Dismissed from US med school, please help

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
R

remo84

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
'
Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Why didn't you take boards before you took the LOA? That probably would have avoided your dismissal, but hindsight is 20/20 I guess.

Basically, I am almost certain no school is going to let you transfer into 3rd year without a board score. You're looking at applying again to US schools and starting over as a first year if you want to stay in the US. With a dismissal on your record it will be tough to get an acceptance but it's possible.

If you want to take boards and then go into 3rd year the carribbean might be an option. You just need to find a place that will take you, which again will be difficult I would guess.

A 3rd option is legal action. In your case I would strongly consider it but thats just imo. None of your options sound great.
 
Wow this is a crazy situation. I would find a lawyer if I were you
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Yeah I found your story too. Protip dont read political sites, holy crap there is a lot of bigoted nonsense out there.
 
Yeah I'd bet a years tuition that this was due to your background and not step 1. Bummer.
 
You're famous on the internet. Maybe this will give you that chance to pursue homeopathic medicine like the LA times article said. Blessing in disguise thing? I don't know much about no fly lists, but its safe to assume that this will be an uphill battle...if you want something badly enough, you'll get it.
 
Is there something you're not telling us? This just seems a little whacky. Especially considering that if any medical school was considering expulsion they would have notified you, given you time to make changes, and at the very least involved you in committee meetings to decide this issue.

I'd talk to your Dean. I can't imagine your school doesn't have an appeals process for this sort of thing given the serious nature of medical school expulsion.
 
mdeast said:
Is there something you're not telling us? This just seems a little whacky. Especially considering that if any medical school was considering expulsion they would have notified you, given you time to make changes, and at the very least involved you in committee meetings to decide this issue.

I'd talk to your Dean. I can't imagine your school doesn't have an appeals process for this sort of thing given the serious nature of medical school expulsion.
Click to expand...

Definitely got the vibe op was leaving something out between Dean mailing info 48 hours before deadline and studying for 2+ weeks with no self initiated followup on details. Seems weird the Dean was backing you and without warning turns on you...
 
i thought it would be best if i took my step1 toward the end of my LOA so that the info would be fresh in my mind when i started my rotations.
 
remo84 said:
i thought it would be best if i took my step1 toward the end of my LOA so that the info would be fresh in my mind when i started my rotations.
Click to expand...
A few things. When did this happen? Please, contact your school immediately and find out about the appeals process and get that process started NOW. It is my understanding that every dismissal can be appealed. If, as you said, you were not having academic difficulties, conduct issues, etc. prior to your dismissal then you really do have a valid case. Having to start over or go to the Caribbean due to these circumstantial mishaps would be a really unfortunate outcome for you. It is important for you to not allow too much time to pass prior to filing the appeal. And yes, as others said, consult with an attorney to find out if you have a case. I know that you're shattered right now and when things happen that shatter us, we temporarily throw in the towel and sulk a little but in your situation, time is of the essence. Do not take this lying down. Fight for yourself and for your future. Go to your school as soon as possible and get the appeals process started. Good luck and I'm sorry that this happened to you.
 
How did you even pass the Verbal reasoning section of the mcat? You seem to be ESL.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
So uh this whole leave of absence thing has a very terrorist flavor to it from what I read alleged via google. Ergo the dismissal.
 
Last edited:
Textbookversion said:
So uh this whole leave of absence thing has a very terrorist flavor to it from what I read via google. Ergo the dismissal.
Click to expand...

I'm not a Muslim and the statement I'm about to make is not an attack on you or your opinion. But the guy is innocent until proven guilty. He should not be dismissed from medical school because he made a personal decision to be more devout. He should also not be dismissed because of suspicion. This impedes on his religious freedom. If this is the actual reason that he was dismissed, then he should fight it. They had no right. Assuming the limited information that he's provided for us is true, the school should have made an exception for him. There were obviously extenuating circumstances surrounding his need to extend his deadline. But that's just my opinion.
 
cher25 said:
I'm not a Muslim and the statement I'm about to make is not an attack on you or your opinion. But the guy is innocent until proven guilty. He should not be dismissed from medical school because he made a personal decision to be more devout. He should also not be dismissed because of suspicion. This impedes on his religious freedom. If this is the actual reason that he was dismissed, then he should fight it. They had no right. Assuming the limited information that he's provided for us is true, the school should have made an exception for him. There were obviously extenuating circumstances surrounding his need to extend his deadline. But that's just my opinion.
Click to expand...

