Dismissed from Pharmacy school; Transfer? Any advice

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WEKS2010

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I joined a Pharmacy school that was in Pre-candidate status. Now it is Candidate.

Please, if I come off as whining or angry, please bear with me. I am at my lowest point of my life. I am facing $100,000 in loans - it is a private school.

After 2 years, and a GPA of 3.34, I was dismissed for failing. I got an F in my first pharmacotherapy class (went down with the flu, talked to the dean and he advised me to try it out anyway instead of moving the exam date forward. I am generally good academically, but this flu was just too hard on me. I failed and did a re-take which I passed). The second F was because of a rotation.

I was scheduled in a city that was 1.5 hours away. I called as required before going. I went very early and found it closed. The biggest mistake I made was to leave the place (it was out in a small town and a funny looking truck drove by making me think otherwise about sitting in my car in the lot). I did not return home, but followed directions to a nearby college to wait in the library - until the opening time on the door (0900am). I arrived at 07:30am, left for Library at 0745am.

Unfortunately, I got lost from the Library to the site. The way the streets are named is very confusing. I called the pharmacy several times with no response. Went back to google map, keeps giving me wrong direction. 1 hour later, I gave up and returned to the school. Once there, I called the pharmacy again and found the pharmacist who agreed to let me return the following day.

I went to school and talked to the Director: and not to whine, she straight away started blaming me for not calling te pharmacy, luckily, I had the records and showed her. Somehow, when I returned the following day, the pharmacist refused to let me finish the rotation. So I was awarded an F.


After that, I was told to appeal the grade, denied. Then dismissed. Told to re-apply for re-admission, was denied. On re-admission appeal, the committee was furnished with a misconduct record of things I had not even heard of.

We have a system where anyone can write a note on small cards complimenting or complaining about anything and anyone. So I had this list of complains from students, some faculty, apparently some emails even an allegation that I had illegally looked at someone's work.

I will admit I was furious. Here I was, Dean's list, even in the "looking at someone's work allegation" which was a compounding competition, I got a certificate for it. One was a quote that I had written previously (form my literature class) and was alleged to have been an inflammatory remark.

I found it hard to apologize and be humble, I still do. My problem is that if I apologize without knowing what it is, it is quite visible in my expression. It was more "What are they talking about?". I had requested not to appeal in person, but the dean insisted I had to. So I ended up shutting up and looking down.

My greatest weakness is that I did not bond with many faculty, especially in my second year. In the first, most were diversified and did not want students running to their offices for every little thing. I thrive in this environement where I have to do much of the work on my own - class work is my initiative. In the second year, students spent alot of their time in the offices. I was not part of it. It was not uncommon to go to school and find a date changed for the exam because a few students have plans. That was my second year - different faculty from first year. Suddenly, students who were doing verry badly in the first year were the best. Additionally, I had to work to stay afloat. It is a 3-year school, $40,000/year - with several additional expenses. Each quater (10 weeks) was anywhere between 16-19 credits; and i worked anywhere between 32-45 hours/week. I basically was from class to work. I did volunteer occasionally: but generally did not have time.

Dissapointed, I sought help from any source I thought of. Finally the Vice-president has granted me a hearing. I am not very positive about it. I am missing my 3rd month of APPE this February. I asked to go with a lawyer, they declined. In my previous hearings, the professor who gave me the F was laughing through out the hearing. I don't know how anyone cannot be upset about that.

I have gone on and asked other schools to admit me. I have sent my stuff to one in Kentucky.
But they want the dean to write a letter for my transfer there/dismissal terms.

My questions are:

1. Even though I feel there is bad-blood between me and some of my APPE/IPPE/pharmacy school faculty, how should I prepare for the Vice-President Hearing?

2. Is there a chance the dean will write a positive letter? Can I convince the other school that the letter will not be coming?

3. If all these fail, am consiredering legal options. I owe $100,000. What can I do?

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Thanks for your response. Was looking for any student who went through this and survived.
 
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Yeah your best bet is to talk to a lawyer. Don't wait
 
Thanks for your response. Was looking for any student who went through this and survived.

