Dismissed after first term

[sunealoneal]

Let the poor person repeat the year! Don't they want more money?!

Unfortunately they probably see that as a spot that another student could have. If they are not confident that OP will pass, they miss out on all the other semesters' worth of tuition.

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[MiaMia14]

We had a few students that were dismissed from our class get into other DO schools. Obviously not the easiest thing, but it has happened. Probably a better idea than trying Caribbean.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

No, I'm still considering my options for becoming a physician. Caribbean is looking better and better...

I think as long as you know that you will be looking at psych, FM or peds, its not a terrible idea.

You will need to really kick ass down there though. Cant make any mistakes.


Think about podiatry school as well if you're surgical. You'd still be a doctor.

 

[Goro]

Sorry to hear about your woes, but did you, at any time, ask for a leave of absence?

Could you have asked for a deferral given the short time line between acceptance and start of classes?

You may need to appeal to the Dean of the school, and failing that, his/her higher ups (Chancellor, President, Provost etc).

Coming out late with the learning disability doesn't help your case. I do see many bad choices.

Best to start thinking about Plan B as well.

Hi all, please bear with me in through this long post, I could sure use your help.

I've been dismissed from an osteopathic medical program today after my first term and an unsuccessful appeal. I would appreciate anybody reading this and providing helpful advice on where to go from here, or simply if anybody can relate to my situation. I am disclosing all information pertaining to my situation so you can get a pretty good idea of the predicament I am in.

Here's the story: I was accepted into my program three weeks before classes began and moved across the country (literally, coast-to-coast) to attend school. I was definitely apprehensive at first, not knowing if it would be feasible to move, as well as prepare for and start med school in three weeks. Furthermore, the school where I was accepted is in a large city and I knew it would be hard to find housing on short notice, let alone start medical school without yet having a place to live. I went for it though, how could I pass up that opportunity. Finding housing was a nightmare and I didn't end up signing a lease until about two months into the term. This complicated the first eight weeks of school and, though I felt behind, I didn't start feeling a sense of impending doom until I got a kidney stone during the first set of exams. I was in the hospital for a day and out of commission for five days (due to passing stone and pain meds). *By the by, this sob story of my short-notice move and acute illness (with supporting medical documentation) was covered in my appeal.* The kidney stone set me back 5-6 days and, perhaps needless to say, I did poorly on the first set of exams. Second set of exams, much better. All A's, B's, and one C.

I will note at this point that after the difficulty of getting settled due to my short-notice cross-country move, with subsequent illness and hospitalization, I was feeling reallllly behind and was petrified of being dismissed. I met with the dean (twice), and with my anatomy professors several times. Anatomy was the class I was struggling most in since it was really easy to get behind due to the amount of material. I was feeling better about school after the second set of exams, though I did poorly on the second anatomy practical as well.

Now on to finals week. On the second day of finals week I became ill with recurrent IBS (medical documentation also provided in my appeal) and bombed all finals apart from anatomy. Given this unfortunate turn of events, as well as the nightmare of my early semester, I never felt like I really had a chance to establish a quality study regimen and get into a good groove because since pretty much day one I was living from exam to exam. My motivation never dwindled and I was studying pretty much 24/7. When I told my classmates/friends, they were shocked and offered to write letters to the dean attesting to my dedication and rough go at things.

As a last ditch, I also came forward with, and included in my appeal, a well-documented learning disability that I have. In hindsight, I should have come forward with it sooner, but it had never been a problem in undergrad and I never struggled with in my studies. I just figured that it couldn't hurt.

Long story, sorry. So...school had me fill out forms for disability accommodation and my dismissal was pended until the results of a teleconference with disability services were released. My disability accommodations were approved, and two hours later my appeal was rejected and my dismissal was final.

I was very humble in my appeal and included all documentation (very thorough), as well as a proposed academic plan and a statement describing why the factors that initially held me back would not be an issue should I be reinstated.

Again, sorry about the long post, but you can imagine how miserable this is and I am just looking for any feedback to help me make sense of this mess.

