Dismissed MD Student

[Confused Post Med]

Hey so... fast forward 8 months since my last post...

in brief: I was dismissed from the first semester of a U.S. MD school because my parent died
then... last spring, i was dismissed from the first semester of a caribbean MD school because of academic issues from forcing myself to become class president when i should have focused on school... and also somehow managing to upset the administration there because of openly critiquing and trying to improve certain aspects of the program


so i actually got treatment for my presumed mental health condition... bipolar disorder
i received treatment for months
i was hospitalized
put on medication
and ultimately given a personal letter of support from my psychiatrist in favor of my reinstatement at this carribean school...

then i presented to them all of this information and they were unwilling to readmit me

my significant other goes to the carribean school

i really don't know what to do

i want nothing more to become a doctor

he wants the same for me

i am somehow living in the carribean with him now, without any way to continue my career and maintain our relationship which seems to be on track for leading to marriage.

can someone please provide me advise on how to become a doctor despite institutional insensitivity to my disability.

i don't want to end my relationship

if anything, i wouldn't have gotten this far in my recovery without him

all opinions, advice is welcome

also, he has come to terms with the idea of me not going back to school and eventually supporting me

but that is not a solution in my mind. id like to do something more

i don't know how to get back in to medicine at this point

and with geographic impediments

in terms of living in the carribean right now

thank you all

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[deleted480308]

With two dismissals you are likely never a doctor in America.

That does not have to have anything to do with a relationship though

 

[Mad Jack]

Hey so... fast forward 8 months since my last post...

in brief: I was dismissed from the first semester of a U.S. MD school because my parent died
then... last spring, i was dismissed from the first semester of a caribbean MD school because of academic issues from forcing myself to become class president when i should have focused on school... and also somehow managing to upset the administration there because they don't like people who openly try to improve things


so i actually got treatment for my presumed mental health condition... bipolar disorder
i received treatment for months
i was hospitalized
put on medication
and ultimately given a personal letter of support from my psychiatrist in favor of my reinstatement at this carribean school...

then i presented to them all of this information and they were unwilling to readmit me

my significant other goes to the carribean school

i really don't know what to do

i want nothing more to become a doctor

he wants the same for me

i am somehow living in the carribean with him now, without any way to continue my career and maintain our relationship which seems to be on track for leading to marriage.

can someone please provide me advise on how to become a doctor despite institutional insensitivity to my disability.

i don't want to end my relationship

if anything, i wouldn't have gotten this far in my recovery without him

all opinions, advice is welcome

also, he has come to terms with the idea of me not going back to school and eventually supporting me

but that is not a solution in my mind. id like to do something more

i don't know how to get back in to medicine at this point

and with geographic impediments

in terms of living in the carribean right now

thank you all

You have been dismissed twice. You have many excuses, but at the end of the day medicine is the most stressful career out there. You will have family die while you are practicing, you will go through breakups, you will have patients die. Your mental health condition required substantial treatment, and there is a very strong chance that you would break down again during the clinical years and/or residency. You need to recognize your limits, and work within them. Perhaps being a nurse practitioner or physician assistant might work better, but you will not become a physician in America with your current pattern of performance, and being admitted to another school would likely result in another mental health crisis down the line.

 

[Confused Post Med]

You have been dismissed twice. You have many excuses, but at the end of the day medicine is the most stressful career out there. You will have family die while you are practicing, you will go through breakups, you will have patients die. Your mental health condition required substantial treatment, and there is a very strong chance that you would break down again during the clinical years and/or residency. You need to recognize your limits, and work within them. Perhaps being a nurse practitioner or physician assistant might work better, but you will not become a physician in America with your current pattern of performance, and being admitted to another school would likely result in another mental health crisis down the line.

Do you have any insight on Optometry or Podiatry as they pertain to my situation?
Would either invite less or more stress?
Is the difference negligible?