Honestly, although people do get dismissed from professional/graduate programs. It is uncommon and a very difficult thing to do. For one, it looks very bad on the school to have dropouts. Yes, schools often say 2 Ds and 1 F and you are automatically kicked out. Yes, that is true but there are appeals and special circumstances. Maybe that person was sick, suffered depression, etc. As long as that person fights for it and show the board he can change, that person has a chance of being reinstated. Schools don't want to dismiss students! It drops the metrics (CVS...lol) and their overall graduation rate. This affects their ranking and perception for future prospects. On top of that, they are losing tuition dollars and future alumni that are willing to donate to the school. I'm saying this to let you know that your situation is uncommon. Unlikely you will find a student who was dismissed that is still lurking student doctor forums. Find an attorney STAT.

A good friend of mine was dismissed from optometry school TWICE and will now go on to graduate. He/she fought and fought and fought. He/she also had special circumstances too. Funny thing is he/she graduated in the same class he/she started with. If you end up with a settlement for 40 years pay of $120,000. Please give me 0.5% of that or enough to cover my student loans (whichever is greater). Thank you.
 
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Honestly, although people do get dismissed from professional/graduate programs. It is uncommon and a very difficult thing to do. For one, it looks very bad on the school to have dropouts. Yes, schools often say 2 Ds and 1 F and you are automatically kicked out. Yes, that is true but there are appeals and special circumstances. Maybe that person was sick, suffered depression, etc. As long as that person fights for it and show the board he can change, that person has a chance of being reinstated. Schools don't want to dismiss students! It drops the metrics (CVS...lol) and their overall graduation rate. This affects their ranking and perception for future prospects. On top of that, they are losing tuition dollars and future alumni that are willing to donate to the school. I'm saying this to let you know that your situation is uncommon. Unlikely you will find a student who was dismissed that is still lurking student doctor forums. Find an attorney STAT.

A good friend of mine was dismissed from optometry school TWICE and will now go on to graduate. He/she fought and fought and fought. He/she also had special circumstances too. Funny thing is he/she graduated in the same class he/she started with. If you end up with a settlement for 40 years pay of $120,000. Please give me 0.5% of that or enough to cover my student loans (whichever is greater). Thank you.

Despite my angst, you put a smile on my face. I will remember you after that settlement.
 
Despite my angst, you put a smile on my face. I will remember you after that settlement.

I have no legal background what-so-ever. It was just my thoughts, but I hope it helped. Best of luck to you!
 
I have no legal background what-so-ever. It was just my thoughts, but I hope it helped. Best of luck to you!

Thanks. It helps to read any thoughts. Am in a dark hole…looking for the light. To think that I turned down two schools in familiar places because it was warmer here.

Did your friend get a lawyer or she/he just argued out both times. I planned to graduate with my class end of the year; Frankly speaking, I have learned something; and it is not a good lesson, nevertheless a lesson.

Am seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Talked to one today but he said he did not have much experience. Today I met with the President and Vice-President: they seemed to just say the same things "you did not try hard to find the place, you did not communicate". The president did not understand why I did not retake the class. But they were cool people.

I am also looking to transfer and have sent my application to another school; but the dean there wants my current dean to write a letter of my academic standing. Dont know what to do.
 
Thanks. It helps to read any thoughts. Am in a dark hole…looking for the light. To think that I turned down two schools in familiar places because it was warmer here.

Did your friend get a lawyer or she/he just argued out both times. I planned to graduate with my class end of the year; Frankly speaking, I have learned something; and it is not a good lesson, nevertheless a lesson.

Am seeing a lawyer tomorrow. Talked to one today but he said he did not have much experience. Today I met with the President and Vice-President: they seemed to just say the same things "you did not try hard to find the place, you did not communicate". The president did not understand why I did not retake the class. But they were cool people.

I am also looking to transfer and have sent my application to another school; but the dean there wants my current dean to write a letter of my academic standing. Dont know what to do.

My friend didn't have to find an attorney. Friend had a good relationship with one of board members. So although the board member was not part of decision making process of whether my friend would be expelled for good or not, he/she was was given good advice and guidance on things to show the board that my friend is worthy of readamittance. Regardless, going to the board twice on separate occasions years apart from each other is very stressful. I hope your meeting with the attorney goes well tomorrow!
 
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I cant seem to find the right attorney in my small town. All of them dont have experience defending a student in such cases. Who has an idea on what kind of attorney to look for?
 
Help needed here. The attorneys I get seem to think of federal law suits, racial undertones, etc.
 