Thanks.

 

[costales]

We had a few students that were dismissed from our class get into other DO schools.

Seeing how hard it was for Bones to get back in the game, I wouldn't lend much credence to such reports. Academic dismissal is a huge deal breaker, and DO schools have plenty of applicants without red flags.

 

[MiaMia14]

Seeing how hard it was for Bones to get back in the game, I wouldn't lend much credence to such reports. Academic dismissal is a huge deal breaker, and DO schools have plenty of applicants without red flags.

I know it's difficult and maybe our school helped them get in but I know of 2 people that failed out of my class and ended up in the year below our year at other schools. It isn't just a rumor, I actually know them. I'm just saying it might be worth it to try before going to the Caribbean.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I know it's difficult and maybe our school helped them get in but I know of 2 people that failed out of my class and ended up in the year below our year at other schools. It isn't just a rumor, I actually know them. I'm just saying it might be worth it to try before going to the Caribbean.

I would apply to both DO schools and carib schools in the same cycle. When you get interviews you make no excuses for failing out. Just own it and tell them you know what you need to fix. I think you probably will get a second chance at this.

I dont think it would be wise to wait too long if you do decide on the carib. Every single year it gets tougher at those schools to match.

 

[deleted480308]

I would encourage against Caribbean. You've already failed once and more than half your classes. The carribean is not a cheap place to risk not being amazing. And amazing is what it will take to get a residency from the carribean when you already have an academic dismissal.

Consider going american medical school or some other field as your better options

 

[jqueb29]

IBS is, in general, a bull**** diagnosis. The typical board question is usually a young woman with psych issues and GI complaints. No one is going to consider that a major medical problem, so I wouldn't bring that up anymore.

It's a very difficult syndrome to correctly and precisely diagnose, but I guarantee if you ask anybody who has it we will tell you that it absolutely is a major medical problem to deal with.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

The Caribbean looks at you with a big smile too...

What were your entering gpa and mcat? If you have stellar numbers, it's less of a really bad option, but they would love to take your money, regardless if you are ready to pass the courses or not. If you think you got no love from the DO school...they'll change your mind.
Try to remediate the year.

MCAT 31, Science GPA 3.6, Cumulative 2.8 (undergrad was bad, post-bac was good). Not stellar numbers, but not terrible. Remediation is what I want the most at this point, but I can't get the dean to give me the time of day (or a personal meeting). I don't know what to do at this point.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I would avoid Caribbean schools like the plague. I would beg them to let to repeat the year, if not then start working on reapplying, there are schools that may give you a shot given your well documented illness.

Most importantly, take care off yourself first. The first semester is the most difficult and its normal too struggle given the enormous volume of material you face for the first time in your academic life. You know what med school is like, now would be a time to step and see if you really want to do this too?

Wish you all the best, many have been in your shoes before you and things worked out. Take care off yourself.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. My health problems are resolved and it has never been a question of drive, commitment, or capability. I guess it is hard to see from an outside perspective, but my situation was really just a set of issues that were out of my control. When I was healthy and settled, I aced my exams. Thanks again.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

It's super tough as a Carib grad at the big 4 to land a residency and it's only getting tougher. I doubt most residency committees look well on caribbean applicants who were previously dismissed at domestic medical schools And with the residency crunch by the time you graduate... I'd think long and hard about going abroad if this doesn't work out. It's a tough situation to be in but no point digging in your heels when the odds ain't looking good.

Yeah I hear it is definitely tough, but I've spoken with some grads who were in a similar position who killed their Step 1 and got a decent residency. Obviously none of this is ideal, but I've got to work with what I have.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Unfortunately they probably see that as a spot that another student could have. If they are not confident that OP will pass, they miss out on all the other semesters' worth of tuition.

What confuses me though is why some schools seem to support their students in tough times more than others. One would think that school admin understands that dismissal is career killing, especially after only the first semester.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Sorry to hear about your woes, but did you, at any time, ask for a leave of absence?

Could you have asked for a deferral given the short time line between acceptance and start of classes?