It is his choice, but it may not have been a wise choice. Physicians have a high standard to uphold in society and even if his religious group is totally benign, the way it is perceived by others may still carry more weight. It's called managing your image. This is one of those examples in life where it really does not matter what is 100% just. If the objective is to be a US physician, then you need to play by the "rules." You can't always have it both ways.
 
startswithb said:
It is his choice, but it may not have been a wise choice. Physicians have a high standard to uphold in society and even if his religious group is totally benign, the way it is perceived by others may still carry more weight. It's called managing your image. This is one of those examples in life where it really does not matter what is 100% just. If the objective is to be a US physician, then you need to play by the "rules." You can't always have it both ways.
Click to expand...

Like being gay?
 
You should just go to med school in Indonesia or wherever it was where you went to spread the word of Islam, that way you can be closer to your people and won't have to deal with American politics
 
startswithb said:
I am not finding that an appropriate comparison.
Click to expand...

It is his choice, but it may not have been a wise choice. Physicians have a high standard to uphold in society and even if being gay is totally benign, the way it is perceived by others may still carry more weight. It's called managing your image. This is one of those examples in life where it really does not matter what is 100% just. If the objective is to be a US physician, then you need to play by the "rules." You can't always have it both ways.

Does that somehow not make sense to you?
 
Wow, it definitely sounds like there are some issues that are not out in the open. I didn't read all the news articles, but maybe the school is concerned about negative publicity. We had Muslim students in my medical school class, that is certainly not an issue. But, if there are concerns about extracurricular conduct reflecting negatively on the school that is hurting your cause. Maybe it is out of the Dean's control. Maybe alumni donors are complaining about something. Maybe the school doesn't want to accountable as a character reference in a big media/legal hoopla.

I doubt it would be a issue if you weren't taking a LOA. Like it or not, a LOA is a substantial red flag. Did your school discover you misrepresented your reasons for the LOA? That could cause the school to want to give you the boot.
 
qldman said:
You should just go to med school in Indonesia or wherever it was where you went to spread the word of Islam, that way you can be closer to your people and won't have to deal with American politics
Click to expand...

Stop it. OP is an American like you or I.
 
Also being gay isn't a choice.
 
First of all, neither is being muslim.

Second, it's the choice of whether to be open about being muslim and going on spiritual journeys. Not if you are muslim or not. Read the thread.
 
OP went to my school. I remember he sent an email to the entire school of medicine, all four classes with a CC to professors and administrators, containing a YouTube link about some religious B.S. pertaining to the Holy Koran. Apparently, the guy is a huge anti-government conspiracy theorist, and it's probably no surprise to anyone at our school that he got himself put on the no-fly list. Just providing some context. Who knows? OP could be a nice guy.
 
fiveoh said:
OP went to my school. I remember he sent an email to the entire school of medicine, all four classes with a CC to professors and administrators, containing a YouTube link about some religious B.S. pertaining to the Holy Koran. Apparently, the guy is a huge anti-government conspiracy theorist, and it's probably no surprise to anyone at our school that he got himself put on the no-fly list. Just providing some context. Who knows? OP could be a nice guy.
Click to expand...

Wow ok thats a pretty dumb and dickish thing to do. I dont care what religion you are just dont ask me to join it.
 
Wordead said:
First of all, neither is being muslim.
Click to expand...

What? Of course religion is a choice. It is not analogous in any way, shape or form to being gay. Stop.