 

[Crayola227]

I hear a lot of victimization and very little taking of responsibility in this post

I don't know that I would discourage someone with BPAD from pursuing becoming a physician initially, but eyes wide open, but roadblocks can happen and if you can't overcome them not once but twice....

more concerning to me than your diagnosis is how you are looking at this situation

I wish you the best overall, not sure what career you should pursue, although I think more than just getting your mental illness under control for better function, I think there is still more personal growth that needs to happen and hopefully will ideally

 

[Mad Jack]

Do you have any insight on Optometry or Podiatry as they pertain to my situation?
Would either invite less or more stress?
Is the difference negligible?

Optometry wouldn't be as bad but the job market is terrible.

Podiatry is a little easier but you're going to do an abbreviated surgical residency.

Can't comment on how easy either is compared to medical school in regard to mental health, I've only done the medical school thing and it damn near broke my brain before making me a much stronger, more resilient person. But like, if you can't make it over that hump it'll kill you.

 

[Crayola227]

when your dreams get crushed it can take a while to shift from a feeling of wholly being victimized to a more balanced view that accepts more personal responsibility, recognizes that some negatives in a situation were unavoidable on your part AND also the part of other parties, and what role everyone really played in all this

 

[Crayola227]

Optometry wouldn't be as bad but the job market is terrible.

Podiatry is a little easier but you're going to do an abbreviated surgical residency.

Can't comment on how easy either is compared to medical school in regard to mental health, I've only done the medical school thing and it damn near broke my brain before making me a much stronger, more resilient person. But like, if you can't make it over that hump it'll kill you.

even after the hump of school it still might :-/

 

[Mad Jack]

even after the hump of school it still might :-/

True, intern year slays

 

[Mad Jack]

Or every year in IM and surgery...

 

[Confused Post Med]

when your dreams get crushed it can take a while to shift from a feeling of wholly being victimized to a more balanced view that accepts more personal responsibility, recognizes that some negatives in a situation were unavoidable on your part AND also the part of other parties, and what role everyone really played in all this

lots of wisdom
thank you

 

[Crayola227]

True, intern year slays

yeah, ruination is a possibility for anyone in the medical career, it's not forgiving

most people end up fine, even those with significant burdens

 

[Crayola227]

lots of wisdom
thank you

thanks, I'm glad you were receptive to what I said.

Honestly, I said what I said because it's something I've been struggling with myself for many years now. It's a bit of the serenity prayer, in a way.

 

[Confused Post Med]

yeah, ruination is a possibility for anyone in the medical career, it's not forgiving

most people end up fine, even those with significant burdens

These statements are actually really helpful
Although... i still don't know what to do with my career path
my brain feels better

actually my heart and/or soul feels better

my brain always feels horrible

 

[Crayola227]

These statements are actually really helpful
Although... i still don't know what to do with my career path
my brain feels better

More than anything, you don't have to feel bad about what happened. You need to own as much of it as you can for personal growth, but it doesn't make you less than anything that this happened. Better to try and not succeed than never try at all. And what you tried to do is one of the hardest things ANYONE can EVER try to do - I can tell that if you made it into med school that you must have lots of positive qualities.

I am glad that your SO is being supportive. I hope that you can find a career path that fits your strengths, which I'm sure you have many.

As far as figuring out career path, I think the best thing to do is to figure out what you're really good at. Not necessarily what you enjoy most, but what you are actually good at, job skills wise. Then go from there.

I thought I would be an English teacher - then I discovered I was good at science from college required courses. I hated it in high school because I thought I wasn't good at it. Mastery and competence can breed enjoyment in a job.

I figured out that while I enjoyed English, teaching, writing, that I likely would have a hard time with employment and that maybe that wasn't what I was best at despite my enjoyment of it.

Then I literally looked at the Bureau of Labor Statistics to look at different job and that they required, and what the day is reported as actually being like.

I think this isn't a bad start.

You might take some aptitude tests as well as explore careers related to your current educational achievements, or consider what if any additional schooling might make you employable, successful, and you might enjoy.

Sometimes your alma mater university/college has a career advisor you can still access as an alumni.

