Dismissed after first term

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Is the first semester of M1 really seen as the easiest part of med school? I always thought it was the hardest part because of the adjustment to information volume.

Honestly, as far as pre-clinical education goes (I have no idea about clinicals yet), I'd call first semester the 2nd hardest semester of the first 4. The hardest being the semester before boards (I've just started and the test and mountain in front of us is palpable).

The biggest issue first semester is adjustment to the quantity of material and methods of studying. After that, you have some idea of what to do to make it through the next couple semesters, so they're a bit easier. Now as far as difficulty of material goes, first semester was by far the easiest. It only gets harder leading up to boards.

From what I've gathered from everyone I've talked to and in part from my own experience, med school is painful 1st year, excruciating 2nd year, painful 3rd year, and not terrible 4th year (of course that year you're freaked out about interviews and applications, so that will add stress to the year).

I highly recommend this route if you cannot gain admittance at any school stateside. Your chances will be excellent at Ross for completion and matching to any residency of your choosing. There are many successful Ross graduates in every U. S. state and you will find them in almost every hospital. Do not lose hope because of this unfortunate mishap, and never let naysayers gain the upper hand in your outlook on life. I wish you much success in your career as a physician.

Your statements are false. I know many people at Ross or who have finished from it. ~30% of the class is lost before Step 1. As far as matching goes, it's around 60-some%. As far as any specialty goes, virtually everyone goes into IM, FM, or Peds.

Ross may be one of the best (among the top 4) Carib schools, but suggesting that chances of completion and matching, let alone matching at your pick of residencies, is excellent is at very least misleading.

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OP..... ALWAYS check the post history of who you are taking advice from.

Generally speaking you can ignore anyone who has only 1 or 2 posts, is a pre-med/m1 or has the username Albinohawk.

So you're saying I shouldn't have purchased that timeshare...I mean, two timeshares...on Dominica?
 
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Honestly, as far as pre-clinical education goes (I have no idea about clinicals yet), I'd call first semester the 2nd hardest semester of the first 4. The hardest being the semester before boards (I've just started and the test and mountain in front of us is palpable).

The biggest issue first semester is adjustment to the quantity of material and methods of studying. After that, you have some idea of what to do to make it through the next couple semesters, so they're a bit easier. Now as far as difficulty of material goes, first semester was by far the easiest. It only gets harder leading up to boards.

From what I've gathered from everyone I've talked to and in part from my own experience, med school is painful 1st year, excruciating 2nd year, painful 3rd year, and not terrible 4th year (of course that year you're freaked out about interviews and applications, so that will add stress to the year).



Your statements are false. I know many people at Ross or who have finished from it. ~30% of the class is lost before Step 1. As far as matching goes, it's around 60-some%. As far as any specialty goes, virtually everyone goes into IM, FM, or Peds.

Ross may be one of the best (among the top 4) Carib schools, but suggesting that chances of completion and matching, let alone matching at your pick of residencies, is excellent is at very least misleading.
But but but Ross graduates more students into US residencies than any other school! (...because when your entering class is twice the size than the average medical school and you have 3 of those a year...)
 
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Let me pose this question to whomever may be reading:

What would you do if you were me? I am 100% confident in my ability to perform well above average in medical school, and am 100% confident that the issues I had this past semester are resolved. I have a lot to offer the medical community and being a physician is all I want out of life.
I really do believe that I have a legitimate case to be allowed to repeat the year at my former institution (or at the very least, be allowed to leave with a 'withdrawn' instead of 'dismissed').
Caribbean schools are absolutely a last resort, but I feel like I need a plan B because I have no idea how this will turn out.
I'll apply to new and lower tier DO schools, but certainly temper my expectations.
I want to exhaust all of my options for becoming a physician and am willing to do whatever it takes.

And thanks again everybody that has been posting. This is the most difficult thing I've ever had to go through and it really helps to have a community of people that are willing to listen.
 
Because of the merger?

Match rate was around 50% for some schools before the merger. How good do you think things will be until DO grads figure out why only Caribbean grads would take certain residencies?
 
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Let me pose this question to whomever may be reading:

What would you do if you were me? I am 100% confident in my ability to perform well above average in medical school, and am 100% confident that the issues I had this past semester are resolved. I have a lot to offer the medical community and being a physician is all I want out of life.
I really do believe that I have a legitimate case to be allowed to repeat the year at my former institution (or at the very least, be allowed to leave with a 'withdrawn' instead of 'dismissed').
Caribbean schools are absolutely a last resort, but I feel like I need a plan B because I have no idea how this will turn out.
I'll apply to new and lower tier DO schools, but certainly temper my expectations.
I want to exhaust all of my options for becoming a physician and am willing to do whatever it takes.

And thanks again everybody that has been posting. This is the most difficult thing I've ever had to go through and it really helps to have a community of people that are willing to listen.

I guess you could consider podiatry school. The standards were (are?) lower than for DO schools back when I applied.
 
Let me pose this question to whomever may be reading:

What would you do if you were me? I am 100% confident in my ability to perform well above average in medical school, and am 100% confident that the issues I had this past semester are resolved. I have a lot to offer the medical community and being a physician is all I want out of life.
I really do believe that I have a legitimate case to be allowed to repeat the year at my former institution (or at the very least, be allowed to leave with a 'withdrawn' instead of 'dismissed').
Caribbean schools are absolutely a last resort, but I feel like I need a plan B because I have no idea how this will turn out.
I'll apply to new and lower tier DO schools, but certainly temper my expectations.
I want to exhaust all of my options for becoming a physician and am willing to do whatever it takes.