You may need to appeal to the Dean of the school, and failing that, his/her higher ups (Chancellor, President, Provost etc).

Coming out late with the learning disability doesn't help your case. I do see many bad choices.

Best to start thinking about Plan B as well.

I asked for a deferral at the time of acceptance and was not granted a deferral.

Coming out with my learning disability wasn't actually part of my reasons for appeal. I'll elaborate because I can see how this might cause confusion. I brought up my learning disability as part of the measures I would take in the future to show that I was taking advantage of any and all assistance to help me succeed. To be clear, at no point did I cite my disability as a cause of my issues this past term. I suppose I thought it would be a way to show that I was being thorough and seeking all avenues of assistance.

I didn't ask for a leave of absence because my problems were acute conditions that occurred at horribly inopportune times (Murphy's Law at its finest). In hindsight, it seems it could have perhaps been an option, but I don't know if it applies to my conditions, which were found to not be life threatening.

Also, I'd like to hear anyone else's opinion on going to higher-ups, because I'm finding it difficult to have the dean reply to my emails.

Thanks

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I would encourage against Caribbean. You've already failed once and more than half your classes. The carribean is not a cheap place to risk not being amazing. And amazing is what it will take to get a residency from the carribean when you already have an academic dismissal.

Consider going american medical school or some other field as your better options

I understand your point and it seems objective, worthwhile advice. However, my situation is in fact one of those times where my performance directly correlates to my health issues (says everybody in my position, always...I know). When I was healthy and settled I did well on my exams and even had a letter written by the dean of student affairs placed in my file congratulating me on excellent performance on my second round of practicals. So I guess you just have to take my word for it that being "amazing," as you put it, isn't really the issue. Nevertheless, your point is well taken and I thank you for the comment.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I know it's difficult and maybe our school helped them get in but I know of 2 people that failed out of my class and ended up in the year below our year at other schools. It isn't just a rumor, I actually know them. I'm just saying it might be worth it to try before going to the Caribbean.

Really? I'd be interested to hear what they have to say about their experience if that is somehow a possibility. Thanks for the post.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I would apply to both DO schools and carib schools in the same cycle. When you get interviews you make no excuses for failing out. Just own it and tell them you know what you need to fix. I think you probably will get a second chance at this.

I dont think it would be wise to wait too long if you do decide on the carib. Every single year it gets tougher at those schools to match.

Good call. I've signed up for an informational seminar for Ross next week. They will have former students and faculty there for Q&A.

 

[hse]

Sorry to hear about your woes, but did you, at any time, ask for a leave of absence?

Could you have asked for a deferral given the short time line between acceptance and start of classes?

You may need to appeal to the Dean of the school, and failing that, his/her higher ups (Chancellor, President, Provost etc).

Coming out late with the learning disability doesn't help your case. I do see many bad choices.

Best to start thinking about Plan B as well.

@Goro : it seems you would not accept op if s/he applied to your school... but generally speaking, what are the chances of getting in at a typical do school if a person had an academic dismissal from another school?

 

[IlDestriero]

You can't remediate 4 classes. Your only chance is repeating the year.
Good luck.

 

[jakeislove]

Yeah I hear it is definitely tough, but I've spoken with some grads who were in a similar position who killed their Step 1 and got a decent residency. Obviously none of this is ideal, but I've got to work with what I have.

You may not have a realistic view of how combining the match will affect Caribbean graduates.

 

[Goro]

I think that given OP's health issues that s/he should have been allowed to repeat the year. I suspect, as is typical with posts like these, that we're not hearing all of the story, however.

But to answer your question, someone academically dismissed from ANY med school would be DOA at my school.

My school has on occasion, accepted people who had to leave MD programs due to health issues, but so far, we've never had an instance like that with someone coming from another DO school.

@Goro : it seems you would not accept op if s/he applied to your school... but generally speaking, what are the chances of getting in at a typical do school if a person had an academic dismissal from another school?