More than that, it isn't his religion anyone has an issue with. It's his alleged contacts abroad with dangerous parties intent on using violence to spread their belief systems.
 
fiveoh said:
OP went to my school. I remember he sent an email to the entire school of medicine, all four classes with a CC to professors and administrators, containing a YouTube link about some religious B.S. pertaining to the Holy Koran. Apparently, the guy is a huge anti-government conspiracy theorist, and it's probably no surprise to anyone at our school that he got himself put on the no-fly list. Just providing some context. Who knows? OP could be a nice guy.
Click to expand...

Okay, it sounds like the OP offended a lot of people and showed poor judgment. This is not the type of person you want to send out on the wards to represent the medical school. I wonder what the timing of the mass email was.

I am not sure you have much recourse, OP. I am not really sure what your rights are, but I would think of a LOA as a privilege rather than a right. I think you have to convince the administration that you are motivated and prepared to reenter classes after a LOA. And getting an extension for step 1is one thing, but getting an extension while you are obviously preoccupied with inappropriate mass emails? Again, the extension would be a privilege, not a right.

I do have sympathy for you with regards to being detained. Assuming it was unprovoked, that is terrible. However, it can happen. The world is not actually free to travel without regard for regulations and scrutiny. I was harassed by some police officers when I was in medical school, it sucked.

It sounds like maybe this was not the right time for you to go to medical school, any way. Just a hunch.
 
fiveoh said:
OP went to my school. I remember he sent an email to the entire school of medicine, all four classes with a CC to professors and administrators, containing a YouTube link about some religious B.S. pertaining to the Holy Koran. Apparently, the guy is a huge anti-government conspiracy theorist, and it's probably no surprise to anyone at our school that he got himself put on the no-fly list. Just providing some context. Who knows? OP could be a nice guy.
Click to expand...

Oh.

Well that explains a lot.

OP, if the above statement is true, you have some 'splainin to do.

Also, LOL at the person who doesn't see the irony between telling someone to hide/change who they are because they are a devout Muslim (prior to this extremist e-mail accusation) and not someone who is homosexual.

Religion may be a choice to some, but in certain families it's so embedded in every day life that it really isn't.

OP - I think if you really sent some extremist teachings or whatever was in the youtube video to your entire class, it's still not grounds for dismissal, but I do get why the school did what they did. I still recommend you lawyer up and have the school outline exactly why you were dismissed. They won't mention it (because it's not grounds for immediate dismissal) but just missing a deadline after contacting your dean with extenuating circumstances doesn't seem fair.
 
evilbooyaa said:
Oh.

OP, if the above statement is true, you have some 'splainin to do.
Click to expand...

There should be no negative action taken toward a student for sharing a religious link, or any other non-extreme/illegal link for that matter. It is essentially the same thing as putting a flier around school advertising for an idea or Mosque/Temple or Bible Study or softball club. So what? The school is a community, and if any action was taken about a mass email (for which the student clearly had access to the list-serv), then it should have been a verbal/written warning, not used in any part in a decision for expulsion. I have had to put up with much weirder BS from my class emails than an odd religious email (boycott Columbus day, Christopher Columbus is a mass murderer and evil and so is America for glorifying him! Or emails with graphic pornography, or anti-Christian/antagonistic mass emails)... But Im not in school in Texas either.
 
Also, from the news articles it looks like this happened during the end of June. Back in my day, we took step 1in late May, or the first few weeks of June. And I think I remember that we had to register well in advance. So, you had a whole year off to refocus and motivate yourself and this is the result? I am not sure how you were planning on starting 3rd year on time even if the travel fiasco never happen.
 
StIGMA said:
There should be no negative action taken toward a student for sharing a religious link, or any other non-extreme/illegal link for that matter. It is essentially the same thing as putting a flier around school advertising for an idea or Mosque/Temple or Bible Study or softball club. So what? The school is a community, and if any action was taken about a mass email (for which the student clearly had access to the list-serv), then it should have been a verbal/written warning, not used in any part in a decision for expulsion. I have had to put up with much weirder BS from my class emails than an odd religious email (boycott Columbus day, Christopher Columbus is a mass murderer and evil and so is America for glorifying him! Or emails with graphic pornography, or anti-Christian/antagonistic mass emails)... But Im not in school in Texas either.
Click to expand...