And thanks again everybody that has been posting. This is the most difficult thing I've ever had to go through and it really helps to have a community of people that are willing to listen.


I'm not sure what I would do in your case, but please do NOT go to a carib school. I have one classmate (I am a first year DO student) who went to a "top 3" caribbean medical school for 1 year and left (not sure about the whole story, I just know he left) to try and get into a school in the states. He said it was terrible, like beyond imaginable. He said they didn't have real cadavers for gross anatomy, they just learned via software programs and books. WHAT? Don't waste 50k per year for that crap.

I know this isn't concrete, I'm sure many carib grads are great docs, but I worked with one when I was working as an ED tech (he was an SGU grad) and man was he the worst. Literally the worst physician I have ever seen. Lackluster in all his skills, didn't say much to patients, and I was scared every time I had to help him suture. Yikes.
 
I guess you could consider podiatry school. The standards were (are?) lower than for DO schools back when I applied.

Yeah, they do have lower standards and are still doctors, but I don't know if lower standards make things any better for me. My stats are competitive (if not above average) for DO schools. But if this dismissal sticks, it makes me wonder if any stateside medical (or podiatry) school will even consider me.
 
I'm not sure what I would do in your case, but please do NOT go to a carib school. I have one classmate (I am a first year DO student) who went to a "top 3" caribbean medical school for 1 year and left (not sure about the whole story, I just know he left) to try and get into a school in the states. He said it was terrible, like beyond imaginable. He said they didn't have real cadavers for gross anatomy, they just learned via software programs and books. WHAT? Don't waste 50k per year for that crap.

I know this isn't concrete, I'm sure many carib grads are great docs, but I worked with one when I was working as an ED tech (he was an SGU grad) and man was he the worst. Literally the worst physician I have ever seen. Lackluster in all his skills, didn't say much to patients, and I was scared every time I had to help him suture. Yikes.

Point taken. I just hope Caribbean doesn't turn out to be my only option. Would you seriously no even consider Caribbean if it were your only option?
 
I'm not sure what I would do in your case, but please do NOT go to a carib school. I have one classmate (I am a first year DO student) who went to a "top 3" caribbean medical school for 1 year and left (not sure about the whole story, I just know he left) to try and get into a school in the states..

Another very ignorable post. If "your friend" had any sort of clue what he was talking about, he would know that there is about a 0.005% chance of transferring med schools from the carib to the US. He is a ***** for thinking he could do it.
 
Let me pose this question to whomever may be reading:

What would you do if you were me? I am 100% confident in my ability to perform well above average in medical school, and am 100% confident that the issues I had this past semester are resolved. I have a lot to offer the medical community and being a physician is all I want out of life.
I really do believe that I have a legitimate case to be allowed to repeat the year at my former institution (or at the very least, be allowed to leave with a 'withdrawn' instead of 'dismissed').
Caribbean schools are absolutely a last resort, but I feel like I need a plan B because I have no idea how this will turn out.
I'll apply to new and lower tier DO schools, but certainly temper my expectations.
I want to exhaust all of my options for becoming a physician and am willing to do whatever it takes.

And thanks again everybody that has been posting. This is the most difficult thing I've ever had to go through and it really helps to have a community of people that are willing to listen.


Look I dont know. If I were in those shoes I would apply to every DO school in the country + SGU/Ross in the carib. I would expect to get a few interviews but still have the carib schools in mind.

You SHOULD be allowed to repeat the year at your school. I am just here to be realistic. They wont let you. Thats just how it is.

I would also at least consider podiatry school. Youd still be a doctor if you went to pod school.


And you cant make ANY excuses for failing out when you interview.
You say that you failed out but you have figured out why, and have a better idea of how to handle the same type of stress in the future.

Admissions boards do not care about WHY you failed out....They want to know that you have changed/adapted and you wont fail out AGAIN....If that makes sense
 
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Point taken. I just hope Caribbean doesn't turn out to be my only option. Would you seriously no even consider Caribbean if it were your only option?

Ya, honestly I wouldn't even consider it. Have you thought about EMS at all? I was in EMS, and REALLY loved it. If I was in your position, I would probably get my paramedic, and then after a few years would get my PA. Good luck friend, in whatever you decide to do :)
 
Ya, honestly I wouldn't even consider it. Have you thought about EMS at all? I was in EMS, and REALLY loved it. If I was in your position, I would probably get my paramedic, and then after a few years would get my PA. Good luck friend, in whatever you decide to do :)


No. Getting into PA school is no easier than getting into medical school for someone who has failed out. It actually probably harder to get into PA schools in your shoes. PAs hate feeling inferior to doctors. They would loathe the fact that PA school is viable for your "plan B"

Also... EMS doesn't boost your resume as a re-applicant. It would be a great way to waste years of your life if you are dead set on being a doctor though.
 
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No. Getting into PA school is no easier than getting into medical school for someone who has failed out. It actually probably harder to get into PA schools in your shoes. PAs hate feeling inferior to doctors. They would loathe the fact that PA school is viable for your "plan B"

Also... EMS doesn't boost your resume as a re-applicant. It would be a great way to waste years of your life if you are dead set on being a doctor though.

Woah, pump the brakes. Just giving my opinion, no need to get fiesty. My point is that he can maybe do another career and reapply later, to whatever. This shows admissions committees that this person has been stable and can complete the work. Having a passion and doing something medical related shows them that you are still committed. You could do this through many avenues, not just EMS.

There are many paths OP can take, just giving my two cents.
 