 

[Goro]

Hey so... fast forward 8 months since my last post...

in brief: I was dismissed from the first semester of a U.S. MD school because my parent died
then... last spring, i was dismissed from the first semester of a caribbean MD school because of academic issues from forcing myself to become class president when i should have focused on school... and also somehow managing to upset the administration there because of openly critiquing and trying to improve certain aspects of the program


so i actually got treatment for my presumed mental health condition... bipolar disorder
i received treatment for months
i was hospitalized
put on medication
and ultimately given a personal letter of support from my psychiatrist in favor of my reinstatement at this carribean school...

then i presented to them all of this information and they were unwilling to readmit me

my significant other goes to the carribean school

i really don't know what to do

i want nothing more to become a doctor

he wants the same for me

i am somehow living in the carribean with him now, without any way to continue my career and maintain our relationship which seems to be on track for leading to marriage.

can someone please provide me advise on how to become a doctor despite institutional insensitivity to my disability.

i don't want to end my relationship

if anything, i wouldn't have gotten this far in my recovery without him

all opinions, advice is welcome

also, he has come to terms with the idea of me not going back to school and eventually supporting me

but that is not a solution in my mind. id like to do something more

i don't know how to get back in to medicine at this point

and with geographic impediments

in terms of living in the carribean right now

thank you all

Your medical career is over. Time for Plan B.

 

[flapjack3d]

I'm really sorry all this happened to you, but this didn't happen:

in brief: I was dismissed from the first semester of a U.S. MD school because my parent died

You should have asked for a leave of absence. Did you tell anyone in the administration that you were struggling before the end of the semester?

 

[Med Ed]

in brief: I was dismissed from the first semester of a U.S. MD school because my parent died

Yeah, no.

 

[Med Ed]

You should have asked for a leave of absence. Did you tell anyone in the administration that you were struggling before the end of the semester?

Dismissing a medical student is a process, and it's fairly unusual for a student in trouble not to be given a chance to repeat the year. I am guessing the OP was offered a pathway to redemption and she decided not to take it.

 

[DBV]

Yeah, no.

Hahaha sorry about your dad but anyhoo there's the door

 

[Crayola227]

Totally unnecessary. There's a kind way to tell someone to take responsibility, move on, grow, find work, and be happy.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Others have already commented on the state of your medical career, but I am genuinely curious what the relationship has to do with all this. You said you want to stay with him and he’s going to support you, yet you feel that to do that you need to actually be living with him in the Caribbean? Would he not be supportive of you if you moved back to the United States and pursued a PA, NP, or some other path? He’s okay with you if you stay at home, but you’re worried he may not be if you live separately for a while? Is that why you said “I don’t want to end my relationship?” That doesn’t sound like a very good relationship, to be honest.


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[Confused Post Med]

Others have already commented on the state of your medical career, but I am genuinely curious what the relationship has to do with all this. You said you want to stay with him and he’s going to support you, yet you feel that to do that you need to actually be living with him in the Caribbean? Would he not be supportive of you if you moved back to the United States and pursued a PA, NP, or some other path? He’s okay with you if you stay at home, but you’re worried he may not be if you live separately for a while? Is that why you said “I don’t want to end my relationship?” That doesn’t sound like a very good relationship, to be honest.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

pretty much... he really wants me to be physically with him, rather than long distance, and i prefer the same

 

[Crayola227]

To be fair, to plan to not to even live on the same landmass for up to 2 years or more long distance, is a big deal.

It doesn't mean this isn't a good relationship if it's not ready for that now.

However you need to be careful how much you compromise future career for a relationship that... even if he's perfect, there's always lightning and bus accidents.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

To be fair, to plan to not to even live on the same landmass for up to 2 years or more long distance, is a big deal.

It doesn't mean this isn't a good relationship if it's not ready for that now.

However you need to be careful how much you compromise future career for a relationship that... even if he's perfect, there's always lightning and bus accidents.

Yeah. I guess. I am a little more skeptical of these men who want their women to be close by at all times, lest the relationship is “threatened.” When I was young and inexperienced, I spent a while trying to placate a boyfriend who wanted me to be making all the sacrifices so he would be comfortable, which ended up with me driving a lot during med school to visit him. It sucked and he broke up with me anyway because I was too “busy.”

