

    Test Boy Senior Member
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    The total MCAT scores are comparable for admitted Asians and whites. Asians may have slightly higher scores but the difference is statistically insignificant.
     
  9. ChrisSteffen

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    The simple truth: All "protected classes" i.e. minorities (excluding women) have a better chance than white males.
     
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  10. Baadnesss

    Baadnesss Junior Member

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    Amen Wingzero! Preach on, my man!
     
  11. Arti

    Arti Member
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    Wing Zero:

    You are absolutely right. When I wrote my piece I had been talking about the traditional stereotype, and my adive was towards every body not just asian american applicants. But,
    it is hard in life to avoid and not to take on the stereotypes that have been set up for you, so in that respect I believe that asian americans are disadvataged in the application process in the resoect of presenting a formula rather then individuality, and when applying this particular population has to make sure to demonstrate other things beside the formula image.

    Wing Zero. I agree with you 100 percent, but life is not politically correct. My oiginal piece was not P.C.(maybe racist), but avoiding the stereotypes will not make them go away, and the very un-original advice I gave in my original piece is a pretty good advice.

    Also Jim was a white guy, no really he was. I just wanted to show that maturity really makes a difference not ethnicity.

    Arti
     
  12. DrHalsey

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    What they say about Asians it true, it is one of the reasone the MCAT was rewritten. To keep bookworms (mostly Asians) from walking in with 4.0 GPAS, 40 MCAT and little else in the way of life experiences. And before anyone starts screaming stereotype, do some research and I would also like to note that I am part Asian and know what I am talking about. I had the choice of what I wanted to be..Doctor or failure and dishonor to the family.
     
  13. cloudmurder1

    cloudmurder1 Average Student

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    I love it how we can talk about Asian stereotypes and nobody, even most Asians, will get offended. This is not the case for other races unfortunately.
     
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  14. cloudmurder1

    cloudmurder1 Average Student

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    This x1000
     
  15. order66.exe

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    15 year necro bump brah
     
  16. NotASerialKiller

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    I think this issue is a good one to discuss every 15 years. Hopefully everyone will agree to continue this pattern.
     
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  17. Cyberdyne 101

    Cyberdyne 101 It's a dry heat
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    Really doe, let's revisit this in 2030
     
  18. Chelsea FC

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    [insert stupidity here]
     
    #17 Chelsea FC, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
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  19. Psai

    Psai Snitches get zero vicryl
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    why are you searching this?
     
  20. Ostallopathic

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    What the **** dude? Did you really think that would be a funny joke? You are literally talking about genocide as if it's a joke.
     
  21. Lost in Translation

    Lost in Translation 単純な馬鹿でありたい。
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    Don't worry, he's concerned about dating during med school. He'll be reproducing to replace the loss of life.
     
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  22. Gandyy

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    Eh, I'm Asian. Joke isnt funny, poor taste. Bad Joke. ugh
     
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  23. Psai

    Psai Snitches get zero vicryl
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    wow take your outrage elsewhere
     
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  24. Hey I'm asian. Lizzym 68-69. A little below average ECs, complete late September to October. 3 II and 1 acceptance. It might be bc of my state, but what I wanna say is that it's not impossible. I only have roughly a 30 on the Mcat. Maybe it depends on what state your residency is too. But I have to agree with a lot of asian kids being sheltered. I just wanna say that asian people need to stop pushing their kids into medicine. Do what you want and what you love :)

    Traditional applicant here too
     
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  25. DrHalsey

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    I think I made a terrible mistake bumping this thread...
     
  26. DrHalsey

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    Heresy! You must be a doctor! And you must move back home then marry a doctor or PHD!
     
  27. Seth Joo

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    Disadvantage to being an Asian? Hmmm. You might wind up in a job for which you are overqualified.
     