Woah, pump the brakes. Just giving my opinion, no need to get fiesty. My point is that he can maybe do another career and reapply later, to whatever. This shows admissions committees that this person has been stable and can complete the work. Having a passion and doing something medical related shows them that you are still committed. You could do this through many avenues, not just EMS.

There are many paths OP can take, just giving my two cents.


Stability is the exact opposite thing that admission committees want to see from someone who just failed out.
 
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I don't like stability either, it sucks. Go crazy, OP ;)
 
I agree with the above post - really evaluate if this is what you want. It is a LONG road for any med student, but you also have the added disadvantages of being academically dismissed, some chronic problems (IBS, learning disability), and thinking Caribbean now so you REALLY need to step your game up from the average student. You can't afford to just be an average student - you would have to prove yourself. Evaluate if this is realistic.... so if you do want to continue, you need to ensure you can study and perform in the face of pain/discomfort/whatever life throws at you. You will likely face similar circumstances or a different type of "perfect storm" (maybe death of loved one, need for surgery, vehicle accident) at some point during the rest of your life and you need to be able to perform. Period.

Many medical students have experienced situations similar to yours and still passed or even excelled. This is a necessary quality of physicians, regardless of the specific disease or stress. I had a friend who had frequent biliary colic from gallstones for ~1 month before surgery (needed to wait for right time to schedule), depression, anxiety, and there was a death in her family the 2nd year of medical school and she still excelled. Some students get pregnant and have babies (morning sickness, the last few months of pregnancy are killer for any woman, having to nurse and take care of that baby colic). Some students battle debilitating depression. Some have appendicitis. I think it was the right decision to dismiss after 4 failures but they should allow you to retry next year (in my opinion) but only if you prove you can pass every class regardless of what comes up in life. You can still study dermatomes while crapping your brains out on the toilet, don't let illness define your abilities because people often will not care. Some think it is ironic that the medical profession doesn't have much sympathy for illness; I think it is more an issue of the job being so demanding that you need to rise above it, or make room for another student who can.

Agree with this and j4pac's post.

Now, granted, I do think they should allow you to start over next year/have a go at it.

But OP, what happens if you get sick again? Part of dealing especially with a chronic illness like IBS is learning coping skills so that you are able to live the best life you can with the illness. That includes finding ways to work things out so you can still function, and part of that means reaching out for help at the absolute earliest opportunity when things start to go south (and making preventive plans beforehand, if possible). I don't know what you did or did not do to reach out to your school, I am just speaking in general.

It's possible to go through medical school with a chronic illness or even an acute flare-up. But the field is demanding and, "fair" or not, that means you have to be on top of your game even when you don't want to. I had a number of classmates face health challenges throughout the first two years and it did make things a lot harder for them. Doing "make-up work" while still trying to keep up with your current class, cutting back on ECs, skyping into class when they couldn't physically make it for one reason or another including illness... it's hard but in order to make it through you have to keep that dedication even when you feel horrible, it's just the way the field is. And if you can't, take an LOA - that is a proactive way of coping instead of letting yourself go down in flames. Again, I don't know what you did or did not do, this is general advice for your options if you are successfully reinstated and something comes up further into your education/career. FWIW, this is coming from someone who has a chronic illness and has had episodes throughout my life and had to work through them (whether to stay updated at school or not lose too much time on the job), with things really settling down in my second half of college. I am not trying to be harsh. I think being able to work through a severe illness flare is a skill set and I don't blame you for being unprepared, and also that is not always something that is going to be physically or mentally possible (hence the option of an LOA if needed) but just know they are going to expect you to push yourself even when you think you are at your limits and if you are able to start again, try to come up with a contingency plan/coping skills in advance so you can help yourself cope better in case you have an emergency situation happen again.
 
im gonna weigh in soon. i talked to some people at the school and heard lasers story. im just so damn tired that i cant post right now. Plus i owe him the first response by pm
 
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Another very ignorable post. If "your friend" had any sort of clue what he was talking about, he would know that there is about a 0.005% chance of transferring med schools from the carib to the US. He is a ***** for thinking he could do it.

I don't think they were talking about transferring, I think they were talking about just leaving, reapplying stateside and starting over. I met a few people who were doing this on my interview trail. I have no idea if they were successful, but the fact that they were at interviews probably means their chances were better than the people who try to straight up transfer from the Carib (by the way I know a guy who did this from SGU to a US MD school, but he really was like 1 in 600).
 
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So I talked to lasers, I also talked to some friends at the school and some students who I heard had somewhat similar situations. I'll keep my exact comments to lasers private, but let me use this as a teaching point. Nearly every single school has extensive systems in place to catch people who are having trouble. They also have numerous outs to say "time out" and try over again in a semester or a year. Schools want, more than anything else, to not drop anyone (at least US schools) and their goal is to enroll 135 and graduate 135 on time, and if not all 135 in 4 flat years, then as many as possible in 4 years and the few stragglers in 5, with zero dismissed. TouroCOM-NY specifically has NUMEROUS programs in effect to find those in trouble and get them both educaitonal and emotion support as well as offer them outs to "erase" the year and try over. Outs that you are told to ask about early if you have an issue.

But be known that if you try to rough it out, say that your hardcore enough, say you can do it.... and you dont. There will be little to no sympathy. There is an extensive legacy in medical schools (and I mean legal legacy) of schools winning any challenge made against them of unfair dismissal. The courts have made it quite clear that the normal leniancy given to those who have acute or chronic stressors in their life do NOT apply to medical students. You have a chronic illness? Perform despite it. you have a learning disability? Perform despite it. You have social stressors? Perform despite it. The courts have repeatedly said that physicians (and thus medical students) are expected to perform at high levels regardless of what sort of duress they are under and that a school that identifies someone that cant perform is justified to dismiss them even if the person claims unusual duress, as the school as the duty to identify and prune out people who cant perform well for their patients under duress.