In contrast, my next boyfriend spent 2 entire years living apart from me (different states) while I pursued career needs and he worked elsewhere. It bothered him, but he said, you do what you need for work, and what you can for me, and I’ll be here when you’re done. Needless to say, we are married now.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Durty-Trixxx]

Your situation really boils down to one question: What's more important to you --- your possible career as a physician or your relationship?

If you value a doctoring career over your boyfriend --- then do everything you can to get resinstated at your Caribbean school or a U.S. school. Perhaps even pursue legal means, if necessary and if you have the resources. If you are lucky to get accepted at a med school 3000 miles away, then you and your bf will just have to find a way to deal with it.

If you value your relationship more, then stand by your man and support him for the rest of his matriculation, emotionally and financially. If he secures a residency position stateside, then that will be a good time to start exploring other career options like PA, nursing school, etc. close to his residency program.

There are no guarantees in life, as you know --- relationships and medical careers are not given to anyone by divine right, so think carefully with heart and mind and that's really all you can ask of yourself, right ??

 

[Kgizzle]

To be fair, to plan to not to even live on the same landmass for up to 2 years or more long distance, is a big deal.

It doesn't mean this isn't a good relationship if it's not ready for that now.

However you need to be careful how much you compromise future career for a relationship that... even if he's perfect, there's always lightning and bus accidents.

Love how you always look at the bright side of things...

 

[Weirdy]

Do you have any insight on Optometry or Podiatry as they pertain to my situation?
Would either invite less or more stress?
Is the difference negligible?

Considered both. Currently in podiatry. Sat in on a few optometry school courses.

You will not survive the curriculum.

Please strongly consider your Plan B.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

Do you have any insight on Optometry or Podiatry as they pertain to my situation?
Would either invite less or more stress?
Is the difference negligible?

i

I quit the medical field a while ago, I was a former pod. I was pretty unhappy with my program and tried to transfer. Itll be hard to get in, even though my stats were way above pod averages I was not allowed to transfer.
Let me know if youre interested in some external medical career options.

 

[Mass Effect]

Dismissing a medical student is a process, and it's fairly unusual for a student in trouble not to be given a chance to repeat the year. I am guessing the OP was offered a pathway to redemption and she decided not to take it.

Actually, when I was dismissed, I wasn't given the option to repeat the year. I went before the dismissal committee and won and that was the only way I was reinstated. There were two others who went before the committee and they didn't get to repeat the year either. We were all dismissed in December of first year of med school.

 

[W19]

Actually, when I was dismissed, I wasn't given the option to repeat the year. I went before the dismissal committee and won and that was the only way I was reinstated. There were two others who went before the committee and they didn't get to repeat the year either. We were all dismissed in December of first year of med school.

Was that for academic reason(s)? I don't think my school would dismiss someone in December of 1st year even if that person fails all the blocks

 

[Mass Effect]

Was that for academic reason(s)? I don't think my school would dismiss someone in December of 1st year even if that person fails all the blocks

Yup. I failed 3 classes. Started school in August. Dismissed in December.

 

[W19]

Yup. I failed 3 classes. Started school in August. Dismissed in December.

The US train physician (MD/DO) to be both physicians and scientists. Our basic science curriculum goes overboard IMO. That makes it difficult for people who could have been great doc to make thru the first 2-year of med school.

 

[WingedOx]

Actually, when I was dismissed, I wasn't given the option to repeat the year. I went before the dismissal committee and won and that was the only way I was reinstated. There were two others who went before the committee and they didn't get to repeat the year either. We were all dismissed in December of first year of med school.

One would assume that probation would have been triggered after the first fail though? That's how it was at my school and seems to be SOP per the handbooks of most places.

 

[GypsyHummus]

After you get out of OD school, the job will likely not be as stressful as being an MD/DO/DPM. You need to evaluate why you failed however. The OD curriculum is not as hard as MD/DO/DPM, but you will have standardized tests. There is saturation in the field, so that is stressful, but I have never met a stressed OD practicing who had a full time job (n=5).