...something tells me that that an email about his religion isnt the only reason this guy got kicked out.
 
I agree.

The side issue, apart from failing to take the Step 1 on time, is the possibility that the school was biased in their decision due to this student's religion. If they were, then they are potentially violating federal law.
 
StIGMA said:
I agree.

The side issue, apart from failing to take the Step 1 on time, is the possibility that the school was biased in their decision due to this student's religion. If they were, then they are potentially violating federal law.
Click to expand...

I agree with you on this, which is why I posted that he should get a lawyer. I guess he doesn't have to explain himself, although if he doesn't, I understand why the school wanted to dismiss him.

Also, pornography in a class-wide e-mail? That's more than what my school would likely put up with. Not a dismissal for the first offense but definitely a stern warning.
 
touchpause13 said:
Wow ok thats a pretty dumb and dickish thing to do. I dont care what religion you are just dont ask me to join it.
Click to expand...

Is it a dickish thing if I ask a friend if they want to come to my church or come to a scripture study? If they're not interested then they can let me know but I'm not a mind reader.

I agree that the OP spam emailing a religious video to all the student and faculty of a medical school is inappropriate. But talking about or sharing ones faith is not a crime nor is it dickish if done in an appropriate manner.

I just thought it was funny that you were going to bat for OP until you found out he is one of those scary religious people that likes to talk about what he believes. We all have our bias.
 
Well I feel just as bad for the Dean for having to deal with this, as I do for the OP for being detained in a cockroach infested cell for 2 weeks.

I guess that's why dean's make the big bucks, though.

I am not really sure if the OP should be readmitted, but the Dean's judgment is "innocent until proven guilty, " also.
 
Last edited:
Oo Cipher oO said:
Is it a dickish thing if I ask a friend if they want to come to my church or come to a scripture study? If they're not interested then they can let me know but I'm not a mind reader.

I agree that the OP spam emailing a religious video to all the student and faculty of a medical school is inappropriate. But talking about or sharing ones faith is not a crime nor is it dickish if done in an appropriate manner.

I just thought it was funny that you were going to bat for OP until you found out he is one of those scary religious people that likes to talk about what he believes. We all have our bias.
Click to expand...

I just dont like being pressured into believing one thing or another. It sounds like he was proselytizing, which is something I have very strong personal objections to. Theres a big difference between talking about beliefs with friends and sending out a campus wide email encouraging your own faith.
 
although i probably should have tried to take my step1 earlier, I had discussed with my school prior to my LOA the latest deadline to take my step1, and the associate dean told me it would be in the end of july, and that I could start my rotations a block late, and make up the missed rotation during 4th year -- the same option that students have even if they dont take a year LOA. I did want to come back earlier, but my situation abroad did not allow for that to happen and I was just trying to make good on the latest deadline the school permitted.

as for the mass email to the class. it was more about the history of embryology. our school uses texts written by Dr. Keith L Moore (clinically oriented anatomy), who is regarded as one of the worlds leaders in anatomy and embryology. The 1 minute youtube clip was merely Dr. Keith L Moore verifying the accuracy of the claims in the quran regarding embryology.
 
remo84 said:
although i probably should have tried to take my step1 earlier, I had discussed with my school prior to my LOA the latest deadline to take my step1, and the associate dean told me it would be in the end of july, and that I could start my rotations a block late, and make up the missed rotation during 4th year -- the same option that students have even if they dont take a year LOA. I did want to come back earlier, but my situation abroad did not allow for that to happen and I was just trying to make good on the latest deadline the school permitted.

as for the mass email to the class. it was more about the history of embryology. our school uses texts written by Dr. Keith L Moore (clinically oriented anatomy), who is regarded as one of the worlds leaders in anatomy and embryology. The 1 minute youtube clip was merely Dr. Keith L Moore verifying the accuracy of the claims in the quran regarding embryology.
Click to expand...

This sounds pretty harmless to me, albeit a moment of poor judgement.