No one said med school was fair. The take away point I said to lasers was that after talking with him, talking with some current students, and talking with a connection or two I have at the front office still (theyre low down the food chain haha. I dont have an in with the big guys any more) I feel that he cannot cut it and should look at this as a blessing to re-organize his life before he ends up more in debt. And he also should not try to re-apply elsewhere since I think odds of failure are higher than odds of success. I dont sugar coat this stuff. I know plenty of people who went through worse things, made the sacrifices, and scored well and succeeded in the same school. One is (nearly) his/her classmate so the curriculum is quite similar.
 
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Agree with this and j4pac's post.

Now, granted, I do think they should allow you to start over next year/have a go at it.

But OP, what happens if you get sick again? Part of dealing especially with a chronic illness like IBS is learning coping skills so that you are able to live the best life you can with the illness. That includes finding ways to work things out so you can still function, and part of that means reaching out for help at the absolute earliest opportunity when things start to go south (and making preventive plans beforehand, if possible). I don't know what you did or did not do to reach out to your school, I am just speaking in general.

It's possible to go through medical school with a chronic illness or even an acute flare-up. But the field is demanding and, "fair" or not, that means you have to be on top of your game even when you don't want to. I had a number of classmates face health challenges throughout the first two years and it did make things a lot harder for them. Doing "make-up work" while still trying to keep up with your current class, cutting back on ECs, skyping into class when they couldn't physically make it for one reason or another including illness... it's hard but in order to make it through you have to keep that dedication even when you feel horrible, it's just the way the field is. And if you can't, take an LOA - that is a proactive way of coping instead of letting yourself go down in flames. Again, I don't know what you did or did not do, this is general advice for your options if you are successfully reinstated and something comes up further into your education/career. FWIW, this is coming from someone who has a chronic illness and has had episodes throughout my life and had to work through them (whether to stay updated at school or not lose too much time on the job), with things really settling down in my second half of college. I am not trying to be harsh. I think being able to work through a severe illness flare is a skill set and I don't blame you for being unprepared, and also that is not always something that is going to be physically or mentally possible (hence the option of an LOA if needed) but just know they are going to expect you to push yourself even when you think you are at your limits and if you are able to start again, try to come up with a contingency plan/coping skills in advance so you can help yourself cope better in case you have an emergency situation happen again.

I understand your point and, truthfully, it was a surprise and I was unprepared to deal with the illnesses I encountered this past term. There was really no way to foresee my circumstances. But I think the crux of the issue is that the illnesses did not happen in isolation. I think focusing only on illness and coping is taking much too simplistic view of my situation, and this why I think the admin at my school are being so unforgiving. Perhaps I should have emphasized it more in my explanation at the beginning of my post, but the conditions in which I arrived in the new city for med school played a huge role in why my illnesses were such a significant setback.

Now, I hate to go on making excuses, because I'll be the first to acknowledge that everything that happened was the result of choices I made. However, I'll state again for the sake of thoroughness that I was accepted three weeks before classes started and was living 3,000+ miles away, and had already reapplied for the following cycle. I cannot attest to other peoples experience in the weeks/months before med school, but mine was a total s***show. I asked for deferred acceptance and was denied, so how could I pass up my only acceptance. I put in my two weeks to train my replacement scribe, packed up my life into my car and arrived in the new city the day before orientation...without a place to live. Why didn't I make the preparations beforehand? No time, literally. Why did I take the acceptance if I had any doubt whatsoever if it would be logistically possible? Good question. I almost didn't take the acceptance, but there was that little voice telling me that you don't pass up an acceptance if it was the only one you got. I had to make it work.

This new city I moved to just happens to be a nightmare of a place to find an apartment, and it took me eight weeks to sign a lease. Now it was during that eight weeks that the first illness, kidney stones, took place. Since I was already juggling school and lodging, an illness was the icing on the cake. Does anybody really think that I just didn't study or gave up after I got out of the hospital? Of course I studied. As much as I possibly could while on pain meds and still looking for an apt. I got so far behind during during the first 2-3 months, but I never gave up and I only worked harder. I approached my dean and the professors in the class that was giving me the most trouble (anatomy). While they were sympathetic to my plight, there wasn't much they could do except for tell me to concentrate on learning objectives and try to catch up. I was living a nightmare, but what could I do.

To be clear, I really believe that mental fortitude wasn't an issue, i.e. I can handle the stress, I can handle the illness. There just wasn't enough time. In hindsight, perhaps an LOA would have been a option, but it really didn't cross my mind and it wasn't presented as an option by admin.

Then, of course, during finals I start sh***ing blood and go to the doctor, who tells me I need a colonoscopy to rule out colorectal cancer. Perfect. Here is where I made the worst decision. I should have gone to admin, told them my issue, and gotten medical leave or an extension on finals. But I didn't. I scheduled the colonoscopy for after finals and did my best to power through.

I know what this all sounds like. Excuse after excuse, after excuse, ad nauseam. I hate writing it as much as you hate reading it. It's one of those "if only you knew me" type of situations. If only admin knew that I'm not the type of person to complain, if only admin knew I probably put in more hours studying than most of my classmate, if only admin knew that I never gave up no matter how desperate my situation looked, etc., etc.