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  28. Petrichor1

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    @Arti you are so incorrect in your presumptions. You think that every asian is basically pampered their way into medical school while this is outside of what this current generation is feeling. This stereotype is perpetuated in workplaces that young asians go and even if that person is doing a full time job on top of a lot of things, people assume that the bills are being paid by the parents. This is not proper and does disservice to all the asians that work beyond hard to make a living and a future. Please keep your uneducated comments in your head. I don't see any difference between kids of other races with parents as caring as asians. I have plenty of different kinds of friends all who are supported by willing parents. To categorize that asians do this and that is to ignore the diversity of asian families. The only difference really is that even low income asian families will provide their soul to help their children but the children know exactly how hard their parents are working and equally put in their time into doing what is advised. On top of that, I don't think asians push their children towards medicine at all. They slip it in but they never force it in. I have seen parents of other races take it too far too but am I making any generalizations? I think coming from a culture that shows me how different people are within that culture has prepared me to not make these comments and generalizations. It makes young people's lives all the much harder when they follow untraditional routes and people like you ask insane questions from young asians. An example is "You guys only date these kinds of people right?"...like hmm are they supposed to be ambassadors to these questions? eek
     
    #27 Petrichor1, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  29. getdown

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    is this considered microaggression? Should we set up a safe space or add "trigger word warnings" to the title to warn people they may get offended in this thread?

    Please, let's all grow up and realize people make generalizations and is part of life. Let's all not get too worked up about comments before SDN becomes the next Mizzou
     
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  30. Petrichor1

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    woh dude calm down. The problem is that these uneducated comments are perpetuated everywhere and no one is appreciating how hard asian kids work on their own independently. If you can get educated on this that is enough. As far as I am concerned there was only one inappropriate comment made and that is sort of concerning if you can spot which one it was.

    that escalated quickly lol
     
  31. Chelsea FC

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    Wow im sorry I was messing around .. I do apologize if i pissed anyone off. I do see how it can be hurtful... IF it is any consolation I wasn't going the genocide route.
     
    #30 Chelsea FC, Nov 29, 2015
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  32. Chelsea FC

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    Ha ha people hooking up really rubs you the wrong way.. Thats sad
     
  33. getdown

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    No I understand what you're saying. I wasn't commenting on you specifically but with this new trend of microaggression and feeling offended by everything. Unless you're being personally attacked by the comments or they're just downright wrong/vulgar/etc people should learn to ignore these things. Having a thick skin is good in the workplace and real life where no one cares about how you feel especially if you're low on the totem pole.
     
  34. Petrichor1

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    that is true, these generalizations never really go away but a thick skin and confidence to respond in a way to slowly change opinions is a skill to be mastered.
     
  35. cloudmurder1

    cloudmurder1 Average Student

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    Oh how the tune would change if these "microaggressions" were put against another race.
     
  36. Lost in Translation

    Lost in Translation 単純な馬鹿でありたい。
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    Seems you care more than I do.

     
  37. Lawper

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    Which collapsed into a necroflame...
     
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  38. Chelsea FC

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    I am disappointed in myself to get in this convo with a obvious virgin who gets his/her panties in a twist when anyone mentions dating in medical school. This childish stuff isn't worth my time. Have a good day and even though you seem to have a vendetta with people who want to get laid, I apologize to you as well if you were offended by my failed attempts of a joke, it was of poor taste .. You fake quoting me to call me a racist is up to you not going to fight with you
     
    #37 Chelsea FC, Nov 29, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
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  39. dreamadream

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    Affirmative Action is a son of bleep, but as a URM...I'm cool.
     
  40. Chelsea FC

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    I think in the case of medical school and URM its not really a text book case of affirmative action its more of providing doctors to fit the need of the patient population.. So medical school wanting to get URM doctors isnt about groups that have been historically discriminated against from a education, its more about filling the disparity of doctors of a specific race to match the patient population.. You can ague whether that's right or wrong , but I just wanted to point out the distinction ... As a AA I see first hand how patients act differently around Black doctors so I do think there is some advantages to be gained . But thats just my humble opinion..
     
  41. Chelsea FC

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    this crazy cat agrees
     
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  42. flatbear

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    yeah I knew a ton of white (like Doolittle white) people in high school that suddenly discovered that they had hispanic heritage when it came time to apply to undergrad. Unfortunately its a bit hard for an east asian to pull the same kind of hat trick.
     
  43. Mad Jack

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    Hey now, you could also have been an engineer.
     
  44. Mad Jack

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    In med school they kind of ask you to back it up in the interview. Just saying you're Hispanic with no fluency or ties to the community won't get you anywhere, and might land your app in the round file quite rapidly.
     
  45. Med Ed

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    Most recent post by @Arti: August 29, 2000.
     
