Discuss intended fellowship in personal statement for residency application?

[HereWeGo17]

Hi, I am a rising 4th year medical student who is intending to pursue a surgical field, with the long-term goal of doing a pediatric fellowship. My question is, is it a good idea to focus on this goal in my personal statement and interviews?

I think that my PS will show a lot more personality, enthusiasm, and passion if I get to talk about the pediatric surgeon mentors I've had, my desire to help kids, etc. etc. At the same time, I wouldn't want program directors to think that I have no interest in adult surgery, which is what the bulk of residency is all about. I like adult surgery a lot too; it's just that I like peds surgery more (in fact that is how I was introduced to this surgical field in the first place). Is it better to write about how I like the field as a whole, without any mention of peds surgery, even though the PS will probably end up more vanilla and less personal?

I'm fully aware that I may change my mind about intended fellowship once I'm actually in residency. I guess this is a similar situation to an IM applicant who wants to pursue fellowship in Cards, GI, etc. Do they focus on intended fellowships in their PS and interviews, or do they tend to discuss their interest in IM as a whole?

BTW, I'll only be applying to academic residency programs. I don't know if that matters in programs' perception of my desire to pursue peds fellowship. Thank you for your advice!

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[mvenus929]

I'm not a surgeon, but my thought if I read your personal statement about why you want to help kids would be 'then why don't you become a pediatrician?'. I think talking about what you like about surgery in general, and perhaps using anecdotes from peds surgery is fine, but focusing the entire PS on peds surgery is probably overkill.

 

[ProfMD]

I think it's ok to talk about your interest in peds surgery, but it's also important to make it clear that you have an open mind. As a fourth year med student, you have relatively little exposure to the field and the program faculty know it.

When I was writing my personal statement, I had a first draft in which I talked about all the things that are great about my chosen field and why I wanted to do it. My advisor, the department chair at the time, tore it to shreds. He said, and I paraphrase, "Who are you, a medical student, to tell me, a professor, what my field is like?" This was almost 15 years ago, I still remember it, and it was the best advice I got for my personal statement.

 

[HereWeGo17]

I'm not a surgeon, but my thought if I read your personal statement about why you want to help kids would be 'then why don't you become a pediatrician?'. I think talking about what you like about surgery in general, and perhaps using anecdotes from peds surgery is fine, but focusing the entire PS on peds surgery is probably overkill.

Yes, what you suggest is what I was planning to do - to talk about what I like about the field in general, but then focus on what I specifically like about Peds subspecialty to make it more personal. My question has more to do with whether or not it's OK at all to talk about intended fellowship, particularly in Peds surgery which is very different from adult surgery. Again, I imagine it's a similar situation to an IM applicant debating whether or not to talk about their interest in Cards/GI/etc. which are quite different from "general" IM. I know a lot of classmates who have no interest whatsoever in general IM but want to do Cards/GI, classmates who have no interest in general Rads but want to do IR, etc. I guess I can ask them how they are going about with their applications.

 

[rokshana]

Yes, what you suggest is what I was planning to do - to talk about what I like about the field in general, but then focus on what I specifically like about Peds subspecialty to make it more personal. My question has more to do with whether or not it's OK at all to talk about intended fellowship, particularly in Peds surgery which is very different from adult surgery. Again, I imagine it's a similar situation to an IM applicant debating whether or not to talk about their interest in Cards/GI/etc. which are quite different from "general" IM. I know a lot of classmates who have no interest whatsoever in general IM but want to do Cards/GI, classmates who have no interest in general Rads but want to do IR, etc. I guess I can ask them how they are going about with their applications.

ask yourself if reading your peds surgery-centric PS will help you get an interview at a GS program...because THAT is the purpose of your PS...

 

[Smurfette]

There's nothing wrong with expressing interest in peds surgery in your PS. However, make sure you also discuss why surgery is a good fit, not just the "kids" part. Peds surg is a small part of GS residency and you don't want to sound like you are going to be unhappy dealing with the grown ups that will be the main focus over the next 5 years.