I don't want pity, special treatment, or anything like that. All that I am, and have been asking my deans for is to say "Hey, this person sacrificed everything to be here, gave it a good go, but got f'd in the a at every turn (I mean, they have the gosh darn documentation to prove it), let's give them another shot and see what's what." But I can't get anybody to return my emails or calls. I spoke with the dean of student affairs at the outset of this week, and when I told her about the grading error and that I likely didn't fail one of the classes that my transcript says (oh yeah, there was a grading error), she said it was, "too late for that." By the by, the day I got out of the hospital for the kidney stones, I went to the student affairs dean to give her my hospital excuse and now she claims that I never gave it to her and won't accept it now (I went back to the ER and they reprinted my documentation). Not a big deal? I got docked 10% for exams that I missed while in the hospital. But they won't tell me which ones and nobody at the school will meet with me to discuss it.

Longest response ever. I know what most people are going to think or say when (I mean, if) they read this monstrosity. Coping this, are you sure you can handle being a doctor why don't you go to nursing or PA school that. I would probably be thinking/saying the same thing. But now that I've lived this nightmare (am living it), I realize that things aren't always as black and white as they seem. I will listen much more carefully to people, and be more understand and sympathetic to peoples hardships. This might actually make me a better physician.

Welp, I'm off to my condo in the Caribbean to take a break. Does anyone want to buy my timeshare on Dominica? I hear it's beautiful this time of year.
 
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I know someone who went through TouroCOM who were accepted *after* orientation. Were already in Grenada and got on a plane and flew to NYC the next day after they got the acceptance email. They are a surgeon right now and kicked butt first semester despite living on people's couches for the first month of school.

Know of two people who are actively being treated for cancer diagnosed early in medical school. Both missed a lot of classes, but they watched the elctures from their beds as they recovered. and lost hair. and gained fortitude. but they were at every test and one was consistently outscoring me while the other, well, they're from a different class from me, but they did well.

Fair or unfair, right or wrong, the culture of medical schools is you either succeed no matter the circumstances, or you dont. Not reaching out when you had a chance is a irreversible error you have to live with. and its a problem not because you let your illness cause you to fail... but because your hubris made it so you'll never know if you would have failed regardless of illness.
 
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1) Nobody can ever foresee these things. But that's the point - no matter what is thrown at you, as a medical student you have to adapt (or get the necessary help otherwise it is an irreversible error on your part). Succeed or make way for those who can.

2) If you study as much as you claim, it obviously wasn't very effective studying. Even with illness, if you put in that much work you should see results (passing all classes) - many students who don't have any health/life problems during 1st semester work their butts off and still fail. I think the academic success issue goes much deeper. Many MS1 do not have the study skills necessary to succeed. Maybe you would have failed regardless of your illness. You may claim prior academic success, but medical school is completely different than any other kind of education you've had up to this point so you can't say with certainty it was just the illness/stress/learning disorder that caused this.

3) You are asking for special treatment. There are probably hundreds of students with similar stories to yours throughout the past few year/decades. If you don't seek services to help and fail by a large margin, the damage has been done. They probably followed a logical, pre-determined algorithm and only had the "hearing" to make sure they had all the facts. To deviate from that algorithm for your unique circumstances is special treatment.

4) You don't have to live this nightmare. You yourself are actually forcing yourself to live it. Your school has already made its decision crystal clear, and they will not communicate with your further. To them, you will get as much time from them as a random grandmother off the street (you don't go there anymore - there is nothing they will/can do for you - stop acting like they owe you a response because they really don't).

You are probably in a significant state of denial (stages of grief aren't exclusive to non-medical individuals). Take some time, grieve, reflect, analyze, talk with loved ones, re-evaluate goals, and move on from there. Don't just keep charging full steam into this process - it will show a lack of introspection in any future applications you submit.

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OP: It's water under the bridge. Take a break before you make any important decisions. Best of luck in your future endeavors.
 
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I have plenty of respect for DocEspana, and I certainly don't disagree with most of what he said. I know people who struggled much more than OP first year, yet still managed to do better than the average, let alone pass all their courses.

That said, I still think OP should have been given an opportunity to repeat the year. It's completely at the discretion of the school, and they absolutely have every right to dismiss OP, but still. Maybe knowing all the details, I might feel differently, but remediation and year repeat policies exist for a reason, and I've seen lots of people given that opportunity when their excuses were immaturity and laziness and not a real health issue.

Every year, a few people at my school have to repeat 1st year. I have watched people get sent to the post-bac program after failing anatomy or 1st semester. They slacked off at first, and if they didn't fix it, they fail a post-bac course or don't finish with a 3.0 and they don't come back. If they get themselves on track they continue in the next class. So far those people do fine. Some people need that initial wakeup call, and I honestly don't think we end up with worse doctors because of it.

Anyways that's just my opinion.

OP: It's water under the bridge. Take a break before you make any important decisions. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

This right here is the best advice. Obviously, I recommend trying to see if repeating the year is an option, but it likely isn't.

OP, you really need to evaluate things before anything else. Take a break and get yourself back together. I posted Bones's thread for a reason. I wouldn't reapply until you prove to adcoms and more importantly yourself that you can handle medical school (if that's what you want in the end). Master the courses you failed. Master advanced science courses. Show that you can be academically successful, now (as of right now you have a steeply downward trend in academic performance). Think about what you want to do, fix it, and if you decide you want medicine come back and try applying.
 
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And right here is the crux of the problem. We are allergic to poor choice making by our students. We are always there to help them, but they need to ask for help.