Thankyou very much. May the good Lord bless your kind heart.

You have been very encouraging in this lousy situation.
I will contact him ASAP. 3 months behind my APPE starting this march.

I tried Jason Bach but the reviews made me run for the hills.

I pray this works. Looks promising.
 
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OP, I sent you a private message. I go to a school that had a student who went through something similar.
 
Did u find an attorney tet?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 
I got the one recommended by Rxgolfer. He asked to look at my records, and am waiting for him to respond. He also told me that being a private school (for profit), the only way to argue against them is using violation of contracts. Are you going to help raise the donation? My school knew they had me cornered with that: took away my loans and threw me to the dogs. Well, I plan on asking, and asking and pushing until the truth finally comes up - So help me God.

I asked the dean to write a letter to a new school I wanted to transfer to; he is yet to respond - the new school, already accredited has called to ask when he is sending the letter. That was 02/12/2014. My attorney told me to request their grading rubric for the rotation and course description….well, we did not have any organized rubric. Matter of fact, our rotation syllabi was adapted from a school in Texas.

This is a new program granted; but the lies? Do any of you have to sit in class an extra hour after finals to justify tuition?

Or critical thinking, a prof says: that answer is correct because the computer thought it fair…eeish.

By the way; my study friend quit in 2012 because she did not think she could make it. That is after spending $40,000. Another student failed the first medicinal chemistry class, left, applied in Connecticut and is now doing well. She never mentioned this one in the new application.

For me, it is way into the program. All didactic work done. Yes, they can accuse me for being maaad. And I am mad as hell. All prospective pharmacists should be mad when their proffesion is being reduced to mediocrity. Still mad.

Some profs think i will make a great pharmacist, some appreciate my international exposure, but then there are about 1,2,3 who think they were doing me a favor.

@rxgolfer - still trying the humble pie.
 
Also try and talk to any pharmacist/professors you have dealt with that you are on good terms with and ask them if they can write you a letter to the board/prospective schools vouching for you. Continue eating humble pie!
 
The Prof. I talked to reffered me to the dean. My preceptors were really good, but am not sure they will want to do it before talking to my IPPE director. I asked a preceptor for a chance to re-take the 40hour rotation and this was also a mis-conduct for talking to the preceptor "behind the back" of the IPPE director. Nevermind I am the one who told the Director about it; as in she did not find it out. And this is a preceptor I got along so well with; we planned a get together of my and his family at graduation. I think being a school that looks at profit, most are cautious of every action they take. Still waiting for decision.

Done with humble pie. You will read about it in Congress.
 
I joined a Pharmacy school that was in Pre-candidate status. Now it is Candidate.

Please, if I come off as whining or angry, please bear with me. I am at my lowest point of my life. I am facing $100,000 in loans - it is a private school.

After 2 years, and a GPA of 3.34, I was dismissed for failing. I got an F in my first pharmacotherapy class (went down with the flu, talked to the dean and he advised me to try it out anyway instead of moving the exam date forward. I am generally good academically, but this flu was just too hard on me. I failed and did a re-take which I passed). The second F was because of a rotation.

I was scheduled in a city that was 1.5 hours away. I called as required before going. I went very early and found it closed. The biggest mistake I made was to leave the place (it was out in a small town and a funny looking truck drove by making me think otherwise about sitting in my car in the lot). I did not return home, but followed directions to a nearby college to wait in the library - until the opening time on the door (0900am). I arrived at 07:30am, left for Library at 0745am.

Unfortunately, I got lost from the Library to the site. The way the streets are named is very confusing. I called the pharmacy several times with no response. Went back to google map, keeps giving me wrong direction. 1 hour later, I gave up and returned to the school. Once there, I called the pharmacy again and found the pharmacist who agreed to let me return the following day.

I went to school and talked to the Director: and not to whine, she straight away started blaming me for not calling te pharmacy, luckily, I had the records and showed her. Somehow, when I returned the following day, the pharmacist refused to let me finish the rotation. So I was awarded an F.


After that, I was told to appeal the grade, denied. Then dismissed. Told to re-apply for re-admission, was denied. On re-admission appeal, the committee was furnished with a misconduct record of things I had not even heard of.

We have a system where anyone can write a note on small cards complimenting or complaining about anything and anyone. So I had this list of complains from students, some faculty, apparently some emails even an allegation that I had illegally looked at someone's work.