 

[dggopal]

I remember my first personal statement was from the perspective of why I want to go into IM. I went unmatched and no one really brought up my PS in interviews because it was pretty bland. This year I re wrote the whole damn thing from the perspective of why the PD should hire me and why I would excel in the field of IM. I matched and every interviewer brought up my PS.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Agree with the others.

Faculty can be pretty eye-rolly about future plans especially when they come from a student with relatively little exposure to a subspecialty. In addition. general surgery is a long haul and we don't want to think we're going to be faced with someone who finds adult surgical issues tiresome/boring/gross (I recall a pediatric resident rotating on Peds Surg with us who would grimace visibly every time she had to examine an adult sized teenager).

Its ok to mention but you aren't applying for the Peds Surg match but the GS one; you'd be better off discussing why you want to be a surgeon in general.

 

[QofQuimica]

I wound up taking a couple years off between residency and fellowship and am applying for fellowship now. I did mention the fellowship I wanted to do when I applied for residency six years ago in my PS, and it had the benefit that, pretty much at every program, I got to meet with faculty in that subspecialty. Also, when looking at programs this year, I already had a good idea of where I would be applying and had met several of the relevant faculty and PDs. At one program, I was talking to the fellowship PD over the phone, and he remembered having interviewed me before when I was applying for residency. (I am a nontrad with an organic chemistry PhD applying in a small, obscure subspecialty that doesn't get many MD/PhD applicants period, let alone applicants with a chemistry PhD.)

So I don't think it would be a bad thing for you to mention your interest in peds surgery, because you will possibly get to meet some peds surg faculty interviewers that way. That being said, I agree with the others that you need to be very careful not to make it seem like you aren't interested in gen surg. I was very careful in my PS to emphasize that I was interested in both specialties, not just the subspecialty.

 

[Donald Juan]

I have no advice for you as many much more experienced surgeons have given their input that you should surely follow. I do have to remark how silly it is that you have to pretend you are interested in being a general adult surgeon, when they know that 80% of you will end up being a specialist. For every eye roll a program director gives, I have to give two back for what they expect candidates to say.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Many of my IM candidates mention an interest in a subspecialty. That's totally fine with me. We try to have them interviewed by someone in that field. Our best interview days are when someone interested in Cards is being interviewed by a Cardiologist who is in the middle of an emergent cath. Those folks leave us all jazzed up and excited.

 

[ProfMD]

I have no advice for you as many much more experienced surgeons have given their input that you should surely follow. I do have to remark how silly it is that you have to pretend you are interested in being a general adult surgeon, when they know that 80% of you will end up being a specialist. For every eye roll a program director gives, I have to give two back for what they expect candidates to say.

I have no problem with applicants wanting to pursue a subspeciality. The reasons for the advice I gave are two-fold:
1) Residency still requires that you do everything. You also need to learn everything to become board certifies.
2) in my experience, many of the applicants who express interest in a certain subspeciality end up changing their minds. Having an open mind entering residency is important, just as it is when you start med school.

 

[doc05]

I'd avoid mentioning it altogether. Peds is a very competitive match and your statement will come across as presumptuous

 

[QofQuimica]

I have no advice for you as many much more experienced surgeons have given their input that you should surely follow. I do have to remark how silly it is that you have to pretend you are interested in being a general adult surgeon, when they know that 80% of you will end up being a specialist. For every eye roll a program director gives, I have to give two back for what they expect candidates to say.

No one is advising the OP to pretend anything. But presumably, OP is interested in surgery in general, because otherwise they would have applied in peds rather than in surgery with a plan to do a peds fellowship. Since OP is applying for a gen surg residency and not a peds surg fellowship at this time, it is appropriate to mention their interest in peds surg, but the focus of their residency PS should still be on getting good overall gen surg training. You can't be a good peds surgeon without first learning general surgery. And many of the general principles of surgery will apply to both adults and children.