Then, of course, during finals I start sh***ing blood and go to the doctor, who tells me I need a colonoscopy to rule out colorectal cancer. Perfect. Here is where I made the worst decision. I should have gone to admin, told them my issue, and gotten medical leave or an extension on finals. But I didn't. I scheduled the colonoscopy for after finals and did my best to power through.

OP, I still think that you should try to get a LOA and repeat the year, but failing that, you gave it your best shot, but it wasn't good enough. Then time for Plan B. I'd physically block the door to prevent my child to going to the Carib too.
 
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OP, I still think that you should try to get a LOA and repeat the year, but failing that, you gave it your best shot, but it wasn't good enough. Then time for Plan B. I'd physically block the door to prevent my child to going to the Carib too.

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I understand your point and, truthfully, it was a surprise and I was unprepared to deal with the illnesses I encountered this past term. There was really no way to foresee my circumstances. But I think the crux of the issue is that the illnesses did not happen in isolation. I think focusing only on illness and coping is taking much too simplistic view of my situation, and this why I think the admin at my school are being so unforgiving. Perhaps I should have emphasized it more in my explanation at the beginning of my post, but the conditions in which I arrived in the new city for med school played a huge role in why my illnesses were such a significant setback.

Now, I hate to go on making excuses, because I'll be the first to acknowledge that everything that happened was the result of choices I made. However, I'll state again for the sake of thoroughness that I was accepted three weeks before classes started and was living 3,000+ miles away, and had already reapplied for the following cycle. I cannot attest to other peoples experience in the weeks/months before med school, but mine was a total s***show. I asked for deferred acceptance and was denied, so how could I pass up my only acceptance. I put in my two weeks to train my replacement scribe, packed up my life into my car and arrived in the new city the day before orientation...without a place to live. Why didn't I make the preparations beforehand? No time, literally. Why did I take the acceptance if I had any doubt whatsoever if it would be logistically possible? Good question. I almost didn't take the acceptance, but there was that little voice telling me that you don't pass up an acceptance if it was the only one you got. I had to make it work.

This new city I moved to just happens to be a nightmare of a place to find an apartment, and it took me eight weeks to sign a lease. Now it was during that eight weeks that the first illness, kidney stones, took place. Since I was already juggling school and lodging, an illness was the icing on the cake. Does anybody really think that I just didn't study or gave up after I got out of the hospital? Of course I studied. As much as I possibly could while on pain meds and still looking for an apt. I got so far behind during during the first 2-3 months, but I never gave up and I only worked harder. I approached my dean and the professors in the class that was giving me the most trouble (anatomy). While they were sympathetic to my plight, there wasn't much they could do except for tell me to concentrate on learning objectives and try to catch up. I was living a nightmare, but what could I do.

To be clear, I really believe that mental fortitude wasn't an issue, i.e. I can handle the stress, I can handle the illness. There just wasn't enough time. In hindsight, perhaps an LOA would have been a option, but it really didn't cross my mind and it wasn't presented as an option by admin.

Then, of course, during finals I start sh***ing blood and go to the doctor, who tells me I need a colonoscopy to rule out colorectal cancer. Perfect. Here is where I made the worst decision. I should have gone to admin, told them my issue, and gotten medical leave or an extension on finals. But I didn't. I scheduled the colonoscopy for after finals and did my best to power through.

I know what this all sounds like. Excuse after excuse, after excuse, ad nauseam. I hate writing it as much as you hate reading it. It's one of those "if only you knew me" type of situations. If only admin knew that I'm not the type of person to complain, if only admin knew I probably put in more hours studying than most of my classmate, if only admin knew that I never gave up no matter how desperate my situation looked, etc., etc.

I don't want pity, special treatment, or anything like that. All that I am, and have been asking my deans for is to say "Hey, this person sacrificed everything to be here, gave it a good go, but got f'd in the a at every turn (I mean, they have the gosh darn documentation to prove it), let's give them another shot and see what's what." But I can't get anybody to return my emails or calls. I spoke with the dean of student affairs at the outset of this week, and when I told her about the grading error and that I likely didn't fail one of the classes that my transcript says (oh yeah, there was a grading error), she said it was, "too late for that." By the by, the day I got out of the hospital for the kidney stones, I went to the student affairs dean to give her my hospital excuse and now she claims that I never gave it to her and won't accept it now (I went back to the ER and they reprinted my documentation). Not a big deal? I got docked 10% for exams that I missed while in the hospital. But they won't tell me which ones and nobody at the school will meet with me to discuss it.

Longest response ever. I know what most people are going to think or say when (I mean, if) they read this monstrosity. Coping this, are you sure you can handle being a doctor why don't you go to nursing or PA school that. I would probably be thinking/saying the same thing. But now that I've lived this nightmare (am living it), I realize that things aren't always as black and white as they seem. I will listen much more carefully to people, and be more understand and sympathetic to peoples hardships. This might actually make me a better physician.

Welp, I'm off to my condo in the Caribbean to take a break. Does anyone want to buy my timeshare on Dominica? I hear it's beautiful this time of year.

Regardless of what direction you choose make sure to learn from the experience. It is not impossible to get reaccepted to medical school elsewhere in the US after something like this but it is a time and labor intensive process. If you decide to go that route you need to expect it to take 2-3 years total. You need to do serious self reflection (which I am glad to see you are already doing) and come up with a plan to work on your weaknesses to ensure that it history does not repeat itself. I agree with the majority of the posters here that you should avoid the caribbean at all costs. It is worth the time investment to be reaccepted somewhere state-side both for match purposes and also for people in your position specifically the high attrition rates. Not everyone deserves a second chance but anyone can earn one if hard work and motivation are not an issue. I wish you luck.
 