The Podiatry route is the closest thing you will ever be to an MD/DO in the states, but it is not without its set of challenges. First off is trying to get into a Pod school with your situation. What were your GPA and MCAT scores? Top tier pod schools are likely out of the question, but even if you could convince a low tier DPM program to give you a second chance at becoming a physician, the Podiatry curriculum is the same as DO schools, some even take the first two years together with the DOs. The boards are a bit easier to pass than STEP, and are pass fail, but for the next 7 years (4 years of Pod school, 3 year surgical residency) its a lot of stress. Now, after residency, you could just set up shop doing palliative care and no surgery (much less stress), but you have to be surgically trained for those three years of residency, and surgery to my understanding is very stressful. Digging into someone's ankle isnt a joke, and if you mess up that person could lose a limb or even their life.

My question is, why would you go to the Caribbean after failing out of US MD school?

Do you have any insight on Optometry or Podiatry as they pertain to my situation?
Would either invite less or more stress?
Is the difference negligible?

 

[GypsyHummus]

The sad part is there will prolly be a Pod school that will accept her if she applied.

Considered both. Currently in podiatry. Sat in on a few optometry school courses.

You will not survive the curriculum.

Please strongly consider your Plan B.

 

[Med Ed]

Actually, when I was dismissed, I wasn't given the option to repeat the year. I went before the dismissal committee and won and that was the only way I was reinstated. There were two others who went before the committee and they didn't get to repeat the year either. We were all dismissed in December of first year of med school.

Was this from a US allopathic school?

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

The sad part is there will prolly be a Pod school that will accept her if she applied.

I have to disagree. When I quit podiatry my MCAT had gone up. (I retook the mcat in the summer before podiatry school, 510+).
I was accepted into every podiatry school I applied to initially. When I tried to transfer I was rejected. What had changed in my application? An increased MCAT score and a decent podiatry GPA for first semester lol.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

Was this from a US allopathic school?

I can't imagine it would be. They mentioned a 'cohort' which to my knowledge US MD schools don't use, the classes aren't separated like that.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Did you try to transfer to the top schools like AZPOD or DMU? Yeah, those are more selective so they prolly said no. But places like Kent are hurting for students.

I have to disagree. When I quit podiatry my MCAT had gone up. (I retook the mcat in the summer before podiatry school, 510+).
I was accepted into every podiatry school I applied to initially. When I tried to transfer I was rejected. What had changed in my application? An increased MCAT score and a decent podiatry GPA for first semester lol.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

Did you try to transfer to the top schools like AZPOD or DMU? Yeah, those are more selective so they prolly said no. But places like Kent are hurting for students.

Not the second time. I got into them the first time. I tried NYPOD, Samuel Merrit, and western. Western was the biggest disappointment. Dr troung wrote back, Ill be super excited to have you in our program next year when I wrote a thank you letter, and got flat rejected. Kinda like she intentionally tried to backstab, anyway ill try not to divert from the topic too much.
Kent is hurting for students but they have a terrible program.

 

[Weirdy]

Yup. I failed 3 classes. Started school in August. Dismissed in December.

For optometry, UHCO specifically has the same policy.

Podiatry schools have minimum semester GPA requirements or you will be dismissed/put on probation.

If you are thinking podiatry or optometry is going to treat you any different in terms of academic policy- it will not.

 

[GypsyHummus]

For OP, beggers cant be choosers.

Kent is hurting for students but they have a terrible program.

 

[IDontHaveAnyFeet]

For OP, beggers cant be choosers.

I agree but does OP have to become a doctor?
It sounds like shes afraid of just losing a relationship.
This really should not be an issue, heck no one even knows if her s/o will match from the Caribbean program.
She could do nursing - and specialize, do PA school, or something totally different and still make good money, and have lots of job opportunities

One reason I left podiatry is because of limited career opportunities, seems like OP wants flexibility to be with her s/o. If you look at given # of positions for podiatry students at any given time you cant really pick and chose your city like you can with internal medicine or family medicine (1000's of jobs)
and then I also have to reiterate my podiatry forum post, is podiatry worth it when you spend the same amount of tuition as a medical student, 4 years + 3 years of residency and we still have podiatrists barely passing 100 k starting.

 

[Mass Effect]

One would assume that probation would have been triggered after the first fail though? That's how it was at my school and seems to be SOP per the handbooks of most places.