I will admit I was furious. Here I was, Dean's list, even in the "looking at someone's work allegation" which was a compounding competition, I got a certificate for it. One was a quote that I had written previously (form my literature class) and was alleged to have been an inflammatory remark.

I found it hard to apologize and be humble, I still do. My problem is that if I apologize without knowing what it is, it is quite visible in my expression. It was more "What are they talking about?". I had requested not to appeal in person, but the dean insisted I had to. So I ended up shutting up and looking down.

My greatest weakness is that I did not bond with many faculty, especially in my second year. In the first, most were diversified and did not want students running to their offices for every little thing. I thrive in this environement where I have to do much of the work on my own - class work is my initiative. In the second year, students spent alot of their time in the offices. I was not part of it. It was not uncommon to go to school and find a date changed for the exam because a few students have plans. That was my second year - different faculty from first year. Suddenly, students who were doing verry badly in the first year were the best. Additionally, I had to work to stay afloat. It is a 3-year school, $40,000/year - with several additional expenses. Each quater (10 weeks) was anywhere between 16-19 credits; and i worked anywhere between 32-45 hours/week. I basically was from class to work. I did volunteer occasionally: but generally did not have time.

Dissapointed, I sought help from any source I thought of. Finally the Vice-president has granted me a hearing. I am not very positive about it. I am missing my 3rd month of APPE this February. I asked to go with a lawyer, they declined. In my previous hearings, the professor who gave me the F was laughing through out the hearing. I don't know how anyone cannot be upset about that.

I have gone on and asked other schools to admit me. I have sent my stuff to one in Kentucky.
But they want the dean to write a letter for my transfer there/dismissal terms.

My questions are:

1. Even though I feel there is bad-blood between me and some of my APPE/IPPE/pharmacy school faculty, how should I prepare for the Vice-President Hearing?

2. Is there a chance the dean will write a positive letter? Can I convince the other school that the letter will not be coming?

3. If all these fail, am consiredering legal options. I owe $100,000. What can I do?
What school
 
South college in Knoxville, Tn.
 
So noneof you are helping me? Dang! So much for "helping people" essays during admission. Ok. Thanks for the donations.
 
1) That's not how you ask for help.
2) We like to help people, but we don't give handouts.
3) Most of us have $200k+ in loans, we're broke
4) Maybe if you took out more loans, instead of trying to work so much, you wouldn't be in this situation
5) Take some responsibility, you're the one that decided to not show up on the first day. No GPS? Couldn't stop at a store/ gas station to ask for directions? After an hour you just gave up? You're supposed to be at rotations for 8 hours per day. Should've tried harder for longer.

I hope everything works out but don't be ungrateful because you didn't get any money from us. People have helped you in other ways on this board.
 
My job was not only paying bills, but allowed me an awesome chance to know my role in healthcare, and where I most likely will excel.

As a chemist, I did that. I pursued chemistry in class and still formulated polymers in R & D. There is no better way of learning than doing it (to paraphrase Confucious). I really dont know how to just sit and go to school period: did that in elementary through high school; mostly because they were boarding schools too.

I learned from preceptors and in the field more than any of my academic classes gave. Lectures were very boring and un-inspiring. If I did not have to go to class daily, my GPA would have been towards perfect. We were forced to attend classes: mental exhaustion without absorption.

I would still do it that way @Vinny. Am counting on my preceptors to come through for me;

FYI, gps does not always function in some backyards of America.

Thanks for your input anywayz. No more donations. Next.
 
Alutta continua.

They will first fight you, insult you, disagree with you, agree with you and finally follow you.

I have found it. Thanks.
 
Has any of you ever heard about blocking a school from accreditation?

What is the procedure? Fraudlent presentation is the reason. I joined because the school lied about certain things to ACPE.

Any pointers?

I have 5 students backing the fraudlent presentation.
 
My experience was the same as you --- I was dismissed just before the graduation. But, I fight back and get back to the program and got my PhmarD in my hand! The best way to protect you is to fight back --- In my case, a prof. retaliated on me. What she did was against the school policy. I am in a process of negotiating with my previous school regarding the Complaints I filed against the Prof. So, I cannot disclose my case in detail now, but I am more happy to communicated with you individually. Plase sent an email to [email protected]. I more than happen to help anyone whose life were ruined by prof/administers at pharmacy schools.