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If OP doesn't mind matching in FM *anywhere* I think Caribbean is still a viable option.

It's not like SGU or Ross have 0% match rate.

Disclaimer: In my opinion, Carib should only be considered as a last "all or nothing" resort. But it's not THAT bad as you guys are making it sound. The key is to go to Carib with the lowest expectations of specialties and location for matching. That's all.
 
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If OP doesn't mind matching in FM *anywhere* I think Caribbean is still a viable option.

It's not like SGU or Ross have 0% match rate.

Disclaimer: In my opinion, Carib should only be considered as a last "all or nothing" resort. But it's not THAT bad as you guys are making it sound. The key is to go to Carib with the lowest expectations of specialties and location for matching. That's all.

The worry is that those that the rate of those that GO to the carib, then match, is about 33% or worse. The odds should predictably worsen over the course of 4 years, as the DO merger will give them further preference in ACGME residencies, and as schools open and enrollments increase-- yet residency slots are virtually stagnant. Therefore the squeeze would mostly be felt by IMGs. At 33% and dropping, it's a poor choice for most. It's worse than all or nothing. It's all (as in matching), or something. The something being massive, non dischargable debt.
 
The worry is that those that the rate of those that GO to the carib, then match, is about 33% or worse. The odds should predictably worsen over the course of 4 years, as the DO merger will give them further preference in ACGME residencies, and as schools open and enrollments increase-- yet residency slots are virtually stagnant. Therefore the squeeze would mostly be felt by IMGs. At 33% and dropping, it's a poor choice for most. It's worse than all or nothing. It's all (as in matching), or something. The something being massive, non dischargable debt.

Where did you get 33%?
 
Yes and no.

It definitely has a high co-occurrence with anxiety and other psych issues.

But at the same time, these people definitely are having abdominal pain, sh*ting their brains out, or constipated for weeks, or have episodes so bad they are incontinent. It's not like they are making up their symptoms or have volitional control of them.

Implying a false dichotomy between psychiatric and other physical illnesses...
 
Where did you get 33%?

The best match rates I've seen at these schools hover at 60%. But what that's not including is attrition within the schools themselves. My friends that go there report anywhere from 30-60% of those that first enroll dont even make it to match day. Overall, 33% is a rough estimate of those that enter a class, and those that exit successfully.
 
The best match rates I've seen at these schools hover at 60%. But what that's not including is attrition within the schools themselves. My friends that go there report anywhere from 30-60% of those that first enroll dont even make it to match day. Overall, 33% is a rough estimate of those that enter a class, and those that exit successfully.

But that's attrition. Match rate is based on those who match into a program divided by total number of residency applicants...
 
But that's attrition. Match rate is based on those who match into a program divided by total number of residency applicants...

What I wrote was: "The worry is that those that the rate of those that GO to the carib, then match, is about 33% or worse."

I never said the match rate was 33%. I said if you matriculate, the odds you end up a resident after you graduate is 33%.
 
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What I wrote was: "The worry is that those that the rate of those that GO to the carib, then match, is about 33% or worse."

I never said the match rate was 33%. I said if you matriculate, the odds you end up a resident after you graduate is 33%.

Where did you get the 33% though? By word of mouth?
 
There's an excel sheet / thread
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/md-vs-do-vs-caribbean-hard-facts-and-statistics.813819/

It's ~50% not 33% point being its abysmally low and likely to only get worse

Incorrect. That spreadsheet, while amazing, does not take into account attrition. Moreover, in the most recent NRMP data, there are schools in the caribbean that boast 60% match rates (though that still isnt good). I stand by33% as an approximation of the likelihood of going into a school in the caribbean and ending up with a residency (at least first year out of school).
 
Incorrect. That spreadsheet, while amazing, does not take into account attrition. Moreover, in the most recent NRMP data, there are schools in the caribbean that boast 60% match rates (though that still isnt good). I stand by33% as an approximation of the likelihood of going into a school in the caribbean and ending up with a residency (at least first year out of school).

Alright so your 33% is just a personal educated guess then.
 
Alright so your 33% is just a personal educated guess then.

Yes. The match rates are established, attrition isn't. At least not anywhere I've located. Which btw, is another reson to avoid the caribbean. You'd think a school with GOOD attrition rates would advertise them.
 
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Incorrect. That spreadsheet, while amazing, does not take into account attrition. Moreover, in the most recent NRMP data, there are schools in the caribbean that boast 60% match rates (though that still isnt good). I stand by33% as an approximation of the likelihood of going into a school in the caribbean and ending up with a residency (at least first year out of school).

I always assumed those low of numbers included attrition. You're right. They don't. That's scary. Editing the above post
 
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I failed four of seven courses (ugh, I hate even saying that), but not by huge margins. I did quite well on the second set of exams, but I think they only look at cumulative numbers. But I got a B or an A on at least one exam in each class I failed, which I was hoping they would take into account.