 

[user3]

Seeing how hard it was for Bones to get back in the game, I wouldn't lend much credence to such reports. Academic dismissal is a huge deal breaker, and DO schools have plenty of applicants without red flags.

there is a new for profit DO school opening in 2016 with a large class size. OP may have a shot there.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

You can't remediate 4 classes. Your only chance is repeating the year.
Good luck.

That is what I'm hoping and begging for at this point, however, the dean is not being receptive. I would be very grateful for any advice. Thank you for the post.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

there is a new for profit DO school opening in 2016 with a large class size. OP may have a shot there.

Which school?

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I think that given OP's health issues that s/he should have been allowed to repeat the year. I suspect, as is typical with posts like these, that we're not hearing all of the story, however.

But to answer your question, someone academically dismissed from ANY med school would be DOA at my school.

My school has on occasion, accepted people who had to leave MD programs due to health issues, but so far, we've never had an instance like that with someone coming from another DO school.

That is what absolutely terrifies me. I don't know how I differ from others in my position, but I know that I have nothing to gain by being anything other than totally honest. It sickens me to think that my career could be over because of unfortunate circumstances. I'm given all pertinent facts, but if there are questions that need to be answered please ask. I need all the help I can get.

 

[Dr. Zombie]

That is what absolutely terrifies me. I don't know how I differ from others in my position, but I know that I have nothing to gain by being anything other than totally honest. It sickens me to think that my career could be over because of unfortunate circumstances. I'm given all pertinent facts, but if there are questions that need to be answered please ask. I need all the help I can get.

There are several options I do insist OP should try for:

1. Beg in the appeal letter to repeat the year.

2. If his school has a pipeline SMP/Medical Masters program--CCOM, LECOM come to mind amongst the bunch out there, then maybe he can technically apply for those and he can re-prove his worthiness.

3. Apply to new/low-tier DO schools *now* and in June, apply DO again + SGU (January class). He already has been exposed to medical school courses, so his chance to start on the right track in SGU will be likely. (Again, if he's fine with FM, IM, and Psych provided he can score 225+ on USMLE).

Listen OP, call all 30 schools tomorrow morning or email them a brief description of your dismissal due to failure due to health issues and if your application would be considered because if so, you'll send your primary within the week.

 

[hse]

MCAT 31, Science GPA 3.6, Cumulative 2.8 (undergrad was bad, post-bac was good). Not stellar numbers, but not terrible. Remediation is what I want the most at this point, but I can't get the dean to give me the time of day (or a personal meeting). I don't know what to do at this point.

those numbers are different from your post dated 6/30/14... ??

 

[j4pac]

First of all...good luck

You do need to evaluate if medicine is for you. Not the medicine knowledge, prestige, and money. Is the lifestyle for you? It is something that not all med students are ready for.

Believe it or not...stuff happens in life...at all stages of your training. Your ability to overcome despite those distractions is what defines you. If you are the type of person who needs to take one step at a time...then medicine isn't for you.

You seemed PRIMED for failure before you even started. You had no confidence going in. You don't look like you have any confidence now...so if I was your PD, why should I expect a different result if you were allowed to re-enter? I think that the Stone and the IBS are a convenient excuse for your failure.

Find a profession that isn't going to cause overwhelming anxiety...life's too short.

 

[JRO38]

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[JRO38]

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[ToldYouSo]

Is the first semester of M1 really seen as the easiest part of med school? I always thought it was the hardest part because of the adjustment to information volume.

 

[TheFuture_22]

Is the first semester of M1 really seen as the easiest part of med school? I always thought it was the hardest part because of the adjustment to information volume.

I think it depends on the person. If you have an extensive background in science before med school you would probably find it to be the easiest part. If you come from a non-science background and only took the pre-reqs you would probably find it to be the hardest.

