Diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in Rad Onc

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Diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in Rad Onc
Do People really care about this or is it just a way for academics to propel their career in radiation Oncology

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It’s like anything else in the world.

Some people care.
Some people capitalize on other people caring.


See any political issue
 
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Diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in Rad Onc
Do People really care about this or is it just a way for academics to propel their career in radiation Oncology
Right now it's a way to entrap unsuspecting medical students into a specialty looking to match warm bodies with GME/Medicare/hospital funding to help run clinics at academic centers.

The rise in the interest in dei has mirrored the recent decline in interest in radiation oncology from prospective students. Many of us do not think that is just a coincidence
 
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Diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI) in Rad Onc
Do People really care about this or is it just a way for academics to propel their career in radiation Oncology
Much of it is careerism or virtue signalling. Saw this tweet 30 seconds ago where Dr. Thomas is being used as a prop.

 
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Much of it is careerism or virtue signalling. Saw this tweet 30 seconds ago where Dr. Thomas is being used as a prop.


CRT is almost certainly a prop. As soon as CRT says anything that disagrees with the group, he will get ousted, just like others who seem to have been recently.

 
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Right now it's a way to entrap unsuspecting medical students into a specialty looking to match warm bodies with GME/Medicare/hospital funding to help run clinics at academic centers.

The rise in the interest in dei has mirrored the recent decline in interest in radiation oncology from prospective students. Many of us do not think that is just a coincidence
I don’t think it is a conscious effort to create under/unemployment among black doctors. It’s more about cynically bandwagging on a trendy issue for self promotion.
 
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I don’t think it is a conscious effort to create under/unemployment among black doctors. It’s more about cynically bandwagging on a trendy issue for self promotion.
They aren't trying to create UE among them, they just don't care if that's what happens to them afterwards as long as they can keep filling their residencies
 
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They aren't trying to create ue among them, they just don't care if that's what happens to them as long as they can fill their residencies
From a historical perspective, this call to exploit cheap labor is not a good look.
 
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For our department there are two things. First, there is signifcant pressure from the hospital as well as ACGME for diversity. The easiest way to do this is to be fake about it. Which is exactly what we are doing. Second, we can no longer fill our spots with well qualified MD/PhDs from US MD schools (regardless of race). Our rank list is mostly people who see radiation oncology as a means to live in America (regardless of race); our leadership sees them as accessible labor (as stated above)
 
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It’s more about cynically bandwagging on a trendy issue for self promotion.

Not just self promotion. When I went up for actual promotion, one of the my external letter writes said that while they’d be happy to write a letter, would only do it if I sent them my statement on DEI. No joke.
 
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I wrote a DEI statement as a requirement to interview at one academic program. And an interviewer assessed my DEI cred during the interview. This is tied to federal funding so it's going to continue to be a thing that gets discussed, and some people will be promoted and others not because of it (or maybe not? maybe they were the best qualified? who knows? but having forced DEI promotions will continue to undermine itself as qualified people may be doubted).
 
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I am passionate about a few topics within DEI space but disappointed overall with DEI literature, lazy methods, dubious conclusions, and petty infighting
 
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the real ? is what happened between Dr. Winkfield and ASTRO?
 
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the real ? is what happened between Dr. Winkfield and ASTRO?

I am very curious as to the fall out there


To the OP - I think there are some who truly care about it and some that are using it as a way to progress their academic career. I believe there are much more of the latter than the former. I would guess, though, that all of them would not only say, but truly *believe* that they are the former.

I think it has some virtues, but the way it is practiced as a check-box you have to mark off or otherwise justify your existence... I just can't get on board with that. I think the 'DEI check' prior to a promotion or a new job is really sketchy.

I think all folks, men and women, black/white/asian/hispanic/all other races should be mentored equally and included as stakeholders. Unfortunately, that is frequently not seen as sufficient now, as the push has gone (not sure if this is the majority or just the vocal minority) from equality to equity.

The fact that DEI has become an entire career track when Rad Onc competitiveness has plummeted is not a good look, although I will give RO benefit of the doubt because a component of it is simply an academic medicine thing (which RO gets pummeled in because we're now more competitive at the attending level, less competitive at the resident level). I want a residency program to require incoming residents to write a DEI letter the way some academic institutions feel they can ask (at least) Rad Oncs to do.
 
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Anybody getting this training?


Just curious if its percolated to Rad Onc yet....
 
Anybody getting this training?


Just curious if its percolated to Rad Onc yet....
Desantis campaign should solicit donations outside the seminars.
 
Anybody getting this training?


Just curious if its percolated to Rad Onc yet....
State of MI making all providers do a module for this. EEK
 
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Works both ways

Psychologically it is very different. The trump administration and Jan 6 took place on tv. Having to sit through a reeducation seminar is much more personal. What kind of an idiot would think their seminars would win docs over vs piss them off.
 
Psychologically it is very different. The trump administration and Jan 6 took place on tv. Having to sit through a reeducation seminar is much more personal. What kind of an idiot would think their seminars would win docs over vs piss them off.


this is parody.

right?

comparing these things?
 

No mandate yet from my private employer. I plan to play the evidence-based card.
I mean, to be fair, there are any number of other pointless modules we need to do on an regular basis for which I doubt there are any data. I just updated my CITI modules… anyone remember when the Stark law was passed?
 
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I mean, to be fair, there are any number of other pointless modules we need to do on an regular basis for which I doubt there are any data. I just updated my CITI modules… anyone remember when the Stark law was passed?
That is fair. If remote module is an option then I will be less antagonistic.