I joined a Pharmacy school that was in Pre-candidate status. Now it is Candidate.

Please, if I come off as whining or angry, please bear with me. I am at my lowest point of my life. I am facing $100,000 in loans - it is a private school.

After 2 years, and a GPA of 3.34, I was dismissed for failing. I got an F in my first pharmacotherapy class (went down with the flu, talked to the dean and he advised me to try it out anyway instead of moving the exam date forward. I am generally good academically, but this flu was just too hard on me. I failed and did a re-take which I passed). The second F was because of a rotation.

I was scheduled in a city that was 1.5 hours away. I called as required before going. I went very early and found it closed. The biggest mistake I made was to leave the place (it was out in a small town and a funny looking truck drove by making me think otherwise about sitting in my car in the lot). I did not return home, but followed directions to a nearby college to wait in the library - until the opening time on the door (0900am). I arrived at 07:30am, left for Library at 0745am.

Unfortunately, I got lost from the Library to the site. The way the streets are named is very confusing. I called the pharmacy several times with no response. Went back to google map, keeps giving me wrong direction. 1 hour later, I gave up and returned to the school. Once there, I called the pharmacy again and found the pharmacist who agreed to let me return the following day.

I went to school and talked to the Director: and not to whine, she straight away started blaming me for not calling te pharmacy, luckily, I had the records and showed her. Somehow, when I returned the following day, the pharmacist refused to let me finish the rotation. So I was awarded an F.


After that, I was told to appeal the grade, denied. Then dismissed. Told to re-apply for re-admission, was denied. On re-admission appeal, the committee was furnished with a misconduct record of things I had not even heard of.

We have a system where anyone can write a note on small cards complimenting or complaining about anything and anyone. So I had this list of complains from students, some faculty, apparently some emails even an allegation that I had illegally looked at someone's work.

I will admit I was furious. Here I was, Dean's list, even in the "looking at someone's work allegation" which was a compounding competition, I got a certificate for it. One was a quote that I had written previously (form my literature class) and was alleged to have been an inflammatory remark.

I found it hard to apologize and be humble, I still do. My problem is that if I apologize without knowing what it is, it is quite visible in my expression. It was more "What are they talking about?". I had requested not to appeal in person, but the dean insisted I had to. So I ended up shutting up and looking down.

My greatest weakness is that I did not bond with many faculty, especially in my second year. In the first, most were diversified and did not want students running to their offices for every little thing. I thrive in this environement where I have to do much of the work on my own - class work is my initiative. In the second year, students spent alot of their time in the offices. I was not part of it. It was not uncommon to go to school and find a date changed for the exam because a few students have plans. That was my second year - different faculty from first year. Suddenly, students who were doing verry badly in the first year were the best. Additionally, I had to work to stay afloat. It is a 3-year school, $40,000/year - with several additional expenses. Each quater (10 weeks) was anywhere between 16-19 credits; and i worked anywhere between 32-45 hours/week. I basically was from class to work. I did volunteer occasionally: but generally did not have time.

Dissapointed, I sought help from any source I thought of. Finally the Vice-president has granted me a hearing. I am not very positive about it. I am missing my 3rd month of APPE this February. I asked to go with a lawyer, they declined. In my previous hearings, the professor who gave me the F was laughing through out the hearing. I don't know how anyone cannot be upset about that.

I have gone on and asked other schools to admit me. I have sent my stuff to one in Kentucky.
But they want the dean to write a letter for my transfer there/dismissal terms.

My questions are:

1. Even though I feel there is bad-blood between me and some of my APPE/IPPE/pharmacy school faculty, how should I prepare for the Vice-President Hearing?

2. Is there a chance the dean will write a positive letter? Can I convince the other school that the letter will not be coming?

3. If all these fail, am consiredering legal options. I owe $100,000. What can I do?
 
So did you graduate?
I am so sorry to hear. It seems like many school like to give their students a hard time.
I had a horrible experience with my school but nowhere as bad. (Actually take it back, felt just as bad at the time)
 
It appears as if you gave up on calling before the pharmacy was even open, so I'm not surprised that you couldn't get a hold of them.
 
Fact is the pharmacy was called at least 4 times on that day.
 
I joined a Pharmacy school that was in Pre-candidate status. Now it is Candidate.