 

[costales]

I agree with the above post - really evaluate if this is what you want. It is a LONG road for any med student, but you also have the added disadvantages of being academically dismissed, some chronic problems (IBS, learning disability), and thinking Caribbean now so you REALLY need to step your game up from the average student. You can't afford to just be an average student - you would have to prove yourself. Evaluate if this is realistic.... so if you do want to continue, you need to ensure you can study and perform in the face of pain/discomfort/whatever life throws at you. You will likely face similar circumstances or a different type of "perfect storm" (maybe death of loved one, need for surgery, vehicle accident) at some point during the rest of your life and you need to be able to perform. Period.

Many medical students have experienced situations similar to yours and still passed or even excelled. This is a necessary quality of physicians, regardless of the specific disease or stress. I had a friend who had frequent biliary colic from gallstones for ~1 month before surgery (needed to wait for right time to schedule), depression, anxiety, and there was a death in her family the 2nd year of medical school and she still excelled. Some students get pregnant and have babies (morning sickness, the last few months of pregnancy are killer for any woman, having to nurse and take care of that baby colic). Some students battle debilitating depression. Some have appendicitis. I think it was the right decision to dismiss after 4 failures but they should allow you to retry next year (in my opinion) but only if you prove you can pass every class regardless of what comes up in life. You can still study dermatomes while crapping your brains out on the toilet, don't let illness define your abilities because people often will not care. Some think it is ironic that the medical profession doesn't have much sympathy for illness; I think it is more an issue of the job being so demanding that you need to rise above it, or make room for another student who can.

Excellent point. I have similar examples - in fact, I had a friend who lost her mother to cancer in 2nd year and still graduated on time. It's a matter of coping - med school is a major pain in the ass, no matter how you cut it. The concern here is not only for classes and boards - the risk of failing rotations and getting fired during residency is real if people think you're unreliable and incompetent.

Most people who failed out of my school did so after the 1st semester. They basically concluded that med school wasn't the path for them and withdrew. People who had to remediate or repeat typically had trouble drinking from the firehose properly, but most learned their lessons quickly.

 

[user3]

Which school?

Burrell COM (NM).

I think you guys are being too harsh. We can make assumptions, but we can't truly judge what it is/was like to be in his shoes this past semester. I think he definitely should be allowed to repeat the year.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Which school?

those numbers are different from your post dated 6/30/14... ??

I took MCAT again and finished some summer classes because I was reapplying for the 2015 cycle before I was accepted in 2014.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Burrell COM (NM).

I think you guys are being too harsh. We can make assumptions, but we can't truly judge what it is/was like to be in his shoes this past semester. I think he definitely should be allowed to repeat the year.

Thanks user3, I really appreciate the post.

 

[JRO38]

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[Lasers!Pewpew!]

I don't think harsh is the right word. We (MS2-4, resident, attending, admission staff) are all trying to give a previous MS1 perspective, which most do not have - they haven't lived it yet, they may not know the full extent of what they face. I think it would be a great disservice to sugar-coat everything and give him a false sense of security going into unknown territory.

Interesting that you used the word judge. A malpractice judge/jury will not show sympathy or "put themselves in a physician's shoes" if a severe IBS flare led to a botched surgery or that a depressed physician missed an obvious diagnosis. Those physicians will be judged. Once you leave medical school, you need to deliver "standard of care" every day you go into work, regardless of any outside factors. That isn't harsh or judgmental, that is reality. You need to prepare for this day 1 of medical school and get used to it.

You make a valid point and I totally agree with you. My situation, while unique in its own right, echoes every other person who has been in a similar situation. Moreover, I would never want a physician who lets their personal issues (health, etc.) interfere with their work while taking care of myself or my family.

However, painting with broad strokes, while a useful heuristic, often does not tell the whole story. I frequently do this and would not be likely to offer much sympathy to a sob story such as mine. I think JR has given me the most to think about and has underlined the most important point: It's not about me (or the physicians) in the end, its about patients.

The seemingly negative or harsh comments, though not intentionally so, are a reality check. My situation was unfortunate and the odds seemingly against me, but I really believe it will make me a better physician. JR is right, one needs to be prepared day 1 for medical school and the medical profession, and I was uncomfortable with how little time I had to prepare (which was, literally, no time). Hindsight is 20/20. This is a hurdle, but not a wall. I will overcome this and be stronger for it.