No, I haven't yet asked for that consideration. I sent my dean an email directly after my dismissal notice asking him to meet with me to discuss my options. No reply as of yet. I will look into that though. Thanks for the response, sb, I appreciate it.
Many medical schools at this time are moving to a fail more than one course in a semester and you are out mentality. The fact that you failed 4 course even by small margins would be an automatic dismissal in those schools. Medical complications during school should have been brought tomthe attention of student affairs immediately when they occur with requests for extensions of exams, etc. ....did you do that?
There are actually some schools that won't let those students who have medical issues and didnt pass remediations repeat the year. The reasoning is a legal one...what of that person turns out to be a poor doctor....and they let that person matriculate, then the school becomes liable.if you had medical problems and needed to retake quizzes and exams and didn't pass....then the issue is moot.
Just my two cents
 
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Amazingly, I just read through this whole thread. Such an expense of time and energy demands that I beat a dead horse and make a post. If I was in PewPew's shoes? I would be closing the door on this path and getting straight to work on the next one. In my entirely non-judgmental and friendly opinion, if you really wanted this path as intensely as you might think, you probably would have done things differently to make it work out better. I know from personal experience how difficult it is to give up something you have worked hard and long for, but sometimes that IS the best option. You close that door and you find another one open, several usually. At any rate, that is just my 2 pennies, good luck to you whatever you choose to do!
 
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Let me pose this question to whomever may be reading:

What would you do if you were me? I am 100% confident in my ability to perform well above average in medical school, and am 100% confident that the issues I had this past semester are resolved. I have a lot to offer the medical community and being a physician is all I want out of life.
I really do believe that I have a legitimate case to be allowed to repeat the year at my former institution (or at the very least, be allowed to leave with a 'withdrawn' instead of 'dismissed').
Caribbean schools are absolutely a last resort, but I feel like I need a plan B because I have no idea how this will turn out.
I'll apply to new and lower tier DO schools, but certainly temper my expectations.
I want to exhaust all of my options for becoming a physician and am willing to do whatever it takes.

And thanks again everybody that has been posting. This is the most difficult thing I've ever had to go through and it really helps to have a community of people that are willing to listen.


What I would do if i were you is do anything to achieve victory, which is matriculating in medical school.

You have the correct mindset in your confidence. i would say your plan A would be to convince your current school that this will not happen again and you will not fail again. I havent read the entire topic but it seems that youve already tried - if they keep listening i'd keep trying if i were you. formulate a well thought out plan of action to present to the school. Show them your passion about how hard you worked to this point

If this definitely doesnt work after youve done all you can, then you can at least try to ask them to change it from a withdrawal - I'd wager that would at least keep some doors easily open at other US schools.

If you acnnot even get it to be listed as withdrawaal, I'd send personal letters to a bunch of deans of all the reasonable medical schools in the country detailing the transgressions and asking if they'd consider your application.

If that fails, you can always get a masters or PhD, reapply to medical school (idk im just throwing out ideas now)

Finally, there are foreign options. it doesnt have to be just carrb either - I think ireland and canada have some good programs that allow for US clinical rotations/US residencies are welcoming to those. not sure though . you'll have to research.

If medicine is what you really want to do I think you should do whatever it takes. you should check out a thread by DrBones (i think that was his username - it's named after the star trek character). DrBones is a straight up badass SDNer who had some troubles in the beginning of medical school, got dismissed, and then clawed his way back into the game (i read his whole thread where he chronicled the whole thing). dude never surrendered

it sucks that they'd be willing to chuck people out so quickly wtf
 
What I would do if i were you is do anything to achieve victory, which is matriculating in medical school.

You have the correct mindset in your confidence. i would say your plan A would be to convince your current school that this will not happen again and you will not fail again. I havent read the entire topic but it seems that youve already tried - if they keep listening i'd keep trying if i were you. formulate a well thought out plan of action to present to the school. Show them your passion about how hard you worked to this point

If this definitely doesnt work after youve done all you can, then you can at least try to ask them to change it from a withdrawal - I'd wager that would at least keep some doors easily open at other US schools.

If you acnnot even get it to be listed as withdrawaal, I'd send personal letters to a bunch of deans of all the reasonable medical schools in the country detailing the transgressions and asking if they'd consider your application.

If that fails, you can always get a masters or PhD, reapply to medical school (idk im just throwing out ideas now)

Finally, there are foreign options. it doesnt have to be just carrb either - I think ireland and canada have some good programs that allow for US clinical rotations/US residencies are welcoming to those. not sure though . you'll have to research.

If medicine is what you really want to do I think you should do whatever it takes. you should check out a thread by DrBones (i think that was his username - it's named after the star trek character). DrBones is a straight up badass SDNer who had some troubles in the beginning of medical school, got dismissed, and then clawed his way back into the game (i read his whole thread where he chronicled the whole thing). dude never surrendered

it sucks that they'd be willing to chuck people out so quickly wtf

Hey thanks for your thoughtful response Chasm. I am currently preparing applications to low-tier DO schools, and I like your idea about sending the letters to the deans of those schools. I'll definitely do that.

I'm still working on trying to get back in with my former school, but they are still rather unresponsive. However, my former classmates have expressed their support and are considering a petition to the dean. We'll see what transpires though.

I'll also look into Canada and Ireland, or other foreign programs. My stats aren't bad and besides my red flags, I think I would stand a chance.

Thanks again!
 
Search "dismissal" or "failed out". There are probably 5 threads per year, maybe more, about people trying to appeal their way back in.

While I am sure there have been a few people successful at getting reinstated, I have never heard of an actual example.

EVERYONE always tries to cite medical illness, some learning disorder, depression, etc etc etc. it never works.

While I wish you the best of luck, you need to know that the odds of getting reinstated are pretty nonexistent.
This person is probably providing you the best advice here.

Getting reinstated, after being dismissed, is really hard.

I'd check out liberty, or whatever that Christian do school that everyone takes a dump on. that might be your only choice. good luck and let us know what happens. We want to see you in oms again.
 
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