Actually no. What happened after the first is that I remediated the final, passed it, and went on. Nothing about probation. That was in October (possibly late September?). In November, we had our second block and I failed two finals, which was game over. Was called into Dean's office first week of December and informed of the dismissal along with instructions on how appeals work. That was followed by the formal letter explaining all of it to me in writing.

Was this from a US allopathic school?

US Osteopathic at one of the older schools. Non-profit, not a diploma mill, and actually well-regarded on SDN/in the DO world.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Nothing is quite like the job market for MD/DOs, even other healthcare professions. To be in such demand is unheard of for other jobs, with maybe the exception of IT/security, but that can be outsourced easily in the age of computers. When you look at the healthcare field in aggregate, my personal belief is that the DPM degree (and the DDS degree) is the best alternative to people who couldnt get into medical school. What other alternative is there? Pharmacy? One doesnt have to go far to see the Pharmacy forums are teeming with self loathing pharmacists who complain the only jobs open are in retail, and that the field is super saturated. Optometry? Saturated unless you can get a lease with Costco, and who wants to work at Walmart as a professional?

DPT? They never break the 100K mark.

PA or NP? Easily replaceable, and schools are pumping out grads exponentially.

The only thing I can think of that would be better than Pod or Dental for those who couldnt get into MD/DO school is Nurse Anesthesia, as the programs are limited and the service is needed.

There are a lot of pods making really good money out of residency if they land a hospital or ortho gig, on the order of 200-250K+. Nobody else can legally do foot and ankle surgery, save Ortho F&A. There are still pods that get scammed by pods in private practice, but less students are taking those offers of 70K/year plus production. Look at the offers in the podiatry section of the forums, you have pods making 250K+ and finding jobs.

Edit: To answer your question of if Podiatry is worth it, I would view any profesional school debt to income ratio of 1:3 to be worth it. For example, If I pull in 100K/year as a pod after taxes and expenses (insurance and the like), and I went into 300K in debt to do so, that would be fine. Live off of 30K and pay the rest back in 5 years. Its when you get to dental school level debt to income ratio, when you are pulling in 100K but have 500K in debt where the mathematics dont add up.

So, if you go into 500K in debt for MD school, but make 500K/year as an Ortho person, that is worth it.

I agree but does OP have to become a doctor?
It sounds like shes afraid of just losing a relationship.
This really should not be an issue, heck no one even knows if her s/o will match from the Caribbean program.
She could do nursing - and specialize, do PA school, or something totally different and still make good money, and have lots of job opportunities

One reason I left podiatry is because of limited career opportunities, seems like OP wants flexibility to be with her s/o. If you look at given # of positions for podiatry students at any given time you cant really pick and chose your city like you can with internal medicine or family medicine (1000's of jobs)
and then I also have to reiterate my podiatry forum post, is podiatry worth it when you spend the same amount of tuition as a medical student, 4 years + 3 years of residency and we still have podiatrists barely passing 100 k starting.

 

[Goro]

Actually, when I was dismissed, I wasn't given the option to repeat the year. I went before the dismissal committee and won and that was the only way I was reinstated. There were two others who went before the committee and they didn't get to repeat the year either. We were all dismissed in December of first year of med school.

Not all med schools allow for a repeated year. At my school, three course failures and you're gone. Fail one after after taking an academic LOA, you're gone.

Non-academic dismissals are more serious and people sometimes don't get the chance to repeat after, say, cheating or threatening people.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Have there been people at your school who have failed 3X, but successfully appealed to the dean to get a spot back?

Seems like some schools are more lenient than others.

Not all med schools allow for a repeated year. At my school, three course failures and you're gone. Fail one after after taking an academic LOA, you're gone.

Non-academic dismissals are more serious and people sometimes don't get the chance to repeat after, say, cheating or threatening people.

 

[Med Ed]

US Osteopathic

There's the difference.

 

[ncide]

Actually, when I was dismissed, I wasn't given the option to repeat the year. I went before the dismissal committee and won and that was the only way I was reinstated. There were two others who went before the committee and they didn't get to repeat the year either. We were all dismissed in December of first year of med school.

What are your plans now?