With regards to being associated with certain religious groups, well, its religion. In any religion there are going to be nutjobs who ruin it for everyone else. Most Mormons I know are decent, everyday folks. However, if an eventual Mormon extremist attended the same summer Mormon camp as you, a regular Mormon, is your image tainted for life?

Islam and terrorism is constantly conflated and the eagerness to jump to conclusions is very apparent in our society. I say innocent until proven guilty. He's an American right?
 
remo84 said:
although i probably should have tried to take my step1 earlier, I had discussed with my school prior to my LOA the latest deadline to take my step1, and the associate dean told me it would be in the end of july, and that I could start my rotations a block late, and make up the missed rotation during 4th year -- the same option that students have even if they dont take a year LOA. I did want to come back earlier, but my situation abroad did not allow for that to happen and I was just trying to make good on the latest deadline the school permitted.

as for the mass email to the class. it was more about the history of embryology. our school uses texts written by Dr. Keith L Moore (clinically oriented anatomy), who is regarded as one of the worlds leaders in anatomy and embryology. The 1 minute youtube clip was merely Dr. Keith L Moore verifying the accuracy of the claims in the quran regarding embryology.
Click to expand...



Was all of this verbal? Or were you smart and made sure you kept some sort of paper(or email) trail? Most schools could give a **** about their students. I went to a pretty large public university for dental school and all they cared about was money and trying to **** their students over.
 
remo84 said:
although i probably should have tried to take my step1 earlier, I had discussed with my school prior to my LOA the latest deadline to take my step1, and the associate dean told me it would be in the end of july, and that I could start my rotations a block late, and make up the missed rotation during 4th year -- the same option that students have even if they dont take a year LOA. I did want to come back earlier, but my situation abroad did not allow for that to happen and I was just trying to make good on the latest deadline the school permitted.

as for the mass email to the class. it was more about the history of embryology. our school uses texts written by Dr. Keith L Moore (clinically oriented anatomy), who is regarded as one of the worlds leaders in anatomy and embryology. The 1 minute youtube clip was merely Dr. Keith L Moore verifying the accuracy of the claims in the quran regarding embryology.
Click to expand...

That's a link you can put on your facebook to share with you friends. COMPLETELY 100000000000000000% inappropriate to email to the entire class. My school would likely have put someone on probation for a stunt like that. It shows complete lack of professionalism, good judgement, and common sense. Gross misuse of your school email account and mailing list.
 
remo84 said:
as for the mass email to the class. it was more about the history of embryology. our school uses texts written by Dr. Keith L Moore (clinically oriented anatomy), who is regarded as one of the worlds leaders in anatomy and embryology. The 1 minute youtube clip was merely Dr. Keith L Moore verifying the accuracy of the claims in the quran regarding embryology.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a great thing to post on Twitter or Facebook. Or if you want to get people at school involved, go through the interest groups. Mass emails usually require a valid reason. Not that one unauthorized mass email is grounds for dismissal, in my eyes, but it sounds like there are a lot of little things going against you, and probably some more things we don't know about.

Only you know if you have a case, and if you want to fight it go ahead.

I personally wouldn't want to play the religion card, as other people suggested, but who knows, talk to some attorneys.

Best case scenario you get readmitted but your schooling is going to be further delayed and you will have some major distractions. You would take step 1 next year, I guess? And I would expect some stigma, possibly even continuing on in the match. Do you think you would be happy with any specialty? It sounds like it will be a tough road for a little while, good luck.
 
Textbookversion said:
That's a link you can put on your facebook to share with you friends. COMPLETELY 100000000000000000% inappropriate to email to the entire class. My school would likely have put someone on probation for a stunt like that. It shows complete lack of professionalism, good judgement, and common sense. Gross misuse of your school email account and mailing list.
Click to expand...

It really depends on the class. This would have been par for the course on my class mailing list (meaning reasonably normal and certainly within the bounds of what is considered appropriate).
 
BurghStudent said:
This sounds pretty harmless to me, albeit a moment of poor judgement.

With regards to being associated with certain religious groups, well, its religion. In any religion there are going to be nutjobs who ruin it for everyone else. Most Mormons I know are decent, everyday folks. However, if an eventual Mormon extremist attended the same summer Mormon camp as you, a regular Mormon, is your image tainted for life?