I am committed 100% to becoming a physician and it is going to happen. This is a tough time for me right now, but how we negotiate tough times is what defines our character right?

 

[hse]

I took MCAT again and finished some summer classes because I was reapplying for the 2015 cycle before I was accepted in 2014.

thx for clarifying... in case you don't know , @DocEspana went to your school. you should pm him. maybe he could share some insight as to how to proceed with your dean and your school administration

 

[JRO38]

.

 

[DocEspana]

thx for clarifying... in case you don't know , @DocEspana went to your school. you should pm him. maybe he could share some insight as to how to proceed with your dean and your school administration

<puts on humanist face>

How can I help you?

For real, just give me a PM. I'll try to make myself available to help. but I'm too lazy to read this whole thread right now. so PM me some spark notes.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Yes, you are facing significant adversity right now. If you overcome that and excel academically (to show that the academic dismissal was indeed a fluke) you will have a good chance of becoming a physician (solid character/resolve + academic/clinical strength = good candidate). It's just going to be more of an uphill battle than most, and you'll need to be proactive at every stage of the game. Good luck.

Thanks JR

 

[SLC]

Your school probably thinks they are doing you a favor kicking you out now while your debt is minimal. It could be worse, you could get dumped after M2 and failing boards when your debt is over $100k

I know that sounds cruel, but think of the risk of re-entering if given the chance; if you fail later on you could really damage yourself financially.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

Your school probably thinks they are doing you a favor kicking you out now while your debt is minimal. It could be worse, you could get dumped after M2 and failing boards when your debt is over $100k

I know that sounds cruel, but think of the risk of re-entering if given the chance; if you fail later on you could really damage yourself financially.

I see your point, and there is some merit there. And it's not necessarily cruel, education is a business and they have to make certain assumptions. Yet if they actually expressed that sentiment at this point, it would be totally disingenuous. The deans at my school have given me zero feedback, refuse to meet with me, and won't return my emails or phone calls. While I understand that this probably happens with some degree regularity, no two cases are exactly alike and there truly is a lot of gray area in my case that they are just refusing to hear. I know that if I was given a second chance and on a level playing field now that all my issues are sorted out, I would be at the top of the class. I just haven't had any opportunity to say or prove that.

 

[Lasers!Pewpew!]

You can't remediate 4 classes. Your only chance is repeating the year.
Good luck.

Thank you.

 

[singh9]

Good call. I've signed up for an informational seminar for Ross next week. They will have former students and faculty there for Q&A.

I highly recommend this route if you cannot gain admittance at any school stateside. Your chances will be excellent at Ross for completion and matching to any residency of your choosing. There are many successful Ross graduates in every U. S. state and you will find them in almost every hospital. Do not lose hope because of this unfortunate mishap, and never let naysayers gain the upper hand in your outlook on life. I wish you much success in your career as a physician.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I highly recommend this route if you cannot gain admittance at any school stateside. Your chances will be excellent at Ross for completion and matching to any residency of your choosing. There are many successful Ross graduates in every U. S. state and you will find them in almost every hospital. Do not lose hope because of this unfortunate mishap, and never let naysayers gain the upper hand in your outlook on life. I wish you much success in your career as a physician.

Oh hello Ross marketing staff!

 

[SLC]

I highly recommend this route if you cannot gain admittance at any school stateside. Your chances will be excellent at Ross for completion and matching to any residency of your choosing. There are many successful Ross graduates in every U. S. state and you will find them in almost every hospital. Do not lose hope because of this unfortunate mishap, and never let naysayers gain the upper hand in your outlook on life. I wish you much success in your career as a physician.

Wow, solid advice!!! Glad you could give it without the usual sales pitch.

 

[JRO38]

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[ChrisGriffen]

OP..... ALWAYS check the post history of who you are taking advice from.

Generally speaking you can ignore anyone who has only 1 or 2 posts, is a pre-med/m1 or has the username Albinohawk.