Please, if I come off as whining or angry, please bear with me. I am at my lowest point of my life. I am facing $100,000 in loans - it is a private school.

After 2 years, and a GPA of 3.34, I was dismissed for failing. I got an F in my first pharmacotherapy class (went down with the flu, talked to the dean and he advised me to try it out anyway instead of moving the exam date forward. I am generally good academically, but this flu was just too hard on me. I failed and did a re-take which I passed). The second F was because of a rotation.

I was scheduled in a city that was 1.5 hours away. I called as required before going. I went very early and found it closed. The biggest mistake I made was to leave the place (it was out in a small town and a funny looking truck drove by making me think otherwise about sitting in my car in the lot). I did not return home, but followed directions to a nearby college to wait in the library - until the opening time on the door (0900am). I arrived at 07:30am, left for Library at 0745am.

Unfortunately, I got lost from the Library to the site. The way the streets are named is very confusing. I called the pharmacy several times with no response. Went back to google map, keeps giving me wrong direction. 1 hour later, I gave up and returned to the school. Once there, I called the pharmacy again and found the pharmacist who agreed to let me return the following day.

I went to school and talked to the Director: and not to whine, she straight away started blaming me for not calling te pharmacy, luckily, I had the records and showed her. Somehow, when I returned the following day, the pharmacist refused to let me finish the rotation. So I was awarded an F.


After that, I was told to appeal the grade, denied. Then dismissed. Told to re-apply for re-admission, was denied. On re-admission appeal, the committee was furnished with a misconduct record of things I had not even heard of.

We have a system where anyone can write a note on small cards complimenting or complaining about anything and anyone. So I had this list of complains from students, some faculty, apparently some emails even an allegation that I had illegally looked at someone's work.

I will admit I was furious. Here I was, Dean's list, even in the "looking at someone's work allegation" which was a compounding competition, I got a certificate for it. One was a quote that I had written previously (form my literature class) and was alleged to have been an inflammatory remark.

I found it hard to apologize and be humble, I still do. My problem is that if I apologize without knowing what it is, it is quite visible in my expression. It was more "What are they talking about?". I had requested not to appeal in person, but the dean insisted I had to. So I ended up shutting up and looking down.

My greatest weakness is that I did not bond with many faculty, especially in my second year. In the first, most were diversified and did not want students running to their offices for every little thing. I thrive in this environement where I have to do much of the work on my own - class work is my initiative. In the second year, students spent alot of their time in the offices. I was not part of it. It was not uncommon to go to school and find a date changed for the exam because a few students have plans. That was my second year - different faculty from first year. Suddenly, students who were doing verry badly in the first year were the best. Additionally, I had to work to stay afloat. It is a 3-year school, $40,000/year - with several additional expenses. Each quater (10 weeks) was anywhere between 16-19 credits; and i worked anywhere between 32-45 hours/week. I basically was from class to work. I did volunteer occasionally: but generally did not have time.

Dissapointed, I sought help from any source I thought of. Finally the Vice-president has granted me a hearing. I am not very positive about it. I am missing my 3rd month of APPE this February. I asked to go with a lawyer, they declined. In my previous hearings, the professor who gave me the F was laughing through out the hearing. I don't know how anyone cannot be upset about that.

I have gone on and asked other schools to admit me. I have sent my stuff to one in Kentucky.
But they want the dean to write a letter for my transfer there/dismissal terms.

My questions are:

1. Even though I feel there is bad-blood between me and some of my APPE/IPPE/pharmacy school faculty, how should I prepare for the Vice-President Hearing?

2. Is there a chance the dean will write a positive letter? Can I convince the other school that the letter will not be coming?

3. If all these fail, am consiredering legal options. I owe $100,000. What can I do?

It sounds like you have serious behavioral issues my friend. You need to learn to treat people the way you want to be treated. How would you not know an exam date got changed? You are required to go to every class.
 
It sounds like you have serious behavioral issues my friend. You need to learn to treat people the way you want to be treated. How would you not know an exam date got changed? You are required to go to every class.
 
Nonsense. I was there. I attended those classes and know what am talking about. Those exams got changed by few individuals going t offices. True proffesionals would make it a point communicating to all concerned as opposed to students reaching out to their friends. At like you are safe, wait till it hits you.
 
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