 

[Donald Juan]

No one is advising the OP to pretend anything. But presumably, OP is interested in surgery in general, because otherwise they would have applied in peds rather than in surgery with a plan to do a peds fellowship. Since OP is applying for a gen surg residency and not a peds surg fellowship at this time, it is appropriate to mention their interest in peds surg, but the focus of their residency PS should still be on getting good overall gen surg training. You can't be a good peds surgeon without first learning general surgery. And many of the general principles of surgery will apply to both adults and children.

And many of the principles of general surgery apply to ENT, plastics, vascular, urology, neurosurg, cardiothoracic, and orthopedics, but somehow they don't require 5 years of general surgery, and they don't require people to pretend they want to "do it all, be a fully well rounded surgeon!" prior to residency. Maybe, just maybe the 5 years gen surg + 2-3 years fellowship for nearly everyone is flawed in this day and age.

I'm curious if you guys would think the same way if this person said they were interested in colorectal or minimally invasive. "Don't tell people you're interested in minimally invasive, then they'll roll their eyes and think you don't care about open!"

 

[QofQuimica]

And many of the principles of general surgery apply to ENT, plastics, vascular, urology, neurosurg, cardiothoracic, and orthopedics, but somehow they don't require 5 years of general surgery, and they don't require people to pretend they want to "do it all, be a fully well rounded surgeon!" prior to residency. Maybe, just maybe the 5 years gen surg + 2-3 years fellowship for nearly everyone is flawed in this day and age.

I'm curious if you guys would think the same way if this person said they were interested in colorectal or minimally invasive. "Don't tell people you're interested in minimally invasive, then they'll roll their eyes and think you don't care about open!"

I've said twice now that the OP *should* mention their fellowship interest in their PS, and I also explained that I discussed my subspecialty interest myself when applying to residency. Not really sure why you're drawing the conclusion that I think OP should "pretend" to want to be a surgeon. I guess maybe I just don't get the big distinction you're making between peds surgery and gen surg. To my mind, peds surgeons *are* general surgeons, only for kids. So if OP is not interested in gen surgery, why would they be interested in peds surgery?

Maybe here's the disconnect: I'm assuming OP *is* interested in gen surg, but just wants to specialize in a particular area of it--peds--while you're assuming they are *not* interested in gen surg but are being being forced to endure five years of it even though they don't like it. I guess I don't get how anyone who dislikes gen surg could possibly like peds surg. If you don't like surgery in general, why would you like any surgical subspecialty?

As for the second question, I'm not a surgeon, have not gone through any surgical training since my med school rotation, and won't presume to answer regarding the best way to set up surgical residency/fellowship programs. But I'd give the same answer to anyone who was interested in any subspecialty of any specialty: it's fine to mention your interest in X or Y subspecialty in your residency PS, but don't be so focused on it in your PS that it seems like you aren't interested in your primary specialty. Because from a practical perspective, you need to finish residency first before you have the option of doing the subspecialty. Considering how many far stupider (and costlier) hoops one has to jump through to get into (and through) medical school, why take particular umbrage at having to do a residency before being able to do a fellowship?

 

[evilbooyaa]

Maybe here's the disconnect: I'm assuming OP *is* interested in gen surg, but just wants to specialize in a particular area of it--peds--while you're assuming they are *not* interested in gen surg but are being being forced to endure five years of it even though they don't like it. I guess I don't get how anyone who dislikes gen surg could possibly like peds surg. If you don't like surgery in general, why would you like any surgical subspecialty?

There are a ton of people who really love surgery (including most of the sub-specialties mentioned above) that would never, ever want to do a surgical case, even if they've been trained in it (non-integrated CT surg, non-integrated vasc, etc.)

It's a bit more tricky with saying MIS/Colorectal since there is significant overlap with general surgery.

However, Peds seems to me like kind of a different beast. Similar procedures but I've heard it's very different doing it on kids.