  46. DoReMiFaSo

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    You know the times when you realize it's a bad thread but it's so bad that you can't just stop reading?! T.T
     
  47. darknecrosforte

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    URM is useful because humans would prefer to see a doctor who looks like they belong to the same group. I get that. The fact that URM are still URM even with advantages does not warrant lowering of standards and the way URM is now is probably fine. We can only blame SES for so long before we realize that the info is online and available if people can walk to a library.

    Offense is generally admission of the inability to regulate one's own emotions. In terms of social justice warriors preaching anti-racism, I find that they reveal their hypocrisy when it comes to talking about Asians.


    Philosophically, it is a disadvantage to be Asian because most people outside of strict egalitarians will be blatantly racist and think that it is okay because of excuses such as "well... I'm saying GOOD things!" Imagine how the Asian who is bad at math feels every day at work. Unfortunately, people want to be able to say that Asians "are better" or have "advantages" without ever acknowledging they are actually at a minimum arguing about genetic trends in intelligence or in "superior cultures" when they do this. And if so, then the reverse is applicable to blacks and Hispanics as well. Determinism is a crappy argument. However, when you consider the difficulty in how cultures obtain food, you see a correlation with living with snowy climates or difficult-to-grow crops and having increased intelligence. Delaying instant gratification by not eating seed crop and responding appropriately to the seasons probably selects for more intelligence than living in a place where crops are easier to grow or animals are less scarce.

    I'm Filipino and would say that Filipinos are much more like Mexicans (indigneous tribes raped by Catholic Spaniards, similar modern language, lost writing system, telenovelas, game shows)... but for SOME reason, people think I like multi-variable calculus. Frickin' A
     
  48. Citygirl44

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    I would just like to say something to give a little perspective because I know that people tend to feel " a way"about certain things. Many times URM do other things in college other that study 24/7. Many are involved in athletics that take up 20-40 hours a week between games and practice. So this is 20-40 hours a week that they cannot study. So when you take these standardized exams and calculate GPA it may not be as impressive as someone who was able to study an additional 2000 hours. But see, these athletics are important because that's how the school gets a lot of there money for scholarships ( you may have received one). Football / basketball etc games on TV generate 1 million dollars a game for the school ( which helps with your financial aid and scholarships). Do you really think that after a person finishes with athletics and has an additional 40 hours a week to study that they won't be as good of a student/ doctor or whatever as the person that got the higher MCAT/ GPa to get into med school? Of course they will, because they have more time and have discipline. So before people gripe about URM getting into medical school with lower stats, you need to remember what I'm saying. I'm not going to respond to anyone's negative response about this. I'm just stating a fact, not up for debate. People that have more time to study, more tutors, less family obligations should get better grades, no matter what race you are.
     
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  49. AirplaneFruit

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    I would just like to say something to give a little perspective because I know that people tend to feel " a way"about certain things. Many times whites and Asian-Americans do other things in college other that study 24/7. Many are involved in athletics that take up 20-40 hours a week between games and practice. So this is 20-40 hours a week that they cannot study. So when you take these standardized exams and calculate GPA it may not be as impressive as someone who was able to study an additional 2000 hours. But see, these athletics are important because that's how the school gets a lot of there money for scholarships ( you may have received one). Football / basketball etc games on TV generate 1 million dollars a game for the school ( which helps with your financial aid and scholarships). Do you really think that after a person finishes with athletics and has an additional 40 hours a week to study that they won't be as good of a student/ doctor or whatever as the person that got the higher MCAT/ GPa to get into med school? Of course they will, because they have more time and have discipline. So before people gripe about whites and Asians getting into medical school with better stats, you need to remember what I'm saying. I'm not going to respond to anyone's negative response about this. I'm just stating a fact, not up for debate. People that have more time to study, more tutors, less family obligations should get better grades, no matter what race you are.
     
  50. AirplaneFruit

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    Ok lets reverse the roles. A white patient walks into a hospital or clinic and sees that his doctor will be a black man. "Ugh!? I don't want a black doctor! Give me a white doctor! I'm gonna respond worse to treatment because of this dirty n*gro in the hospital! Get me a nice clean white doctor!"

    You would immediately call him a racist. Yet we should accommodate a black or Hispanic patient saying the same thing about an Asian or White doctor. Got it.
     
  51. Cyberdyne 101

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