I imagine the in-person component beginning with the "oppressors" declaring themselves guilty...I can do that at church if I choose to
 
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I mean, to be fair, there are any number of other pointless modules we need to do on an regular basis for which I doubt there are any data. I just updated my CITI modules… anyone remember when the Stark law was passed?
To be fair, when does it stop?

If to each one, we say, “well what’s one more additional pointless module?” It doesn’t have a chance to ever end.

Have to push back.
 
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To be fair, when does it stop?

If to each one, we say, “well what’s one more additional pointless module?” It doesn’t have a chance to ever end.

Have to push back.
It will never stop, so long as someone can check another box at the mere cost of our time. Modules are the solution for every major f****p at a hospital or lab. Academic integrity scandal? -just add another module. Sexual harassment? -two modules. This way the admin can say they are doing something without wasting their own time.
 
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It will never stop, so long as someone can check another box at the mere cost of our time. Modules are the solution for every major f****p at a hospital or lab. Academic integrity scandal? -just add another module. Sexual harassment? -two modules. This way the admin can say they are doing something without wasting their own time.
This person gets it. You may have a future in admin
 
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Anybody getting this training?


Just curious if its percolated to Rad Onc yet....

IAT is useless.

But as @Lamount stated eloquently no downside for admin.
 
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I'm not so surprised. Quality of papers there are on the clear trend. Both senior authors are known for grievance studies and medstudent recruitment work. It is what it is
 
Hot off the presses.... The grift must go on under the veil of DEI


This one is particularly surprising in both the quality of the "study" and the fact that its in the Red Journal (versus PRO or Advances).
Does anyone remember those days when we just used to sit around and act like good people and do nice things for people and try not be racist or prejudiced… and not post all that normal human being behavior on social media. Or try to base scholarly activity off of it.

Those were some good days.
 
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Does anyone remember those days when we just used to sit around and act like good people and do nice things for people and try not be racist or prejudiced… and not post all that normal human being behavior on social media. Or try to base scholarly activity off of it.

Those were some good days.

Haha, well to be clear I think that the effort good. In my opinion, this should have been a blog post or at best a brief report in Advances. My guess this is likely what would have happened if the authors didn't include ASTRO board members.
 
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Haha, well to be clear I think that the effort good. In my opinion, this should have been a blog post or at best a brief report in Advances. My guess this is likely what would have happened if the authors didn't include ASTRO board members.
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” Matthew 6:1-6
 
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Haha, well to be clear I think that the effort good. In my opinion, this should have been a blog post or at best a brief report in Advances. My guess this is likely what would have happened if the authors didn't include ASTRO board members.
Can we go back to the days when the Red Journal would have a series from University of Florida or Memorial Sloan Kettering and I would actually learn something? Now the trend is to pool multiple institutions or run a metaanalysis to publish clinical data in the Red Journal. But is the research any more useful or generalizable?
 
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I don't. Where was the dei concern during peak rad onc?

Tbh back then everyone was under the illusion that they had to get into rad onc on merit because it was just such a hard specialty…meanwhile all these white boomer chairs were basically laughing their asses off as med students tried to out do each other just to get a spot or an LOR.

One thing I’ve learned from DEI is that working hard is for idiots.
 
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I don't. Where was the dei concern during peak rad onc?

Based on my experience, there was none. But I still think it is important to educate the greater population of medical students about our field so that they know it exists and understand how radiation works. The need is there for any type of student. It think it's great he gave a lecture and stand by my statement that it was a good effort. If the opportunity comes up at your job to do the same, you should do it.

I do agree that ASTRO is not very genuine on the DEI stuff, sometimes they are even weird and creepy. This is one of the many reasons I dropped my membership.
 
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This is one of the many reasons I dropped my membership.
I had 700 other reasons (every year) but to each their own lol.

No way can that membership cost be justified. Oh, and not even a phone call after 20 years of membership. Just a couple automated email pleadings and then.. radio silence.
 
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“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” Matthew 6:1-6
Televangelism is alive and well. I miss good ol' Benny Hinn and Creflo Dollarz. Remix bros has some epic stuff on Youtube (down the rabbit hole you'll go).

From the OG: Maimonides’s famous “Eight Degrees of Charity
 
Tbh back then everyone was under the illusion that they had to get into rad onc on merit because it was just such a hard specialty…meanwhile all these white boomer chairs were basically laughing their asses off as med students tried to out do each other just to get a spot or an LOR.

One thing I’ve learned from DEI is that working hard is for idiots.

I do agree that ASTRO is not very genuine on the DEI stuff, sometimes they are even weird and creepy. This is one of the many reasons I dropped my membership.
That's my point. The med student and dei outreach only started after rad onc was no longer competitive and we had the most number of slots going into soap. Now it's all about outreach to many different groups including the idea that the average med student knows nothing about how awesome our field is

The grift must go on
 
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ASTRO/SCAROP during the "Golden Age" of RO applications:

Supreme Court Beer GIF


ASTRO/SCAROP after experiencing a "period of waning interest:"

cmt drunk anger GIF by Party Down South
 
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That's my point. The med student and dei outreach only started after rad onc was no longer competitive and we had the most number of slots going into soap. Now it's all about outreach to many different groups including the idea that the average med student knows nothing about how awesome our field is

The grift must go on

I think we probably disagree on their motivations but at the end of the day the efforts don’t seem genuine and that’s what matters anyway.
 
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That's my point. The med student and dei outreach only started after rad onc was no longer competitive and we had the most number of slots going into soap. Now it's all about outreach to many different groups including the idea that the average med student knows nothing about how awesome our field is

The grift must go on
Confess that grift.. Get up!

 
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