Islam and terrorism is constantly conflated and the eagerness to jump to conclusions is very apparent in our society. I say innocent until proven guilty. He's an American right?
Click to expand...

When mormon's strap bombs to each other, engage in civil wars to impose their values, fly planes into buildings, and are responsible for thousands of deaths a day we can chat. Until then... not really analogous. People come out of extremist islamic gatherings and do things like the boston bombing.

Coming out of a mormon summer camp you cut diet pepsi out of your life for jesus. Not comparable.

Mass emailing the class anything is probably against the rules. At my school you need prior approval from a dean in order to email the whole class. Mass emailing about a new club on campus, for example, is against the rules unless you got approval from the dean of students or someone comparable. That approval would of course be granted in that case.

The decision to mass email religious material... indefensible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I am not sure why my email is being referred to as religious material. It was a clip of Dr. Keith L Moore, the author of the book that my school uses to teach anatomy and embryology. Dr. Moore is not even a muslim. He was just talking about the information in the quran being accurate, and that it predates any modern science. I was just trying to shed some light on the history of what is being taught. the email was sent out right after the first years finished their anatomy and embryology block, back in october of last year. If the school faculty, who were also emailed, had any objection, they never made it known to me.
 
Last edited:
touchpause13 said:
Stop it. OP is an American like you or I.
Click to expand...

I'm not an American--- and what's wrong with that I said? If the dude is in Thailand or Indonesia he won't have to worry about taking time off to go on religion missions because he will already be in the area. I didn't mean it as an insult.
 
remo84 said:
I am not sure why my email is being referred to as religious material. It was a clip of Dr. Keith L Moore, the author of the book that my school uses to teach anatomy and embryology. Dr. Moore is not even a muslim. He was just talking about the information in the quran being accurate, and that it predates any modern science. I was just trying to shed some light on the history of what is being taught. the email was sent out right after the first years finished their anatomy and embryology block, back in october of last year. If the school faculty, who were also emailed, had any objection, they never made it known to me.
Click to expand...


Dude listen this is BS that they kicked you out for missing a deadline. Quit wasting your time on SDN. Obviously your activities has raised some unwanted attention and the school now doesn't want to be part of it.

Get a lawyer ASAP!
 
remo84 said:
I am not sure why my email is being referred to as religious material. It was a clip Dr. Keith L Moore, the author of the book that my school uses to teach anatomy and embryology. Dr. Moore is not even a muslim. He was just talking about the information in the quran being accurate, and that it predates any modern science. I was just trying to shed some light on the history of what is being taught. the email was sent out right after the first years finished their anatomy and embryology block.
Click to expand...

The commenets from Dr. Moore are controversial, at best. The main underlying message is that there is evidence of a divine revelation to Mohammad. (Not everyone believes that, sorry.)

Taking a year of personal LOA is not a small deal, because medical training is intended to be done straight through. I can't imagine your schools policy allows unconditional readmission after a personal year of LOA. Regardless of the reasons for your not being able to resume school the next year, why would the school be obliged to grant you additional LOA time?

All this other hoopla just makes you a less desirable and kept your school from bending over backwards to re-enroll you. Of course I am just guessing, I really don't know how the administration feels about the emails and the publicity or your preparedness to return to classes. Think about it: If you were applying to medical school with all this going on, do you think you would have been accepted in the first place?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

G
Dismissed from Program Due to Timing
Replies
30
Views
4K
Robin-jay
Robin-jay
D
I was admitted to a new school after being dismissed from my original school.
Replies
39
Views
9K
LeaveNoTrace
L
K
MD Dismissed from Medical School after 2nd year - Any recommendations?
Replies
12
Views
4K
operaman
O
futureapppsy2
Patient dismissed from primary care clinic for making anti-trans statements
Replies
48
Views
2K
LucidSplash
LucidSplash
T
  • Locked
I was dismissed and got into a new school, Pt. 2
Replies
10
Views
2K
GoSpursGo
GoSpursGo
Top